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There is nothing wrong in the structure of a diabetic person in the inside of the cell. It's the fact that they're oversupplying one type of the micronutrient. Cause we can only oxidize glucose or fats, even protein before it gets oxidized. These two gets converted to glucose. So really the two micronutrients are fatty acids and glucose. So by oversupplying, one of the micronutrients, whether through diet, because initially has to start with that, right? But eventually when you accumulate more fat and then you have higher than level baseline lipolysis, then you're crowding out the glucose from the metabolic machinery and it cannot get metabolized. And that's what really, that's what presents, because this elevated glucose, since you cannot get metabolized, it results in higher than higher amounts of insulin.
And that's type two diabetes. Basically, you're getting hyperinsulinemia, hyper hyperglycemia, and hyperlipidemia. And these three together, I think, depending on how high your glucose is, can actually officially define type two diabetes.
Hello and welcome to the Getline ean podcast. I'm Brian Grn, and I'm here to give you actionable tips to get your body back to what it once was, five, 10, even 15 years ago. Each week, I'll give you an in-depth interview with a health expert from around the world to cut through the fluff and get you long-term sustainable results. This week I interviewed independent health researcher, Georgie Dinko. We discussed the bioenergetic viewpoint, along with true causes of insulin resistance, problems with stress and fasting FA versus glucose oxidation, advantages of taking niacinamide, vitamin E, and aspirin, and certain markers to check for optimal health.
Brian (1m 40s):
Really enjoyed my interview with Georgie. He is a ton of great knowledge, and I know you will enjoy this interview. So thanks so much for listening and enjoy the show. All right, welcome to the Get Lean E Clean podcast. My name is Brian grn and I have Georgie Dinko on the show. Welcome to the show.
Georgi (1m 59s):
Thanks for providing me.
Brian (2m 1s):
Thanks for coming on. I'm a big fan of, listened to quite a bit of your interviews all over, you've been on a lot of podcasts. I'm, I'm assuming you enjoy that.
Georgi (2m 11s):
Yeah, I've been, you know, used to be only with the one with Danny Roddy, but over the last year or so, I started getting a lot, a lot of other invitations. I, I enjoy it, but Roberto, or worse, I have a day job. So that the whole thing with the biohacking is actually my hobby, which is probably why I enjoy that more. But my day job in the IT sector demands that I be at the customer side most days of the week. So I'll probably not be able to do as many as I podcast as I used to. But that's, that's fine. You know, I, I put the mesh out there and if people want to get in touch with me, they can follow my blog and, and, you know, learn
Brian (2m 47s):
More. Maybe tell people a little bit about yourself, your background. I know obviously health researcher and, and I your day jobs in it, but what, what's your true passion and what you've been studying for the last whatever, 10, 20
Georgi (2m 59s):
Years now? Yeah, more basically when I came outta college 2002, it was just right after, actually during the.com crash. So my degree was in computer science. That's probably the worst thing you could have graduated with at the time. Nobody wanted to touch people with a proverbial 10 foot pole. Everybody was doing finance, economics, whatnot. So I desperately needed a job because I'm originally from Bulgaria and after you graduate here, cuz I came from school, I was on a student visa. If you don't find a job after you graduate, you have to go back. So I just had to find something. And then I found a job as a programmer for a biochemical biomedical outfit called the National Biomedical Research Foundation, which is based out of Georgetown University, right on the campus.
Georgi (3m 41s):
That's my alma mater too. So it was perfect, you know, right outta college, could stay on campus, keep working. But the problem is it was just me and one or two other people that were doing it. The rest were biochemists, doctors, neurologists, geneticists, et cetera. So I felt kind out of place. And the other two, it guys, they didn't wanna have anything to do, to do with the, with the people they were serving, they were programming for, they just did their job and left. But, you know, I wanted to learn more. So I kept asking, okay, what can I do? You know, I, I kind of wanna participate when you guys go out of happy hour, you talk about these things that sound very interesting, but I don't understand any of them. They said, and the responsible as well if, if that's you, if, if you're doing this out of passion, in other words you just want to get the knowledge, you don't need to go to school for that.
Georgi (4m 24s):
Even back in 2002, pretty much everything was already back. It was already online. You can get the knowledge more or less for free. Right. So just, you know, they gave me a book on intro, book on biochemistry, intro book on physiology and intro book on endocrinologists. Said, read these three and then we can talk. So I read those three and then started going to the lectures and presentations and whatnot. And after about three years, so I worked for that outfit between 2000 and 2005. But after about three years it kind of clicked. So basically I was able to at least understand what they're talking about. And I had no idea what to do with this knowledge at the time, which is interesting. Well, I can explain it just like Steve Jobs used to say like, you have to, you know, life can only be understood backwards, unfortunately it has to build forwards.
Georgi (5m 5s):
So you just have to trust at the time that whatever you're doing, it may have some purpose later on in life. That's turned out to, to, to do has such a purpose for me. And then I kept studying and learning and reading PubMed because the people that I was working with, they said, look, after you acquired a basic knowledge after that, it's so all self-education, I mean we are supposed to know that we're doing it. We're supposed to be reading all these journals, we're going to all these conferences. That's how you learn new stuff. And of course doing your own experiments, unfortunately you won't be able to do that because you don't have the degrees. So you're not gonna get money from the government. And the only people who can do research are either independently wealthy, like maybe Bill Gates, I hate to mention that then, but you know, maybe like something like him, cuz he can pour a lot of money into his own ideas or the government gives you grants, but the government is not going to give you grants unless you have the degrees.
Georgi (5m 52s):
So you're stuck with the knowledge part. And I stuck with the knowledge part. And then around 2008, 2009, I was probably one of the first people that got into, started doing the low carb slash paleo kind of diet. It was just actually starting to become a hot thing in the research circles. Like the general public hadn't heard about it. I mean, of course they know about the Atkins diet and whatnot, but it's not exactly like a a So I started doing the pale, the, the paleo that went to really, really extremely low carb. And because I was an athlete in college, I wanted to stay in shape. So after college I kept, you know, the, the athletic activity, I was a rower in college. But after, after that I didn't have access to both.
Georgi (6m 33s):
So I stick to running. So similarly, endurance sport and that, that was like middle of 2008. By the end of 2008, beginning of 2008, I was in, you know, trouble basically. I couldn't sleep, I headaches, I had these weird neurological symptoms. I went to the doctor, he said, sounds like MS to me, so let's, we're gonna multiple sclerosis, let's send you for some MRIs. And then bm, I came back clean and the doctor said, I don't know what to tell you. You know, just kept like shrugging his should like, it sounds like ms, but apparently it's not because I don't know of a case where a person with MS doesn't have lesions on their, in their spine brain. So you were doing,
Brian (7m 12s):
You, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but you were doing low carb for a couple years by then?
Georgi (7m 16s):
Yeah, about two years and also exhaustive exercise combined. Yeah. Okay. And then basically keeps things keep kept deteriorating until about the end of 2009. I, one night I just woke up in the middle of the night in complete terror and I took me about five minutes to realize where I was. So it was completely out of it. So I said, oh, that's definitely not a good idea. So I went back to the doctor, he said, I don't know what to tell you. It may, it sounds like it's something neurological, you can have like a, you know, chronic reactivation of a viral infection, maybe herpes or something, you know, but there's nothing I can do at this point except monitor you as you continue deteriorating and eventually gonna end up in the hospital.
Georgi (7m 57s):
And the people in the ER are usually really good at, you know, diagnosing you. So they're gonna find out what it is. But for now, I cannot tell you to go to the ER because you don't seem critical. So, you know, I was one day, and I mean about a week later I was, I don't know why I was searching, but back in Bulgaria, aspirin is a big thing. It's like everybody's taking aspirin for a, anything you can imagine. So I was looking for googling for aspirin and something about brain symptoms. And then boom, Ray Pete's article pops up, he has an article called Aspirin Brain and Cancer. So I read that article and just from the first paragraph something clicked, I thought like, damn, this guy speaks my language. He just makes perfect sense. And then immediately ran to the fridge.
Georgi (8m 37s):
Luckily I had like a, an old, like a half pint of orange juice there and just checked it and within like five minutes felt normal. I wouldn't say I was okay. I mean it looks back to previous, but I felt normal. And after that, basically I decided to that it, the combination of low carbon with exhaustive exercise, it's not a good idea, at least for me, right? Subsequently found studies that show that if you really do that for a prolonged period of time, you're going to upregulate the enzymes that produce cortisol to, to such a point that if you stop doing these things, your cortisol will not go back to baseline. And we know that elevated cortisol, it can absolutely have a on the body, I had all the symptoms of hypercortisolemia, puffy face, you know, large basically thin extremities, central obesity confirming blood tests and some on some blood tests.
Georgi (9m 24s):
My, my blood cortisol was two times higher than the upper limit. The doctor was like, ah, probably chronic stress. I'm like, well what about Cushing syndrome? No, no, no, it has to be higher than that for Cushing syndrome. So it's really, basically it, it, it shows you two things. Number one, you can be in a really bad endocrinological state and unless it meets the definition of a pathology, the doctor is going to ignore you despite the fact that it's known that even mild elevation of cortisol can, you know, cause mental health disease, like people with depression for example, have elevated cortisol, which is also non suppressible when they're given the so-called dexamethasone suppression test. But my doctor didn't see anything about this. I, I don't think I was depressed. I was more, I was, was more of an anxiety situation.
Georgi (10m 5s):
But cortisol can cause that too. Long story short, as I kind of stopped doing the exhaustive exercise and rebalanced my diet, cortisol came back in rage and over time the symptoms subsided. Am I back a hundred percent to what I used to be before? Probably not because I'm older now, but it, but I do feel to, I mean, I, I can do the same things that I used to do, be able to do before I got into the situation. So I, I consider myself more or less recovered in a lesson well learned.
Brian (10m 34s):
Yeah. And perhaps for the audience, maybe just give us brief synopsis of, you know, the Biogen viewpoint. I know I've had Danny Rodian and Jay and so they've heard it a little bit, but just a brief synopsis of of of what that is. And, and I know that's might be a mouthful, but is is as succinct as you can,
Georgi (10m 55s):
I I think I have a good analogy. So the way medicine treats your body is like a car. So basically the car is the structure of this is your body, right? And, and and the, the, the energy that your body produce from food is like the fuel in the, in the gas tank. So medicine says, I don't care what kind of fuel you put in the gas tank, as long as the car can burn it, the car will keep going and it will don't go just as fine, you know, with minor differences maybe, but like you'll go just as well. And it, and if you put bad fuel into your car, it's not going to break your windshield, it's not going to give you a flat tire, it's not going to break your engine, right? That analogy may work for the car, but definitely does not work for the body. It turns out that the, the amount of energy produced and the efficiency, cuz there are several different ways to produce energy in the body.
Georgi (11m 38s):
The efficiency with the, with which the energy is being produced is absolutely vital to everything that the body does and also the way the body is structurally. So in other words, if I put the bad type of fuel into the car or I force the car to burn the fuel in a, in a, in a, a, in a, in a manner that's not very healthy, then my car will start break down. Actually structurally, initially, functionally the car steps will start sputtering. I'll not be running as fast as, you know, as normally would and literally running to try to run. But over time, if you continue insisting on doing the exact same things, which is usually through stress, the car will start literally breaking down. And we're seeing that in a lot of, in a lot of people that are trying to a adopt the same lifestyle as I did. I'm not, I'm not the only one unique.
Georgi (12m 19s):
And there's plenty of evidence showing that the analogy in the, the, the car analogy that medicine uses currently for your body does not, is really, is not, is incomplete. And that's probably why medicine is, is not that good at, at curing things because if you go to a doctor with a problem first they'll look at the structure. I mean, they'll, they'll run through a battery of tests, imaging studies, whatnot. If nothing is wrong structurally, then they'll declare that there's a functional problem and then that's separate. There's nothing they can do about that. They may send you to a so-called functional specialist doctor, right? But, but to them you are basically, you are, okay, maybe it's all in your head, but the biology you says like structure and function cannot be separated. If you have a functional problem currently, and this extends through time is going to eventually become a structural problem.
Georgi (12m 60s):
If you have a structural problem, you'll result in a functional problem. Because let's say if you have like a, like a, you know, under-regulated or regulated enzyme somewhere along the chain with a production of energy, clearly you will not be producing energy as you are supposed to. And this lack of energy, at least producing it through suboptimal means, is going to result in a structural problem. So energy is the functional part, and body structure basically is the structural part. That's how even medicine use things, but they think these things are separate. One does not affect the other. Accept the structure, affects the function, but not the other way around. And if they check your structure, you're fine, then there may be a functional problem. But they're saying, we don't know what's causing it. It's not structure, it's not our specialty, go away or come back when you're feeling worse.
Georgi (13m 41s):
Or go's just functional medicine doctor, the biogenic view says you have to worry about energy at every step of the cycle. Everything is affected by energy. We are energy, right? Ultimately even through is trans formula matter is nothing but concentrate energy can be, it can inter convert. And really at the very end of it, it's all energy, energy flowing through system which creates structure. And if the energy doesn't flow as, as intensely as it's supposed to or flows through like a suboptimal channels, they going to get crooked structure. And in the case of the human body, pathological situations including structural such as organ failures, organ disease, right? Alzheimer's disease, things that medicine things are structural and potentially caused by genetic issues, but by energetic view says for hundred years we've been searching for all of these gene disease causing genes.
Georgi (14m 29s):
Believe me, trillions of dollars have been thrown into this trying to find a gene that cause the disease because it's so profitable. If a company finds a, a gene that cause a disease, you know, they can develop a drug around it, right? Maybe activate it or silence it depending on how exactly what the gene does, right? And the only thing that we have close to that is the BRCA genes. But the BRCA genes, despite the fact that medicine tells you they're kind of, they'll almost guarantee that a woman will get breast cancer if she expresses those BR genes. It turns out that even that claim is not true. Now there, there there've been studies with multiple women who had the BRCA genes did not get the breast cut off, right? Because that's usually the treatment. If you get the, if you have the BRCA gene, they'll say you will get breast cancer at some point in your lifetime. You have to cut off the breast Now to prevent this from happening, turns out double whammy, not only that, cutting the breast off does not prevent from getting cancer.
Georgi (15m 17s):
It can develop even without the presence of the memory clan. But also just having that BR gene does not guarantee that you're going to get the cancer later on. So it turns out that a genetic idea, which is really the structural idea, causing the functional problems always a hundred percent of the time is not true. And a bje says it's actually, it probably all starts with a functional problem, which is fairly benign initially by saying like, you are stressed as whenever you're stressed, you know, this, this, this extensive apparatus that converts energy to food, to energy gets, gets sort of like, you know, like a, like a stick in the wheel. It starts to, to work less efficiently and you'll still produce the energy, but through other means that are not as beneficial for you.
Georgi (15m 58s):
And if this extends throughout time, you essentially, the body adapts and you're sending signal to the body that something's off. And the body will say, well if that's the way, the only way I can produce energy, I'm gonna stick with it right? Until you, until something in the environment shows me the way back to the optimal situation and I can go back to producing the energy the way I want to. And the biology says, every disease that we know of, whether it's acute or chronic, ultimately stems from this, you know, initially benign looking, benign, you know, interference with a so-called process of oxidative phosphor relation, which is fully oxidizing, primarily glucose to carbon dioxide and water and a t p if, if you interfere with that process and any any of the steps, and if you do this for long enough, you eventually gonna get a problem.
Georgi (16m 44s):
Several Nobel laureates actually stated this openly in regards to cancer auto Warburg a Nobel Prize winner. And, and you know, the, he gave his name to the, from a so-called Warberg effect, he was of the opinion that cancer is a metabolic disease. A metabolic disease is just another name for a functional disease. In other words, for a bioenergy disease, your cancer develops when something in the body interferes with the production of energy and cancer is like a desperate attempt to correct that. But because the energy that's being produced in the body is not produced in a proper manner, cancer cannot differentiate back into normal tissue. So cancer is not an attempt to kill you. Cancer is an attempt to repair a problem under very suboptimal circumstances.
Georgi (17m 25s):
And auto warburg's was, up until he died, was of the opinion, if you can restore, if you can remove this oxidative phosphorylation defect as you call that, then then you should be able to cure cancer. He thought that there's something in the cell that goes wrong that basically causes this metabolic deficiency to occur. Modern medicine took this and said, oh, of course there is it's genetic mutations as we are aging, as we're living longer, there's a higher chance if a cancerous mutations happen somewhere and once the mutation develops, there's no correcting it, it's irreversible, you just have to kill the cancer cell auto. Warburg never bought into that. He always thought that that that it, it will be possible, it should be possible for cancer cells to revert back to normal. And to his credit, there are published cases many times of so-called spontaneous regression of cancer.
Georgi (18m 10s):
Nobody knows how it happens and why it happens, but it is known, proven that cancer cells can go back to normal how and why medicine doesn't like to speak about it. They like to.
Brian (18m 23s):
Now, Georgie, I gotta interrupt you here. I've listened to a lot of podcasts. You've a ton of information, you talk really fast, so I'm gonna try, if I try to slow you down though. Oh
Georgi (18m 31s):
Sure. Okay. No, no, no problem. Apologize. Not,
Brian (18m 33s):
Not everyone can retain, like you can retain. I don't know how you do it, but either way. Okay, so let's, let's touch a little bit on like insulin resistance. I mean I've had, you know, Dr. Ben Beakman and I've had, you know, Jason Fung and a lot of times insulin is sort of the demonized high chronic insulin is sort of the, the scapegoat in all of this. What, what would you say the true cause of insulin resistance is?
Georgi (19m 5s):
Oh, I, I would say accumulation of fat and then higher in baseline lipolysis. So, but both need to be present at the same time. There, I think there's, I I'm blanking on the, there's like a special tribe in the Caribbean actually. There's a subgroup of people living in the Caribbean and they're extremely obese, but they never developed diabetes and cardiovascular disease. And for a long time the thought was that of course the magical gene is there, they're somehow protected by nature. They have this genes protecting because these people should have type two diabetes. They're all obesity to the level where this should be causing insulin resistance. And worse yet, they don't. And when they finally did some measurements of, they've been doing measurements for a long time, but because they were looking for genes they didn't look into, they didn't pay attention to the real simple stuff, which usually turns out to be correct, they noticed that they have a much lower level of so-called free fatty acids in the blood.
Georgi (19m 53s):
And it's the free fatty, free fatty acids in the blood that actually compete with glucose for oxidation through the so-called Randall cycle. And whenever, whenever you have over relative overabundance of fatty acids versus the glucose, then the body will oxidize the fatty acids except other than the glucose. And this glucose basically starts to accumulate. And the only couple of things that can happen with it, one, because it blood glucose levels are elevated, insulin rises because insulin says, oh my god, high blood glucose, I need to lower it. So insulin rises, right? But, but because the glucose cannot be metabolized, then basically the other two things that can happen is it gets wasted into lactic acid because the, the, the so-called path of glucose oxidation is blocked or at least inhibited by the chi oxidation of fats, number one.
Georgi (20m 41s):
Number two, it can get converted to fats to the process of fatty acid syntase, which insulin activates. So really that's, that's what happens when you have an overabundance of fat in your tissues and also in your bloodstream critically because it needs to be distributed in, in order to affect the entire body. Then whatever glucose you consume, it's not going to get properly metabolized. So get converted instead into lactic acid and fat. And this is actually a very common thing among people with type two diabetes. If you look in, if you take up, you know, a blood sample, you'll see that they have higher than than normal levels of lactic acid. They ha they ha they have higher levels of triglycerides, which is what happens when you over consume sugar that cannot be metabolized properly, right?
Georgi (21m 22s):
And they also have higher levels of free fatty acids in the blood. There is a drug which is a derivative of vitamin b3. It's called a a CPI mos, A C I P I M O X. And basically it works just the same way as vitamin b3. And what this drug does is lowers excessive lipolysis in the body. What is ex what lipolysis shredding of the fatty tissue to supply fatty acids to all the peripheral organs to metabolize for energy, right? So this means that if you lower lipolysis, the levels of free fatty acids in the blood will decline. And it, it's been shown multiple times that this drug given to diabetics or even normal people drastically lowers the levels of their so-called hyperlipidemia, high levels of free fatty acids, high levels of triglycerides, high levels of L D L and even H D L, right?
Georgi (22m 13s):
And also lowers the blood glucose levels. So we, I think to me this is the most direct evidence that there is nothing wrong in the structure of a diabetic person in the inside of the cell. It's the fact that they're oversupplying one type of the micronutrient. Cuz we can only oxidize glucose or fats even protein before it gets oxidized. This gets converted to glucose. So really the two macronutrients are fatty acids and glucose. So by oversupplying, one of the macronutrients, whether through diet, because initially has to start with that, right? But eventually when you accumulate more fat and then you have higher than level baseline lip sis, then you're crowding out the glucose from the metabolic machinery and it cannot get metabolized. And that's what really, that's what presents because this elevated glucose, since you cannot get metabolized, it results in higher than higher amounts of insulin.
Georgi (22m 58s):
And that's type diabetes. Basically you're getting hyperinsulinemia, hyper hyperglycemia and hyperlipidemia. And these three together, I think depending on how high your glucose is, can actually officially define type two diabetes. Now if this problem gets really extreme, if you really, really oversupply fatty acids, then you can get into something called diabetic ketoacidosis for which the treatment we can be lito, I think it's like 20% laity unless admittedly treated. And by the way, it's always accompanied with also lactic acidosis type type B I think it's called type B lactic acidosis, also CENIC cancer patients, which kind of gives you a bit of suggestions, a parallel between type two diabetes and cancer.
Georgi (23m 38s):
We can talk about this later. But anyway, so when, when people go to the hospital, what is the treatment for them? Very high doses of intravenous insulin. Why? Because insulin also suppresses lipolysis. And, but to answer your question, how these, these people get to that point, they accumulated a lot of fat and to even minor stress, obese people tend to shred a lot of fat into the blustery because they have an excess of it. And as long as this is the case, then basically they will have a problem with metabolizing glucoses. Which is why one of the protocols for curing type two diabetes is you put people on a really extended fast diet, they get, they lose all of their excess fatty stores. And basically after that these people are cured.
Georgi (24m 20s):
Unfortunately, when you put people through extremely growing fast, it also tends to lower their baseline metabolic rate. So once they stop the fast, even though they're cur of the type two diabetes, then basically if they go back to their normal diet of what they used to eat before, even less than, you know, let's say half than that, they will pack the pounds again because now their metabolic rate is lowered. So the key is can we do something to lose the excess fat without lowering the metabolic rate? And the answer is yes, in, in fact, elite athletes almost never fast. They use drugs such as d nitro phenol, a drug that dramatically raised the metabolic rate, unfortunately can kill you if you're not careful because it can cause overheating and you know, kill, kill the brain through that.
Georgi (25m 1s):
Or steroids, also known as anabolic androgenic steroids. But in, at their core, if you look at what these steroids do, they're basically lowering lipolysis, blocking the effects of excessive cortisol and estrogen. And through that, over time, they allow you basically to, and also raise your metabolic rate. They, they increase the conversion of the thyroid pro hormone T4 into t3. So they're kind of raising your meta, your metabolic rate without you having to do the exercise, which is really what exercise does. You're doing exercise to temporarily raise the metabolic rate and burn more calories than you would unfortunately when it's done through stress, especially if it's combined with fasting. As I found out myself, you're getting into a situation where the metabolic rate drastically declines.
Georgi (25m 41s):
And when you stop this, what you're doing, even if you lost all of the excess weight, then you have to stay at a very, very much lower baseline level of calories. Otherwise you're gonna pack up, pack the pounds up on again, and it may actually be a worse situation than before. Great example is the show Biggest Loser. These people that are, that basically went on the weight really ridiculous amount, 300, 400 pounds they got put through this grueling diet and exercise, they lost, many of them lost their, you know, all their weight, they felt great, but as soon as they quit, the show went back to their normal lifestyle. A lot of them actually went on so-called healthy diets, but they were eating more calories than the metabolic rate was actually accommodating at the time. And guess what, within six months they were right back where six to 12 months.
Georgi (26m 23s):
Not only that, they started overshooting their weight because now even at the lower amount of the eating with their lower metabolic rate, they actually could not burn even those fewer calories that they're now eating.
Brian (26m 35s):
All right, so the key is, so your, your main thought around cause of insulin resistance, chronic stress and high poof and high, high fat, high poof. Exactly,
Georgi (26m 47s):
Exactly. Yeah, because the high fat is when you get into your tissues, if it stays in your tissues, it's kind of okay, right? If it's poof, it's a problem. It's a problem because even in your, in a fatty tissues, it's under, it can get under attack by the so-called reactive oxygen species that are always present because of met metabolism. And by the way, proof itself when it's get metabolized, can actually block the metabolic pathways and cause a lot of these. So it's a self-feeding cycle of creating an active oxygen species. Unfortunately, these react oxygen species can actually attack the, the proof of molecule and oxidize it and create a number of toxic aldehydes, many of which are directly carcinogenic. So if you're gonna be, so usually the, the we get, and by the way, a lot of them are now directly implicated in diabetes and insulin resistance and cancer and whatnot.
Georgi (27m 33s):
So again, eating sub suboptimal diet, which means high in pfa. And also let's say if you're eating high di, high fat diet, not in pfa, if this fat stays in your, in your fat tissues, you're, you're okay. But even a minor stress raises your cortisone adrenaline and makes this fat get into the bloodstream. And as long as fat outcompete the glucose is, is is the metabolic fuel, then you will not be able to metabolize the glucose. You will be easily resistant.
Brian (27m 59s):
Georgi (27m 60s):
I can give a great example. Hibernating bears, they eat tremendously to pack up on the pounds before they go into hibernation. And then studies, they they do, they did blood tests, the bears were perfectly healthy de despite being actually really what they would consider overweight. I don't know what's an overweight for a bear, but I guess weighing 2000 pounds is probably, and they, they do look like, like, you know, one big chunk is, so after these bears going into hi into hibernation, researchers will get into their den and periodically withdrawal blood and notice that while the bear is in hibernation, because the bear is not eating anything, it's actually metabolizing the fat is the fattest in the fatty tissue. The bears met all the requirements for type two diabetes.
Georgi (28m 40s):
They're higher keto levels, higher blood glucose, higher insulin, higher free fatty acids, everything you name it. And then discontinued while the bear was hibernating and notice the bear was fasting. So it wasn't actually, it wasn't stressed. Imagine how much worse you'll be if it was stressed. Maybe that's why they sleep because to, you know, to basically limit the, the damage that it's already been done by the fasting. And when they woke up and started re-feeding, all of these parameters went down and despite the bear started gaining weight, they actually become healthier. So it's really the combination of bad diet and bad fats, specifically combined with stress that's driving not just diabetes really, as I mentioned, you know, the cancer patients going into, when they go into the hospital, they have hyper high keto bodies, high ammonia, high glucose, you know, high lactic acid.
Georgi (29m 24s):
It sounds like an extreme case of diabetes. And in fact, untreated diabetes patients waste in the exact same way as untreated cancer patients through the process known as cachexia.
Brian (29m 34s):
So what would you say, I mean you have like, like I mentioned, let's just say Dr. Jason Funk has clinics where people are fasting, they're diabetic and they're fasting and they're, they are improving, but obviously you're to your point, they're they're wrecking their metabolisms. If they go back to like a normal eating schedule, what would you say would, what would be your way of sort of solving that puzzle? I know you said, you know, obviously avoiding chronic stress and, and hoofs and things like that. Yeah. Is it just like healing the gut, becoming better at glucose metabolism? Like what, what would you, what would your clinic be like if you know, not a fasting clinic, what would it be?
Georgi (30m 14s):
So if, if, for people that are in particularly fragile help, because some people can tolerate the fasting and do just fine, but for people that are, let's say I, I'll measure the steroids. If their d h for, for both their levels of D H E A, which is the adrenal hormone are, are good and they're output 25th percent of, of the normal range, then I think these people can, can, can withstand a decent fast. I wouldn't do a full fast though. I will do probably at, at most intera fasting. And while they're fasting, I will take plenty of vitamin E because since most of the fat storage tissue tissues will be pfa, when that gets released, all, you know, all hell breaks loose because of, of the oxidized biproducts of the S pfa and also it's normal metabolism and some of it's metabolize such as prostaglandins and lures, right?
Georgi (30m 59s):
The vitamin E can quench most of these side effects. So take some vitamin E right, take some niacinamide, which actually increases the levels of the cofactor n a d plus. And that is vital for metabolizing both fats and
Brian (31m 12s):
Glucose. Is niacinamide, is that vitamin b3?
Georgi (31m 15s):
Yes, but the, there's several forms, right? There's niacin, which is the flush version. I don't recommend that because the flushing is caused by histamine and serotonin. You don't want those released into the bus stream because it's a sign of, it can cause an inflammatory reaction. Niacine gets these things out of the s so makes the s release the histamine serotonin and that's not a good thing. In fact, some very beneficial drugs are doing the exact opposite, stimulating the uptake of serotonin histamine into the platelets. And by this actually curing depression. So not niacin but niacinamide. Okay. And there's another one recently over the last couple of years, it's a commercial product one company's pushing, it's called nicotinamide riboside.
Georgi (31m 55s):
Oh, there's a company called Chroma that's running clinical trials with it. And up until last week there was also another version called Nicotinamide mono nucleotide. However, a company just like CHD petitioned the FDA a to ban nicotinamide monocot because they claim it's a, it's an new investigative invest drug and FDA concurred. And as of yesterday, Amazon has basically yanked all nicotinamide monolo products from his website. And I think the FDA started to send letters to people saying, and saying, you can't sell this animal over the counter. I know it's a vitamin, but we think it's a drug. So we're stuck now with niacinamide or nicotinamide riban.
Georgi (32m 36s):
So three, 300 to 500 milligrams daily. I think it's a's
Brian (32m 38s):
Plenty or nice cite. So, so your clinic, you you, you'd say, you know, for an individual they can do some fasting, just intermittent, right? Like, what would you say, 12 to 16 hours, something like that, if
Georgi (32m 50s):
That. I think that's fine, that's fine. If, if, if that's the healthy individual, right? So, so, so for those, and I'll be taking those things to prevent the, the damage that the circulating fat will be
Brian (32m 59s):
Caused. So you would take vitamin e niacinamide, okay. And aspirin. And aspirin,
Georgi (33m 3s):
Okay. Yeah. Those three I think to me will be the, the triad that shouldn't negate most of the, the bad side effects of the, of the poly saturated fats. Maybe taking like, I don't know, a spoon of coconut oil. I know it's, it kind of breaks the idea of fasting, but it's not that many calories, it's just, it's several studies have demonstrated that it's the ratio of saturated fat to polyon saturated fat in the blood. That is also very important. So just by raising it a little bit, by consuming maybe like a teaspoon of coconut oil, two, three times a day, which should be at most 200 calories, it's not that much, right? That should also greatly mitigate the damage. Now for people that are fragile, and I do have a great study for that, people with cuing disease, as everybody knows that,
Brian (33m 44s):
And you, so when you say fragile mean like diabetic or
Georgi (33m 47s):
Yes, diabetic already or like if you look, and by the way, these are not not exclusive. If you look at their endocrine profile, these people have a very low level of D H E A, now it's the cortisol to D H E A ratio and it should be in favor of D H E A that actually determines it's, it has emerged as the most reliable morbidity and mortality predictor of for any age. And for, for either one of the two
Brian (34m 10s):
Gems. Do you know what the ratio should be? Cortisol of D H E A? Do you have an idea or
Georgi (34m 14s):
Depends whether it's in blood or in hair and nails. Okay. Like depending where we measure, but blood
Brian (34m 19s):
Should be, what about blood?
Georgi (34m 21s):
In blood? It should be, let's see, cortisol, cortisol to D H E A should be no more than 0.5. In other words, D H E A should outran cortisol in a factor of at least two to one.
Brian (34m 34s):
Georgi (34m 35s):
And if that's not the case, and it's usually seen on blood tests such as the cortisol being in the upper limit of the normal range, it god forbid above and D H E A below or, or like at the bottom 20%, 25% or below by the way, D H E A, this just this, just these two hormones, just this ratio can actually di reliably diagnose diabetes. Unfortunately it's, it's, it's called non-specific. In other words the cortisone to D H E A ratio is, is high. You can have diabetes, you can have cardiovascular disease, you can have cancer, Alzheimer's, et cetera. But it's a very good ratio of your vitality, right? So if that ratio is less than optimal, then I will do, I don't wanna call it chemotherapy, but I would actually use drugs instead of putting people through a grueling regimen because they are likely to get worse.
Georgi (35m 20s):
In other words, when you fast, that ratio of cortisol to D H E A is going to get skewed even further into, into favor of cortisol. And that can really havoc people's
Brian (35m 30s):
Bodies. So, so someone's fragile or you know, like you said maybe diabetic and they have not a good ratio of cortisol to D H E A. Obviously you're not gonna fast them cuz that'll just cause stress and raise, raise cortisol, right? So would it be like healing the gut, you know, perhaps like endotoxins or, or things like that?
Georgi (35m 52s):
Yes. And also, like I said, since I men, since I mentioned using the drugs, there's several clinical trials right now with drugs that are inhibiting the enzyme that synthesizes cortisol, although the enzyme is 11 beta hydroxys hydrogenous type one 11 BH SD one is the abbreviation, look it up. 11 BHS D one and then on Google and then space and then type diabetes or type obesity or type metabolic syndrome, whatever you can come up with in terms of like having the range metabolism or weight 11 beta hsb, one hsd, one inhibitor followed by the keyword. You will find plenty of studies including clinical trials with humans showing very good results, which shows you that a cortisol is actually contributing to these, to these, to this pathology.
Georgi (36m 33s):
Another study with people that had disease who have the exact same profile as type two diabetics because cortisol results in basically in high lipolysis, high storage of fat also blocks the, the metabolism of glucose blocks the synthesis of D H E A. In other words, these people, when you look at them phenotypically, they're indistinguishable from a type two diabetic, central obesity, low muscle mass, very, very lean extremities, right? And then this study found, and in in people like that, because they're, this is my example of fragile people, they don't tell them too fast. You don't tell a person with cushion disease too fast cuz cortisol will go to even motor, right? So what do they do? Well they gave them, typically they do surgery and remove the tumor that's causing the overproduction of cortisol, I forgot to say the s disease, disease of caused by tumor that produces cortisol.
Georgi (37m 23s):
So for people that don't want the surgery or are not a good candidate for whatever, maybe it's too risky, maybe the tumor's too large and whatnot. The only other option really is you're given me a drug that blocks cortisol at the receptor level. And that drug is known as U for 86. Now it's in the, in a, in a popular culture, it's known as the abortion pill, but actually it was designed cuz it, it, it can do that. But it was designed as a cordial blocker. The French company Sanofi developed it in the eighties as basically as a cordial blocker to treat CU disease. But at the time, because CU disease is rare, it's like a thing is like one and a hundred thousand cases, the marketing department went, went to the, to the drug developers and said, why did you, why did you develop this?
Georgi (38m 3s):
What are you gonna do with this? Okay, they can't sell, we're gonna sell 10 pills a year. That's nothing. What else can you do? Well I can also block the progesterone receptor. Ah, perfect. You block the progesterone receptor, you terminate pregnancy. So then they started marketing as the abortion pill and it became known as the abortion pill. But it was designed and still primarily functions is a choal blocker. And that study with women with concuss disease actually really morbidity, obese, the, the administration of IO 4 86 le led to complete resolution of all the obesity and all of the blood deranged biomarkers that these women had, including the cortisol. And over time, even the tumor shrink in, in some women even disappeared, but tumor side, it basically cured their type two diabetes.
Georgi (38m 45s):
And you led to sustained weight loss, which is really the key here because you can probably lose weight if you put yourself on a girl and die. That's, that's not, it's not a secret. The secret is keeping it off, keeping off without actually having to maintain a grueling lifestyle. And it turns out that these women were able to lose all of their excess weight without changing anything in their lifestyle, which shows you the cortisol is at the core of creating these metabolic pathologists. So yes, for the fragile people, IO 4 86 and 11 beh, s D one inhibitor. And if their doctor agrees, usually for males testosterone replacement therapy, which has also been shown. And in fact it used to be used back in the fifties and sixties as treatment for male obesity.
Georgi (39m 26s):
Central obesity males is one of the first, first reliable science of impending hypogonadism. And it's known that men become hypo with H But to this day, medicine refuses to acknowledge this results because in males the cortisol to DHA ratio is important, but also the cortisol to testosterone ratio is much more important. So if testosterone declines with h, cortisol may stay the same, but the cortisol to the testosterone ratio will rise and that directly leads to insulin resistance. Conversely, as early as the 1950s studies demonstrated in males that testosterone injections can actually completely eliminate obesity and to and type two diabetes in males. Unfortunately, testosterone is a rotable, androgen can raise estrogen as well, which is not desirable.
Georgi (40m 11s):
So there are other, there are other androgens out there, other anabolic quote unquote steroids that can achieve the same. And if your doctor is willing to do it, troph phenol is probably, probably the most direct option. It drastically increases your metabolic rate and also heat production. And you're going to be burning off these calories without making any extra effort. Unfortunately, the so-called therapeutic index, the therapeutic profile is narrow. The means the, the, the, the, the effective dosage and the toxic dosage already goes to each other. So you have to be under the monitoring of a doctor. I think clinic in Mexico do it. You go there, you say you wanna lose weight, they can put you on a DMP drool ban in the United States, but many other countries, it's not banned and it's accepted as, you know, the pill for losing weight for the, for the rich that want they can afford it.
Brian (40m 58s):
What about just for, you know, the average individual? I don't, you know, someone that's in decent shape and they're like, oh well I, you know, maybe I've done some low carb, I've done some fasting, but you know, I, I want a ways that I can sort of rev up my metabolism and you know, still, you know, obviously stay fit. What, what would be some things that you would maybe, you know, recommend?
Georgi (41m 21s):
So protein in intake should be at least one gram per kilogram of protein of body mass, actually, ideally lean body mass, not necessarily the total body mass, right? Also salt intake should not drop below, I would say a teaspoon a day, despite all the demonizing of the salt. Multiple studies have now come out and said salt intake actually has no relevance for cardiovascular disease. Actually it does if you undertake it. So, so if you eat way too much salt, the body has a way to, to get rid of it. But if you're eating too little, that can actually cause serious problems through raising of something called aldosterone, which is a hormone, which is a salt retaining hormone. So when you don't eat enough salt, the body says, oh, I need more. So even if you eat a little, I'm gonna retain all of it.
Georgi (42m 3s):
And the way it does this is hormone aldosterone, which is known to cause heart disease when it's elevated in the long run eating
Brian (42m 8s):
Salt. Okay, go ahead. Yeah, I was just gonna say, you said one teaspoon of salt that's less, less. I was gonna say that seems like a little bit, I thought you would actually say more.
Georgi (42m 18s):
Well that's on top of what's already in the food. Yeah, I'm saying like, yeah, so ba so make sure you so eat to eat to taste. But if the, if the, if it feels bland, if the, if the food feels bland and there's not enough salt in it, don't be afraid to like put a little, okay, put a little extra to taste like, I'm not saying you should be go. If you look at some of the historical intakes, basically the, the intake of salt before the second world war in the United States was actually two tablespoons, daily tablespoons, not teaspoons. That's like 12 24, 25 to 30 grams of salt daily. And if 40% of that is sodium, you can imagine how much, in fact some of the rationing for the soldiers going to the front lines was, I think it was large and sold and cigarettes.
Georgi (43m 2s):
So salt is thermogenic. That's probably why I'm, you know, probably the main one, the reason I'm mentioning it. So if, if protein is also thermogenic, so all of these things have the, have the effect of raising no metabolic rate, in other words, trying to get you to burn calories without doing this through stress, which is what the exercise will do. Also, concentric exercise lifting weight is mostly concentric but also has a very, it's a, like a has a, a strong eccentric portion as
Brian (43m 28s):
Well. And, and I've heard you mention this before and it's interesting cuz I'm in, you know, I'm in this space and I I you hear a lot about how eccentric is actually can, you know, can be beneficial to help build muscle for
Georgi (43m 40s):
Hypertrophic Yes, but not for mitochondrial pathogenesis. Okay. So that is correct, right? But you know, i I think it's people simply, I mean like both versions of correct, but because one side does not explain that, okay, you want to get, get big muscles, that's fine. Eccentric is the way to go. But if you wanna burn more calories is basically you want mi more mitochondria per cell. And the thing that burn that creates more mitochondria per cell is basically by, by doing the concent, which is contracting the muscle with a lobe and then relaxing it without a load. So what does this mean? Okay, when you're doing the b the bicep curls, I'm not recommending it about just an example, then you dropped the weight on the ground, right? And you then you pick it up, you'll
Brian (44m 18s):
Kicked, you'll be kicked out of the gym real quick.
Georgi (44m 20s):
What about the deadlift? Don't they do that often? Like they actually lift it up and then they drop it?
Brian (44m 25s):
Georgi (44m 26s):
Okay. Yes. So you can do that. Okay. And you know, so
Brian (44m 29s):
You don't like, you don't like the eccentric per se.
Georgi (44m 33s):
I, I'll keep it at a ratio of at least three to one in four of the concentric. I know it cannot be completely eliminated, right when you're doing weight, so you shouldn't become orthorexic in regards to your gym habits. You should just be mindful of what you're doing. But you can do some things that are mostly concentric to compensate, let's say doing a regular gym,
Brian (44m 50s):
Right? I think most people
Georgi (44m 51s):
Brian (44m 52s):
Some stairs. Most people enjoy doing concentric more. The eccentric i, I personally think is the most difficult. Yeah. You know, cuz you know, controlling it slow on the way down is not so easy. So people don't really like to do that anyways. So
Georgi (45m 4s):
I, I think that that one builds core strength. It's the control of the way coming down and, and a lot of people need that core strength and it's fine, it's just not necessarily good for the muscles that are doing that at the time. But if you wanna do your normal weight routine, that's not a problem. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm saying that you can add some more, mostly concentric to compensate, such as climbing stairs, pushing something heavy, like those heavy tires that football players push, right? Biking is concentric if you don't overdo it to the point where you actually start to burn fat, because also swimming is mostly concentric. Things like that. You know, basically the, so when you do climbing the stairs, you climb the stairs, but then people are like, well what about coming down the stairs?
Georgi (45m 45s):
That is eccentric. So what I, what I do personally, I go to the metro in DC
Brian (45m 50s):
I know what you do, the
Georgi (45m 51s):
Brian (45m 53s):
I heard you say that. I know. So you take the stairs, those things. Yeah, take the elevator. It's like when I, I just went, I was in Israel, we, I climbed asada, we, we, my wife and I, we, we went all, all the way up and then we took the trolley back down, so Yep, yep, yep. Okay. So
Georgi (46m 10s):
We got plenty of things. Okay. Protein, sugar, I'm sorry, sodium
Brian (46m 14s):
Protein salt, right? Yeah, sodium
Georgi (46m 15s):
Sugar in a ratio of, to protein of at least two, one, probably not more initially if you're trying to lose
Brian (46m 20s):
Weight. So when you say sugar, best forms through like fruit or like
Georgi (46m 28s):
Ideally fruit and honey, multiple studies is shown that, that if you consume honey it does not result in hyperglycemia. Even in insulin resistant people. I don't know what it does and how it does it. It's gotta be something in the honey that's there. My guess is the, is the polyols and there's probably some steroids in the honey that we don't yet know about, but honey seems to be perfectly fine for diabetic, even for diabetic people. Fruit, right? Fruit is great and if you have to eat starches, just make sure that they're well, well cooked starches and let's say potatoes, at least something that I, that I would go for because they also contain keto acids, which not only have a muscle building effect because they combine with ammonia in the body to form amino acids de novo, but also have like a, like an insulin sparing effect as well.
Georgi (47m 12s):
So when you're consuming potatoes, even though they're pure starch and you should be raising your blood glucose levels as much as say the same amount of white rice. Multiple studies have shown that potatoes that don't actually do that. And there's some guesses, potatoes are high potassium, about 80% of the insulin of the glucose disposal apparently is uto potassium not to insulin. It's been on since the sixties. So
Brian (47m 35s):
When you cook the starches, are you cooking them in saturated fat? Yes. Is
Georgi (47m 39s):
That butter is great, like coconut oil is great, you know, beef towel is great and if you want mo I've ready been experimented with, with an oil called moringa oil, which even though is a seed oil is actually has almost 0% poly on saturated effects. Remarkable oil, moringga oil. Look it up. Okay. Margo oil. And it's, you can get it refined so it doesn't, cuz it like all, all, all seed oils, if you get it unrefined, it's got this very strong nutty taste. So depends whether you like it or not.
Brian (48m 10s):
Do you recommend, you know, that, let's just say that pretty healthy individual, like the, the things we're talking about to eat every, you know, do, do you recommend if they wanna do a little bit of fasting, that's fine or should they be, you know, eating every four hours or what do, what are your thoughts on that? Depends
Georgi (48m 26s):
On the fragility. I would really have to do the, I mean, I would recommend doing the hormonal profile if your, if your hormones are okay, you can handle one meal a day and then skip two, I don't think that would be that much of a problem. But if you are basically, if you're at the point where you, where you're basically watching your meals and you're still gaining weight and you're doing all these things that the doctor is saying and you exercise it, but you keep expanding, especially if you're retaining water, that's already a sign that cortisone, estrogen, estrogen are probably much higher than, than optimal. And then stressing yourself further is not going to improve things, in my opinion.
Brian (48m 56s):
Georgi (48m 57s):
So, so the, the fat, just as we mentioned in initially try to avoid pollen security fats as much as possible. Those are the seed oils with the exception, notable exception of moringga oil. And then all oil is good. I just wouldn't over c it's about 10 to 12% only fat. But having a tablespoon, you know, three times a day with the salad is, is fine. I don't think it's, it's a problem. And then butter, you know, beef ta sheep fat if you, if you can get it. Do
Brian (49m 25s):
You, do you, do you eat like a carrot a day?
Georgi (49m 28s):
I eat a carrot salad. Shredded carrot a day is great. What
Brian (49m 31s):
About just eating a carrot normal? You, you, is it, would that be beneficial for the gut? Okay.
Georgi (49m 36s):
Yes. It's still beneficial. The, the shredding increases, its basically its surface area, so it acts like charcoal. You know, the reason charcoal is so good at absorbing is because it's got these, the really, really tiny particles and if you add up their, their surface area, it, it's basically apparently like the equivalent of a football field in a single capsule. So the more you shred the carrot, the more you increase its surface rate. And then when you chew it up, you usually make it into this mush and it doesn't have as much of a surface area as the, as the shred one. Either way, whatever makes you feel. But insoluble, insoluble fiber is really the key here because it, it basically binds a lot of the endotoxin that is produced in your gut. And also a lot of the, the root vegetables that are, that we're consuming, Caribbean, one of them, turnip is another, a very good one.
Georgi (50m 18s):
Brian (50m 19s):
They live in the world. I'm sorry, what did you say? Which?
Georgi (50m 20s):
Brian (50m 22s):
Oh, turnip. I thought you said turmeric. I have no,
Georgi (50m 24s):
No, no. Oh, turmeric is also very good. Another root, another root thing. And it, it's got this actually Corin that is in the turmeric and the ginger, which is in ginger, which is also a root. These things apparently developed evolutionary to protect the root from a number of different bacteria. And fungi. Fungi, which we have in our gut as well. So they actually have a direct antibacterial and antifungal effect, aside from their insoluble fiber effect, which is to kind of clean the gut out from the endotoxin. So really keeping the gut clean, keeping the microbiome under control, keeping the endotoxin production and absorption under control and just keeping bio bowel transit as short as possible to the point where, you know, you should be absorbing the nutrients.
Georgi (51m 9s):
But anything after, after that is basically exposing you to this. Now decay food, right? So Biore, it should be, you should be going to the bathroom ideally at least once a day. Once a day. Yeah, there's some, there's some variations of that with aging that, that frequency declines. And there's some studies suggestions that increasing their frequency to laxatives actually has very good, very good effects on insulin resistance, on brain health, on reproductive system. Some studies suggests good effective Alzheimer's disease, which shows you that whatever's happening in your gut outside of the digestion is probably not good for your health.
Georgi (51m 51s):
So after you absorb the foods and, and you process them and get whatever you need to get out of them, they should be, they should be going out of you as soon as
Brian (51m 58s):
Possible. Now I've heard you talk about this with a few in, on a few interviews regarding muscle meats and you wanna sort of balance that out with collagen, sort of a one-to-one ratio because maybe, perhaps because the, the three amino acids that you wanna sort of keep an eye on, that's what tryptophan,
Georgi (52m 14s):
Cine mein and tryptophan. Tryptophan is the only one that is directly carcinogenic. And probably one of the reasons why, if you look at tryptophan contents of various foods, that's the, that's the rarest amino acid in nature. Not many organisms tolerated. That's probably why Meine is a meth donor and also directly suppressive to the thyroid. A a study with humans demonstrated if you drop metin intake to two milligrams per kilogram daily, which means for a 200 pound person just to make it easy, that's 200, that's 200 milligrams total of meine daily. So normal, we consume several grams. So this means drastically lowering metin intake reversed obesity and diabetes.
Georgi (52m 56s):
It was a human study. So plenty of metin in the, in the muscle mission. Also, unfortunately, plenty of met in many of the grains. One reason, another reason not to overdo the grains. On the grains.
Brian (53m 7s):
Grains, grains. So for someone that's having a, like i for example, like ribeye, like, is, is, is there a decent amount of collagen in there or would I have to probably take something?
Georgi (53m 18s):
Ribeyes fine file is the worst. I know, it's like
Brian (53m 21s):
A lot of people, my wife, my wife likes filet. She's not gonna like to hear that.
Georgi (53m 25s):
What about skirt steak? Skirt steak I think is really good. It's very tough, but also it's got the most amount of collagen. And ideally, actually, you know what, if you don't want to deal with any of that burgers, because all of the burger product producers, they, they try to keep the amount, ironically of the amount of meat inside a burger to as low as possible. They're throwing all kinds of other stuff in there. Some of it doesn't sound very appetizing, but a lot of it's collagen,
Brian (53m 49s):
Right? Well I think ground meat's a great option. First of all, it's less expensive and we get like, yeah, we get ground meat all the time from force and nature, which is a really, they, you know, they, they put organ meats and that, that was my other thing is, you know, organ meats are the, you know, testicles, heart, kidney,
Georgi (54m 6s):
Liver, liver, kidneys. Very good. What about
Brian (54m 8s):
Desiccated? What about desiccated thyroid as a supplement? Is that something like, I know, I know you talk about, okay,
Georgi (54m 14s):
I think it's great if you can get the chicken or Turkey necks from the butcher that have not have had their thyroid removed. Used to be the case that it, that it was always there, but now then they wisen up and now they actually, some of the butchers are removing the thyroid and selling it separately to all of these companies that are selling these products. But if you go to the butcher and say, Hey listen, I need 20 chicken or Turkey necks or duck necks with a thyroid's still in there and you know, the butcher, he, he or she should be able to accommodate you and it makes for a great soup, very, very metabolic stimulating soup drink just a cup of it. Fish head soup is another one. You can go to a, like a east, southeast Asian restaurant. They, they, they, I think they love their, they do a lot of fish head dishes.
Georgi (54m 55s):
I don't, some of them are fermented, I don't particularly like, but, but the fish head soup is, is great. And actually I can sense the thyroid because it's, it's raising my temperature.
Brian (55m 4s):
Do you measure your temp and pulse and Yeah,
Georgi (55m 8s):
Not every day because, because simply because I kind of like lose, I mean, I've gotten to a point where I can feel when something is is off right and I need to do something about it. So if I feel fine in the morning, I don't feel the need to do it. And I think that's actually a pretty good gauge. If you're having a health problems and you start doing something about it and you eventually you start losing interest, you're probably on the right track because if you're not, the problem is gonna keep persisting, you will keep it into your mind. So if you get to the point where you're basically like, okay, you know, I understand, you know, with aging we're gonna have more problems, but by and large I'm feeling fine. But then on certain mornings or certain evenings or something's going on, you have a stressful situation and work at home, you feel like you're, like, you're getting jittery, you're, you're cold extremity sign of basically stress hormone almost released, right?
Georgi (55m 52s):
Then you need, probably need to do something about it. So what I do, maybe twice a week I would measure underarm temperature and I measure pulses as well. And in the morning I would like the underarm temperature to be at least 97 degrees before eating and the pulse to be 75 or above. And after eating, I would like to see the post go above 85 and the temperatures to go above 98 or 98 or above.
Brian (56m 16s):
Okay. Yeah, I talked a little bit about that with Danny. And then what about, you know, thermo, I know you've talked about this thermodynamics, sort of this calories in, calories out model that people, you know, there's a lot of people in the, in the health industry that just talk about, oh, if you're in a slight calorie deficit, you know, everything will work out. But is that technically gonna just slower your metabolic rate
Georgi (56m 42s):
Depending on, on really what you're cutting? Like if you cut protein, you know, in favor of let's say fat, and also you lower the carbs, then I think you, you will lower your metabolic, right? Because the, the thermogenic, basically the, the protein and the carbs are, are, are more thermogenic than the fat is depends on the fat. Of course the proofs are the worst because the did directly lower your core temperature. It's multiple studies have shown the hibernating animals, especially the rodents before they go into toper, there's blood levels of PFA drastically rise. And several studies have shown that it can actually in use toor in animals if you inject them like with a very large dose of poly saturated fats, the more unsaturated quote unquote the better for causing the toper and it's not a good causing
Brian (57m 25s):
What? Causing what? I'm sorry.
Georgi (57m 26s):
Brian (57m 27s):
Toper. What's that? What's torpor?
Georgi (57m 30s):
It's basically like slumber, like what the bears go into
Brian (57m 32s):
Hibernation. Oh, sleep. Sleep, yeah.
Georgi (57m 34s):
Okay. But not a good sleep. Not like the restaurant is sleep. It's more like coma, semi-comatose.
Brian (57m 39s):
Okay, so, so calories in, calories out, like obviously you wanna prioritize protein, high thermic effect and carbs and keep an eye on on fats and if you're gonna have fats, prioritize saturated fats, obviously. Yep. Okay.
Georgi (57m 55s):
And, and here's the thing. The calories, calcium versus calories up. If you are like, let's say you're overdoing the carbohydrates, several studies already came out showing in animals and now in humans that if you, if you keep the, the, the fat intake at less than 20%, which unfortunate not many people do, then you can over-indulge on carbs as much as you want and you're probably not going to be able to put more extra weight. Really the de novo synthesis of fats from carbs only kicks in after you consume about pound of extra carbs than on top of what you're already eating, right? So it's so, but, but the fats is not like that. So the fats, the more fats you consume, the easier you will get fat. If you over consume what you're basically capable of of currently metabolizing, they directly contribute to your fat storage.
Georgi (58m 41s):
Now if you are initially on a very high PFA diet and you accumulate tremendous amount of people, is there some benefit to eating a a ton of saturated fat even though you may get slightly fatter simply because you're gonna rebalance tissues a little bit probably. But I think in this situation you already, so the surgery sort is screwed up that your least the list of your worries that you'll be getting slightly a little bit heavier, the much bigger issues that all these pofu that's in your body is causing you to really go rin it directly as, as it sits there in your tissues.
Brian (59m 11s):
What's the best way to get the PFA out?
Georgi (59m 14s):
I would say because there's always some level of baseline lip sis by taking E, even if you're taking smide vitamin e aspirin, all of them have anti lip effects. They're actually only blocking the excessive lip, the one that's stimulated by stress at rest because the muscles prefer to burn fat. So another reason to do the concent design is to build muscle mass, right? And the mitochondria, there's always some baseline lip sis going on. That one is okay and over time, basically whatever the, so build muscle mass in order to be able to oxidize the surgical circular fats. And if that's not enough then the liver is usually able to gluconate and or sulfate any remaining fats that the muscles cannot oxidize or the organs and then make these more water soluble.
Georgi (59m 59s):
So you're going to PE them out. But if the liver is not in a very good situation, then all this extra fats floating around unmetabolized it's going to, especially if it's PFA, is going to actually damage the liver. Non-alcoholic fat liver disease is now known to be caused by oversupply of specifically poly saturated through liver that exceeds ability to oxidize them, number one, and to glu sulfate for excretion. So if you take drugs that actually, and on supplements that prevent the peroxidation of these labs, something as simple as vitamin E two human studies just came out showing that vitamin E in doses of about 600 to 800 units daily, which is high but not that high. I think the r d is 400 units by the M D A was actually able to reverse both n a ffl D, which is the first stage of fatty liver disease and N nash, which is non-alcoholic static hepatitis, which is the second stage, which is more severe.
Georgi (1h 0m 52s):
Both of these reversible, but something as simple as as vitamin E.
Brian (1h 0m 56s):
So vitamin E you, you take that alongside aspirin and you take, do you take a vitamin D as well?
Georgi (1h 1m 3s):
I take vitamin D once a week. I take the vitamin E also once a week. Oh,
Brian (1h 1m 8s):
Just, just once a, just once a week.
Georgi (1h 1m 9s):
Yeah. They're, they're fat soluble. So if you, like I said, if you're not, unless you're really, your vitamin E needs are determined by two things, you poofy intake and your stress levels. So if you're gonna be fasting and or exercising, okay, now if it's only, so if you're only gonna be proof for intake, you don't have a very stressful lifestyle. Your daily needs are about two units per gram of P for consume. So if you're eating, let's say 25 grams of PFA daily, 50 units per day multiplied by seven, right? So 350, 400 units, one capsule of which is what most supplements have. One capsule, vitamin e weekly should be able to handle your pofa problems. If, if they're only coming from the diet. Now, if you're consuming more and or you're exercising and or you you're fasting, then you may need to be doing on a, on a daily basis or take high dosages weekly because it's stores in the liver and liver release in the circulation is needed.
Georgi (1h 2m 0s):
So it really depends. Whatever's more convenient for you. Like I said, I got to the point where I kind of feel when things are not going well and I need to take measures and if I, if I feel fine then my regimen is either Saturday or Sunday I take most of the supplements that I feel like I should be taking. I take pregnant alone once weekly and on a daily basis. On a daily basis I take only aspirin and mite One capsule aspirin and then one capsule of two 50 milligrams mite.
Brian (1h 2m 30s):
Okay, let's see what else? Gosh, we've hit a lot. We've hit a lot. So main things for healing the gut and it and shifting and helping, I mean that's, I think one of the things that fasting can do for some people is sort of give you gut relief, right? Sure,
Georgi (1h 2m 52s):
Sure. Yeah, yeah. You're producing a lot less endotoxin. Yeah, like actually none. Yeah.
Brian (1h 2m 57s):
And then re removing irritating foods that sort of damage the gut barrier, right?
Georgi (1h 3m 3s):
But I think most of the, the, the stuff that people have problems with the food is after they've already compromised their gut barrier, the gut is very good at handling a lot of irritating substances. I think most people recognize that when they were younger they could eat very spicy foods, really crappy foods and it will just go right through. It will not make any much of a dip. But as they get older, those same foods are starting to create much of a problem. And the reason is, and recent study demonstrated niacinamide can reverse those effects. But a reason is in a great confirmation of the biogenic theory, the reason was discovered to be declined in the energy levels produced by the epithelial cells that aligned in the gut. And, and it was directly triggered by N A D deficiency, which was the study was able to remediate by administer niacinamide, which is the precursor.
Georgi (1h 3m 47s):
And when, when it did that, the gut barrier was fully restored and then basically the, all of the inflammatory biomarkers, it was an animal model, all of the inflammatory biomarkers basically went back to normal. Which shows that the, your gut can handle its, its problems that is, it's it designed this way if it has sufficient energy, in other words, everything comes down to sufficient resources. Just like life in general, anything life throws at you when you are younger and energetic, it felt like, it felt like an adventure. When you're older and exhausted, it felt like it feels like an irritation or directly an assault.
Brian (1h 4m 18s):
Well, well said, well said, well said. Yeah. You know, cuz when I first started hearing about, you know, the biogenic viewpoint as far as, you know, stress, you know, these how compounding stressors that can wreak, hav it on your body and you know, lower thyroid and things like that. I was, you know, I'm obviously understanding it more and like for myself, I'm not a very stressed person. You know, I don't have high pfas, you know, I control what I eat and, and, and things I feel like, you know, it depends a little bit on the individual. Some people can handle certain stressors. Like, I mean, I can, I can do a cold plunge for a minute and be fine, you know, and be fine for other people.
Brian (1h 4m 60s):
They might not be able to handle it more. And, and I think in just in general, like obviously you see I've had people who come on pack who's been carnivore forever and they're, they seem to be thriving in their terms per se. Would you agree?
Georgi (1h 5m 15s):
I mean, they're doing better than the grains, I could tell you that. Yeah. So if most of the other people around them are eating, you know, really, really low high grain food, which is what the d a recommends, I think a carnivore would easily outdo these people in terms of average, average health and resistance to stress.
Brian (1h 5m 29s):
Yeah. And I have actually added in fruits after I, I mean after I've had some talks with Jay and I don't mind it. I enjoy my, my, my body can handle it. I mean fruits are easily to digestible, right? For the most part, ripe ones. Are there any fruits that people should maybe avoid?
Georgi (1h 5m 46s):
I would say the only two, the only two that I'm kind of hesitant about, but I don't completely avoid them, I don't just try to not eat 'em on a daily basis, are kiwi and bananas. And the reason is both have basically bananas, arean and serotonin. Fortunately most of serotonin is in the peel. The problem is when you peel the banana, even a very ripe one, you get these strings that remain on the banana. Not many people like go through the habit of like completely removing the actual, you know, layer, the connective layer, right? Definitely don't need the peel. I'm hoping nobody does. But you know, just the little strings of that look stringy, that that's also a problem. And also Kiwis have a decent amount of serotonin and even though medicine tells that it does not absorb when it's taken orally, several studies have already refuted that.
Georgi (1h 6m 28s):
And the same claim was applied to gaba. So they're supplements with gaab gamma aminobutyric acid on the market and medicine kept saying, no, they're, they're useless when you take it, it gets, it gets basically destroyed by the gut. Why would GABA be destroyed but not the other amino acids? So other amino acids medicine's perfectly fine with her saying that they absorb but not gaba. Of course when you take the gaba it immediately sense the effects in your brain, you know, it's absorbed cuz it has to exhort those effects that way. But anyway, so basically these two, and let's see what else I think unright fruits are, are best avoided because that sourness that's in there sometimes is due to tartaric acid and citric acid.
Georgi (1h 7m 8s):
And especially the latter if it's consumed in very large amounts, unbalanced cuz it's in the citrus foods, obviously that's the name it's coming from. But if it's consumed in other fruits where it's not balanced by the flava noises that are present, citrus juices, citric acid can actually have pro tumorogenic effect. So I wouldn't, I would try to avoid it if possible, but look, don't be orthorexic. If a semi right fruit and a decent steak is the only thing available, I would gorge up on it and not feel too guilty.
Brian (1h 7m 38s):
Excellent. And we'll just finish up and, and I know sugar's to blame for a lot of things. Like I've had Dr. Robert lust on, obviously the bio energetic viewpoint is sugar's not to blame.
Georgi (1h 7m 51s):
I mean multiple, I I can quote human studies from to the moon. Two very good ones. One of 'em is older from the 19 show that the addition of one pound of pure sugar daily to the diet of diabetics of type one diabetics drastically decreased their insulin requirements. So sugar did something that not only didn't kill these people, but somehow regenerated partially their pancreas, which is completely sharp. And second study with infertile couples where the, the the, the reason was male infertility was diagnosed. A lot of these people overweight their type two diabetes, generally in poor health, that's infertility is one of the first signs of poor health. So they were given an extra pound of candy today, I heard.
Georgi (1h 8m 33s):
And guess what, say this, yeah, after three months, 42% pregnancies. So it's, it's hard to argue with these facts and that really, I think the issue is that we need to change our definition of help. So far the definition has always been you have to, you have to be lean, but multiple studies have demonstrated there's a difference between people have, who have always been lean and people who are only remaining lean due to, due to chronic stress, which they exert on themselves through dieting and exercise. The ladder is not healthy. In fact, there's this thing called the obesity paradox, which I'm sure you may have seen. Like there's a special Wikipedia page about it showing that in a number of people, and I'm sure it's those that are actually n n normally like not naturally lean, it's better for these people to actually be overweight and even obese because they fare better.
Georgi (1h 9m 17s):
Even in acute diseases such as covid 19 or cancer, chronic cancer or diabetes or surgery, anything that, that threatens the life of these people, if they're in, if they're in their natural state, when they have more energetic resources, even though they're in the form of fat. These people, these people seem to be doing better. No, no. Arguing that the natural lean person is probably the healthiest. Because if you're naturally lean, chances are you have very good metabolic rate without counting calories. Of course, I'm not saying this just naturally, people like you were, when you were a child, you didn't think exactly what you would eat. You're gonna count your calories, right? You will just naturally lean if that's the case. And this transfers to your adulthood or more power to you. But if you gain weight and if you have to go through these grueling exercises to actually stay in the lean inside, the science shows that you will not be healthier than when you were actually overweight.
Brian (1h 10m 9s):
Yeah, I see it. And, and, and you know what, I think that, you know, our society with Instagram and every, you know, everyone's gotta have this perfect body. I think health is, is definitely more than just how you look, right? Like I talked to Danny about that, how you feel like, like you mentioned like let's just, maybe let's just finish the podcast with what markers should individuals, I, I know you mentioned cortisol, d h a, you mentioned testosterone to dl,
Georgi (1h 10m 35s):
Cortisol, testosterone, cortis,
Brian (1h 10m 37s):
Testosterone. Any, any other markers that you think individuals should right off the bat should just get measured
Georgi (1h 10m 43s):
Progesterone to Australia for females, that's a very good one in blood. That, that ratio should be at least 200 to one in favor of the progesterone. And unfortunately most of the women that have sent the results that inva the reason the email, because they have health problems, the ratio is not only less than 200 to one, sometimes it is even in favor of estrogen. And that's terrible. Basically, you, you point state of estrogen dominance and estrogen is a, is a, was admitted by that NIH was officially put into the hall of fame, quote unquote as a known human carcinogen. It, it really gets me, every single time I see a doctor on TV says, oh, a woman in menopause should be using estrogen. How? When you're now officially saying it's not probable, no human carcinogen.
Georgi (1h 11m 25s):
So what else I see? Cholesterol is actually a very good gauge of, of your overall metabolic health. Cholesterol levels rise with H and the reason is your metabolic rate declines. So the conversion of cholesterol into downstream hormones drastically declines. So cholesterol should be below, I think the 200 limit is not bad. But you know, just because you lowered your cholesterol with statins does not mess, does not mean you got healthier. Right Now if you didn't take statins but you change your diet and cholesterol decline, then chances are you're, you're, you're more on the right track. Vitamin D, very good predictor of overall health as well. It seems to be, there seems to be an optimal range between 30 and 50.
Georgi (1h 12m 5s):
Anything above 50 seems to increase the overall mortality rate non-specific. And anything below 30, just o across the board, basically mortality and morbidity. In fact, I think there was a study that showed that no type two diabetic person was ever found that, that they had opt optimal vitamin D levels. They were either in the deficiency or insufficiency range
Brian (1h 12m 27s):
Between 30 and 50 for Phin. So we got yes cholesterol, vitamin D, progesterone to estrogen ratio for women, cortisol, D h a, cortisol, testosterone,
Georgi (1h 12m 42s):
Carbon dioxide in blood is also a good measure because it's an inversely correlated to lactic acid. So usually they measure by carbonate, but it's a good surrogate. I think the range goes from something like 22 to 32
Brian (1h 12m 52s):
By carbonate it by carbonate it's called on most blood tests.
Georgi (1h 12m 55s):
Yeah. Or co2. I mean they the, I've seen it labeled differently but it measures the same thing. So basically you would want that to be over 25. That means you are conversely that that lactic acid is in the lower range of the, of the normal. You can do a direct test test for lactic acid. In fact, if you, if you do a test for ate and lactate, the piru lactate ratio is a very good biomarker of your overall ulcerative state. And it's very low in diabetics because they overproduce lactate, they under metabolize the pyruvate, which is, which is coming from glucose. And it's also, this ratio is a very good determinant for pretty much any kind of corona disease cancer patients heavily in favor of lactic acid, Alzheimer's patients, Parkinson disease patients in general, people in frailty like whether acute or chronic disease, critically ill people burn victims.
Georgi (1h 13m 43s):
Peru lactate, very good predictor of where you stand right now. And then if your doctor is willing to do some more cortisol to cortisone as another one, which is a steroid test, but it still represents the same thing because you can think of Peru as the oxidized version of lactate, which it is. So Peru to lactate gives the ratio of oxidation towards reduction and cortisol to cortisone. So cortisone is the alcohol, cortisone is the keto, again, another version, another way to measure it. But the same, these curations will probably be, if you measure them at the same time, they'll probably show the exact same value even though they're completely different biomarkers. So you want things to be in favor of the oxidation, in other words, more towards corone, more towards pyruvate, right?
Georgi (1h 14m 27s):
Things like that. And then you can also measure the glutathione also very, very famous test recently, but they only measure the reduced version of it, which is GS h. You'll need to measure the oxidized version of it known as GSS G. And the ratio of the G of the oxidized to the reduced will be the similar measure is to the Peru tutin. I think Peru lactate is the easiest test. Almost all, every lab has it. You can ask where the doctor probably not gonna mind, they're not gonna think you crazy and you know, they may even agree with what their, with what the, what the results says.
Brian (1h 15m 1s):
Lots of good stuff. Georgie, thank you for coming on. I, your supplement company, which I've checked out a few of your products. What's the link for that? I'll put that in the show notes.
Georgi (1h 15m 16s):
Oh, I, so the company's called Idea Labs.
Brian (1h 15m 19s):
Yeah, that's right.
Georgi (1h 15m 20s):
Is in labs for, for ideas, right? Yeah, so Idea labs and because we're in DC the website is Idea labs dc one word.com
Brian (1h 15m 28s):
And is one of 'em, I know they have sort of different names that what's what's, what's the one? Is there a vitamin E? Do you have a vitamin E?
Georgi (1h 15m 36s):
Yeah, Toko it. Okay. Ov it because the name the the, the original name for vitamin E was taro and Talkov is basically the vitamin E, but spelled, spelled differently. You gotta come up with a, I don't know, distinguishing name otherwise you know, say vitamin E
Brian (1h 15m 52s):
Is not, it makes you think you're like, wow, I think that's it. Okay. So to of it, is there any other ones that like you're like wow that might not be a bad thing to add to the routine. I know you know, we've talked,
Georgi (1h 16m 1s):
Oh vitamin K very important not, but vitamin K is, which is the Quin spelled with a K cuz vitamin K is a Quin similar to co enzyme Qan, it's just a
Georgi (1h 16m 43s):
And we know that this process is becoming less effective with H, which is why cholesterol rises, vitamin K was able to reverse that process. So no need to take steroids known to do testosterone replacement therapy. You may be able to do it with vitamin alone.
Brian (1h 16m 56s):
Okay, so the Q, is that something you take every week?
Georgi (1h 17m 1s):
Yes, if I feel the need I, there's basically a test you can do for a carboxylated osteocalcin. It's not a very well known test, but I do this couple of months and mine is usually in the above the, the upper limit of normal. Cause I used to take half dose of vitamin K. So I take 45 milligrams once weekly. That that's my take. And if you wanna do the minimum studies show that that one milligram daily is basically the minimum that is required to increase the carboxyl of O calcium, which is the process for taking calcium from your diet and your soft tissues and dumping in it with the bones. That's what you want. You don't want calcium to be in the soft tissues.
Georgi (1h 17m 41s):
Right? So one milligram daily was the minimum effective dosage that basically kind of kickstarted this process. And some studies show that you may not need more than five milligrams daily because beyond that they couldn't see a statistically significant increase in that process. The approved dosage in Japan as a drug is 45 milligrams daily. But keep in mind these people are already very sick and very old and the same dosage, 45 milligrams daily is now about to be approved by the 40 drug administration in the United States as a treatment for liver cancer. So, you know, interesting. I mention, just to give you a perspective, the high dosage 45 milligrams daily, not near, unless you have very serious issues. I would say one to five daily is probably where you need to be at prophylactically and at those levels it becomes, you know, very affordable supplement.
Brian (1h 18m 28s):
Yeah. And that's the Q, the vitamin K. Yeah. Alright. Ideal labs DC And I know you have a blog ha dot
Georgi (1h 18m 37s):
Ha. Yes, that's how I write online ha dot mem e And that feeds into Twitter, which is twitter.com/ha. And whatever I post on the blog goes from Twitter and it gets retweeted and or I get like, I dunno, torched the people that dislike me.
Brian (1h 18m 53s):
Well this was fun. Maybe I was just thinking maybe we'll do a fun, I know you have your podcast with you, you go on with Danny Gener generative e Energy podcast, but maybe I'll, I'll get you on Jay and Danny, maybe we'll do something fun like that, that
Georgi (1h 19m 6s):
That'd be fun. Awesome. Sounds, sounds great.
Brian (1h 19m 8s):
All right, well thanks for coming on and enjoy the rest of your day.
Georgi (1h 19m 12s):
Thanks for inviting me much. Appreciate it.
Brian (1h 19m 17s):
Thanks for listening to the Get Lean ean podcast. I understand there are millions of other podcasts out there and you've chosen to listen to mine and I appreciate that. Check out the show email@example.com for everything that was mentioned in this episode. You're free to subscribe to the podcast and share it with a friend or family member that's looking to get their body back to what it once was. Thanks again and have a great day.
Georgi Dinkov is a computer scientist with a passion for biochemistry and the ideas of Ray Peat. He has read thousands of studies and opened his own successful online supplement store. No one knows biochemistry and the metabolism quite like Georgi. We celebrate our 50th episode with an extra long, nutrition packed interview for your pleasure.
In this episode, he shares results from studies that he himself has funded in defiance of the established medical research field.
He talks about cancer, the breakdown of trust in science, dental health, Michael Phelps, Methylene Blue, Testosterone, and more.