Marcus (0s):
People want to lean muscular body composition and they want to have repeatable practices. Well look at the people who've done that for decades. Really. Well, generally bodybuilders, right? They, they do it really well, right? And, and people start to say like, well, bodybuilding is not for me. 'cause I don't want to get up on stage and be in show trunks and do the whole thing and get a fake tan and take steroids. How is it that this group can just pull a couple levers and do the thing that everybody else is really desiring to do, but is so confused about how to do it, and that there's so many, like variables that they can't control, like hormones and this and that. It's like, do you think that this category of group, like individuals over here in this sport don't have the same obstacles and issues that you like?
Marcus (41s):
They do. And if you look at the meals that bodybuilders are eating, what is it? It's like simple stuff. It's a starch, it's a vegetable, it's a protein, it's a fat, it's three or four things on a plate and they call it a meal. Whereas somebody else who's like, what's the right meal to eat? And they're like looking up elaborate recipes and they're trying to like throw a bunch of ingredients into a crockpot and like, it's like you can do that, but why don't you start with just the simplest thing. A five ingredient meal is a,
Brian (1m 6s):
This week I interviewed former CrossFit athlete and founder of Functional bodybuilding, Marcus Filly. We discussed the importance of movement outside of the gym, along with Marcus's five ingredient meal, his keys to fat loss and maintaining muscle, the Importance of recovery and daily walks, the CrossFit games, and much, much more. Really enjoyed my interview with Marcus. I know you will too. Thanks so much for listening and enjoy the show. All right. Welcome to the Get Lean, Eat Clean podcast. My name is Brian Gryn and I have Marcus Fillon. Welcome to the show.
Marcus (1m 37s):
Thanks, Brian. Happy to be here.
Brian (1m 39s):
Yeah, thanks for coming on. Six time CrossFit athlete and excited to have you on. What, when did you start getting into CrossFit and maybe give the audience a little background of, of how you got into fitness and nutrition and things like that.
Marcus (1m 54s):
Sure. Yeah. My CrossFit career as a coach started in 2009. I think I found CrossFit sometime in 2007, which was sort of like an online community mainly. There were like gyms that were around the world and in local markets. Yet there were a few, but not many. And I spent about eight years as a coach and an athlete in that sport, in that world. I was a CrossFit facility owner, so I, you know, started a gym, built a community, coached in person, group classes, personal training. That was my start in the fitness industry. Prior to that, I was just a very curious, you know, athlete growing up that was always trying to understand how to better myself, like from a fitness strength, nutrition standpoint.
Marcus (2m 43s):
Studied a lot of that stuff just on my own, but also in college. Did like a, you know, biology degree at Uni, university of California, Berkeley, then went to medical school. 'cause I thought, okay, this is how I'm gonna, you know, be in the healthcare world. I kind of came from a family of doctors, but after a year med school realized, you know what, I'm, it's not really resonating with me to pursue a career of like symptom management and, and sort of sick care. And I wanted to be promoting health. And I knew that the way that I had done that my whole life was through movement, through eating, through community, through, you know, the physical development in fitness.
Marcus (3m 23s):
So I jumped into that world and that was when things kind of started in 2009 for me. I left medical school, I left Ohio State University, started coaching online coaching in person, doing the whole thing. And Now I like run an online fitness coaching business 15, 16 years later. And I've been informed by a lot over the last 20 years of, of really dedicating to, to this field.
Brian (3m 45s):
And your site's functional bodybuilding, right? Yep. And it's a membership site, is that correct?
Marcus (3m 52s):
Yeah, I mean it's, you know, we're a, we're a, we're a content coaching education brand, right? Like we sure, I've been putting out free content for 15 years on different media platforms. You know, we launched Functional Bodybuilding as a company about eight years ago. And the vast majority of people interact with us through an online training program, which takes my years of bodybuilding and my years of CrossFit and finds, you know, what I see as the best of both worlds that apply to, you know, most individuals that are out there. And so, yeah, we have like over 10,000 people doing that with us. Some of them have chosen to, you know, hire us for personal coaching.
Marcus (4m 35s):
So we have one-to-one coaching, but group and one-to-one coaching through that, that platform. Yeah, I
Brian (4m 40s):
Love that. And what would you, if someone was like, well, what's functional bodybuilding? How would you define that?
Marcus (4m 46s):
I mean, functional's definitely a term that's like loosely thrown around and it has been for a long time. Yeah. But I like to, you know, when people hear it and they resonate with it, they recognize that like, bodybuilding is a, is a, is an approach to look, a particular way to achieve an aesthetic. Even people that don't wanna step on stage and posing trunks or a bikini And, you know, be judged on their physique, recognize that like you go into the gym to build your body to look away. The vast majority of people that show up in fitness desire, you know, a an aesthetic outcome, they wanna look good. So the functional side of things is movement, moving in life.
Marcus (5m 28s):
It's like, right, you wanna move well, you wanna not be hurt, you know, right before we started recording, you were mentioning that like, you get aches and pains, nagging injuries that set you back in training. People don't wanna feel that they want to come get strong and feel good. They don't want to come, you know, in an effort to look better and walk away with a shoulder or a hip, a knee, an ankle that feels like crap. So functional bodybuilding is the look good move. Well, culture, that's what we call it. We are here 'cause we recognize that people wanna look a particular way and they also wanna feel good in their bodies. And, you know, if you, if you lean too heavily into one side or the other, I realize that like you could feel like you're missing something.
Marcus (6m 10s):
People who are heavy into CrossFit, which was, you know, functional training at its like most intense level
Brian (6m 18s):
On steroids.
Marcus (6m 19s):
On steroids, right? Yeah. They would complain of not looking a particular way of like, Hey, I feel strong, I'm fit, you know, by the numbers, but I don't look like I work out what's up with that? Interesting.
Brian (6m 32s):
I I I, it's interesting because I would, I I always watched some of the CrossFit games and you're like, wow, they are, you know, they look unbelievable, but
Marcus (6m 40s):
Sure, yeah, we look sick, but if you go into a CrossFit gym, you don't see CrossFit games athletes, right? You see people who are carrying around, you know, extra body fat who are dead lifting 350 pounds and can do 20 KIPP pull-ups and they can do burpees until they're, you know, blue in the face and then they walk out and they're like, I don't really look the way I wanna look. Right? And it's not a one-to-one, you know, equation. You don't just suddenly look great when you can do these amazing performance metrics in the gym. It's obviously, you know this, it's like, and most people do. It's, there's, there's other pieces involved. And so I, I just knew that I'm not just like throwing that out there, that was like eight years of, of running a business and having people get fit by this definition that was CrossFit.
Marcus (7m 28s):
And they're still struggling to find a balance in their body composition. And, and I, I can speak to all the reasons why that is, but yeah, you know, the, there's a big misconceptions like CrossFit games on ESPN, look at these athletes, they're, they look amazing. It's like, well, and that was a great marketing tool, But it wasn't what was happening in the gym for everybody. Yeah.
Brian (7m 51s):
Yeah. And I'm, I'm, I'm guessing that a big missing piece of that is like, you know, what and, and, and like their eating habits And what they're eating and things like that. Obviously that's a big, and you talk about it a lot on your channel.
Marcus (8m 3s):
Yeah, I mean, eating habits are, are a big part of it. The other big part is intensity in, call it anaerobic type training and just the, the misconception of like, I'm working super hard in the gym, therefore I've earned the right to eat a certain amount of food. So this is huge misconception of like, I went and did 10 minute workout, that absolutely was the hardest thing I have done in my life. But then they sit all day, so they're not really addressing, you know, total activity, energy expenditure, call it, you know, neat non-exercise activity thermogenesis people talk about. Yeah. And then the last one is that, you know, CrossFit is not a hypertrophy based, you know, training system.
Marcus (8m 47s):
So people aren't building muscle with
Brian (8m 51s):
More endurance based, would you say?
Marcus (8m 52s):
They're trying to build top end strength and they're building a lot of, of muscle endurance and capacity, but we want people to have a much bigger, you know, muscle amount of lean muscle tissue and build their metabolic like engine through hypertrophy. And that's why that works.
Brian (9m 12s):
Yeah. And as far as eating is concerned, like has your thoughts on that changed? Or like, I, I noticed you talked about, you know, you're consuming quite a bit of amount of calories, which is great. I think a lot of people are undereating and I'm sure you've seen that with athletes that a lot of people, men or women tech typically undereat a lot or not eating the right things. What, what have you learned just through your experience as far as, you know, eating and, and and how to sort of navigate that?
Marcus (9m 40s):
Yeah, I've walked, I've walked the full spectrum of food and nutrition And you know, I've explored and experimented with just about every fad that has been out there. And you know, I think the concept of people undereating is also misunderstood. People are like, oh, I undereat, you know, no one, no one who's over overweight or struggling to lose body fat is truly undereating. I mean, if they were undereating And, you know, not getting enough calories, like they would burn fat off their body in order to make up that difference. But people attempt to undereat or lower their ca calories and they do it in a way that lasts for a few days or a week, and then they choose unsustainable paths to do it.
Marcus (10m 28s):
And then they overeat for a number of days and you average things out over the course of a month. They're just sort of maintaining or slowly adding body fat over time. So that, that's like the observation that applies to the big, you know, population of people out there that are, are still struggling to figure out how to achieve their ideal body and, and physical fitness. And, you know, Now I have definitely evolved to the point where, you know, I came through years of looking at a lot of the various methods and trends that were out there with nutrition and they love to point at, you know, methods but not really talk about the principles underlying those methods.
Marcus (11m 11s):
Hey, this method is to skip breakfast, AKA intermittent fasting that works. Okay, cool, does it work for some people? Absolutely. You know, but why does it work for some people? Well, it's the same reason why paleo worked for some people. And the same reason why, you know, going keto worked for some people. And the same reason why, you know, you name the diet or you name the trend, all the principles underlying it are the same. If somebody loses body weight or body body fat specifically, they're in a calorie deficit. And each one of those methods that we talked about manufactures a calorie deficit in some way. Whether time restricting, removing food groups completely or yeah, those are generally the two main ones that people leverage.
Marcus (11m 58s):
And then the other thing that all of these diets do, if people are gonna lose body fat and maintain their muscle, which is what we all want, like that is the ideal outcome, maintain as much muscle as possible and, and get rid of excess body fat, then they prioritize protein in them. So, you know, keto generally a higher protein diet. Paleo generally a higher protein diet, you know, you name it, there's people that are oh, eat whole foods from animals And, you know, fruits And, you know, animal based. It's like, okay, that's gonna get people more protein. So the ones that work, the principle underlying it is some form of calorie restriction and some form of maintaining a high amount of protein.
Marcus (12m 40s):
So if those are the two things that actually matter, then that's what I coach. How do we get you into a sustainable path of eating in a caloric budget that fits your goals and eating enough protein to maintain, build lean tissue? And if you accomplish those two things, I don't really care what the method you choose is. I don't care if you choose vegan foods, I don't care if you choose carnivore foods. I don't care if you choose to eat breakfast or not. Like I can tell you what best practices have worked for most people sustainably because that's the last piece that's so key is, okay, do it for a long time. I'm not talking about three months to see a transformation.
Marcus (13m 22s):
I'm talking about at least 18 to 24 months where you can establish, this is how I live and this is what I do. And any approach that takes a dramatic stance on, we don't do this, we won't eat this, this is off limits. 99.9% of the time doesn't work for people. So I try and lean away from that.
Brian (13m 46s):
Yeah, I mean I've, I've changed my approach a little bit. I mean, I'm, I'm definitely more on like the balanced approach. I mean, I think some it's long-term and sustainable, you know, when you're cutting out entire macronutrients for a lot of people that doesn't last. And I know you talk about like this five ingredient meal. I thought that was an interesting way of, you might have posted a video about, about that maybe to touch on, on how you go about your, the five ingredient meal. I thought that was interesting.
Marcus (14m 14s):
Yeah, it's just like a tool for people to, you know, I think all, like all of my nutritional expertise or recommendations, like it comes from experience, But it also comes from evaluating. Like, look at people who have achieved what you are trying to achieve. People wanna lean muscular body composition and they want to have repeatable practices. Well look at the people who've done that for decades, really. Well, generally bodybuilders, right? They, they do it really well, right? And, and people start to say like, well, bodybuilding is not for me 'cause I don't want to get up on stage and be in show trunks and do the whole thing and get a fake tan and take steroids.
Marcus (14m 54s):
But let's set that stuff aside for a second and let's just look at, this is a sport where they try and build muscle and reduce body fat and they do it every time successfully. They don't miss bodybuilders that are natural, meaning they don't take performance enhancing drugs. If they have a show a hundred percent of the time, they show up in their lean. Why, how is it that this group can just pull a couple levers and do the thing that everybody else is really desiring to do, but is so confused about how to do it and that there's so many, like variables that they can't control, like hormones and this and that. It's like, do you think that this category of like individuals over here in this sport don't have the same obstacles and issues that you like they do, but what they practice is this method.
Marcus (15m 43s):
And, and, and if you look at the meals that bodybuilders are eating, what is it? It's like, it's simple stuff. It's a starch, it's a vegetable, it's a protein, it's a fat, it's, it's three or four things on a plate and they call it a meal. Whereas somebody else who's like, what's the right meal to eat? And they're like looking up elaborate recipes and they're trying to like, you know, throw a bunch of ingredients into a crockpot and like, it's like, you can do that, but why don't you start with just the simplest thing. A five ingredient meal is a protein, a starch, a veggie, a fruit, and a fat source. You don't need all five. You can have, you can double up on any one of them.
Marcus (16m 23s):
It has to have a protein, it has to have a vegetable, a fiber rich carbohydrate source on the plate, and then you can decide what to do with the rest of it. And it's like people like, oh, you mean like putting a chicken bures on a piece of, on a, on a, on a plate and an apple and then like having a couple carrots like that's, that's a meal. It's like, yeah, that's a meal. Like that's actually a really easy repeatable meal. And if you can center it around protein and you can make your meal super simple, then you'll find yourself making fewer mistakes with your nutrition. And that's why it's like, oh, I'm on the road, I don't know what to eat. I'm like, walk into a gas station, buy the high protein yogurt that's there because they have 'em single serves.
Marcus (17m 9s):
Get two of them and grab one of the, you know, not the freshest apples or bananas that's at the counter and you just got a meal. Like that's, that's, that is food and that is simple and it's, that's two ingredients or three ingredients, you know? Yeah,
Brian (17m 24s):
No, I'm all, yeah, all about keeping it simple. And I know you talked about like batch cooking as well. I think that's a great habit to get into. Like, I mean, my wife and I, we, we will, we'll pre-order like a bunch of protein every month and just have it delivered and it's in the freezer, So we just take it out the night before. Yeah. We, we know what we're gonna cook, keep it simple. We, you know, we usually have a vegetable and maybe a starch as well. And, and yeah, it's like a pretty basic stuff like you talked about. I think for people who are busy though, like meal prepping, even though it, like you said, it's bodybuilders are probably meal prepping 90% of the time, right? Yeah. Just keeping an eye on exactly what they're consuming.
Brian (18m 5s):
Well, it's easy for the average individual to do that as well.
Marcus (18m 9s):
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, I, I always tell people, I'm like, you're about five hours, maybe 10 hours of like, working on a new skill to have it mastered or at least better than 99% of people. And the, the skill in, in meal prepping is not, can I make elaborate recipes really well. The, the skill is can I fill my, my kitchen and my h my house, my pantry, my kitchen, my fridge with protein that is ready to eat in an instant, that is the number one thing that you must practice. You don't even have to be a cook for that. You can literally have a, a fridge full of non-fat Greek yogurt in like, like, we always have like four or five tubs of it in our refrigerator because in less than 60 seconds I can scoop out 40 grams of protein into a bowl and then I can reach into the freezer right below it and I can grab a bag of frozen berries and plop it on top.
Marcus (19m 7s):
And I, I literally have excellent, like a great high fiber protein snack and I didn't have to spend any time. The other things that we do is like, we keep, you know, zero prep high protein options in the pantry bags of, you know, open the pack. I've got 30 grams of seasoned tuna that I can just pour onto, you know, a piece of whole grain toast. Boom. I just got a high protein meal in no time at all, and I didn't have to be a cook. The next step of that is learn how to batch cook protein, buy four pounds of chicken breast and grill them, and then just leave them in the fridge. Like, having that available to you is amazing. If you don't wanna cook, then just go to the prepared food section of your local grocery store where they have chicken breasts that you can buy that are five times as expensive of it as it would be if you just cooked them yourself.
Marcus (19m 55s):
But hey, if, if time is a problem and skill is is the obstacle, then use your wallet to, to, you know, make the thing. But getting protein that is available in a second is, is just the number one thing. And then beyond that, it's having, you know, fresh fruit on the counter that you can grab. You got carb sources having no cook, easy vegetables, celery, cucumber, carrots, available, frozen berries, as I mentioned, you don't need any prep time for that. And they're inexpensive and they're usually really high quality. Like, these are the things that if you just learn these steps, you can stack so many nutritional wins and overcome the vast majority of barriers, obstacles, and, and missteps people take.
Brian (20m 40s):
Yeah, no, it's, it's so important and it, it might take time in the beginning to maybe get your hands around it, but like once you get going, it's, it's not bad at all. And yeah, we talked about before we got on about getting over 40 years old, so I figured we touch a little bit on that. Like, have you changed your approach? I mean, how old are you right now and, and, and have you changed your approach as far as eating, you know, recovery or building muscle when it comes to, you know, as you get up there, obviously we're still, I still think we're pretty young, but still 40 plus.
Marcus (21m 12s):
Sure, yeah. Yeah. I turned 40 last year and my approaches have certainly changed. You know, if I look at where I was a decade ago, I was competing at the CrossFit games, I was training in a model of fitness that was very, somewhat chaotic, high intensity. I was throwing new challenges at myself all the time. I was trying to lift for peak maximal strength, so one rep max strength. I was doing a lot of high intensity cardiovascular training. And if I look at where I'm at today, I lift four days a week with a per, with a focus on hypertrophy.
Marcus (21m 53s):
So, you know, kind of a, a full body or upper lower type of training split where I'm trying to hit the movements that are gonna be, give me the biggest bang for my buck. I still do some isolation work and I still focus on, you know, training. I, I, I focus more now on training my resistance training with a full range of motion to like optimize like joint health stability, mobility. And I've removed the vast majority of high intensity cardio from my training. I walk a lot as my primary activity. I track my steps, which I didn't do a decade ago, and I do one day a week of moderate intensity aerobic work because I still care about having, you know, some capacity And, you know, keeping up my VO two max, but it's certainly not optimized like it was a decade ago.
Marcus (22m 47s):
And those are the activities, and that is the training that I can recover the best from. I can literally walk into the gym, hit my training session, leave, and not really think about like, what do I have to do to like recover this day? You know? And 'cause I don't have the time nor the desire to spend an additional hour of my day mobilizing and foam rolling and, and doing all the things like I want go and crush my business. I want to go and be with my family. I want to just, you know, and, and with the reduction in high intensity stuff that I'm doing, it's easier for me to sleep better and have less aches and pains and stay more consistent with my diet.
Marcus (23m 28s):
It's, it's like when I was, a decade ago when I was pushing myself so hard, it was just like, when it came to food, it was just like, I just want to eat whatever's in sight because I'm, I'm literally pushing myself to the max and I don't have a time, I don't have the time and place for that anymore. Plus I want to be really mindful of like, you know, my body composition. I wanna be able to eat within the, you know, framework that I know produces results. And, you know, when I train this way, it makes a huge difference.
Brian (23m 59s):
Yeah, yeah. Your, your training protocol actually sounds a little bit like mine as well. Like I was never a CrossFit games guy back in the day, but definitely have changed my approach as far as working out. And I, I agree. I think it's more about just like maintaining muscle as you get older, avoiding sarcopenia, which a lot of people tend to fall into. And, and then just Sure. Being, we're being just aware of like recovery and not being afraid to actually take a day off. I mean, you talked about four days a week. I think that's a good, at least for me, that's where I'm at right now, but for years I did three days a week and got results that way, I think. Oh yeah, sometimes. Yeah. I mean, people get into fitness and they think they have to be there six days a week and Yeah.
Brian (24m 42s):
A lot of, yeah. Especially as the old,
Marcus (24m 44s):
Yeah. That, that's probably, that's probably the, the biggest change in the recent couple years is that, you know, two years ago I was still training five days a week and moving down to four has been, I've actually seen, you know, my, my anecdotal experie is that better training results, much higher intensity when I do lift, so I get much more value out of four sessions than I was getting out of five. Yeah. And yeah, it just, it like, like you said, it's at this stage it's like how much muscle can you build or maintain the, the thing, the lever that's gonna move that is the, is how much intensity or how much effort you can bring into each training session.
Marcus (25m 26s):
If you try and do five days a week or six days a week, you, you know, you certainly cannot push the intensity that you could on a three or four day a week plan. And that's why I'm like biasing that more for my clients and they're, you know, 35 plus, 40 plus aging past those numbers. It's like, don't waste your time trying to go do the thing that maybe worked when you were 20, but really has been popularized by a fitness culture that is using performance enhancing drugs. It's like, yeah, the bodybuilding splits that are five or six days a week, it's like they work for people who are either really young, super resilient or taking, you know, drugs to support it.
Brian (26m 13s):
Well, and I agree in the sense that like when you give your body that rest, you can, you can your, your sessions feel better and like you feel more refreshed going in like, I've tried five days and again Yeah, like, just, just like what you said, it just seemed like that fifth day was just pushing it too much. Yeah. And, and when you scale back sometimes is when you actually get bigger gains. Yeah. So less is more sometimes, you know.
Marcus (26m 35s):
Well, and the oth the, the other thing that's important here is that taking rest from the gym and training doesn't mean you're taking rest from being active. And most people's like health and wellness and body composition is going to be a direct reflection of how active they are, how much they move in a given day, not how many days they train. Right. Training and going into the gym has the singular purpose of trying to build strength and muscle, not burn calories. So yeah, people are like, I want to train many days a week 'cause I need to burn more calories. It's like, yeah, well your best lever to pull for burning calories is just to go and move more outside of the gym, not in the gym. Make sure that when you show up to the gym, it is totally 100% focused on how do I need to show up to build strength and muscle?
Marcus (27m 22s):
And you need to show up fresh, you need to show up focused, you need to show up with less distractions, you need to show up with a good training plan, and you need to show up with a mentality of, I am going to get in here and train like a savage. I don't care if you're 50, 60, 70 for wherever you're at in life, you need to go into the gym and train with the intent to try and build strength and muscle. So it's why I like to lean away from talking about like maintenance and training for longevity because sadly those two terms get people to come into the gym and hold back and they don't push. They're like, well, I'm just training for maintenance so I don't need to push. It's like, actually, it doesn't matter whether you're maintaining or trying to grow, you need to train hard, otherwise, if you don't give yourself a stimulus, your body will lose muscle.
Marcus (28m 8s):
And I, I, I saw that happen specifically in my thirties. I was, I was training with the intent to win points in the CrossFit games, which brought me into the gym with this mentality of I need to train like an absolute beast. Then I retired and I was like, ah, you know what? I'm just, I don't need to do it. I don't need to focus that hard. I don't need to push myself that hard. I just need to like maintain. And I'm like, look, I can maintain, I still have muscle mass 'cause I built it in my twenties and my early thirties. I can kind of just like focus on movement and having fun and just EATCLEAN and look at, I'm getting lean.
Marcus (28m 48s):
And then like three or four years goes by of just like not pushing myself in the gym or, or having the right mentality. And I'd lost like 10, 12 pounds of muscle. I was like, wait a minute. That's not, that's not what I want. Like, and so 14 months ago I was like, no, I'm gonna make this shift. I'm gonna come back to the gym, I'm gonna focus on training. Like I am trying to build muscle and I'm gonna eat, like I'm trying to build muscle and I'm gonna get focused on that and I'm gonna bring more intensity. And 14 months later I have gained back 14 pounds and easily 10 to 10 of those have been the muscle tissue that I lost. And I'm like, look, I, I made a, I made a fundamental mistake in thinking that because I wasn't trying to, I wasn't in my twenties trying to win championships anymore that I could just phone it in in the gym.
Marcus (29m 37s):
And that's just not true. And it, and it, and it can't be true If you want to truly have longevity, you have to train with purpose. You have to train and push yourself hard for the rest of time. It's never gonna get easier. And if it starts to get easier, you're probably on the path to, you know, losing muscle tissue and not being your best self.
Brian (29m 57s):
Yeah. And you also talked about walking, it's like walking is, I think it's like, I, I talk about it all the time. It's like the best health hack out there, the easiest most underlooked thing and people, you know, people just don't do it enough.
Marcus (30m 11s):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean the 10,000 steps a day target that, you know, gets talked about a lot. Yeah. Whether, you know, the, I'm sure you've probably covered the history of that on this podcast, but it's like, you know, 10,000 steps a day was a marketing ploy by, I think it was a Japanese based like pedometer company that was just trying to get more people to buy their pedometer. But you know, you just see it time after time after time when you look at the evidence of people's health outcomes that walk that much, there's just so profoundly better than people that walk 6,000 steps or less. And it's like, okay, well what can you do to just start inching that number further and further and further and f And sometimes it's just, it's a matter of like, well stop going and doing like six days a week of like crazy cardio at boot camps and just lift three days a week hard and walk the rest of the time.
Marcus (31m 4s):
And people are like, oh, like I started to finally lose body fat when I stopped doing hard cardio. Yeah,
Brian (31m 11s):
That's a great point. When we've talked about it, what are your, and obviously coming from a CrossFit background, like there is this sort of epidemic of chronic cardio out there. What, what are your thoughts around that? I mean, it's probably a time and a, I mean, I wouldn't say there's a time and a place, but obviously maybe someone that's younger is able to push a little bit more. But, but what are sort of the downfalls of, of chronic cardio?
Marcus (31m 33s):
I mean, I think the, the, the, the downfall is that people are just stuck in the wrong in the mentality of like, this is the thing that moves the needle. It's not the thing that moves the needle. Can cardio move the needle on your body weight and your body composition? Absolutely it can. But if you have to prioritize what to learn first, I always say learn how to lift weights and build muscle. Learn how to track your calories and protein and learn how to increase your daily activity through walking and steps master those first. 'cause what most people will find is that when they master those, or they at least develop a skill level that is like a nine outta 10 in those three categories, they get the body and the fitness and the health that they want.
Marcus (32m 18s):
And it feels easier than going and killing themselves on cardio. Cardio can always be in your back pocket if you want to add it in, but like, learn that first. And once you learn that you may find out that you're like, oh, I don't even like cardio. 'cause people say like, oh, I love, I love cardio. It's like, do you love cardio or is it the thing that you just think you need to do to get the body that you want? You've, you've taught yourself that that's what you, you know, what you need to do. But yeah, endless cardio is not building muscle. It's oftentimes for the amount of caloric burn that you get from it, right? So you go do like a 40 minute heart, like people go do like an hour of cardio, but they're in a bootcamp class and they're really only moving for 30 minutes.
Marcus (33m 0s):
So they get 30 minutes of cardio in, they feel super accomplished, like they just did a lot, but the actual like total caloric expenditure of that is relatively low. And then they think that they've checked the box for the day and they go and sit the rest of the day. So their activity level on a, on the whole is relatively low. They are not working on building muscle because the 20 pound dumbbells that you're lifting in your bootcamp class are not building muscle or real strength. It's just like, it's just like a tool to like make the cardio harder. It's like, you know, weighted cardio, right? And it's, and and, and then of course if they're not focusing on the nutrition aspect of it, then it's like you got a, a triple whammy there and you're gonna be on this cardio, you know, cardio loop for the next decade and being like, dude, I I I just gained a bunch of weight in the last 10 years.
Marcus (33m 50s):
What happened? Yeah,
Brian (33m 51s):
No, those are all great points. And I have a question around like CrossFit, has it changed a lot since when you were doing it? Like with the CrossFit games and stuff? Like I don't follow it much anymore. I know some of the old names like Rich Fron, right? Like yeah. Is it, has it changed much or I don't know, just your thoughts around that and like, can people make a living doing that
Marcus (34m 12s):
Two, yeah, so two questions. Like the landscape of CrossFit has changed dramatically since when I sold my gym in 2016 and I competed for the last time. And that's, that's in all aspects like the, the ownership and the actual like brand executives, the people that run that business. 'cause it's a private business. It's not just a method. It's like, you know, a trademark name and whole deal deal. Yeah. That's had like a almost a complete 100% turnover of like who's in charge, the global CrossFit market and the number of like gyms and affiliates I think has decreased. Certainly domestically, it's, it's not as popular as a fitness, you know, method and place where people are showing up to gyms.
Marcus (34m 55s):
I think overseas it's still thriving and that's just because that, that audience picked it up about a decade after they picked it up here. So it's like, right, they're following a similar timeline and, And you know, course of churn of like, this is popular, it's really thriving And now it's gonna kind of fall off the sport of, of CrossFit is not as robust as it was. You know, you can, I've looked at people that have evaluated the, you know, just, just simply like looking at Google search, you know, when Google search trends like 2016, 17, you know, searching for CrossFit games and Google was like at its peak and then it's slowly, you know, decreased.
Marcus (35m 39s):
Even the athletes, like the, the best professional athletes in the sport are starting to look for other avenues to compete where they can make maybe a better return on their time investment in terms of money and finances, looking for things like high rocks that they can get involved in. There's other professional fitness leagues that are getting started that have maybe a better outcome in terms of financial success. It is very difficult. It was even difficult back in 2016. It's probably more difficult now to earn a very good living as a CrossFit athlete or as a fitness athlete. Sure. You know, you have to leverage a lot of different things.
Marcus (36m 20s):
You have to, first you have to train, you know, full time. Right. And then on top of that, most of those, you know, athletes who are trying to make a living have to work brand deals and sponsorship deals, which are not super lucrative unless you're like the best of the best of the best prize money is not great. They even I believe this year, are reducing the prize purse for the CrossFit games because they had low registration for the worldwide, you know, online participation open that is part of the season. Yeah. It's just, it's tough. And, you know, the people that have done well in the sport who have created like a brand around their name and around their success and then like that are doing well financially are ones that have built businesses on the back of their success.
Marcus (37m 7s):
Rich Froning has a, you know, he won a decent amount in prize money, but then he signed, you know, legacy deals with various, you know, other brands where he gets good money, he runs a very successful gym and online, you know, sort of training platform. He's diversified into, you know, owning a Buffalo ranch where he makes, you know, you know, Buffalo meat sticks and he's got a coffee brand and it's like, you know, the Matt Fraser who came after him was like sort of the Froning part two where he won a bunch of championships. He's got a very successful online training, you know, community and platform where he sells coaching and sells training programs.
Marcus (37m 50s):
So it's, that's the path that that successful athletes have taken to be financially, you know, successful as well in business. But yeah, it's, it's not, I mean it's, it's a passion it sport for young athletes who are, you know, just dedicated to their, to the thing that they've found a love for. It's not you, you're not chasing, you know, six figure contracts And, you know, there's zero people that have made, you know, seven figures as athletes, maybe a couple like the, the champions that won many, many years in a row. Yeah.
Brian (38m 28s):
Yeah. I was just curious about that. Let's, we'll just finish up with a few more questions. Yeah. What, what would, what advice, and you've probably given it already, but we always talk about this on the, on the podcast. Like, if someone's trying to get their body back to what it once was, what one tip would you give that individual?
Marcus (38m 47s):
I mean, it's gonna be one of those three pillars that I talked about. You know, it's, I probably start them off by just saying like, you know, get, get a, get a wearable that tracks your steps and make sure every single day you're moving, you know, what do
Brian (39m 1s):
You use to track steps? I'm curious, what are you using?
Marcus (39m 4s):
Just, just a watch,
Brian (39m 4s):
Just a Oh, okay.
Marcus (39m 5s):
Yeah. I got an Amazon watch. I like wearables because people are like, oh, I track steps on my phone. I'm like, well, you, you have your phone on every single moment of the day, you know,
Brian (39m 15s):
That's the thing. I, I walk, go, I, and I don't track my steps, but I like to start, and I don't want to have my phone on me all the time, but maybe I'll get just like a, you could probably just get a cheap watch or, you know, you can get
Marcus (39m 27s):
Like a $40 Fitbit that tracks steps, you know? Okay. You can, I even my business partner, she just, she doesn't like to have watches on, so she bought like a $10 pedometer on Amazon and she just stuffs it like in her bra or like in her on her hip, you know, in her, in her pants. Yeah.
Brian (39m 43s):
No, I'm, I'm gonna start doing that 'cause I, I walk like three days, three times a day with my dogs and I was like, I wonder how many steps I'm actually get. I just gotta do it at least for a week. Yeah,
Marcus (39m 52s):
Yeah, yeah. You know, get a baseline. Yeah. That's what people need to do. It's like, don't go out and just start telling yourself, I'm gonna get 12,000 steps a day. It's like, get a baseline. If you're like, you know, around 5,000 steps a day, you know, then you've got, got, you got a lot of room to improve, but try to take it to seven, then take it to nine, then try and get to 10 or 11. Right. And if you track it for a day and you're under 3000 steps, like you're in a, you're in a, you're in a tough spot. You are, you are definitely, you are, you categorize as a sedentary person, even if you go to the gym. So you're now a sedentary and you can go and calculate for yourself on, you know, basic online calorie, Cal, cal calculators.
Marcus (40m 36s):
You know, if you're a sedentary person, it doesn't matter how much you train that under 3000 steps a day is gonna put you at the lowest, lowest activity, you know, class in there, which means that like your, your requirement for like, you know, calories is really low. And, and then if on top of that they go and track their nutrition for two weeks and see, oh, I'm eating 3,200 calories a day, but I walk less than 3000 steps and 3,200 calories a day. If you're not really mindful about your food is just so easy to eat. It's like, you know, if you eat out once, you might be having a 1400 calorie meal, plus you had some, you know, it's like you can just stack calories in today's world so fast if you're not mindful of it.
Marcus (41m 20s):
And so those two things right there, it's like, well, if we can just change, you know, bring some awareness to your diet, raise your step count, like you may find that everything that you want is, is solved for.
Brian (41m 32s):
Yeah. No, I love how you talk about sort of that non-exercise thermogenesis, because people don't talk about that enough. I think if they work out, that's enough, but it's, it's really just the start. Like the things that you do outside of your workout are the most important thing
Marcus (41m 48s):
For sure. Yeah. Yeah.
Brian (41m 49s):
What about routines? We'll just touch on this. Like, do you have any, you know, sleep routine, like a night routine, a morning routine, things that sort of like shape your day?
Marcus (41m 58s):
I've built some routines, but none of them like shape my day. I mean, they're all routines that are designed to solve the most important problems. Sleep is an important problem to solve. How do you get consistent restorative sleep and that's it. You just need consistent hours and the hours that you do get, you wanna make 'em as high quality as you can. So some people wanna need a sleep routine for that. Some people don't. Some people haven't even evaluated their, the, the, the consistency in the quality of their sleep, you know, morning routines, like, you know, it's like, what, what's the problem people are trying to solve? If they're trying to solve for like better body composition And, you know, being healthier, then the morning routine that you, you set up it, it better address that in some way.
Marcus (42m 47s):
It's like, well, what's your actual obstacle to having better body composition and feeling healthier? It's your food sucks. So develop a morning routine where you wake up and you prepare food for 30 minutes for your day. That's a morning routine that actually has it's high leverage. Right. You know, my morning routine might be about getting myself to have the most productive workday ahead because when I, because that's my big obstacle in, you know, life right now. Or it might be my morning routine is set up to make sure that my kids have all the things that they need for the day. You know, and my morning routine might also be my one window into like mindfulness practice because I know that once 7:00 AM rolls around and I'm on the podcast and then I'm a training and then I'm with clients and then I'm doing work stuff.
Marcus (43m 36s):
Like I'm not gonna slow down until night. Right. And then at nighttime it's kids and there's not a lot of mindfulness moments in my day, but mindfulness and being calm, like, and introspective for a few minutes every day is an important part of the puzzle. So, okay, I'll build that into my, my morning routine. But there is certainly no morning routine out there that anybody is preaching that is like going to be the best one for you. You have to create it based upon the problems that you're trying to solve. So it's like, oh, I get up, I, I journal and then I like meditate a little bit and then I jump in an ice bath and then I like, you know, drink this concoction of apple cider vinegar and blah, blah, blah.
Marcus (44m 19s):
And then, you know, then I do breath work and then, you know, then I go for a, a walk on the incline treadmill at this level, at this beat at, you know, it's like great. Like, does that working for you? I don't know if, I mean, I'm not sure it is, you're gonna probably pretend like it is, but is that even solving like your biggest obstacle that you have in front of you right now? And I find that the morning for me is a very important time because I can be hype hyperfocused on getting something done that is going to make the next 14 hours really great. Right. And so just figure out what that one thing you need to focus on is.
Brian (44m 57s):
Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Yeah. And it could change, right? Like whatever you're at in life, it's like if, if, if you haven't done resistance training and you want to start doing that, like usually if you do it first thing Yes. Excuses are gone. Love
Marcus (45m 10s):
That. Yeah.
Brian (45m 10s):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, well, this was great, Marcus. I'm, I'm glad we connected.
Marcus (45m 16s):
Same Brian. Thank you. Yeah, yeah,
Brian (45m 17s):
Yeah. I like that necklace. I've been thinking about, I don't know, what, is that a CrossFit necklace or is that this? Yeah. What is that?
Marcus (45m 24s):
This thing you're talking about?
Brian (45m 25s):
Yeah. What is that?
Marcus (45m 26s):
That is a, that's like a, an AI pendant, so it records everything I say.
Brian (45m 30s):
Oh, wow. I was like,
Marcus (45m 31s):
Doors into an app that I can, I can go back and just like, you know, oh, ask prompts and figure out what's happening.
Brian (45m 37s):
Interesting.
Marcus (45m 38s):
If I say something interesting, like on a podcast or if I, I'm having a client conversation or some discussion comes up at work, or I can always go back and just see it.
Brian (45m 48s):
Oh, interesting. Okay. First person to have that on. Yeah.
Marcus (45m 52s):
Yeah,
Brian (45m 52s):
Yeah, yeah. All right, well, functional bodybuilding, functional bodybuilding.com. I'll put a link in the show notes. Also, obviously on, in your Instagram people want to connect with you and, and see what you're up to. Awesome. Yeah, no, I appreciate you coming on and sharing all this knowledge and, and yeah, thanks so much.
Marcus (46m 10s):
Thank you. Yeah, thank you for providing a platform to come and chat and it's good to meet you and yeah, it seems like there's a lot of things that we share in common just around beliefs, belief systems and, and health and wellness.
Brian (46m 21s):
Exactly. Yeah. So well have a great rest of the day. You
Marcus (46m 25s):
Too.
Brian (46m 25s):
Thanks for listening to the Get Lean Eat Clean Podcast. I understand there are millions of other podcasts out there, and you've chosen to listen to mine and I appreciate that. Check out the show notes at Brian Gryn dot com for everything that was mentioned in this episode. Feel free to subscribe to the podcast and share it with a friend or family member who's looking to get their body back to what it once was. Thanks again, and have a great day.
