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Coming up on the Get Lean e Klean podcast,
Anyone can find evidence on whatever they believe in. That is the truth of the world that we live in today. Yeah. And for you who are listening, you need to stop Googling the exact thing that is in your head, what you believe in. You need to put it in a very neutral term. I'll give you an an example. If you Google ketogenic diet is bad for you, you'll find all the evidence Y is bad for you. If you Google ketogenic diet, it's good for you. You'll find all the evidence why it's good for you, right? But instead, why don't you Google the effect of ketogenic diet on X, on your muscles, ketogenic diet on your brain, that effect that. That's one thing I learned during my PhD, is the ability to keep an open mind and use the most neutral keywords in Googling scientific evidence.
Hello and welcome to the Get Lean ean podcast. I'm Brian Grn and I'm here to give you actionable tips to get your body back to what it once was, five, 10, even 15 years ago. Each week I'll give you an in-depth interview with a health expert from around the world to cut through the fluff and get you long-term sustainable results. This week I interviewed the research lead of H V M N, Dr LA Manser. He shared his knowledge about exogenous ketones and their applications for peak performance health and medical therapies along with high carb versus low carb diets. The importance of self experimentation advantages of taking Keto IQ and is one tip to get your body back to what it once was.
Brian (1m 39s):
Really enjoyed my interview with la I hope you do too. Thanks so much for listening and enjoy the show. All right. Welcome to the Get Lean ean podcast. My name is Brian Grin and I have Dr. La Matzer on welcome to the show.
Latt (1m 55s):
Thank you very much for having me Brian.
Brian (1m 57s):
Thanks for coming on. And you are based outta San Francisco, correct? Yep,
Latt (2m 2s):
Brian (2m 4s):
And maybe tell the audience a little bit of background of yourself and sort of how you got into, you know, health wellness and you know, all of the above.
Latt (2m 14s):
Sure. So I'll start off with where I was born and brought up. I was born and bred in Malaysia. I grew up there, I did my high school and everything in A levels. And then I left the country when I was 20, did my undergraduate in University of Ingham in the uk. And then right after that I continued doing my masters also in biotechnology. So my undergrad was in biotechnology and my masters in biotechnology was from Columbia University in New York. And that was my first time in the States. And then right after that I got a job in a, in clinical trials, in clinical operations in a pharmaceutical company. I worked in New Jersey for half a year before moving to Munich and worked for them full-time.
Latt (2m 57s):
So I worked for them in the Munich for a whole year before I went back to school cuz I was so inspired by the people within the company who are scientists but also very entrepreneurial. So I thought I want to be like them to be able to communicate science in such a manner that is interesting, that is intriguing and that is very informative to the layman. And I went back to school, went back to the UK cuz it's much shorter to do a PhD there compared to in the US Oh it takes three years. So I did my PhD in physiology, anatomy and genetics specializing in metabolism of type two diabetic hearts in hypoxia, which is low oxygen at the University of Oxford in the uk.
Latt (3m 46s):
And then because of my family's side, my mom's side has very high prevalence of diabetes. My dad's side has very high prevalence of heart attack and my late dad passed away from stroke and before that he had a heart attack. So because of that chronic disease prevalence in my family, I became very and ended up studying, you know, cardiovascular disease and and and diabetes. And then after my PhD I worked in a startup in Singapore that is offering diabetes management program through an ad, through an app as well as having in-house dietician to slowly guide people on what to eat and change a lifestyle and all of that.
Latt (4m 31s):
And then a year and a half later I came out, started my own company around health tech and then ran that for a year and a half before I found a, a health volume on nutrition, which is the company I'm working for now. So right now the hat I am wearing, I oversee all the research collaborations with institutions, researchers also running their 6 million contract with the Department of Defense, a grant that we got using exogenous ketones to enhance cognitive and physical performance in hypoxia. And again that's low oxygen. So that's very relevant to the military when it comes to high altitude or deep sea exploration.
Brian (5m 13s):
Well excellent, thank you for all that very interesting work. It's in, I've had Dr. Don Di Augustino on and great. Yeah, he, he's been on actually a few times, maybe even three times. And yeah, I'm curious, maybe go a little bit into detail about the, the recent contract, the government contract regarding how ketones can, can help with, you know, like you mentioned brain health.
Latt (5m 39s):
Yeah, sure. So when I joined the company in 2019, it was already granted the phase two of S T T R and they already completed the phase one. So phase one is more of a proof of concept. They are not using the military personnel, they're using population that is very similar, comparable to military personnel to really try and see what actually is the effect of exogenous ketones on brain health, especially when it comes to hypoxia. So as we know, our brain uses about 20% of total energy that our body uses, right? So given how small the brain is in terms of weight compared to the rest of the body, it sure is using a lot more energy compared to the rest of the body.
Latt (6m 23s):
And when we are talking about using energy, we're talking about respiration. And when we're talking about respiration, we cannot disconnect that with availability of oxygen because whenever we talk about respiration is the generation of a T P, which is the energy currency in the body and the cells and how do you generate a t p is via, you know, a cascade of events. Glycolysis or beta oxidation for fatty acid goes down the crabb cycle and then goes through oxidative phosphorylation. And through that process ATP is being generated but you also need oxygen as the final carrier because then you create, you know, water and also prevent all these free radicals from from being being released.
Latt (7m 11s):
So when you are in hypoxic environment, when you are in a hypoxic environment, meaning low oxygen environment, obviously that whole process of respiration is gonna get affected and get impacted and as a result your brain uses that much energy. And when you are low on oxygen, your brain function is gonna get negatively impacted. And we have seen again and again when you are in low oxygen environment, the cognitive performance drops considerably and that is also correlated very strongly with oxygen saturation in the brain. Now what we sort of postulate at that point during phase one is that having exon ketones in the the body, it may actually help mitigate that decline in cognition.
Latt (8m 4s):
Hmm. And this paper was also published already now and we did see a mitigation of decline, which is amazing because what we know is under nomia, which is normal oxygen environment, the presence of ketones, whether it's via a intermittent fasting or ketogenic diet or exogenous ketones, it increases brain activity, it increases brain energy efficiency, it increases interactions between brain regions, ie. Brain network stability. So in this case, when we put these participants in low oxygen environment, the placebo participants got a drop in cognition as they did the cognitive tests.
Latt (8m 48s):
So memory recall, accuracy, reaction time, all of that get affected. And then when they're on ketones, that decline in, in cognition actually got mitigated. So that prompted the government to say, hey, this is good enough data to embark on a phase two trial, which actually have a much more elaborate list of tasks that measure, you know, all of these metabolic biomarkers, but at the same time also look closely on the outcome that may be useful for military personnel when they're out in the field
Brian (9m 26s):
And hypoxia. So it's a condition when the body lacks adequate oxygen. Yeah. And so is that would be, would that mean like someone's underwater or some something along those lines? Yeah,
Latt (9m 39s):
It could be underwater, it could be in high altitude in mountains where you know, oxygen availability here slower. Or even if you're talking about just temporary transient hypoxic situations, when you are really doing, when you're pushing yourself working out doing anaerobic exercises, your muscle cells are going through hypoxia during that time. So that also really modulates what type of fuel we are utilizing and it really determines what pathway gets upregulated and what pathway gets downregulated depending on the efficiency of that particular cell in metabolizing that particular substrate.
Brian (10m 23s):
Got it. Okay. And I know you're obviously working with H V M N and they make a drink, I see it in the background there, ketones iq.
Latt (10m 32s):
Brian (10m 33s):
So explain that a little bit and what, when I explain the drink and then, and then I'm curious, exogenous ketones, I'm, I'm assuming you use them sort of targeted at certain times and things like that? Yeah,
Latt (10m 46s):
I just had one shot before, before our recording. I always take it before our podcast. It helps me stay focused and it gives me a lot of clarity when it comes to explanation, when it comes to coherence, when it comes to just speaking in general. Cuz most of the time, you know, you know this Brian, you know when we do podcasts we don't have second takes but most of the time we don't do that because we are like, it's a whole conversation, we're just gonna keep the flow going. Right, right. I think that really helps me be in the right mindset and and in the right zone for that. So I'll tell a little bit on the history of H VM N and exogenous ketones to begin with.
Latt (11m 28s):
In 2017 H VM N brought to the market the first ever KE Esther. And that was the first exogenous ke that really significant increase of blood B H B levels beyond two millimolar. It's between three to five millimolar, what's before that? And I say the first ever Exogen keto because before that you have had ketones, salts and MCTs. Yes they are ketogenic, yes they increased blood BHP level, but most of the time they don't go further beyond one millimolar. So Keto Nest was the first exogenous ketones that was brought into the market in 2017 that raises it up to three to five millimolar.
Latt (12m 8s):
Fast forward three years more research come, came out and a lot more focus was put on exogenous ketones because while we see a lot of benefits with ketogenic diet, there are certain situations where it doesn't permit the ketogenic diet or the ketogenic diet is not as effective in raising KE levels either due to medication, due to lifestyle, due to due to genetics. That way you can just drink a KE and have a predictable elevation of blood KE levels and you know where it's gonna go and you can easily measure certain outcomes in clinical trials when you're given that sort of constant consistent variable.
Latt (12m 57s):
So then in 2000 I believe 2020 we stopped producing keto nesters. There are a couple of reasons and then in in in, you know, early last year, 2022 we launched Keto iq which is also another form of exogenous keto. Now what is keto esta? The three main keto bodies that we produce in our bodies are asto acetate, acetone and beta hydroxybutyrate. Beta hydroxybutyrate or BHB is the main keto body that is used for metabolism and being transported around the, the body in the blood. So whenever people measure blood keto levels, that's a big BHP that they're measuring.
Latt (13m 37s):
Keto esters are essentially A B H B molecule bound with a R one three B dial molecule. That is the first keto monona that the H V M A came out by now there are a lot more keto. The keto is just a chemical term essentially it's a keto bound with something in an estaban and usually that's something is R three butin dial. So we have ASID dista, we have C c6 dista now all bound with butin dial. And if you notice all these things, all these molecules have one thing in common, half of it or one third of it is R three butin dial.
Latt (14m 18s):
And that is exactly what keto, sorry, that's exactly what keto IQ is. It is CHI pure R 13 butan dial. So the reason why we swapped over to butan dial are three reason act actually one, it's cheaper to produce two, it is easier to do r and d on the flavoring because if you have triche asta it is extremely bitter and it doesn't taste good. And for people who are using it for athletic purposes, like one dose, two doses, when they go training, that's fine. But for people who want to do it on a daily basis for metabolic health purposes, it's a bit difficult to swallow to to you know, do it every day.
Latt (15m 1s):
And then the third reason is that some studies actually came out saying that between two millimolar and formula blood b h B level in terms of performance, the oxidation level of ketones doesn't increase that much. Zero to two it increases quite a lot. But then two to four has diminishing we return essentially. And then also by spiking your blood B H B to that high of a level three to five millimolar within half an hour, it may actually be more detrimental than it is beneficial because one paper published by McCarthy, they saw an in, well overall across the board they have seen an increase in acidity, in blood acidity when you spike blood BSH be that high.
Latt (15m 45s):
But then this particular paper actually in correlated the increasing blood acidity with increased cardio, respiratory stress biomarkers, ie heart rates and increased rate of perceived exertion. So you feel like you're working harder because you're trying really hard to expel out all the extra carbon dioxide, you know, to really reduce the acidity level but then you're not getting an improvement in performance. They didn't do worse but you have no improvement but then you are you, you're feeling like you're working harder. So then rrn three beauty dialogue goes through your liver and gets converted to B H B.
Latt (16m 26s):
So your liver is a gatekeeper that has all the feedback from the rest of your body saying that hey, if I have enough energy here, let's convert this B DL into BH B at a much slower rate. That way you won't be able to spike your blood BHB to that higher of a level. And then because of that it's a much more slow releasing mechanism, which means you can also stay in ketosis or stay above one millimolar for a much longer period.
Brian (16m 52s):
Okay, thank you for that explanation. I'm curious, so this is something that individuals can use obviously on a daily basis perhaps. Do you find that it's important to perhaps come in and out of ketosis? I remember Dr Dino mentioned that he thought that he wasn't a huge fan of like long-term ketosis. What are your thoughts on that?
Latt (17m 16s):
I think depend when you say long-term of ketosis, I think it really depends on what is the method, right? But if you are using exogenous ketones, you will go in and out of ketosis cuz the presence of glucose in your body will spike insulin and insulin will stop ketogenesis from happening from from the liver. So that's fine. So for me, I think some form of ketones in your body sort of consistently would be better than none at all. And I do think if people are doing ketogenic diet for long term and they do, they are seeing a lot of benefits from it, then keep doing that. However, I have had a lot of guests that come come onto H V M N podcast, the Health Value Modern Nutrition podcast.
Latt (18m 3s):
They are host, they are doctors who have experienced patients who initially get a lot of benefit from say ketogenic diet or any form of diet. And then as they go on, you know, one year, two years they start to see diminish diminishing return or they're not losing weight or they're getting some form of dysfunction because the body, one, the body's getting used to it and two, it may lack certain nutrients from other food source that you are excluding completely. So, and and and another doctor, Dr. Daniel Pumper, he was a guest as well and he spoke of the feeling, the good feeling that you feel when you switch diet is not necessarily the diet in and of itself, but it could be the switch of your microbiome.
Latt (18m 55s):
It's the stress, the oxidative, no the hamis, which is the stress that you're putting your body through, especially your microbiome that is producing that effect. It's, it's an adaptation process to a new environmental change in the microbiome and therefore you are experiencing that good feeling or the stress feeling depending, you know, in the first few days the adaptation period you probably don't feel as well. And then as you adapt to it you feel better and then you know, the stress will make you do things that you will normally do, you will not normally do when you are on the diet that you've been on for the past 2, 3, 5 years.
Brian (19m 39s):
Yeah, yeah. It's interesting cuz I've heard some conflicting things regarding, you know, long-term ketosis I've had, I just had, I don't know if you know Danny Roddy, but he's part of like this bioenergetic viewpoint where ketosis can raise your stress hormones, adrenaline and no adrenaline. And essentially you're, you know, when you switch from glucose to fatty acid metabolism, this can happen. And he, he would call it more of this is like using fatty acids almost as like a survival viewpoint, you know? And so I just was curious your thoughts around that.
Latt (20m 13s):
Now I think, I think it really depends on the metabolic flexibility of that individual. I don't think we can ever generalize and say doing keto diet for X number of months, for three months is better than doing six months. Or it's sure, you know, three months is better than doing two weeks. I think it really depends on the person's metabolic flexibility. And I think, you know, people have been calling for the longest time, but also it's also the hardest thing to do, which is personalized nutrition and personalized lifestyle changes. It's very difficult. While we can rely on studies and clinical trials on certain conclusions and certain data, know that every scientific study have their own flaws and have their own limitations and they can generalize so far on, on what we should do or what we should be eating and what we shouldn't be eating.
Latt (21m 11s):
But at the same time, if your genetic makeup is different, if your lifestyle fundamentally is different, you're from different parts of the world. You are going through different stresses of the environments and different factors in the environment, in the water, in all of that, really dial into what is good for you. So I always tell people that you are the PhDs of your body. Nobody knows your body better than you yourself. So go out there and we've got a whole lifetime. Like I see my body as a life, life as a science experiment for the rest of my life, right? I have a whole lifetime to trial and error, see what works for me and then go back to the drawing board if I need to adjust as needed and then try again.
Latt (22m 1s):
Because that's what we do as humans. We, we, that's how we progress. That's well how we advance technology, we try it on ourselves. While it is great to think that, you know, there is somebody out there who is quote unquote an expert and tell me exactly what I need to do. I mean you can pay people for that, for, you know, nutritionist or personal training. They can hone down what is, you know, as personalized as possible for you. But ultimately do you feel good about it? You know, you, you need to know why are they telling you this? Why are they recommending certain foods for you? And you need to know that. I think part of why I'm running H V M N podcast is for that particular reason is to really put information and knowledge out there so that people can make their own informed decisions and people can learn more about what their bodies are doing and how they're feeling.
Brian (22m 57s):
Yeah, I mean, I agree. I always talk about on my podcast, like self experimentation. Hmm. Like cuz you'll, you'll have one guy on your podcast who's a carnivore and you know, he is loving it, this and that and he's done it for a while and then you have another guy who's a complete opposite, right? So it's like you do have to sort of find what works for you and, and you know, maybe what type of, would you recommend any certain, like blood markers or tests or do, do you any, when you do tests on yourself, do you do like certain blood tests or like DEXA scans or things like that just to see how how certain foods affect you?
Latt (23m 33s):
I would love to, especially with the, with the technology that we have these days, it's so, so easy to test. You know, I think continuous glucose monitoring is a very good one to really look into what kind of food spike your sugar and then as an assumption you can assume that also spikes your insulin. And what we don't want is a constant or consistent elevation of insulin. Cuz there's a lot of studies are pointing towards the consistent elevation of insulin is actually causing all these different chronic diseases. DEXA scan obviously that is also very helpful and informative. Obviously that's also quite expensive for people as well and certain places might not have it.
Latt (24m 18s):
I think sleep quality, that's one thing that a lot of people don't or or have overlooked it, it's really amazing how much sleep quality affects the rest of our, our waking hours at, you know, the quality of my workout, the quality of my work, of my cognitive performance while I'm doing podcasts. For example, look at your sleep quality using rra, using whoop or whatever wearables that are easily accessible. And from that try and fine tune what your daily habits are and see what can you do to improve it if it's not ideal.
Brian (24m 58s):
Now do you measure your, do you do blood measurement for your minimal for ketones after you do have Yeah,
Latt (25m 6s):
Yeah. So that's a great question. So a lot of people was like, oh, if I, if I take keto iq, if I take exogenous ketones, do I have to measure my blood ketones all the time? The answer is no. You don't need to measure every time you drink it. You can measure first few times just knowing that how your body reacts to it and how sort of the, the, the miracle, the, the good thing about exhort keto is the predictability of your blood keto levels. Because if you are intermittent fasting or if you are on ketogenic diet, it really depends on your body, on your activity level. If you're exercising you might produce more ketones. If you are fasting longer, you produce more ketones. But then you dunno where the level is. The thing with exor with the thing is with exogenous ketones is that you can predict roughly what's the range that your body is gonna gonna be at in terms of blood b h B levels.
Latt (25m 58s):
So, you know, feel free to test the first few times just to see, you know, does the product work, does my body react well to it? And then after that you can pretty much feel subjectively different when you are on keto IQ for example. So you don't need to, I don't, I don't measure it all, all, all that often really.
Brian (26m 21s):
Do you use it like sometimes pre-workout?
Latt (26m 24s):
I do. I see that's perk of being a research leader of H V M N I, I get access to Keto iq, so I, I use it before podcasts. I do use it before workout and most of the time I do use it post-workout as well.
Brian (26m 40s):
Interesting. And so what are, what are some of the things, what the biggest things that you've learned over the last few years and have you changed your stance in anything? Just be affiliated with, you know, this company and just from all your research?
Latt (26m 52s):
Oh yeah, absolutely. I'm so glad you, you, you point this out, Brian and, and I I, I talked about this quite a bit as well on, on our podcast, is that science is all about change. Science is about learning new things and changing your views. It's not about holding onto your ego and your pride and thinking that just because you admit that you were wrong, everything come, come, come crumbling sta crumbling down, right? It's, it's just not, it doesn't work that way. And, and not, not a single human, no matter how much of an expert you are can be always right. So for example, one thing that I definitely fundamentally changed was my view on fact because when I was doing my PhD it was, you know, we, I I created a type two diabetic rat model using high fat diet, but the high fat diet has about 60% calories coming from fat, but still quite high, about 20 to 30% coming from carbs.
Latt (27m 52s):
So it's essentially quite high fat, but then also quite a lot of carbs and very low protein. And that's is com in combination with a drug called TZ streptozotocin that partially un disabled the pancreatic beta cells to secrete insulin. So that's sort of mimic the type two diabetic phenotype since then, you know, during that time I was like, okay, fat is really bad. I have had a a in my undergrad, I remember whole year because I grew up overweight all my life too. So when I first lost all those weight in my second year in my undergrad, I basically went on the whole year just eating very, very low fat, just high protein, low carbs and basically like Atkins diet, right?
Latt (28m 46s):
And I lost all those weight, you know, high protein, low fat, low carbs, and essentially probably a very, you know, high deficit in in in calories as well. So obviously I'll lose weight and then I start exercising and I thought fat is the culprit because I was studying cardiovascular disease and da da da and all this blood clots and theoral sclerosis and arteri sclerosis, all of this. And then I joined H V M N and then I started looking more closely into ketogenic diet, what sort of difference ketogenic diet is doing to say Alzheimer's patients to diabetic patients. Even work by Verta Health and Jeff Wallick in the stiffy of the world and how they are reversing diabetics with high fat diet, well ketogenic diet, high fat, really, really low carb diet.
Latt (29m 40s):
But then there are also other school of thought where they used high carbs and very low low fat diet and they're reversing diabetes too, right? Right. So like rich is rich and and to the listeners who are hearing this, like I can tell you like both ways are viable, right? It's essentially the access, the the access in in calories that is causing the body to go haywire. You know, it doesn't matter if it's a lot of carbs, a lot of, a lot of fat, yes. The quality for sure, for sure it affects it like seed oil for example has been showed again and it has been shown again and again really drives inflammation in all of that.
Latt (30m 24s):
But also seed oil and all these bad quality fats or bad quality processed carbs in combination with high calorie intake, now you have recipe for disaster, right? So it's not just calories, it's not just seed oil, it's, it's a combination of everything. It's a lifestyle disease. So essentially it's, it is everything that you put into your body that's the difference. So that was one change that I have definitely made very clearly to be more open-minded when it comes to fats being good for you or bad for you or l d or seed oil versus, you know, omega-3 versus omega six.
Latt (31m 7s):
You know, which like those nuances is what we, scientists are now slowly finding out. But then it'll just, it'll take even much, much longer for the public to find out because the mainstream media is not publishing these now yes you can Google it but then if you don't know what it is then you don't know what to Google.
Brian (31m 27s):
Yeah and I'm glad you brought that up cuz pfas are, have, have, I think like just being in the health world have come up a lot. Dr. Ray, Pete, I don't know if you know who that is, talks a lot about how PFA obviously causes inflammation, decreases cell cellular energy production and then how, you know, saturated fats are, are really the the things that you should look to be implementing into your diet and try to obviously not eliminate all together. You can't poof us are are everywhere, you know, but as much as you can, you can try to try to get them outta your diet. Cuz they're pretty much in every food almost. Unless you're, I always say the best recipe is cooking for yourself because then you know exactly what's going in your food.
Brian (32m 11s):
Latt (32m 12s):
Yeah, for sure. I think. And then there are also other studies that point towards the ratio of omega-3 omega six. Like omega three is good for you. Omega six is the, you know, the bad ones, but then supplementing omega-3 may not be the best option. You should get it from Whole Foods and Right. All that, you know, you have to like unpack that as well. So
Brian (32m 34s):
You can go down this sort of rabbit, rabbit hole rabbit, yes. Yeah. And, and you could pretty much find an answer that you wanna find to, to some degree, right? Like, I mean you could probably find a diet for anything, but, but, but I like that you point out that you can get results and I, and this, this was sort of a, a viewpoint that I've changed over the years with having a higher carb diet as opposed to, I think people just thought, oh well I go low carb heals everything and it's not necessarily true. There's a lot of other factors, endotoxin, gut, you know, gut health. And I think that's why fasting actually helps a lot of people is because it sort of takes you away from maybe these gut stressors that could be causing a lot of, you know, inflammation and, and just causing a lot of, you know, endotoxin and things like that that could be causing the issues.
Latt (33m 20s):
Yeah, for sure. I think, I mean hence why I'm still fasting right now. I haven't eaten anything yet. It's almost 3:00 PM just had a keto, an IQ also because, you know, for work I've been having back to back calls and stuff, so I haven't had time. You've been busy.
Brian (33m 34s):
Latt (33m 35s):
Yeah. But also I'm glad that you pointed out like anyone can find evidence on whatever they believe in that is the truth of the yes world that we live in today. Yeah. And for you who are listening, you need to stop googling the exact thing that is in your head, what you believe in. You need to put it in a very neutral term. I'll give you an an example. If you google ketogenic diet is bad for you, you'll find all the evidence y it's bad for you. If you google ketogenic diet, it's good for you, you'll find all the evidence y it's good for you, right? But instead, why don't you Google the effect of ketogenic diet on x, on your muscles, ketogenic diet on your brain, that effect that, that's one thing I learned during my PhD is the ability to keep an open mind and use the most neutral keywords in Googling scientific evidence.
Latt (34m 30s):
Because nowadays, and also, you know, obviously look at the, the source of the information that you are looking at as well. Like, you know, is it peer review published papers or is it just another blog post by a company that is selling stuff that is related to, it's like most of these articles when it says supplement is good for you and then right at the end it's like, oh this is the best supplement that we have for you. Actually yeah, it's the same thing. You know, you don't need to go anywhere, you can just put in order right now, look at the conflict of interest to see whether the science is actually backed up by substantial, rigorous research or is it just a blog post That sounds very good but too good to be true.
Brian (35m 16s):
Yeah, no that's a great point. So where, where do you think the future's heading as far as, you know, with you guys with your company and what's on the horizon? I mean go ahead and I guess you can answer that and I have some thoughts on it as well. What do you think?
Latt (35m 32s):
Yeah, sure. I think right now from the research end, I can tell you we've got two grants that are in the pipeline right now. One is using keto IQ to look at mitigating the mid to long term effect of traumatic brain injury. T B I. So this is for the military. And then another grant is to optimize waking cycle and minimize the sleep cycle using Keto IQ as well. This is in conjunction with Washington State University. So we'll hopefully find out the decision on the g those ground applications in April. And in terms of on the commercial side, I think right now we are really pushing for a lot of education, a lot of awareness and knowledge.
Latt (36m 20s):
And we recently just partnered with Dr. Andrew Huberman on his Huberman lab podcast so that way more people are now hearing about keto IQ and people are curious, okay, what is keto iq? What is ketones to begin with? And then, and then let's start a conversation, right? And we are always looking to improve and this is not, you know, by all means an all be all solution as well. Like I, we are looking to improve to the next version of Keto iq. That could be even better, it could be cheaper, that could be more scalable, that can be more accessible to people, especially if they're, they're taking it on a daily basis for whatever reason, for cognition, for Alzheimer's, for epilepsy, for diabetes, for metabolic health, really positioning keto as a fourth macronutrient.
Latt (37m 10s):
I think that's really interesting point of view in the sense that we've got carbohydrates, fats, and proteins and when protein supplementation came out, you know, whey protein, you know, decades ago and I would assume it probably faced the same questions and same intrigued and same, same sort of scrutiny as ketones are right now, right? But now people are realizing, okay, I don't get enough protein intake in my food sources, so I'm gonna supplement it with whey protein powder. And that works very, very well, has been proven in studies have been proven in many sports as well, recovery, all of that.
Latt (37m 50s):
So I hope that one day ketones can be recognized, you know, when we make it taste better like whey protein.
Brian (37m 58s):
Yeah, I was curious. I I saw you do a shot with Benaza. I watched some of that podcast. Yeah. And I was like, God, I don't know if he's enjoying that shot.
Latt (38m 6s):
Does it? Doesn't I have to, you know, full disclaimer, full transparency. Yeah. It's not the best tasting drink, right? You know, there's, there's, we say it around the company, it tastes like it works, but, but know that it tastes way, way better than the first generation, which is the Kita. So we are still working on flavor research and development for sure. And a lot of people actually got used to the taste already, surprisingly. They're like, actually don't mind the taste. I was like, okay, that's great. So I think looking from that point of view is like having this macronutrient supplementation cuz it, it is calories, right? It produces a t p it gives you the fuel that you need, that your body needs to produce a t p.
Latt (38m 53s):
And you are not getting, you know, ketones from anywhere else unless you are on ketogenic diet or you are on high fat, you know, low cup diet where you still have to convert those fat into ketones via your liver. And a lot of people argue it's like, yeah, I can, you know, produce my own ketones for free. Yeah, true. But then if you're gonna consume the calories anyway, this is a direct keto consumption and it's only 70 calories and if you can't afford it, you know, granted, like, you know, most of these people, they're like, oh, it's expensive, or like, if you can't afford it, then I don't see why not have that direct access to, to ketones rather than, you know, having, having the diet.
Latt (39m 35s):
And it gives you the flexibility as well to not have to stick to a strict regime while being able to utilize both glucose and ketones. Actually recently we just completed a study with the University of North Georgia looking at anaerobic exercise and keto iq. And this has never been done before because as we know in metabolism when it comes to anaerobic exercise or intense exercise, glucose will always triumph either other, any other substrates because it's the fast energy that glucose is providing that puts you through these intense exercises. We are seeing really, really surprising results here because given keto IQ and carbs together, it's pushing the average power and the average peak power across the board for these participants in really intense exercise.
Latt (40m 30s):
So I just reviewed the manuscript yesterday and we are submitting it soon, so can't give up too much, but we are seeing an, a huge increase in power output as well as lowering fatigue levels when they're on ketones and carbs. So that, that might prompt us to look into metabolism of ketones, especially when it comes to performance in a slightly different lens. Because all this while we thought this could only be useful for endurance athletes because endurance athletes may utilize fat more as they go for a much, much longer race or much longer exercise bout then, you know, glucose will be less useful because then you'll be, you'll be depleting your glycogen already anyway so you're, you're tapping into your fat stores.
Latt (41m 23s):
But for these participants using keto IQ and calves for anaerobic exercises and seeing an improvement in the power output and decrease in fatigue may be very interesting for athletes like CrossFitters, bodybuilders, power lifters, sprinters, that sort of area.
Brian (41m 42s):
Yeah. And I'm a big routine guy, so I'm just curious lad, what, what are your routines like in there in San Francisco morning, evening? Obviously drinking a drink, keto IQ is one thing, but what other things do you implement into your life as far as routines?
Latt (42m 0s):
See, you know, me like many, many, many humans in this world, I'm not perfect, you know, so do as I say, not as I do. No, I mean I try to try to really improve my, my daily routine and I, me as well, I am a routine person and whenever I go travel and my routine get gets hawi, it gets really stressful for me. So what I like, you know, wake up in the morning, I actually don't have my keto IQ in the morning. I have it right before my podcast, depending on when my, when my podcast is. So that's usually my first shot of Keto iq. I'll, I'll work throughout the day until, you know, five, six or whatever. And then I'll have my pre-workout Keto iq, I'll hit the gym, I'll focus a lot more on weightlifting and then I'll finish off with either high intensity interval training or a longer, longer period of just steady, steady state low intensity or medium intensity cardio.
Latt (42m 59s):
And then after that I'll come home, I'll have my protein shake and my post-workout meal or whatever and then I'll have a keto IQ later, before right before bed. What I am trying to implement into my daily routine right now that I'm struggling with is my steps really because I work from home and work remotely and the, my gym is like a block away. So my You
Brian (43m 29s):
Need a dog?
Latt (43m 30s):
You need a dog. I know.
Brian (43m 32s):
There you go. I just, I just, I just fixed your problem.
Latt (43m 36s):
Yeah. But, but added a lot more because you know, when I travel I have to now look for like daycare and all that stuff. So, and I travel quite a bit for work as well, so that's gonna be a headache.
Brian (43m 48s):
Gotcha. Well I have two dogs and they get me out every morning, so Yeah, there
Latt (43m 53s):
Brian (43m 55s):
You know what I, I would recommend if it's like I lo like the morning walk, like if you can, you know, even if it's like 20 minutes, right? Like I think that can make, that's a good time to add it sounds like. Yeah, yeah,
Latt (44m 6s):
For sure. For sure. I mean like, it's not because I'm already, you know, working out like quite intensely in the gym, it's just adding that, that walk in I think would really help switch my metabolism around cuz I think my body is getting used to it and no matter how many times I swap the training programs or or nutrition, there's only so much you can do. Right. And your body's still kind of, it's the plasticity of our bodies, of our metabolism. It wants to keep, keep it in the comfort zone where it's, it's nice
Brian (44m 40s):
And comfort homeostasis, right? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And like I just ha I just interviewed God John a blank on her name, but you know, she was big into morning walks too. Just the, the the the fact of your eyes seeing the sun Yeah. In the morning and with your circadian rhythm and you know, getting that nice cortisol response to, to get the day going.
Latt (45m 0s):
Yeah, for sure. I mean you get the cortisol increase, you get the decrease in melatonin and you really like wake yourself up. That's something that I definitely struggle with most of my life. I'm cuz I'm not a morning person.
Brian (45m 13s):
Latt (45m 13s):
That's, that's just the honest, you know, honest truth. Some of us, some of us are, some of us aren't. Yeah, I, I, you know, it doesn't help that during my student times game quite a bit. So I mean usually gamers are oh knock nocturnal people.
Brian (45m 29s):
I hear ya. Well this is great Lance. I'm, I'm looking forward to coming on your podcast in a few months, so that'll be, that'll be good. And where's the best place for people to find you?
Latt (45m 41s):
They can find me on all social media platform at La Mansur, L a t t m a n s o r. And you can find hvm n at hvm n on all platforms as well. And do check out the health volume on a nutrition podcast with Dr. La Manso. Yeah, yeah. On all major platforms. Spotify, apple Podcast, you name it. And we are also on YouTube. Go have a listen if you guys like it, leave a review and feedback very much welcome.
Brian (46m 12s):
Yeah. And I'll put links in the show notes for, for all those. And I, I wanted to ask you one more question that I asked all my guests. If you were gonna give advice to an individual, maybe they were 40 plus, 50 plus years old and they're looking to maybe get their body back to what it once was maybe 10, 15 years ago, what one tip would you give that individual?
Latt (46m 32s):
You know what, I, I would love that tip cuz I'm, I'm, I'm getting there, you know, I'm turning 38 this year.
Brian (46m 37s):
Oh, you're young.
Latt (46m 39s):
You say, you know, you're in their forties. So I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm getting back. I think, I think start, because by that time we already know quite a lot about our bodies so you know, roughly what works for you.
Brian (46m 53s):
Latt (46m 54s):
But what usually gets in the way if the consistency, so start slow, take one step at a time, change one thing at a time, right? Because at that age as well, if you do too many things and stress your body out too much, it may actually break your metabolism instead of shifting it towards a positive. If you're doing ketogenic diet, calorie restriction, intermittent fasting, right? And taking, taking, you know, and doing hit high intensity interval training, you're gonna break your body cuz you won't have time to recover. The whole goal is, I always believe what doesn't kill us make us stronger. Right? So you want to push yourself to that level, but not break it, let it recover, push yourself to that level again, let it recover.
Latt (47m 39s):
And then your body then knows the system. Okay, now I know he's gonna push me to the verge of breaking, so I need to create stronger muscle. I need to create more muscle fibers. I need to shed more fat, I need to lose more weight because I'm running longer and I need that, you know, less resistance. So then the next time this person, this owner of the body pushed me to that, you know, level of, of being broken, then I can adapt to it better and faster. And within weeks you'll see much, much better adaptation. And then you just ramp it up from there. It's always the starting point and then getting the consistency.
Latt (48m 20s):
A lot of times we get a, a surge of motivation and then we push ourselves and we feel great for the first week and then everything aches and then we skip for, for a week and they got, it gets comfortable,
Brian (48m 34s):
Latt (48m 35s):
And we take another week off and then we do that again and we are not seeing results and then we get demotivated. I would rather do three times a week.
Brian (48m 45s):
Latt (48m 46s):
You know, get consistent, go up to five and then go up longer time shorter rests and all of that. Well,
Brian (48m 54s):
And, and I think it's a good point. I mean, consistency is so key. I mean, that's something that I've been blessed to be doing for 20 years and it, there's, there's not like a magic pill and it's not gonna happen all at once. And if you try to do it all at once, like you said, then you're sort of getting away from the recovery and the recovery is just as important as the actual working out itself or whatever you're implementing into your life. And yeah, so I agree. I I always talk about doing one thing at a time and, and once you build that habit, then maybe you can stack on one more thing, but that, you know, consistency, there's nothing that that'll outdo that.
Latt (49m 28s):
Yeah. And like you said, there is no one miracle pill, there is no one secret advice that everyone is holding back and, and you know, you just need to find that secret and everything will go hunky dory. It doesn't work like that. You need to work on your foundation and there is no a, there's no cookie cutter that you can just fit into a mold. Like you need to work on what works for you the best and works what works for your schedule and your timetable and your lifestyle with your families and you know, all of that. You need to fit it in for yourself and then from there say, okay, this fits very well and then I can do it consistently.
Latt (50m 8s):
And then you'll see results without even like trying.
Brian (50m 11s):
Yeah. Well, LA this was great. I look forward to seeing you in a, a few months and hopefully by then maybe you'll be like, Brian, hey, you know what I've been doing morning walks, you changed my life.
Latt (50m 21s):
Right. That'll be, that'll be a good follow up, wouldn't it? Yeah.
Brian (50m 25s):
Hey, I'm gonna hold you accountable, so, so when we talk there you go in April.
Latt (50m 29s):
There you go. Yeah. Looking forward to it. Thank you so much for having me.
Brian (50m 33s):
Yeah, thanks for coming on. Thanks for listening to the Get Lean EAN podcast. I understand there are millions of other podcasts out there and you've chosen to listen to mine and I appreciate that. Check out the show firstname.lastname@example.org for everything that was mentioned in this episode. Feel free to subscribe to the podcast and share it with a friend or family member that's looking to get their body back to what it once was. Thanks again and have a great day.
Dr. Latt Mansor holds a PhD in Physiology, Anatomy and Genetics from the University of Oxford. He also holds an MA (Columbia University) and BS (University of Nottingham) in Biotechnology. Latt brings over a decade of experience spanning academic research, health technology, and pharmaceuticals. As H.V.M.N.’s Research Lead, he oversees the scientific development and clinical applications for all H.V.M.N. products.https://www.instagram.com/lattmansor/