0 (1s): Coming up on the get lean, eat clean podcast, 1 (3s): But by raising my fat, I Mack and feel better. And if you actually look at the nutritional research, when we get someone's, if you take someone spat in their diet from 20% to 40%, you can almost double free testosterone or not free total testosterone. You're almost double fold, especially if it's relatively well, but you can definitely increase it. And you can see this all the time, but there isn't much of an increase after 40%, there isn't much of an increase in testosterone. So when I'm doing nutritional protocols of males and females, females definitely have more of a carb spanning metabolism. They actually generally do a little bit better on fonts. So I will method to make sure I always have a females that say 40% always. And then when it's a male, I will generally start their fat at 40% as well. But I don't generally take it above that because we don't usually generally don't need that much more than that. 1 (46s): So that entire experience was 100% a learning experience that wow, like nutrition makes an enormous difference in how I feel almost immediately. They can either just completely wreck me or I feel superhuman, but it is, it is a manipulable variable that does make a big difference. 0 (1m 4s): Hello, and welcome to the get clean, eat clean podcast. I'm Brian grin, and I'm here to give you actionable tips to get your body back to what it once was in five, 10, even 15 years ago each week. I'll give you an in-depth interview with a health expert from around the world to cut through the fluff and get you long-term sustainable results. This week I interviewed former national champion weightlifter and functional nutrition practitioner, Matt Terry. We discussed his story of battling obesity, becoming a weightlifting national champion, along with the importance of eating fat cholesterol, his role in health building muscle and losing fat. How do use fasting as a tool and is one tip to get your body back to what it once was. 0 (1m 48s): This was an awesome interview with Matt. I apologize for my voice. I think you'll get a ton of great tips and thanks so much for listening. Enjoy the interview. All right. Welcome to the get lean clean podcast. My name is Brian grin and I have Matt Tyrian with Matt Terry fitness. Welcome to the show. Thanks for coming on Matt. I actually met Matt Terry through upgraded formulas. I got a hair mineral test and Matt was the consultant that helped take a look at my levels. And we'll, we'll get into that today. I think it'll be interesting to observe some of the, some of the things that came from that test, but before we get into all of that, Matt, why don't you tell the audience maybe a little bit about your background and I know you're Olympic lifting and, and 2001 I'll brag for you 2001 national tracking I read there. 0 (2m 37s): Is that right? 1 (2m 38s): Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So my background, I was a really overweight sick child and most of my family is that's left anyway. And so it just kind of became a natural transition to try just lose weight. So that's how I got into fitness. My parents got me my first question to China. And so I was like 13 or 14 and that's actually when I was trading for my first power lifting terminal. So even though I was really overweight, I also just really genetically gifted but straight training. And that was really strong, which is for my age in general. So my parents really kind of helped me kind of, oh, I think grow that. And I found I was really good at it and I really enjoyed it and having lose weight. And so it kind of started the whole thing. And then I played football and I was just really good athlete. 1 (3m 18s): And then, so as I started off in the process of just kind of learning more and one to help people, I became a dietician and I got my money, one of my degrees in strength, training and nutrition. And then as I kind of moved through the process, as you mentioned, I was an Olympic lifter. I won several national championships in the U S I won the Olympic team trials since 2000. I lived a little bit dream center for like six years. So lifting was my job. That's all I did. And then as I got out of that, like played college football. And when I graduated, I kind of got into the health space and I've just been there for the last 22 years. And really it's kind of shifted more like when you were talking about lab evaluations is I got my functional medicine license several years ago after I was diagnosed with cancer. So it's kinda been this process of me kind of fixing myself, fixing other people working on my current clients. 1 (3m 59s): I want a personal training studio as well. So this is, this is really just this entire process. It just kind of how I live and what I work with everyday. 0 (4m 7s): Yeah. Well, and I know you mentioned it really fast is you, you got diagnosed with cancer. What kind? 1 (4m 13s): Kidney? It's renal cell carcinoma. So it's on my right kidney. 0 (4m 17s): Okay. And that's something that ha has it gotten better over the years or, 1 (4m 24s): Yeah. Yeah. So I do active with called surveillance. So I get it monitored, recount slate imaging. So I had, I found it in 2015 after my last bodybuilding show, it was the ketogenic diet experiment, which I joke about, which ruptured my appendix. And I almost lost my gallbladder, but luckily the ketogenic diet always joke saved my life. Cause that's what they found my tumors. So they wouldn't found them otherwise. So, no, it's fine. Everything. Let me just find it. I'm just going through it. And like I said, I do a lot of my own labs monitor everything and everything is good. So it's just something to deal with. 0 (4m 55s): Okay. And regarding, you know, your days of a weightlifter Olympic weightlifter, what did you learn from that? I mean, building muscle is one thing, but becoming a, a weightlifting champion is another thing. And when you're eating and breathing this stuff, I mean, what, what did you learn from that experience that sort of you've taken on past those years? 1 (5m 18s): I think, no, really the craziest thing with the whole Olympic experiences, you know, you train two to three times a day, all you do is you lift you, you lift, you eat, you sleep. And so since I didn't have really anything else to do, this is when I started dietician school. So I would track my intake every day I do everything. So I had all this free time and that's how I really got involved in exercise science and the nutritional philosophy behind it. So really what the whole lifting thing really taught me is at the time, I didn't realize how hard it was and I just didn't want how stressful world. And I didn't realize how big of a, not a big of a deal in terms of opportunity, but just like the pressure and stress that you just don't realize that when you're that young. And I kind of remember when I got out of it and I remember thinking like, and even still to this day, it's probably the hardest thing I've ever done. 1 (6m 2s): And so really everything else has been pretty easy since then. And I think the amount of work ethic and everything, it stills in you, I think easily transfers over other things. But I distinctly remember several times thinking like, and everything has been so easy compared to what I had to go through to do that. So I think it just prepared you for life to be honest, you know, kind of trial by fire, like a little ritual there and yeah, it's been awesome. 0 (6m 24s): Yeah. And, and how old were you when you competed? Like what was the age range? 1 (6m 29s): So I started no 16, actually. I started with 15 and I moved to the Victoria street in 16 when I left, when I was 22. So I lived there off and on for about six or seven years. And so I started pretty young and I retired pretty early and just, you know, injuries, like when you're training that love, you're always hurt. There's always something wrong. I've had knee surgery, I've had blown discs, I have risk problems and shoulder issues. And luckily since then, I mean, everything has been fine, but I mean, you know, when you're going through that level of that, you know, at that kind of intensity, everything's always broken. And so it just, at the time I was like 22, I was like, I'm done. I'm good. You know? And then I did something which is stupid. Then I played football. I played college football backwards. That's when I, I, I wouldn't for something to do. 1 (7m 11s): Cause I was really good in high school and I had a short window with the Olympic route. So I was like, well, I need to make sure this, all this, see this through. I can. And then once I was done there, that's when I played football, which was kind of funny because it was going backwards. So, but yeah, it was, it was definitely taught me a lot of hard work and dedication. 0 (7m 25s): Yeah. So you start playing Kaletra but when you were like 22 1 (7m 29s): When I was older, yeah, it was me. It 0 (7m 31s): Probably helped a little bit to be on the older side. 1 (7m 35s): Oh yeah. At the time, because I'm only five, six. I played like high division two and those guys were big. So I was like, I was a running back and I was like 5, 6, 9, 2 20, because when I played, but you know, I mean, we have guys are, our defensive ends were 6, 5, 3, and they're big dudes. So I mean, that was the only way I could even stay competitive in that division was, I was just, I had to be strong. I could good. So it really did help him carry into that really, really well. 0 (7m 60s): Yeah. And so then you got out of school, you played four years football, 1 (8m 5s): Two and a half because that was when they had left. 0 (8m 8s): Okay. Gotcha. And, and then you, you, did you start your own studio then from there? 1 (8m 13s): So actually I was always managing word's fitness company, so I used to manage lifetime and just some other big ones. Then after that, I just got really burnt out. Cause it really is just about money. It's not about helping people at all. So then I met my current partner and then we had opened the studio and I came in with him later and we've had our studio now for going on 12 week. 0 (8m 30s): Oh great. And so now we met through lab testing. So I thought we talked quite a bit about that. Cool. What, well, let's talk about lab testing, lab testing, and also nutrition. I wanted to ask you how, how did, how did you, you know, you were an Olympic lifter going into just the normal regular life. What have you learned from, from all your nutrition days of, of I'm sure when you were Olympic lifter, it was just, everything was so calculated. And so to now what you do today? 1 (9m 1s): Well, I think the first thing to understand about nutrition is the more you study nutrition, the more confusing it gets, but when you actually understand nutritional biochemistry versus my background is, is not producing at all. And I think the important thing to understand is people get really off on tangents, the carbs make you fat. None of it actually does. And when you actually understand that metabolism has one thing in common, when you understand human metabolism is that all through macros, their molecular structures are based on the carbon skeleton. And so several carbons are interconnected for carbon chain. And so for example, like carbohydrates are the most basic form. And so they're going to have <inaudible>, but they're still carbon bond, right? And just like protein has a carbon and a carbolic is like a bond on the right side. 1 (9m 44s): And fatty acids have a carboxyl group on the right side. So knowing that all three macronutrients have carbon chains is crucial understanding the of nutrition. And that means that the body can oxidize or burn any of the carbon chains from each one into each other. And the, basically the breakdown products or metabolites of carbohydrates, protein and fat can be transferred into each other. Okay. So this connects metabolic pathways allows the body to transform like one nutrient to another, just like basically such a story in carbs. And when you're in a fat and energy circles and then, or making glucose, carbon skeletons and amino acids. So when you actually understand this, it makes nutrition really easy. So when I'm working with clients, this is what I did my own nutritional training, and I still can be bodybuilding inside to my training or my nutritional calories based off several factors. 1 (10m 30s): I then set protein. I then set fat when I said carbohydrates last I've always done that. And it has always worked well. And then depending on what someone's goals are, you will see, this is what I actually learned in my training. I was, when you first entered that position, they will sometimes press in your head. That's that's really bad for you. So I was on a very low fat diet when I was shooting like less than 20 grams of fat a day. And if you actually look at that, you will develop so many hormonal imbalances in your fats that low. And I remember I would be on like 700 pounds of carbs a day because I tracked everything and I would just be exhausted. I'm like, how am I so tired when I'm eating so many carbohydrates? And I had an awesome exercise physiology professor who was also a natural bodybuilder, you dietary records. 1 (11m 12s): And the first day he brought it in, he was like, okay, so you need to eat some fat and you can cut your carbohydrates back. And I was like, no way, man. Fat makes you fat. He was like, I'm telling you, if you take your fat up to about 72 grams a day and cut your carbs in half, he goes, your calories will jobs. He's like, you will be fine. And I was like, oh, I don't remember doing it. And I actually did it accidentally. I didn't purposely try to raise my fat. It was funny. It was basically like at the training center, they would make food to order. And the new cook totally screwed my food up. And I asked for 10 egg whites and she made me 10 whole eggs and I had to go to school and I was like, I don't have time to eat something different. So I have to eat this. Now I remember I ate it. And I remember saying like, I remember in class, I was like, I feel really good. Like, we're really good. Like, what's going on? 1 (11m 53s): Like I remember my was just like alert and I was like excited. And I was like, I entered this through the roof. This is weird. Anyway. I was like, well, something's to this. So I kept the fat up in my diet. Like my teacher had told me to, and me and my strength was loaded. And I was like, oh, there's something is to nutrition. And it really is. And if you look at the research, if that's that low, you're gonna take your dressage. And that's what I had done myself. So really where I'm looking for is all set. Are you 0 (12m 18s): Usually that slower? Can you say that slower one more time? 1 (12m 22s): Yeah. 0 (12m 23s): You're going to take your test. 1 (12m 25s): Yeah. You're going to tank your testosterone, pink, your testosterone. And if you're a woman, you're gonna take your estrogen progesterone, not to mention the testosterone very low anyway, but I definitely learned that by raising my fat I Mack and feel better. And if you actually look at the nutritional research, when we get someone's, if you take someone spat in their diet from 20% to 40%, you can almost double free testosterone or not free total testosterone. You're almost double filled with structure if it's relatively well, but you can definitely increase it. And you can see this all the time, but there isn't much of an increase after 40%, there isn't much of an increase in testosterone. So when I'm doing nutritional protocols on males and females, females definitely have more of a carb sparing metabolism. They actually generally do a little bit better on fonts. 1 (13m 5s): So I will mess with and make sure I always have a females that say at 40% always. And then when it's a male, I will generally start their fat at 40% as well. But I don't generally take it above that because we don't usually generally don't need that much more than that. So that entire experience was 100% a learning experience that wow, like nutrition makes an enormous difference in how I feel almost immediately. It can either just completely wreck me or I feel superhuman, but it is, it is a manipulable variable that does make a big difference. So yeah, no, I, that was a huge, that was a huge drinker for me. 0 (13m 38s): Yeah. And when you talk about fat, what are the best ways individuals can get fat into their diet? 1 (13m 43s): So this is, that's a great question. So fats are really what I'm looking at, a new, a new client. I will usually order stool hair, blood, but I use, I like to do genetic panel if I can get one. So the reason why is when you start looking at two fat types, the total fat for most people, isn't really going to matter. The fat type does matter. So if you have someone like my genetics, where if you looked at my genetic report, I have every gene for obesity, diabetes, heart disease, including lower metabolic rate, lower fat metabolism, fatty, fatty liver, like my PMT gene. I have that. So I have like everything that you could do to like, you won't do well with fat and you're going to have high cholesterol and you're going to have heart disease. 1 (14m 25s): I and my mom died of a heart attack. My brother died of a heart attack. My dad has had a heart attack. So it's like heart diseases there. So when you, and when I, when I did the research and this, I found this because it's large because I have the APO gene variants. I'm an <inaudible>, which means I have a 90%. Like, would it be false if I had to stand American diet and I don't change my lifestyle, I'm not worried about it at all, because I don't have any of those issues. And that's when you're talking about genetics and remember the expression, lifestyle loads, the gun, right? Or genetics loads, the gun lifestyle pulls the trigger. So with someone has an EPO, Eugene like myself, like my wife, like a lot of clients. I see if you put that person in too much saturated fat, you will see really bad limits, really fast. 1 (15m 6s): Like mine. When I did ketogenic that went from my cholesterol is usually one 40 to one 60. I have a very low cholesterol. It went to 400 in the first three weeks. And the only reason I know that it's going to have to do a life insurance exam in the intro. I always do my labs before and after any dietary approach, I just didn't do them in the middle. Cause I wasn't planning on it. And that was when I was like, what is going on? And why am I liver enzymes going through the roof? And why is my stomach hurting all the time? And why am I super nauseous? Why is my cholesterol freaking out? You know, like I also pull, when you're looking at cholesterol, I don't just pull cholesterol panels. I pull what's called an MMR limpid profile. So that looks a particle size. You break apart the HDL LDL. You get to see how big it is. I'm pointing to this. And what I was noticing is my particle size sucks. 1 (15m 47s): And I have a lot of the small particle, which is not what you want. And I have a lot of it. So when you're looking at cholesterol where people get kind of confused, as you have large point cholesterol and they have small dense LDL cholesterol on the thing that the analogy they use for this is imagine there's a ton of snit. Well, if you have the Lords point kind of like cotton candy, it can't move through them that they can't form a clot. I can't travel. I can't hurt you. The small ones can cause it can travel through the net and they can start making clots and they can break free until you get strokes and you get heart disease. So APO E has been really careful with that. So with me, I generally use a lot more plant-based fats. Cause I, I actually, when I was vegan did very well vegan, but I don't think I must be fully vegan. I think there's definitely some long-term problems that I did it for five years. 1 (16m 28s): Definitely started develop some issues. But I think when it comes to that weight on really plant-based fats and unsaturated fats. Good. 0 (16m 36s): No, I was just going to say just the recap. So for the people listening, AP APO, APO, E gene, what percent of people have this? Do you know? 1 (16m 49s): Well, so you have, we have the gene, but then you have the illegals. So the illegals are what you get from each parent, right? So that's how you get the numbering system. So it can be like 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, like you get four for like, you're like that's all centers. And if you get three, four, like that's pretty high. And then to get to four, they're probably not that much. It'd be like one, two. They're like whatever. So you're getting an a Lele from each parent and then you have a combination. And so when you're looking at APLU, what I've actually done on this and, and the way you can hack this, which I watch I recommend is if you go to 23 and me, what you'll do is you'll pull your ancestry, natural health stat because our health reports stock. But if you pull their ancestry data, then what you do is you'll get that raw data back. And that's your genome. 1 (17m 31s): Then once you can do, as you go to Rhonda Patrick site, which is, which is found my fitness to go to found my fitness.com and then she has an option in there where you can upload your genetic report. And it links with 23andme. I think it's like $35. And then you can get all the health and nutrient reports like do you convert ALA, which is a plant-based fat to EPA and DHA. Can you do that now when people can, I actually, can't not let people can. And that's one of the reasons why when veganism they're like white flap seeds, but you'll never get EPN BJ from that. Cause you can't convert ALA to that. Most people suck at that like really badly. I'm really good at it. But you'll see on there. Do you have the OPO G do you have the PDMT gene? Like I have a gallbladder she's in it and it has a really good explanation of like, here's this gene and here's what it means. 1 (18m 13s): Now. Remember don't take some of the genetic stuff. Cause it is huge infancy right now with any kind of certainty, just be like, okay, cause you'll look at them and you look them up. I looked up one, it was like an, a study of 138 people. I was like, delete, I don't care. That's not a big enough sample that that's not relevant. So when you get into some of this genetic stuff, it's like, just remember that it's not diagnostic at all. Okay. It is presumptive. And it's just saying you have predispositions, but it doesn't mean you're guaranteed to get it. And I just liked the 23andme because from there, when you're supposed to run the site, we get really good, detailed information about your fats that you do well with like the sale. Now this person doesn't do well with a lot of saturated fat or this person will do well with more polyunsaturated fats. 1 (18m 55s): That's from whole fats oils. But you know, I mean, so it'll tell you kind of how you respond to that. And that's usually, if I can, if I can have my preference, that's how I stepped someone's entire program as a based off what the genetics say. So I can kind of cheat the diet a little bit, pull the hair in. I can see exactly what I need to do. Nutritionally blood. I can see lots of different deficiencies that can work on. And then stool, obviously with stool, I can see gut infections. I can see microbial balances. I can see, you know, does the liver pancreas and gallbladder help. So there, you can really get detailed with people. And so I, I really think, I know it's a lot of work, but people really concern that that's really how you get detailed with nutrition. It really customized to you. Cause there's just so much bad information on every single day. It's just, it's just really, 0 (19m 38s): Yeah, that is, that is true. And I've actually done 23 and me a while back. I'll have to pull that up and find this. So regarding like macros, you talk about carbs, fat and protein. And obviously you're you realize that you needed to up your, your set your, well, I shouldn't say saturated fat, but your well should, should I say saturated fat? Was that 1 (20m 2s): Yeah. Yeah, because saturated fat is important and it is important for testosterone. It's like anything. If, once you study more of the health world, you're going to see people take snippets of things and they throw that quote out there, but they read the rest of it off. Like they're like insulin is fat storage hormone, but what's a fish should finish the sentence and say only when you're a surplus, if you're not a surplus, like I have rail thin type one, diabetics who inject tons of insulin a day where they're not gaining weight. So once you understand this stuff, I get really makes a lot more sense. But yeah, it's just about information. And what I would say is I need, you definitely need saturated fat. What I usually will do if I don't know someone's genetic track, right. Is I just break it apart pretty easily, like 30, what's going to come from Polly sort of what's going to come from saturated. 1 (20m 44s): What's 30 minutes going to come from one saturate, but I don't use seed oils and I don't use general oils in general. Well that's really, and it's extra-virgin. Other than that, I don't use coconut oil. I know usually any oils in general, cause really hardly at all better. I just prefer people get their, their fats from your foods. Right? So for eating eggs, right? So you get some Coleen which everybody needs. And if you had the PDM TG and like tons of colon, cause that's, I get fatty liver. So Coleen is actually B vitamin that pulls fat out of the liver and is in the bloodstream. So that's why when people are calling deficient or more prone to Coleen efficiency, you can see higher levels of fatty liver. And when I did keto, I got fatty liver. So again, certain people will not do well on high fat diets at all. And there's ways to treat that. 1 (21m 25s): But again, if you just kind of mix your fats up between each source, I personally think that's the best way, especially if you don't know where you really fall, which at the end of the day, it's not that I can't have saturated fat as an APO E it just means I shouldn't be my predominant nutrient. I shouldn't tons of it. Like put coconut oil, like as you know, my coffee and then my cereal, like everywhere, like people do like, don't do that and you'll be fine. 0 (21m 47s): Okay. And then regarding M protein curious your thoughts regarding protein, do you try to like, depending on your client, do you try to say, okay, let's start with animal proteins. If they're open to that, obviously, and see how you are with that. Or like obviously the bioavailability and things like that of let's just say an animal protein for the most part is probably higher than most plant proteins. So what are your thoughts regarding proteins and how someone should implement? 1 (22m 15s): It's a really good question. So when you understand this concept, you'll understand, unfortunately, why veganism, isn't great and you'll actually understand why you actually don't need that much animal protein. So there's a concept called the leucine leucine threshold and every meal. So let's back up a second. When you're trying to build muscle and lose fat, you're trying to emphasize, or, or spike muscle protein synthesis. And you're trying to delay muscle protein breakdown, which is why you should never work out faster because there's nothing to buffer muscle protein breakdown. You're just gonna start losing muscle mass. And that's why you see shitty nitrogen balances will be bored out faster. So I'd never do that. I used to change fast and all the time, once I started eating my performance improved dramatically. 1 (22m 56s): So I would never drink fast again, unless I had to that day. I mean, I'm not going to skip training. Like it's more important to train that you skip it. You know what I mean? Like, so if that's the only way you can train the most important thing is that you turn it, like let's be clear on that first, but when it comes to poaching, you've got the Lieutenant threshold, but you only need about three grams of losing per meal to spike pollution threshold, but usually comes out to about 20 grams of animal protein, about four or five ounces. So the way my personal diet is set up, if you look at all the studies on protein, and if you look at muscle protein synthesis, muscle protein breakdown, and the ability to build muscle protein, to build muscle as a natural, and these are not performance answers, no substances here. These are just people who are actually training. If you look at this 0.82 grams per pound of body weight is what comes up repeatedly in research is the max ability of a natural trainee to actually absorb and use protein very well. 1 (23m 47s): So I generally set everyone's protein at point you 8.8 grams per pound of body weight, right? So for me, it's about 1 61 70. So, and then if you look at the studies on protein quality, once the lutein threshold has been hit, which is that 20 grams. If you look at all the studies on muscle protein synthesis and pestle protein quality, they, they assume that 50% of that person's to a protein is animal. The other 50%. They don't care about. It's like the mixture of all the other foods. They, so the, when people are like, well, I need two integrators of protein day, exclusively for me, there you go. You need 200 hours approaching day and at least a hundred grams, you just come from animals. So I always set it up where people like, then you see this, the women, cause they're like, I just can't get my protein at high. 1 (24m 28s): Like, cool, we're start with now. As we start as little animal protein, as you can get in, I'm a raise it and I'll make up the difference with some other proteins that you really cause the most important things with the parents. So when I'm working with a new client, I always interview them first to see where they're at and see what help they need in their nutrition journey. Like what's their knowledge, are you tracking it? Do you know what Apres are like, do you need a food list? Do you need many plan? Like where do I need to start you? And then obviously where the goal was. And then I just work on slow behavior changes every week and implementation. I can make it that person's program to get them to where go. And I always start with protein and I always start with having them first manage their total calories. And that's how you can get someone who really doesn't know a lot about nutrition to see a see progress right away. Because if I can tell the cows, they will lose weight right away. 1 (25m 9s): And if I keep their protein up high enough, they will lose fat and they will gain muscle right away. And if I just going to be consistent, we'll see progress. So I start there and then I kind of start circling back and they start pulling all the junk other diet. And I start putting it, like, it's just a slow change to get them out of the woods. Because if you, if you're like day one, you're going to stand in America and tomorrow you're eating nose to tail, you know, all that. They're like, what's like it. I don't know any of that. So you have to go very slow, but I always start with protein. I get them to their goal. First. I make sure that you need enough healthy fats. It's like, once I get enough nutrients in like, say protein, then I'll circle them. Where's their fat, what kind of fats are these coming from? Or like, let's pull this guy up. Do you like this type of fat let's swap him in? Or do you like nuts? Or do you like this? Do you like eggs? Like let's swap this. You know what I mean? So then I'll start getting in like an unofficial official. 1 (25m 53s): It's great. Just depends on what official it comes from. Cause it can be problematic. It's a crappy source. Cause it was going to oxidize and you know, kinds of DNA damage. So we'll use, I try to get the fish first and if they won't I'll supplement with fish, well, it's always protein first. It's always total calories. And then I manage it from there. 0 (26m 9s): And you mentioned total calories. That was actually on your website earlier today. And I wrote a blog I think in two years ago. So regarding that you're not a big fan of counting calories. So is this something that you just figure out right away and then sort of like, cause I'm not either I've actually just recently started to track my calories. Cause I just was curious to see how many calories I was eating. But what are your thoughts regarding that? Yeah. 1 (26m 36s): So in terms of, so why teach people two wins? Right? So I teach in tracking and non tracking, right? Most people don't like to track. Here's the extra, here's what I here's exactly what I tell people when they work. Like we need to make a deficit somehow so you can lose weight. Okay. We need to track that deficit. We're gonna know what you're eating and you're gonna have a lot more flexibility, food choices. Am I controlling the deficit? I can get you. I can, I can routinely probably map out much better how long it's going to take them to get there and be more consistent with progress. So it's gonna be faster said, if you don't want to track, that's fine. Then I'm gonna teach you to eat in a way that controls your calories, which is usually going to be a low Carver plan because that's just why that's easy, right? If I can be like, I'm familiar with protein, fruits and vegetables first, you don't have appetite for what happens to their calories. 1 (27m 21s): They plumb it. What happens. So if someone's like, Hey, tracking mechanism to do it. And like, then I need you to eat this way. Or you use a food list and these foods we're going to exclude. And the only reason when you slid them is high calories. And if you're not talking it, you're going to go way over your budget because you don't understand how to put them in yet. So I'll do one of either. And that's why I write, I try to write education content on either one of those based off how people want to go. I personally track my calories and after 25 years, I think it's incredibly easy. I think it's easiest to do, but that's also because I've done it forever. And I also know every food, 0 (27m 51s): Right? And you're probably eating the same stuff. Exactly. It's like, it's like almost like the CGMs. I I've gotten them on and off, but like I eat the same stuff. And the other thing also, the thing with CGMs continuous glucose monitors is like your, I find that I'm mixing foods. W what are your, what are your thoughts around mixing foods and how they can affect you and then eating foods like, you know, one at a time. And 1 (28m 17s): So I think that's a great question because the glycemic index is a useless measurement on any scale whatsoever, unless you're eating a food by itself. So it means that glycemic index, right, who cares nobody's rice by itself, you can still the glycaemic index of anything with protein, fiber, and fat. That's why, if you look at the licensing of hymns, peanut butter and M's are really low, right? Like if you look at it's like 90, so it's like, why is it so much lower? It has nothing to junk food. It has to do with the speed. It rises glucose. Right? So when you're looking at those pieces, I don't know the way that I really see a lot of it when it comes to this is it's super, super, super individual is really what it boils down. 1 (28m 59s): And you're probably going to feel all these things. Like I first they're going to Quito. I was like, I don't feel very good. And why am I nauseous all the time? And why don't, why does my side hurt? Like, these are things that like six weeks in understand the approach you choose is simply based off something, you feel like resonates with you and you can stick to it. And when you do, you're going to see success. And that's where people are like, this is the only guy that's ever worked for him. Like it's the only one that ever really, really that resonated with you. Or you could follow. That's why it works. So with keto, keto is one of the best diets to control appetite. If someone's like, my appetite is crazy. I'm like, I will think of it like that. You'll never be hungry. And it's like, so you just, you kind of learn how people respond, but some of these things are, are changed. 1 (29m 40s): You know what I mean? Like they're temporary. I might use like cardboard that for get super, super bad GI problems. I got to get our control really quickly would never use carnival otherwise, but I'll use it temporarily as a great elimination diet. I know generally improved and none of them fix their gut health. They can eat these other foods become problematic. And it's like, I explained to them when they're like, oh, I fixed my gut health and carnivores. And like, let's actually look, see what's happened here. So that's kind of like saying, I squat, my knee hurts. I stopped squatting. I fixed my knee. Right. And remove the stimulus. So when you do, when people are like, I'm not eating fiber anymore, fiber is bad. I'm like actually a lot of the research in fiber isn't that bad, especially long-term, especially when to start looking at appropriate production in the gut. Like computerate like, anti-cancer like actually fiber important. 1 (30m 22s): So before people just kind of throw everything out, understand sometimes things to you on an approach will not be the picture you live on. And that's something that's really important to understand because everybody's a bit different. 0 (30m 34s): Yeah. It's interesting. Because before I don't eat a lot of fruit, I've just never been, I used to eat more and I've just gotten away from it a little bit, maybe because of all the interviews I've done and, you know, fructose this. And, but, but I will say a lot of people that are anti-fraud dose say that you're much better off obviously eating an apple, then taking that apple and putting it in a smoothie and chopping it up and, and drinking it. So, but I was interested before we went on an interview. I, I ha I had an apple and I'm like, oh, I wish I had my CGM just, but like you said, I actually can feel, I can feel how foods affect me. Like that's, I think that's what in getting into my next sort of topic. I wanted to talk a little bit about fasting is, you know, I do, I've been doing fasting, I don't for a while now, but I think that's sort of helps me sort of get in tune with how foods are affecting me. 0 (31m 25s): And I'm just curious how, how with yourself and with your clients do, do implement any type of fasting. 1 (31m 31s): It's a good question. So I think first, if you look at the fascinating research, because I have studied this extensively, most of it's on rats and unless you're a rat who's lifespan is two years. I understand the rat mat eating for a week or a day is like human ID or vice versa. It's a rat night eating for it is like the human 90 per month. So remember that. Okay. So when we do those things that we don't see the benefits of human, and actually this study was just released. And I actually just posted on my Facebook page and what they did, it was on intimate fasting and they compared it as a weight loss tool. And so they said this new study, it goes to the growing evidence that fasting does not have any meaningful health or fat loss benefits, independent of calorie restriction. This is Lou at all, had 195 or 139 individuals fall with calorie restriction plan for a year with or without the eight hour eating window. 1 (32m 16s): Is there a difference in insulin sensitivity, metabolic risk factors for weight loss? So what I use, what I tell people is this fasting is just another tool to help you control your intake and it can work very well. Now, there are some obviously true benefits to longer-term fasting as a water fast. And I, and I do practice a little bit of imminent fasting myself because I get up at four every day. And if I ate at four 30, I got to calories by noon. So I don't shiny breakfast till eight or nine just to conserve my calories throughout the day. So I will, I like to do a hard cutoff at around 7:00 PM for most people. And again, remember, this is a tool. Cause if I can cut them earlier, not drinking at night, they're not sitting in front of food, include all night. 1 (32m 56s): And this is what people look at all this weight. I've lost them. Your fasting, like literally changes you've made in your behavior. That's awesome. Great job. But understanding why it works. So I think fasting in that standard is really good. And I think it depends on the person. If someone's a rule fodder like me, I can be like, all right, Brian, you go to eat from like eight to six. So like, okay. And now they won't eat from like 8 0 1. They're like, okay. And they're done. Like, that's it, but you get other people and they don't like those restrictions and it's going to close. So nutrition is very psychological, various, but I do like faster than I do, like putting in the hard stop on the window for sure. And if someone wants to do it with us, there's no problem with it, but I coached them on. All right. You know, remember hunger. 1 (33m 37s): This is, what's really important to understand about fasting and circadian rhythms, chronotype, which is really interesting. So for example, when people are like, oh, breakfast is the most important meal of the day. It is. If you eat breakfast routinely, if you don't eat breakfast, it doesn't matter at all. But if you eat breakfast all the time, you're important. This is where criminal type is really interesting. And you see research on this. If you take some of these, a breakfast, Cedar, and you stick them in an intermittent fasting program versus going to struggling horrible, cause that person's, you've seen Dexis what's that mean? It means they're hunger hormones. So leptin is a day to day and grow one's more hour, hour. And your terms of your homegrown spiking. So what actually happens is if you're always eating at eight, your hunger hormones always spike around six to seven to be like, Hey, it's time to start eating. It's time to start getting hungry. It's reminds you to eat. 1 (34m 17s): They spike at a certain time. Well, what happens is that first day you don't eat breakfast or noon, or you're eating it at eight. You're gonna be so hungry. You're probably gonna read it now. So when I use fasting, I ask someone, are you a breakfast eater or not? That's like not hate breakfast. I'm like, fasting me perfect for you. It doesn't be awesome. Like don't eat till noon. Like awesome. I don't do that anyway. I'm like, great. And I make them have a really tiny lunch and like, you'd have enormous dinner and I can, I can have such good compliance at that person. It's unbelievable. But yeah, if you stick somebody like me on a fasting program, I'll quit by the first day. So it's fascinating. It really depends on if someone's breakfast, Cedar, net and their appetite. Okay. And the approach I use on people to manage their intake is what they're struggling with. 1 (34m 58s): My diet is set up based off of my struggles. So I generally, I start at four with clients. I start at five of clients. I go to four. I usually go straight, straight from like five to noon. So I generally will have like something very small in the morning. Like, it's usually like, I actually get like those obligated farm, like meat packets is tearing open like that in my office. I need an apple, it's my breakfast. And so that usually gets me through to a lunch and I come home, then actually cook a meal. And it's usually a big vegetable stir fry, usually some fish or some kind of meat and a bunch of fruit and nuts and seeds that up stuff. And some green tea. That's usually my lunch. And then I'll take my binders, all my stuff in the afternoon. And I'll pause and I'll do my dinner is where I usually will struggle and I'll read. So I go in dinner, I've got almost 1800 calories left at my dinner because I kind of post my day and go real slow. 1 (35m 40s): And this huge surplus at night that I can't overeat. And one of my shoulders for years, I would overeat at dinner because I'd be too hungry. So now when I backload my cows and my carbohydrates based off several studies, I keep them there at dinner and you're gonna see greater compliance in your people. And the reason I bring the starches, the dinners cause increased starch, increase, serotonin people sleep better. And if you look at compliance studies, if you give people carbs at dinner, they stick to the program so much better. So if I've got someone who wants to intermittent fasting, I'm like, cool. Don't even till lunch at protein, fruits and vegetables and at dinner, we're going to have some fun and I'll make you a bigger dinner. And they're like awesome. Only twice a day. And I can get people dropping stones like that. Cause they're calorie deficit. You're huge on your sticking to the plan. It's very easy. So I think fasting is a great tool to control your intake. 1 (36m 21s): It's usually what it's beneficial for. 0 (36m 23s): Yeah. And some great points there. You know, I'm a big fan too, of picking a time to cut off. You know, let's just say Jake, you said seven o'clock. Cause a lot of times late, like you said, late night, eating or drinking just can cause issues. Right. Obviously, and then it can get into sleep and things like that. Also. I like how you mentioned to backload carbs. That's something that I've always done. Not always, actually I used to, I used to not do that. Now. I, if I have something midday, I'll have mainly protein and fats and then for dinner, I'll implement some more carbs. So I like that as far as fruit and carbs and things like that. So do you typically like what to say, you're going to have a dessert, do you just say okay. 0 (37m 7s): Fruit because fruit is pretty much like a dessert for the most part probably depends on which one, but how, how do you go about handling that? 1 (37m 15s): That's pretty much it. I don't, I don't really eat. So I coach clients is, you know, 89% of the time reading a whole non-processed foods. And that includes, like I said, like, no is either like that's just whole foods. Right? I know. I tell them depending on their goal, 10 to 20% of time, you want just keep it in your window. And it works very well. I mean, people stay really compliant. The labs are great. Like everything's stopped. So when it comes to desserts, I don't actually veer off from like clean foods. Not for any other reason other than I just don't feel good if I don't end up. I mean, if I were to like cake or a junk food, like I just don't physically feel well, I just wouldn't eat it. Right. So for me it is, it is fruit or it's like a big bowl of Keywan fruit. Like that's one of my favorite things in the world. I'll eat that a lot of times after my dinner. 1 (37m 57s): Right. And again, I might do my cutoff at seven for a few reasons. But I think if you're into the fasting research, one of the things that did give me pause about really late night eating, and this is more like when it's dark, this is from Satya panders work on time, restricted feeding is they found that in the pancreas where insulin is produced, you also have melatonin receptors. And so at night when you're eating a bunch of carbohydrates as your, you won't be making enough insulin to drive the glucose down because as no tone is produced, it lessens insulin production, actually making insulin resistance. So there there's a new phrase now, nighttime diabetes, right? You can be normal in the morning, but you could have elevated glucose. Right. So if someone needs like a huge thing of carbohydrates before bed, like really late at night and that glucose is hanging up all night. 1 (38m 43s): I mean, that's, if I went to work all night, right. And then we run the reflux issues and all kinds of other issues. So the whole point being is like, I like the, I like to more just clean, like non-processed foods. Cause I feel better. But yeah, if I was going to have dessert yeah, totally be fruit or something. I probably, I think when you're looking at, when you look at fruit toast, it's another one of those things where the conversation is finished. We're talking about, there's an enormous difference between fructose corn syrup, especially like molecularly. It's not even the same damn thing that's like saying the gas in your car is the same thing as gas in your gut. It's not saying close. So when people like 20 milligrams of fructose, like don't go by that. I'm like, okay, look at the rat studies. And what they were doing is they were giving, when exhibitions are looking at soda, when they're looking at high-fructose curbs and soda, they were getting reps 200 cans of soda there. 1 (39m 27s): So don't drink soda. Daniel probably be fine. Like it's everything is the dose is the poison. And we make people obsessive and worry about foods, restricted eating behavior and binge problems that gives people eating disorders. And when people just don't understand eat well, most of the time, if you slept well, and if you exercise and you got sun and you got fresh air and you managed your stress a lot and you manage your calories, a lot of what you eat, isn't that important. Don't don't miss anything as you can live on McDonald's but a lot of what you eat. Well, a little bit of treats here and there are not going to hurt you. We just know, but living in that state will. So we have, once we get people sleeping better, covering better and just ease their mindset and be like, I need you to enjoy your calories. 1 (40m 9s): Don't think about this food as being perfect because that's what we will do. Like I had a nutrition analysis that I always ask, how did it go? Oh, this week is terrible. All right. What was the week? Terrible? I'll look like the food girl. I was like a protein. I look at sort of calories first. They control them. I'm like, what was bad about the week I had this one cookie like, okay, so there's the one cookie. So then you have to have the, the conversation is okay, you did your workouts this week, right? Like, yeah. I said, how was Monday's workout? I was like awesome. After Monday's workout, did you hit your target body weight goal or your body fat goal on the measurement? No. Why? I'm like, well then the cookies never screwed up. Either calm down. It's one cookie, just like just one workout. Okay. Calm down. So is more, we can get people to relax about this. The more people will stop looking for all these answers, thinking like what I'm not doing is the reason why I don't look like I want, when the end, they're just not using it or they're sleeping like shit and they don't exercise. 1 (40m 56s): And they're doing all these other things to try to make up for all these things that they're not doing. 0 (41m 1s): What is your calorie intake? Just at a baseline? Like what are you looking for day to day? 1 (41m 8s): If I'm maintaining, usually I can easily pretty maintain on between usually 33,000 to 3,200 is typical. What I maintain on cutting 0 (41m 17s): Right now. And your 1 (41m 18s): Second summer, 0 (41m 19s): I mean, I'm sorry, you're five, you're short five, six. What's your weight. 1 (41m 24s): So right now this morning, I was wondering, 0 (41m 26s): Yeah, cause you're a big guy. Anyone watching this will ban you. Do you know your bait, your straw? I mean, do what's your, have you done like a DEXA? Like, do you know where you're at? 1 (41m 35s): Yeah, no, don't do DEXA just because I just haven't access to it, but I'll do it body and stuff like that. I haven't invited Theo. It was like, I think it said I was like 11, eight. It broadens out this morning. I'm usually around 12 to 13. That's kind of where I hover unless I'm cutting. I'm not, I'm not a very genetic reading person all the time. So for me to stay really lean is pretty difficult all the time, but I am cutting for an event this summer. So right now I'm currently eating 25 to 2,700 calories a day. I get a lot of steps. So for me, I get 20,000 plus steps every day. So I know my metrics like Vader in 25 to 2,700 calories. I live six days a week. And if I walk between 15, 20,000 steps a day, I'll all look exactly how I want. So I know the metrics and those are things I work on with clients as well, steps, sleep like all these different metrics. 1 (42m 20s): Right. So they can have these things to monitor versus just like I did my workout today. All right, perfect. Today. I'm like, great. That's like 40%. What'd you do with the rest of that? So once we kind of educate people on that, it's really about the entire picture. 0 (42m 31s): Yeah. It's interesting. You bring up walking. I think it's like one of these things that is such a, I don't want to say like simple thing to do, but makes such a big impact. Right? 1 (42m 39s): Okay. 0 (42m 41s): Do you have dogs? 1 (42m 43s): Yeah. 0 (42m 43s): Okay. I was going to say, cause you're walking that many steps. I hope you got 1 (42m 47s): Well, so I mean, I get about a thousand steps an hour training your client. I've kind of documented over it. So if I'm training 10 or 12 people a day, like I said, I'll have, I usually have 10 or 12,000 steps before noon. So then it's like, by the time I come home, get some stuff done in. My wife will be, I usually go for about an hour walk after dinner. I'll usually have 20, 25,000 steps, pretty easily, most on the weekends on it, 30, just because I'm super active. So for me again, my calorie needs are higher. My kidney levels super high. My muscle mass is higher. I train a ton and my food quality is very high. That allows me more. So this is how it gets really individual. 0 (43m 19s): Right yeah. And a lot of good stuff here. Well, we'll end on. I know we're at a hard stop soon. Let's let me ask you the fast for your workouts. You work out typically in the afternoon or in the mornings, or 1 (43m 34s): I liked to do warnings. 0 (43m 36s): And so you're not in a fast state during those boards. 1 (43m 39s): So no, but this is a good question. You don't actually need that much. Pre-workout okay. So again, you know, you only do spike Lucy. The threshold is 20 grams of protein. So what I do is I take one scoop of protein before I work out. That's it? Oh, I'm sorry. My pre-workout is not true. My program has carbs in it as well. What I tell my clients is take one scoop of protein powder before you work out, you will, you will, you will buffer muscle protein breakdown and you'll be fine. That's all you need. So it doesn't have to be a huge meal, like just needs to be 20 Roseburg. So mine is actually, I'll do a 20 grams of protein, but I do 60 grams of carbohydrates in mine. And then I'll do a little bit of caffeine and then I'll take my creatine afterwards because creatine and creatine actually is prevented absorption because of caffeine. 1 (44m 24s): Yeah. So caffeine prevents absorption, creatine increases excretion. So it's kind of dumb that they put them together and pre-workout butters. So I'll take my caffeine pre-workout and I'll take my CA my CRE team goes workup. 0 (44m 35s): Gotcha. So do you just use plain caffeine or do you mix or is it 1 (44m 41s): Like, I have just a, like a pre-workout that I use. It's like, it's called pure performance. It's like mark Wahlberg's company. I just like it just because one, it tastes good, but it's green tea extract. And when you understand, like where green tea comes from, versus the coffee bean versus green tea, green tea has less crashes. So that's why any caffeine I use is green tea based. But if I drink coffee, oh my God. I like it. Like, I'm like the worst person in the world when I just crash out coffee. 0 (45m 4s): Yeah. I hear ya. I feel like the same way you do. You have like a cold brew? I don't like warm coffee. I'll do a cold brew every once in a while and that stuff it'll just get you. Yeah, that'll just, yeah, it's too much. 1 (45m 18s): Well, and on the, on the note on caffeine, this, they show it's a hundred milligrams is when you're routinely going over a hundred milligrams, you'll develop a caffeine dependency. So if you can keep it a hundred or less, you can kind of then pull some of those higher caffeine days when you need it. 0 (45m 32s): Okay. And, and, you know, I know, I know I've talked about this before, but like the anabolic window after a workout, this is something I think, in the past and probably be protein supplement companies want you to think that you need to just Chuck a shake right after you worked out. But I believe the window's like almost like a 2 8, 2 day window of, of taking advantage of, of, you know, like muscle protein synthesis and getting, you know, getting the full benefit of that workout. 1 (46m 2s): Those are great. That's a great point. So you're correct. Actually the anabolic window for non trained individual is three days and animalic window for training into those 24 hours. So it's at least 24 hours. So the way that I structured nutrition is all new. I actually put all the calories of coaching after the workout, because that's technically when the anabolic window starts. So what I'll do for people's like if it's a, you know, just a fasted morning client or something like take one scoop before you work out, that's fine. Go do your workout. And within an hour or two, doesn't mean have to run out of the gym, but you know, your next meal makes that's when their protein starts. And that's actually where, what I'll do with protein is if I have someone let's say it's a woman, it's a hundred grams a day. I'll actually put 25 of breakfast, 25 at lunch. 1 (46m 42s): And I will put a huge amount of protein at dinner. And I will put a huge amount of carbohydrates at dinner. Because again, you make that person's full. You can make them sleepy, they go to bed and if they're full, you keep them full. They don't eat all night. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of, but also I'm back living their calories in, in kind of the peak of the animal. And we, I kind of will do nutrition. If you want to do this advanced you can, it doesn't, I don't think it really matters, but it's kind of whatever on paper, it looks good as if it's a three-day window. You could actually back with all of their calories in that next three anabolic window days, if it's a non train individual. So essentially Monday, well they're in the back windows in the last till Thursday. So you could have all of your calories even at dispersing those windows. And then what I'll usually do is I'm an off day while I'm doing, what's called the protein spring, modified fast. 1 (47m 22s): I pull all their calories down really, really low, and I keep it. So I'll keep it to whatever the protein is. So if it's a hundred grams a day and they a thousand calories and they have to eat a hundred grams of protein a day, so I'll pull calories way down. I just have people usually do like one to two diving days a week and it works awesome. 0 (47m 39s): Gotcha. Yeah. I, as you can tell a lot, a lot of different customization, what would you say? This is a question I asked a lot of my guests. If you have an individual, middle-aged let me say 50 years and older, and they are looking to gain. They get their body back to what it once was back when they were their twenties and thirties. What one tip would you give that individual? Even though you've given a lot of great tips this whole hour, maybe pick one, 1 (48m 6s): Well, male or female, this is a different 0 (48m 10s): Male, 1 (48m 11s): Female male. I do agree your testosterone in those check and get on TRT because your life will change. That's the first thing I would say. Now, I would say, make sure you sleep. I mean, that's everyone. I'm going to tell everyone, regardless of your sex, regardless where you're at, the first thing we have to do, you have to sleep. If you're not sleeping, I will put so many sleep studies in front of them. It's ridiculous. And the first thing I'll tell them is like anything that's considered poor sleep, which is less than six hours is the nuts day. You'll see a 25% reduction in testosterone. You're gonna see a 20% increase in your appetite. You know, see a 10% decrease with heart function. One day, You'll see it. You'll see a 10% decrease in thyroid function and the first day. So one day, okay, so this is crazy. 1 (48m 50s): So then think about what if over the course of the week, you only slept. So you need, let's back up a second full sleep cycles that are 15 minutes of sleep cycle is 90 minutes. Most people need between four to seven when they sleep. Your first half of the night is deep sleep. The second half is REM sleep. REM sleep is pretty much paralyzing. Deep sleep does not, which is why you can wake up all the time before like one or two. But in January, you won't wake up much longer after that. So when you're looking at sleep, what will happen is that's where everything happens in terms of hormonal reproduction, immune health, regeneration, tissue, regeneration, recovery, everything happens when you sleep. And so if you are seeping, say just six hours a night over, which is probably pretty average, most people, the first thing I said, how many hours you sleep? I'm like seven to eight. 1 (49m 31s): I'm like, how much do you really say five to six? I'm like, that's what I thought. So if you're looking at six hours a night, right versus eight. So if you're only sleeping six hours, right. Seven days a week. So that's 14 hours you missed this week. That's almost two full days of sleep. And it does carry over to the next week in terms of the sleep debt. And it just keeps building. And so sleep is a huge issue. And so I make sure everyone, we work on, I can't get him sleeping and then run lab tests. And I find out why they're not sleeping. I get them sleeping. And we do not use sleeping pills at all. Ever. What we'll use is usually like magnesium use a little bit of Ghada. Most people are not where we wind them down. It's a woman, especially with the menopause, progesterone was helpful. And if it's a men that's, I sort of generally helps them sleep really, really well. 1 (50m 13s): Especially if the doses in too high, it's very calming, especially when you're using replacement values like low dose, not super physiological, everything improves. So that's why I say it to get you sleeping. A lot of times everything improves and I don't care how great you are at your diet, how great your, and your training, your ass off. If you're sleeping, not gonna make any progress. And you're probably going to go back and you're going to definitely see some problems. So I would definitely say the most important thing, fix your sleep. 0 (50m 38s): I love that good note to end on. Yeah. Well, Matt, thanks for dropping so much knowledge on us. Where's the best place for people to find you. 1 (50m 48s): These are the five Ms. You just find me at my website, which is my name. So Matt Terry, and then the word fitness, Matt Terry fitness.com. They can find me there. 0 (50m 54s): Awesome. Okay. Well, Matt, thanks again for coming on. And I'm dropping all this great knowledge and yeah. Check out, check it out at his website and you could definitely reach out for a call and, and, and a consultation. So, thanks. You're welcome. Thanks for listening to the get lean, eat clean podcast. I understand there are millions of other podcasts out there and you've chosen to listen to mine. And I appreciate that. Check out the show notes@briangrin.com for everything that was mentioned in this episode, feel free to subscribe to the podcast and share it with a friend or family member. That's looking to get their body back to what it once was. Thanks again, and have a great day.
