Podcast > Episodes

episode #133

Interview with Dr. William Davis: Wheat Belly, Super Gut and Healing Yourself Through Diet!

March 24, 2022 in Podcast


This week I interviewed Cardiologist and New York Times Bestselling author of Wheat Belly, Dr. William Davis!! We discussed the issues wheat and grains are causing on your health, the problem with our current healthcare system along with: - the role Vitamin D plays in your health - how to improve your microbiome - problems with commercial probiotics and his one tip to get your body back to what it once was!

0 (1s): Coming up on the get lean, eat clean podcast. 1 (4s): People with coronary disease had an excess of small LDL particles, well research out of university of California, Berkeley Hopkins and other notable institutions, not my research. Other people's research showed that the only things that cause small LDL particles that are very oxidation prone, able to get in the wall of the artery, very adhesive the artery tissue, and lasted five to seven days rather than the normal 24 hours. The only foods that caused that wheat, grains, and sugars. So I had people take that out of their diet and that's what I write. That's when I saw people not only reduce small LDL from say 1800 nanomoles per liter to zero, but they would also lose 73 pounds type two diabetics would become non-diabetic people with high blood pressure got off three, four medications. 1 (51s): People with migraine headaches got complete relief. Skin rashes went away. In other words, it was complete transformation. 0 (1m 2s): Hello and welcome to the get lean eat clean podcast. I'm Brian grin, and I'm here to give you actionable tips to get your body back to what it once was five, 10, even 15 years ago each week. I'll give you an in-depth interview with a health expert from around the world to cut through the fluff and get you long-term sustainable results. This week I interviewed cardiologists in New York times, bestselling author wheat belly, Dr. William Davis, we discussed the issues wheat and grains are causing on your health. The problem with our current healthcare system, along with the role vitamin D plays in your health, how to improve your microbiome problems with commercial probiotics and is one tip to get your body back to what it once was. 0 (1m 46s): I really enjoyed my interview with Dr. William Davis. He has a ton of great energy, and we also get into his new book, super gut as well. So check that out, enjoy the interview and thanks so much for listening. All right. Welcome to the get lean eat clean podcast. My name is Brian grin and I have Dr. William Davis on welcome to the show. 1 (2m 9s): Thank you, Brian. Thanks for the invitation. 0 (2m 11s): Yeah, my pleasure. We were just talking to Midwestern guys, which is unique, I guess nowadays. Huh? Everyone's every while everyone's moving, going from the north to the south is what's happening. 1 (2m 24s): Yeah. It gives me perverse satisfaction though. And people in North Carolina and Texas they're complaining about the snow. 0 (2m 30s): Exactly. Yeah. They don't know what to do when it snows, you know, it's like disaster. Well, we got a lot of directions. We can go let's first touch your cardiologist. Right. And you practice for what, 25 years, And then maybe fill in the blank stare. And then you, obviously you have that best-selling book wheat belly, which, you know, I'm assuming what year was that? 1 (2m 55s): 2011. 0 (2m 57s): Okay. And then where that led you down now, you got a new book coming out called super God. And so how did you sort of go down that path? 1 (3m 6s): Well, the wheat belly experience really started with me trying to give people with coronary disease, you know, practicing as a cardiologist. But you know, when I saw my mom die of sudden cardiac death, after her successful two vessel coronary angioplasty, it, you know, that was my world. I was in the cath lab every day, morning, til night, putting in stands doing atherectomies, all that kind of stuff. My mom dies of the disease. She was in New Jersey, dies of the disease that I thought I knew something about. So it was a vivid illustration, Brian of how unsatisfactorily it really is to try to deliver a procedure for a condition like a heart attack, heart disease, coronary disease. 1 (3m 47s): I, I set up the first scanner, heart scanner and Wisconsin. This goes way back there at the time back then there were two scanners in Chicago and this was the first scanner in Western Wisconsin. And we were scanned people left and right. And you may have heard that when you start look for silent early coronary disease, it's everywhere because you're detecting it to 5, 10, 20 years before it causes heart attack or caused you to die or need a procedure. But back then, this was 25. Some years ago, something like that. Well, back then, I even, I would tell people, oh, we'll take a statin drug and high dose cut your fat, cut your saturated, fat, eat more healthy, whole grains exercise. 1 (4m 33s): Right. And you know what? So we helped publish these data if you do nothing. So when you do a heart scan, you get a coronary calcium score, normal zero, no calcium as an index of atherosclerotic plaque because calcium occupies 20% of all plaque volume. So normal scores, zero or I'm ha I'm having thousands of people scores of 300, 500,000 1500. And when you get to a thousand or so your risk of dying or heart attack is about 15% per year. So it's very high risk. So the writing's on the wall when you get these kinds of scores. So if you do nothing, which is foolhardy, it goes up 25% per year taking you closer and closer and closer to dying heart attack. 1 (5m 15s): I mean scary stuff, right? If you go on a high dose statin drug low-fat diet exercise program, aspirin, it goes up 25% per year has zero impact. And so people are freaking out my colleagues such as they are, many of them told these people, well, you need a real test. Heart capitalization, see if needed preventive, stent, or bypass, which by the way is largely malpractice. It's it's dishonest. It's it's not right. It's, it's practically malpractice, but it's done all the time. Scare people scare the heck out of them into a procedure. I Brian, I can't, I can't speak for your you're a walking time bomb. 1 (5m 59s): You've heard all these things. My colleagues like to say, well, I was unhappy with that. The experts said, well, don't repeat a scan to see if it increased. Just let them have their heart attacks and deal with it in the hospital. They actually said that Brenda actually said that why? I thought that was, I thought that sucked. I thought it was terrible. So I set out to look for better ways to deal with it. A lot of zigzagging, a lot of trial and error. One of the lessons for instance, was adding vitamin D was the first time I saw scores, not do that, but drop, drop plummet with vitamin D huge effect. But it also, it also became clear that managing cholesterol was a fool's game. It's ridiculous. It doesn't do anything or virtually nothing. 1 (6m 42s): And so I did a different kind of testing. It's called lipoprotein testing, those communists NMR, nuclear magnetic resonance. It just takes your plasma and it fractionated the proteins. And it was clear people with coronary disease had an excess of small LDL particles, well research out of university of California, Berkeley Hopkins and other notable institutions, not my research. Other people's research showed that the only things that cause small LDL particles that are very oxidation prone, able to get in the wall of the artery, very adhesive the artery tissue and lasted five to seven days rather than the normal 24 hours. The only foods that caused that wheat, grains, and sugars. So I had people take that out of their diet. 1 (7m 23s): And that's what I write. That's when I saw people not only reduce small LDL from say 1800 nanomoles per liter to zero, but they would also lose 73 pounds type two diabetics would become non-diabetic people with high blood pressure got off three, four medications. People with migraine headaches got complete relief or skin rashes went away. In other words, it was a complete transformation. And I first I thought, what the heck I do the exact opposite of what every dietician doctor and dietary guidelines says to do. And I see amazing. Well, so that experience showed me how powerful this was, but it also showed me that not everybody went a hundred percent all the way back to health. 1 (8m 10s): So like weight loss people say I lost 73 pounds, but I got 45 more to go. 0 (8m 15s): I'm stuck. 1 (8m 17s): Or my rheumatoid arthritis is much better. I'm off the biologic. You're saving me $4,000 a month. I'm off the prednisone, but I have to go back on the prox and every so often because I'm having modest flares. I asked him why and why were some like one really prominent, persistent problem was food intolerances. So I asked what the hell is going on here that does, that keeps people going back a hundred percent. And that's why I looked the microbiome and Brian, that's where I just came across some astounding kinds of new strategies. 0 (8m 49s): Yeah. We'll definitely touch on those today. I'm curious, like any of your colleagues have changed their paths because of you and the road that you went down as far as what were they were doing traditionally to what they're doing today, 1 (9m 5s): You know, in the 11 years or so, since wheat belly came out there, there is a growing number of physicians, not because they're curious about diet for the most. I'm talking about mainstream physicians, you know, functional medicine docs, naturopath, they are much better at this than mainstream MDs. Mainstream MDs tend to have their head in the sand about health. They're more concerned. I can tell you in prior years, if in practice, I was much more interested in the newest brand of stent, you know, drug eluting, stent, or the newest rotational atherectomy device or so. Right. And not interested very much in nutrition and health that unfortunately remains true for most of my colleagues there they're experts in health care. 1 (9m 49s): That is the pharmaceuticals and procedures for in healthcare that generate revenue. They're far less interested in health. And so sadly, a guy like you sits down with the doctor, you know, more about health than he does, or she does. And that's, I'm generalizing. Of course there are exceptions, but for the most part, doctors have chosen to be willfully ignorant of the things that don't generate revenue. They even say most, they say outrageous things. It's the only field I know of where the doctors, where people can deliver ignorance with absolute authority. I see it every day 0 (10m 28s): Is part of this. Just the basis of their trainings are being funded a certain way, obviously pharmaceuticals and things like that. And they're just being trained this way. And I mean, obviously, yeah. Is it their fault or is it more going back to, you know, w what is leading them to this path? 1 (10m 46s): I think we can lay blame on a number of factors. You're right. The nature of education, where there's virtually no education, nutrition, nutrients, but natural methods. It's starting to change, but it's just in its infancy still. So, you know, if I, if I show somebody how to eat better or get their vitamin D correct, or help reset their microbiome, you can't charge much for doing that. You might charge for an office office visit, but you can't charge the thousands and thousands of dollars that are paid for replacing a knee and a stent putting in an implantable defibrillator, all those kinds of things. So there tends to be a very heavy bias towards revenue generating activities. 1 (11m 30s): And it's this reality of the thing. So now maybe in a generation 20, 30 years, it'll get better. I don't think you and your, and me and your listeners should wait for that because that's what happens. It takes about 17 to 20 years for practicing physicians to catch up to the science. But I don't even think they'll even try to catch up on science. Cause I don't, you know, if you have an ophthalmologist who makes thousands of dollars every time he makes an injection into your retina, why would he stop to tell you and take a half an hour to educate you on how to preserve iHealth? They can't be bothered. It doesn't pay. And so it's the perversions of economics of the healthcare system. 1 (12m 13s): Now that's all very cynical. But so my response is screw the healthcare system don't even try because it's failed. It's a broken trillion $3 trillion system. And if we get mad and try to educate the doctor, yeah, good luck. Right. You can't. So what it means is you would be, and your listeners really have to take the reins of health yourself. You know, that's the bad news. The good news is the tools have gotten so powerful for people to take the reigns of their health themselves that you can achieve. And I need to make this, I need to emphasize this. The health we obtain Brian, doing these natural methods is not almost as good as the health. Your doctor dispenses the health we achieved using our own methods are superior, dramatically superior to what the doctor can provide because all the doctor has his pharmaceuticals and procedures. 1 (13m 3s): That's not health. 0 (13m 5s): Yeah. Actually I just interviewed Dr. Jason Fung and talk about just, you know, here's a new nephrologist and now obviously big into fasting. And a lot of times, you know, fasting, it's free. It's easy. I shouldn't say some people it's not easy, but you know, it's something that you can do. Everyone can do it and it can cause tons of healing in certain aspects. And yeah, it's, you know, it's like we have a lot at our disposal. We just have to sort of figure out what will work. And so are you saying there's, there's not a place really for stents as far as, you know, if people come and they're and they have blockage and things like that, 1 (13m 46s): You know, in the latter half of my practice, the last, maybe 7, 8, 9, 10 years or so, and my online audience I've seen, and I'm talking to a lot of people, including in my practice who are high risk. These are people who had a heart attack, survived, a heart attack, survive sudden cardiac death had three stents. When they came to me, you know, had, I won't say high cholesterol, but had lipoprotein and lipid abnormalities and put them at higher risk or that the type two diabetics, et cetera, but having a heart attack, needing a procedure, vanished, the needle was vanished to zero among people who did the program. If you said, I did have patients who say, screw you, I'm going to smoke cigarettes, eat badly. 1 (14m 31s): I eat fast food that guy's going to have a heart attack. Right. But the people who said, okay, all right, I see the rationale. Let's give it a try. I will eat no wheat Granger or sugars. So I don't provoke formation of small LDL. I'll take fish oil to reduce my VLDL and triglycerides. I'll get my vitamin D up to the ideal range. I'll get my thyroid measures in order. I'll take iodine. I'll take magnesium because I drink filtered water. There's no magnesium. I'm going to take steps to cultivate a healthy microbiome. Those people, Brian, virtually zero. I can count on two fingers of the thousands of people who are high risk ends up having any kind of cardiac event. So I can't get, can't say zero, but damn close to zero. 0 (15m 12s): Yeah, no, it makes sense. And as far as vitamin D, you know, cause obviously we're both in the Midwest, this comes up a lot. Is what's the best way to, I mean, obviously I guess what's the best way to get that. Is it through the sun? Cause I, you know, you hear different opinions 1 (15m 31s): The best way to is run naked in a tropical sun. Oh, 0 (15m 34s): Well, 1 (15m 35s): Yeah. That 0 (15m 37s): Sounds fun. 1 (15m 38s): So could you run naked in Chicago? Well, you can't do that right? Not to wear clothes. 0 (15m 43s): Yeah. I'd probably get arrested. 1 (15m 46s): We work indoors. We work at a ladder. We live in a latitude where even if it was July, it's still hard to get sufficient activation of D in the skin. And you know, like you, you like, you're like me, when you go outside. Even in the summertime, you got a lot of your surface area covered. And as we age past, particularly past age 40, you progressively lose the capacity to activate vitamin D in the skin. I actually think that the loss of the ability to activate vitamin D is nature's way of pushing us out the door because all the consequences of vitamin D deficiency, osteoporosis cancers, coronary disease, stroke, dementia, those are all the diseases of aging. So I think it's because after your reach reproductive age, you had children raise them to their reproductive age, which is 12. 1 (16m 33s): And in primitive society, you're no longer needed by, by the world, at least from a survival standpoint. And so getting sun would be nice if it worked right, but it doesn't work. These latitudes, we wear clothes, we're getting older. So the best way to get it is to take an oil-based gel cap of vitamin D. I say, oil-based joke had that you get very consistent rises and the 25 hydroxy vitamin D, if you take capsules with a powder or tablets, the absorption is so erratic as to be almost useless. I've seen this too many times. Somebody says I'm taking 10,000 units of vitamin D V3 in a tablet form. And that person's level goes from 17. 1 (17m 14s): And I am for 60 to 70, their level goes from 17 to 21, hardly, hardly worth even trying drops are okay. They're just kind of erratic in dosing. Cause it's very tough to regulate the quantity of drops. So that's another way, but it's kind of erratic, but oil based gel caps, inexpensive, widely available. And, but even then, Brian, most of my colleagues can't get it. Right. They still say bonehead things like, oh, your level is 30. You're good. Or, oh, you got your level up to 62. You can stop your di now. No, it's an ongoing need. You have to do it all the time. So that's, that's emblematic. What goes on in healthcare they're experts in health care, generating revenues, they're amateurs or entirely ignorant of issues in health, even something as crucial to your health is vitamin D. 0 (18m 6s): Yeah. And is, is that one of the main deficiencies that you're finding? I know you mentioned magnesium. Is there anything else? 1 (18m 15s): Yeah. These are the deficiencies that are very common in modern life. Not because of the diet because of modern life. So vitamin D for the reasons we said magnesium, because you know what, I'd love to go to the river or stream and drink water running over minerals, but it's full of sewage and herbicide and pesticide, right? So we have to filter a water and water filtration removes all magnesium iodine. I don't know if you know this, but we Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, the Midwest used to be called the glitter belt. Yeah. 20 to 35% of children's specially had gooders and large thyroid glands on their neck. And if your great grandmother was around and you say, Hey, great, grandma. 1 (18m 56s): Tell me about gooders. When you were a little girl, she said, Brian, you wouldn't believe what I saw when I was a little girl, my next door neighbor suffocated from her goiter, another friend down the street delivered a child with mentally mental impairment. It was a huge problem. People died of it. It was one of the largest public health problems, all throughout human history, until it was figured out there's some lack of iodine. And it was mostly internal areas of continents because all the iodines in the ocean, most of the iodine in the world is in the ocean. People who are coastal had seafood seaweed and a soil that had some iodine in it. And we eat the livestock or plants that got iodine. But those of us internally, so there was wildly out of control. 1 (19m 39s): Goiters here. Telesphere was iodine. That's why the FDA encouraged salt manufacturer like Morton salt in Chicago to add iodine, to table salt. And the back then they'd say, use more iodized salt, keep your family glitter free. And it was such a big problem. Americans listened and gave them a taste for salt. Unfortunately when the us department of health and human services came out with dietary guidelines and said, cut your fat, eat more healthy, whole grains. Coupled with peripheration of processed foods by big food. And Americans became insulin resistant, which causes sodium retention. So FDA in their great confusion said, ah, stop using all that salt, not recognizing it was the insulin resistance that was causing the problem. 1 (20m 24s): So they tell her to cut your salt. So what's coming back gliders deficiency. So there are other deficiencies, but those four are kind of a core. Virtually everybody is deficient. There are other nutrients that can be deficient, but varies by region, lifestyle, age, et cetera. 0 (20m 47s): And what prompted you? I know you mentioned a little bit, your new book, super gut regarding eliminating like bad bacteria, bringing back some good bacteria. What, what prompted you to get into that? Was it the fact that you had wheat belly and then you, and then people were still coming back with some issues? 1 (21m 6s): Yeah. I was looking for holes in the program, even though, even though in the wheat belly program, I told people, you know, let's accept, we all screwed up our microbiome because of antibiotics, herbicide, pesticide, residues, glyphosate, and Roundup life. It says herbicide, but it's also antibiotic emulsifying agents and peanut butter, ice cream and salad dressing, synthetic sweeteners like aspartame and diet. Cola's other drugs, stomach acid, blood and dry, a whole long list of things have mucked up the human microbiome. Yeah. Well, I first started out by asking what microbes have we lost? So modern humans have lost hundreds of species, mostly because of antibiotics and to some degree, those other factors, well, what are the microbes? 1 (21m 52s): We almost, all of us have lost is lactobacillus reuteri, R E U T E R I, my favorite microbe in the world named after the German microbiologist, Dr. Gerhard writer. And it was clear that reiterize very susceptible to come and antibiotics like ampicillin. So you had a urinary tract infection or a sinusitis or upper respiratory infection took ampicillin. You probably wipe that all your road. Right? And so have most other people, even though if we looked at the microbiomes of indigenous hunter gatherers, they all have road, right? If you look at the microbiome of chipmunks and squirrels and raccoons and deer and chickens, they all have rhetoric suggesting. 1 (22m 35s): It's probably very important, but we've lost it. So I've restored. I worked to restore rotor, right? But we do in a specific way, we make an unusual way of making. We call it yogurt. It's not really yogurt, but it looks and smells like yogurt, but it's extended fermentation. And we get hundreds of billions of microbes. When we perform flow cytometry on our yogurts, we get about 250, 200 60 billion counts of bacteria per half cup serving. And when people consume this yogurt, wonderful things happen. 0 (23m 8s): So is this something you sort of came about yourself? Just making it and or how did you, I guess, how did you come about making this? 1 (23m 15s): Well, it was inspired by a series of very elegant studies out of MIT. The Massachusetts Institute of technology is a re cancer research group who was looking to the anti-cancer effects of Roy, right? Because rotary is known to kill off cancer cells in the intestinal tract, but they started giving rotor right to mice. And they saw that these mice had what they described as rich luxury infer. So they studied these mice what's going on here. They found that healing time for wounds was cut by 50% that other mice got old and fat and stop mating with each other mice, I got rotary stayed slender and youthful. They stayed youthful till death Bryan. 1 (23m 57s): They stayed youthful till death males had old males at a restoration of youthful testosterone. There was preservation, mating behavior. Even in old mice, there was a reduction in appetite. There was increased interest in other mice sociability. There was the restoration of youthful muscle. So I saw all of that. Sure. So I, now some of that has been corroborated humans, not all, but some of it, I got the microbes that they used. It comes from a product called bio Gaia, gastros, G a S T R U S. It's a Swedish product. The problem with that is that they sell the product for infants, for babies to reduce colic, reduce infant-toddler regurgitation of a formula or breast milk. 1 (24m 44s): So it's really super low dose, a hundred million of each bacteria. It sounds like a lot, but it's nothing. When it comes bacteria. That's why I made yogurt. We ferment for 36 hours. Cause rotor, I doubles every three hours. They don't have sexual reproductive age double. So that's how we get these hundreds of billions and everything that was seen in the mouse experiments has. We've been seeing now in thousands of people, the way it works, this one, 0 (25m 12s): No, go ahead. I was just gonna say anybody can make this right? 1 (25m 15s): Oh yeah. Sure. Yeah. This was very well explored by the MIT group. The way rotary works is it takes up residence in the entire length of the GI tract. Little unusual sends a signal via the vagus nerve up to the brain to release oxytocin. And your listeners likely recognize oxytocin cause it's the hormone of love and empathy. And so Brian, what people tell me when they get the yogurt is I like my family better. I like my coworkers better. I find them less annoying. I understand other people's points of view better, but there's even more. The ladies go nuts because there's an explosion in dermal collagen and they start to lose their skin wrinkles within a few weeks. 1 (25m 55s): And, but the other effects also we're seeing restoration of youthful muscle and strength. I'm a chronic insomniac. I, for years, I'd be watching TV, reading books at three o'clock in the morning. I now sleep straight through nine hours. Those of us who wear these active graphic devices like Fitbit or a ring apple watch are seeing about a 20% lengthening of REM sleep. The deep restorative phase of sleep that helps you maintain mental health. Your appetite is reduced, especially for stacking. 0 (26m 29s): Can you, sorry, can you get, can you buy this anywhere? Or is this something that you have to make like, is this something that can come in? Like what about like raw milk? 1 (26m 38s): No. So raw milk has microbes in it, but different, different species. So, so this is so recalled. This is something that we're all supposed to have, right? So we're all supposed to get it from our moms at birth or through breastfeeding, but most moms have lost it because they've taken antibiotics done other things also. So you have to actually purposely get it. So all those effects, restoration, youthful muscles, smoother skin, deeper sleep preservation of bone density. Brent, I really believe restoration of this one. Microbe turns the clock back 10 or 20 years, your immune system is returned to that of a youthful person. Now that's one microbe. 1 (27m 20s): There's many, many authors you can replace and have fairly spectacular effects. 0 (27m 27s): Interestingly, I was just looking at it. I see it right now on your website. Okay. So is this something that you have that, that you've been making it for yourself and your family every day? Pretty much. Yeah. 1 (27m 37s): I consume it like every second or third day because you know, it's not like a drug retake. It it's metabolized and you appear to poop it out. It's it's a microbe. It takes up residence and stays for a few days. Now it does raise some fundamental questions. If mom gave it to you, you'd probably have it for many years or a lifetime. Why if you take it as a tablet or a yogurt, it only persists for a few days or few weeks. It's probably because we microbes are just like humans. You know, we live in families, communities, well, microbes do too. And when microbes are allowed to live in their, what are called, what the microbiology community calls, guilds or consortia, they have synergistic effects. 1 (28m 23s): So it's likely that sometime in the future, I'll say, Brian, don't just get the rotary, get rotary with these five other species. And the Roy will take up long-term residents and maybe even have bigger effects. 0 (28m 37s): Interesting. And what, what other, I guess, what other ways could you get it other than just making it? Obviously I, I noticed you can get it through supply some supplementation, right? 1 (28m 50s): So th th the supplements that are sold currently are kind of low dose. W one thing we don't know a lot about in the world of microbes is what's called dose response. You know, if this was a drug, you know, those people in the pharmaceuticals have very deep pockets and they didn't have the money to do. If you have a new drug, 0.25 milligrams, 0.5, 1.0 1.5, 2.5, 5.0 7.5. They can do these huge studies takes lower dose response. Where does dose no longer effective, toxic, et cetera. Those are very expensive. So very little data like that in the world of a microbiome. There's a little bit, one of the things we're going to do by the way is we have a mouse trial set up. 1 (29m 33s): We're going to explore. So the, the strain of rotor I, we use when you deal with microbes, you have to pay attention to strain, which is very tedious, but the best illustration is Ecolab. So your listeners have a call like you and I have Ecolab, but if you ate lettuce contaminated by Kalman, or with Ecolab, you can die. If that Ecolab so same species, e-coli different strain. So we got to pay attention to strain. Well, the strains that come from that gastros product strands of rotary, mostly it's mostly eight, the ATC, I'm sorry about this. The ATCC PTA 6, 4, 7, 5 strings, But I'll tell you, Brian, I've got seven other strains and I've made yogurt with all of them. 1 (30m 19s): Several of us have and all the same effect supply. So we're going to do a mouse study and compare five there's over a hundred strains. It's impossible to test all. It's very costly. We're going to compare five strains, and then we're going to generate a limited dose response curve. I want to know, is there a strain and a dose that is superior or better? I personally, I think it's 50 billion or more, and it's very difficult to get that and rye, that's why we make the yogurt out of it, because that's an easy way to amplify bacterial counts. 0 (30m 54s): What other things can people do to maybe take control of their gut health? Perhaps they have, they're having other issues, skin issues and things like that. But yeah. What other things can they do? I know, like you mentioned, like fermenting vegetables and things like that. 1 (31m 8s): Well, so rotary is just one example of an important microbe. We've lost. There's many others. It's, it's important to think about lactobacillus gasoline, busloads, COAG, Lanza, Faecalibacterium presidency. There's a whole bunch of them and people say, oh my God, I killed them. Don't don't worry. Think about this, like a menu at a restaurant. You don't freak out. When you see all those items, you pick and choose the dishes you want, same thing here, pick the microbes you want through the effect you want. So I, I give kind of a menu of microbes and how to get them. But the other side of this is when you've lost important microbes, unfortunately, unhealthy bacterial species have Clifford take their place and even worse in the sounding number of, of Americans. 1 (31m 54s): These unhealthy microbes have not just proliferated. They've ascended up into the 24 feet of small bowel. So that's called small intestinal, bacterial overgrowth. And I was guilty Brian up until a few years ago. Think it was a rare thing to tell people, oh, you probably don't have it all yet. It's well, the thing that changed my mind was this thing here, it's the air device, a I R E you blow into it. It talks to your smartphone and it registers how much hydrogen gas you're producing because microbes produce high, mostly unhealthy microbes produce hydrogen gas, but you don't. So you can use it to map out where bacteria are in your GI tract. 1 (32m 34s): I have no relationship with the company that the founder and inventor, Dr. Angus short and Dublin Ireland become a friend. He's a good guy, but I have been not paying these 0 (32m 44s): Things. What's the name of that? What's it called? 1 (32m 46s): It's called the air device. A I R E and the company is food marble. They just came out with a new device literally two weeks ago, two weeks ago, right? And it measures now, not just hydrogen gas off the methane gas. That's a couple hundred bucks. The re the, the formal test is done in the lab or clinic, and that's about $300 or more. Every time you do it. Cause once you dive into this world, you need to repeat testing. This thing can be used over and over and over again. You can share it with your family, probably not with your friends and coworkers. Cause it's like sharing a toothbrush. You know, you can put in your mouth. So, but when I got my hands on this, it became clear. 1 (33m 30s): So Angus short, the inventor thought it was a device just for people with irritable bowel syndrome, trying to follow a low FODMAPs diet, low fiber, low sugar diet. I got hold of. I said, Angus, I called him. I said, this is not just that this is a device that can be used to map out where bacteria are and to decipher the meaning of food intolerances like histamine containing foods, night, shades, sorbitol, fructose fruit legumes, all the things that cause all, I can't eat those. I get excessive gas, diarrhea, migraine headaches, et cetera. Well, these are forms of CBO. So th the solution is not to avoid eggplant or tomatoes or, or legumes. 1 (34m 12s): The solution is to correct the seed, the small intestine bacterial overgrowth. Now that's, that's kind of a tall order, but I tell you what I, when I started having people, thousands of them testing, I was shocked. It's the rare person who doesn't have it really, that we could, we could challenge the validity of the test, except that this is what I saw. People would test negative. It's a zero to 10, they test 10, right? And then they take steps to eradicate the CBO. And then there, they would finally lose the 40 pounds they wanted to lose, or their hemoglobin A1C finally dropped, or there, they know where it had flare ups of their seborrhea or, or also colitis. So I saw real results. 1 (34m 53s): And the H two gas that would drop to 1.2 or something like that. Now the problem with this is if you go to the doctor and say, doc, I think I have CBO. And he says, why, why tested? Or I have telltale signs like fat malabsorption fat drops in the toilet. Or I have one of the conditions that are synonymous with CBO, like restless leg syndrome, rosacea, neurodegenerative disorders, or immune disorders, fibromyalgia, a lot of irritable bowel syndrome, fatty liver. Those are all huge risk of having CBO. So the doc, the doctor typically says, oh, did you consult Dr. Google again? Brian Wright or some other knuckleheaded come in like that. 1 (35m 36s): Occasionally you'll get someone who's oh, okay. Here's a prescription for Rifaximin. The antibiotic for CBO, unfortunately, rarely ever comes with a discussion. How you got it, how to increase the efficacy because only 40 to 60% effective, how to prevent recurrences, which is the rule. So very unsatisfying experience in the conventional world, even from a gastric, most gastroenterologists, you can use herbal antibiotics. And I did that for a couple of years. And there's two regimens that actually have evidence for F for efficacy, the Candibactin regimen and the FC. Cidal this biocide there's supplements. You can buy them over the counter, like through Amazon and they do work. And there's one study comparing those things, the Rifaximin and their superior, at least in this one study. 1 (36m 21s): And they not only outperformed the Rifaximin, they were successful in refactoring failures. But you know what? I started, I asked different questions. One of the questions I asked, why, if you took a commercial probiotic, doesn't CBOE go away. So you pay a lot of money for commercial probiotic took it and you tested positive, or you have all the telltale signs or conditions. So as long as the CBO, if you took the commercial, probably like your CBO will not go away. You might reduce bloating or diarrhea a little bit, but you still got the seatbelt. So I asked different questions. I asked what, what if we chose microbes that colonize the upper GI tract that's receivables. 1 (37m 3s): And what if we chose species that produce what are called bacteria? Since these are natural antibiotics effective against the species of CBO. So I chose three, I chose a strain of lactobacillus gas, right? I chose our old friend, like the <em></em> rotary and a strain of bacillus coagulans. We co ferment them. So simultaneous fermentation, but extended fermentation. So we get big, big, big numbers of bacteria consume a half cup. And now this is very preliminary, Brent, but so far about 30 people have converted H two negative with the yogurt and you it's yogurt. You know, if I said, you're gonna have your colon removed, you'd better be damn confident. 1 (37m 44s): You got the diagnosis. Right. But if I said, try this yogurt. 0 (37m 49s): Yeah. 1 (37m 50s): The, the, the bar is low. And so based on that very limited evidence, I'm encouraging people to get at least give it a try that recipe, where do you get them? Because you have to source the microbes of different sources. So there's a little bit of cost and hassle, but you know what it's, I think it's better than taking antibiotics. Now we'll publish this evidence formerly down the road, not as yogurt as we'll have to encapsulate it to, to prove that this works, but so far cross my fingers. It seems to be working. 0 (38m 20s): And the, the yogurt recipes on your website, right. I think, is it on Undoctored or, 1 (38m 27s): Yeah, it's on my blog. It's on the, I just my wheat belly blog. I transitioned over to Dr. Davis, infant health 0 (38m 37s): Blog. You got lots of blogs. So, 1 (38m 41s): Well, you know, I had the weep, I was looking to give up the wheat belly blog cause they had a 30 million visits, but you know, this, you can't manage hundreds of websites and social you've got to. So I consolidate everything as much as I could into Dr. Davis, infinite health.com. 0 (38m 57s): Yeah. That makes sense. Wow. What, what are your opinions that I was just curious about? Like for the colon Hydroco colon therapy, do you have any thoughts around that? 1 (39m 9s): You know, a good friend of mine is Brenda Watson. She is the grandmother of Kalanick. Cleansing has been doing it for GE 20, some years, 30 years she's written several books has, has had numerous PBS shows. I just visited her last week. She and her husband, Stan were the founders of renew life, probiotic company. It was the largest probiotic company for many years, until of all OD things. Clorox bought it in 2017, but I've, I've taught, I've had long conversations with Brenda about this. And what mounts do I believe? Is it D books, a diseased, a colonic microbiome. 1 (39m 54s): In other words, you're kind of just washing the colon and you're debulking. It's like, if you have a tumor, if you debulk the tumor surgically, you have to follow it up. I'm not advocating this, but you follow it up with radiation therapy and chemotherapy. Because even though you debulk, it, you remove the bulk of it. There's still right. Microscopic, metastases and cells. You can't see same thing here. You're debulking a disease collide microbiome. What you're not doing is cleaning the small bowel. Cause you can't reach up that high because even if you cleaned all five feet of the colon, there's another 24 feet of small bowel and your colleague. So that could play a role. 1 (40m 35s): I'm not so convinced it's really a necessary step. I think you can accomplish a lot of things. Like I don't think that a fecal transplant is all that necessary. If you do the right things in the microbiome. And of course there's been some problems with, with a fecal transplant, there was a death from pre-close transplant. So it's not entirely benign prospect. 0 (40m 55s): Okay. Yeah. I was just curious. I, I haven't done that in years and then I just decided to go do it. And just as I figured, I'll ask you what other, I dunno, I mentioned, are there any other steps, obviously this, the, the, the yogurt probiotic obviously sounds really great. And are there any other steps people that could do that maybe just don't want to make something or it'll just say obviously cleaning up your diet is so key, fermenting vegetables. What else could someone do on a daily basis? 1 (41m 26s): I think one of the most important things, and I, unfortunately, there's no way to do this. Like in a pill, you know, people say, oh, just give me a pill. Well, you can't do it at bill. It means reordering your diet. It means avoiding certain things. I liken this to a backyard garden. So you and I live in a similar climate. If you wanted to have a garden in may or June, why do you do that? Well, you have a pair of maybe a 10 by 10 plot. You pick out the sticks and stones and the weeds and you plant seeds. And then you water and fertilize, the growing season. And after a couple of months, you've got a whole bunch of zucchini and cucumbers and squash and tomatoes, same thing, same principles apply to cultivating a microbiome. You prepare the soil, you don't drink chlorinated, drinking water, you filter your water. 1 (42m 7s): We try to buy organic foods whenever possible, because less herbicides, pesticides minimize reliance on antibiotics. We never paused. Half the antibiotics prescribed are inappropriate. So recognize when they are inappropriate. Like when the doctor says, oh, you have a viral upper restaurants take this antibiotic just in case that's an inappropriate use of antibiotics. So clean up prepare the soil seeds. The most important seed is not a probiotic because commercial probiotics currently are very haphazard collections of microbes, no thought to a number of important factors like those collaborative guilds. 1 (42m 48s): The only product I know of that actually has done that is a product called bio request, sugar shift. And once again, I had no reason to say that because if I know the founders, Martha Carlin and Dr. Rowe, Kento and Michael biologists, and they're devoted to this process, they're very smart. And the only product I know where they actually put together a collaborative Guild and that what we saw, we had about 20 people in my audience do it. And they saw a 10 milligram drop in fasting glucose in non-diabetics big. It's a big effect. That's like a drug effect, a very big 0 (43m 22s): Effect. What's the name of it? 1 (43m 24s): It's biota quest, bio T I quest. And the product is called sugar shift. 0 (43m 31s): Okay. 1 (43m 32s): Martha Carlin has a husband who developed Parkinson's disease at age 44. And she's been working for several years trying to find a microbial solution, by the way, I think they may have found a partial solution. They have yet to do the clinical trial. They're going to do that. One of the things that this sugar shift does is it takes sugars like fructose sucrose glucose, and convert it to another shorter called mandatory. Mandatory is not metabolizable by humans, but it can get into the brain and animal models suggest that metatarsal. This is Martha's, I'm thinking there's some animal evidence that mandatory dissolves the alpha-synuclein protein that accumulates in the brains of pink with people with Parkinson's disease. 1 (44m 18s): And she's seen her husband a number of people who've th she's seen them not full remission, but partial remission. So I think they're onto something there, but have yet to prove it though, they're going to do a clinical trial during the, and greet right in the right as we speak, setting up for the clinical trial. But my point in all, this is the current crop of commercial probiotics are very unsatisfactory just because there's not a lot of rhyme or reason. The best thing you can do to seed your microbiome are fermented foods. The yogurts kimchi is at the top of the list. It's loaded with healthy microbes. Like pediococcus . These are really powerful microbes, fermented sauerkraut, not, not just salted in Bryan and vinegar, but fermented fruit. 1 (45m 4s): And this should be a near no cost process. Brian, you can just ferment veggies on your kitchen counter. I have a number of things fermenting on my kitchen counter right now, kombucha water could fears dairy <em></em> fermented meats. There's a whole bunch of fermented foods and it's becoming clearer and clearer adding back fermented foods that most modern people have long forgotten it ever since the availability of home refrigeration in 1927, we all forgot, but our grandmother's great grandmas would say, Brian, of course we fermented our food. How has do we keep our food fresh through the winter without a refrigerator? But that was a constant flow of microbes. 0 (45m 45s): Fermenting 1 (45m 47s): Fermenting me. Yeah. 0 (45m 49s): Interesting. 1 (45m 49s): I have not done much of it, but you know, it's still popular in many parts of Europe and Asia, where they take a chunk of meat hanging outside, maybe cover it with a cloth, keep the flies off, come back two weeks later, take off a slice. And it's filled with those, those wonderful microbes lack the bestows brevis pediococcus species Leuconostoc species. These are really beneficial species, but they're in fermented foods. And the, the curious thing research out of Stanford, a husband, wife, team, Justin and Erica Sonnenberg just about four or five months ago, pose a very important study that showed that when you consume a lot of fermented foods, I'm talking like 5, 6, 7 times a day, not huge small amounts. 1 (46m 37s): Those microbes in the fermented foods are not the ones that take up residence. Interestingly. So you may get, say this really powerful bacteria called Leuconostoc mesenteroides by eating, let's say kimchi, but it's not the look. And it takes up residence in may for a brief period, but it seems to cultivate the other numerous other healthy microbes. Not quite clear exactly how that works. No, one's figured that out yet. So it's, it's the start. It would be like you plant seeds for tomatoes and tomatoes, zucchini, cucumbers, and squash come up. 0 (47m 14s): Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I mean, gut health, something that like, would you agree? People should start with a lot of times when they're looking to upgrade their health and sometimes it gets overlooked, you know? 1 (47m 24s): Yeah. But one thing people say, oh, I can't do that. I tried fermented foods and made me sick, or I took a probiotic and it made me sick. Or I took a prebiotic fiber to feed my microbes, like legumes or onions or garlic or inulin powder. And it made me really sick. I had a panic attack. I had diarrhea. I had bloating, et cetera. Well, the problem is not the food or the probiotic. Fine. It's your microbiome. Just like all those food intolerances are, there's nothing wrong with the tomato it's you and your microbiome. So unfortunately, most of my colleagues won't be very helpful with some exceptions. And so that's what it is, you know, because I love when you and I get access to devices or insights or tools that we can use at home. 1 (48m 14s): I like in this Brian, the air device to like having fingers that glucose is you're too young to remember. But before we had fingerstick, glucose is in the 1980s, mid eighties, all they had was urine dipsticks. And it was misery because they were so imprecise. I had a faculty member at St. Louis U where I went to medical school at age 29. This young woman was ready blind in kidney failure and had an amputation. That's how bad it was. Or imagine you had a three-year-old playing in the backyard. Who's a type one diabetic. And she passes out, goes into a coma. Is there blood sugar, 900. And she's going to diabetic ketoacidosis and kidney failure in the next few minutes, or is her blood sugar 50. 1 (48m 56s): And she didn't die of brain damage in the next three minutes. How do you tell your in depth? No. So having fingerstick blood glucose and now continuous glucose monitoring was a game changer for diabetes. This is the same kind of game changer for intestinal health. But once again, people don't have to buy it. It is nice to know about though in case you're, you know, if you get your, one of the difficulties with CBO is let's say, you say, okay, I rededicated my CBO. Cause it was causing me a lot of bloating, skin rashes and depression. That's a biggie by the way, and joint pain I got rid of my seatbelt. Oh, I'm so much better. But six months later you have a panic attack. 1 (49m 36s): Is that CBO? Cause it can come back with a different constellation of symptoms because different microbes can take over that had different symptoms. Well, you could just say, oh, I think it's CBO. Or you could see if the CBO or not you'll know within minutes in the comfort of your own kitchen. 0 (49m 53s): Wow. That's yeah. It's amazing. These devices now, like you mentioned the continuous glucose monitors or like the aura ring or all these wearables it's I think, I think they're great. And, and I'm like, I'd have to check out that air device. I think that's, I'm surprised. I haven't heard is it, is it pretty new or has it been around 1 (50m 13s): The first? This is the old device I had my, the new one with the methane measurements is on its way. But this came out, I think 2018, 2019, something like that. That here's the confusing thing because Angus short, a PhD engineer thought it was a device for IBS and FODMAPs. You might get the instructions. I have not seen the new instructions, but when I told Angus, Hey, this is far more than that. I believe they changed the instructions, but the instructions of how to use it the right way is in my book. 0 (50m 46s): Got 1 (50m 47s): It. Cause they'll tell you to use it. If you have IBS and if you have five maps exposure, well, that's not, you could do it that way, but there's other ways to use this device. It's just like glucose. So the glucose meters have been used for years to manage diabetes. What the doctors didn't tell you is you can use a glucose meter to get rid of diabetes. Also use a little differently, same thing here. There's a way to use this to get rid of CBO and food intolerances, but you might have to consult my book to get the right way. I'll see when I get to do a new device. I mean, literally the first shipment went out two weeks ago. It's that new? 0 (51m 30s): Wow. This is a lot of good information. I, I usually close a lot of my interviews with a similar question. What advice would you give an individual? Maybe middle-aged 50 years and above. That's looking to maybe get their body back to what it once was maybe 10, 15, 20 years ago. What, what one tip would you give that individual? 1 (51m 52s): Well, there's it does involve some effort. Sadly, the doctor in most cases will be no help. They'll make fun of you. They'll say there's nothing wrong with you. Don't worry about it. When you know, when you pass blood or have chest pain, then call me. That's not health or to screen you for colon cancer with a colonoscopy, but never tell you that there are steps you can take to prevent colon cancer from every developing that, by the way, is a microbiome conversations. Quite clear, colon cancer is a microbiome disease. Interesting observation. If you have a bacteria called fuse of bacteria, nuclear atom in your mouth, people who have gingivitis and periodontitis and cavities, cetera, have a lot of that microbe. 1 (52m 38s): Well, if you take a piece of colon cancer out of your colon, you'll find it filled with that microbe. How did it get from here from the mouth to the colon? We thought, oh, swelling, right? No, it gets into the bloodstream and seed your colon. And when you find it, when you get, take colon cancer out, it has 200 fold, greater populations than normal of this microbe fuse a bacteria. And if you take fusobacterium and put it in a mouse's colon, they promptly get colon cancer. So now that kind of insight and others similar, why does the gastroenterologist say, okay, yeah, we may do a colonoscopy, but the real prevention is let's look at your teeth. 1 (53m 23s): Let's look at your oral health. Let's make sure you don't have CBO. Let's reorganize your microbiome so you don't get colon cancer, but no coaching coaching. Let's go for the colonoscopy. Let's go for the money. And that's, that's what's wrong. It's emblematic. What's wrong with healthcare. It's all about money has nothing to do with health. And so I don't know of one thing 0 (53m 46s): I know. I know I, I put you in a tough spot, right? It's tough to pick one thing 1 (53m 51s): I will tell you, you know, given my years of the weak belly lifestyle, just all, all wheat belly is, is recognizing what agribusiness and geneticists did to wheat. They changed it completely and it's, they amplified a lot of the toxic effects. So we take it out of the diet because it wasn't really part of the diet for 99.6% of human time on this planet. It's a relatively new addition. And certainly the, the modified version is that we address those nutrients, that handful of nutrients that are largely lacking in a modern life. So those two things, by the way, those nutrients all impact insulin resistance, which is the driving force behind obesity, overweight type two diabetes, prediabetes, hypertension, coronary disease, and dementia and cancer too. 1 (54m 41s): So just those two things are powerful, but you can take it even further, like with rotary and other microbes where we're seeing people turn back the clock, Brian, truly 10, 20 years. 0 (54m 54s): Wow. Yeah. And this is all great information. We could probably go another hour. We'll keep it in an hour, but I really do appreciate you coming on here, Dr. Davis and yeah, where's the best place for people to find you. I know you have it all in one spot, right? 1 (55m 11s): So the new website is Dr. Davis infinite health.com. There's a blog. As you know, there's an, a membership inner circle for people who every Wednesday, well, most Wednesdays I do this me with 70 to 100 people and we talk about CBO and some of the things we didn't touch on fungal overgrowth, mythology and overgrowth, all the yogurts we do. You want to make bacillus coagulans yogurt, because you want to, you want to recover from exercise faster, or you want to make by 30 bacteria in fantasy yogurt for your child, because you want that child to have less likely to have asthma, your bowel syndrome, less likely to be obese and have a higher IQ. 1 (55m 53s): So we talk about all those kinds of things. That's the inner circle. And of course the super gut book. 0 (55m 58s): Excellent. Well, this was great. And yeah, I can't wait to get your new book and I appreciate you coming on. 1 (56m 5s): Oh sure. Thanks Brian. And keep doing what you're doing because I don't know if you know this, but you and me can no longer get on major network TV nor print media, because the influence of big pharma is so powerful nowadays that especially since they've gotten to the world of direct to consumer drug advertising on TV and print media, that the billions and billions of dollars they spend means the media doesn't want people like you and me spouting off saying things that might be antagonistic, the big pharma. So what you're doing is so important. 0 (56m 38s): Well, I appreciate that. I've enjoyed it as well. So thank you so much. 1 (56m 43s): Thank you, Brian. 0 (56m 46s): Thanks for listening to the get lean eat clean podcast. I understand there are millions of other podcasts out there and you've chosen to listen to mine. And I appreciate that. Check out the show notes@briangrin.com for everything that was mentioned in this episode, feel free to subscribe to the podcast and share it with a friend or family member is looking to get their body back to what it once was. Thanks again, and have a great day.

Dr. William Davis

This week I interviewed Cardiologist and New York Times Bestselling author of Wheat Belly, Dr. William Davis!! We discussed the issues wheat and grains are causing on your health, the problem with our current healthcare system along with: - the role Vitamin D plays in your health - how to improve your microbiome - problems with commercial probiotics and his one tip to get your body back to what it once was!


wanna talk to brian?

Schedule a free 15 min consultation