Brian (1s):
Coming up on the GET, LEAN, Eat, Clean, Podcast.
Marc (3s):
When you sort of look at the science on an individual level, it's like, yeah, we have like a mean for where everyone should be, but you also look at individuals and different data points and they're like across a range, right? Yeah. So like, you know, you know, I feel good on 2.5 grams per kilogram of protein and like, you know, Brian can get away with 1.9 consistently and feel good, right? And it's like neither of those things are wrong or true. They're just within a range. And sometimes I think people forget that. I don't know, science changing is evolves and we also don't have it all figured out, right? So, we just do the best we can with what we have And, you know, that's why, you know, it's when we can change our minds and be open to new things. I think it's like it helps everyone.
Marc (44s):
This
Brian (44s):
Week I interviewed pro metabolic health coach and podcast host of energy balance podcast. Jay Feldman We discussed issues with Omega threes, best sources to cook with advantages of eating meat versus chicken or pork, the true cause of weight gain, best carbs to add to your diet and much, much more. Really enjoyed my interview with Jay. I know you will too. Thanks so much for listening and enjoy the show method and his one tip to get your body back to what it once was. Really enjoyed my Interview with Dr Mark. I know you will too. Thanks so much for listening and enjoy the show. All, right Welcome to the Get Lean Eat Clean podcast. My name is Brian Gryn and I have Dr.
Brian (1m 24s):
Marc Morris on Welcome to the show.
Marc (1m 26s):
Brian. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to chat today and dig into all things nutrition and, and body comp and all those things and I'm excited to chat.
Brian (1m 36s):
Yeah, great to have you on. And maybe let the audience know how you sort of got into nutrition and coaching And now you obviously helped people get certified and things like that. Like what sort of led you down this path?
Marc (1m 47s):
Yeah, I think I, I, I like to think my story's somewhat common in terms of played high school sports. Started getting more like competitive in that stuff and realized, hey, there's this whole world of like training for it and getting better. So started getting kind of interested in health and fitness and just lifting weights. And I went to, I was always kind of like science minded. I went to undergrad for like chemistry and originally, you know, they put me in that program and I was like, yo, I don't really like this stuff, but I'll kind of stick with it. And through that time was just like hanging out in the weight room and reading everything I could online at that time it was like Key Nation and bodybuilding.com and like just getting into the authors, And, what they were up to.
Marc (2m 28s):
So I spent most of my time even in undergrad doing that stuff and just being really interested in it. I read everything, consumed everything, and then realized, hey, there's people researching this stuff at the, at the next level, And, you know, there's a whole world of nutrition. So went into grad school and got interested in that and then realized, you know, as, as I got closer to what I wanted to be doing, I realized I still was kind of far away in terms of, hey, I like, I like working with people and I like helping people apply this stuff. And I saw the huge impact that nutrition and training had on my life. Started, you know, competitive power lifting and that type of stuff. I've been doing that for 20 years and just realized like, hey, there's this whole, this whole world of helping people with your passion and you can get, like, you can get paid for it, which was just like completely new and the most like, I don't know, interesting thing to me.
Marc (3m 15s):
So I led that, led me down that path and I've been doing it ever since. So it's been like 15 years strong now.
Brian (3m 20s):
Yeah, that's great. And competitive power lifting. Were you, did you do competitions or was this just Yeah, yeah. Oh,
Marc (3m 27s):
I, I, I guess I can't, I, I can't get away from the coaching side of things. So I've competed at the international level in like I, the IPF International Powerlifting Federation, which is like the drug tested international arm of powerlifting, but also like coached at that level and spent probably more time coaching at that level than competing. But yeah, squat, bench press and deadlift. And that sport in itself has come so far in terms of, I think when I started it, it was kind of, it's still very niche But. it was kinda like underground, kind of a misfit strength sport And. now it's turned into like the athletes are doing it and I think a lot of that's probably the rises of CrossFit and just popularity around just resistance training and strength sports and competitive stuff.
Marc (4m 9s):
But yeah, no, it's come a long way, but I've been doing that since I was, you know, 18, 17 when I realized they, you know, people deadlift competitively and I was like, this is the coolest, this is the coolest thing. And then I, I think it just, instead of paying like football at the college level, I was like, Hey, people are doing this stuff, why don't I, you know, like put a lot of my time and energy into that, especially 'cause I was just so into the weight room and getting bigger and getting leaner and just completely enthralled in that process. So I just started taking that seriously and kind of going from there. And that's like probably one of my biggest starts in terms of coaching people was powerlifters, And, you know, weight class sports, you know, wanting to change, change a weight class or optimize their body competition in the weight class and got pretty good at that process.
Marc (4m 55s):
Yeah,
Brian (4m 55s):
I, I had a buddy who just did a competition and I think it's, power lifting in itself is nice, especially for people. Maybe they're not like playing a sport, but they just want something like to build towards and the work towards and like compete against people that are like the same weight class, maybe even the same age. I think he was the only one in the weight class in the age, you know? Yeah. Obviously he won. But either way I think it's more of like, okay, I have personal goals that I wanna meet and it's just something to work towards
Marc (5m 21s):
Completely. No, I could, I completely agree. I think that's what I like the most about a lot of these, like, especially like even like natural bodybuilding and stuff and, and like weightlifting and powerlifting and like, I, when people go out to these competitions and they see like, you know, masters athletes and like 50 year olds doing this stuff, they have just a much better idea of like what's realistic and attainable for someone in that, in, in, you know, in that situation versus, you know, you grow up in like conventional fitness and you read these fitness magazines and you see people on, you know, covers of them and you're thinking, well like, is that what I'm, you know, shooting for? Is that what's like attainable and that kind of stuff. So it's much more realistic. I always encourage anyone, it's like, check out some of these local things.
Marc (6m 1s):
'cause number one you'll get inspired, but you'll get a much better sense of, you know, where you're at comparatively And what, you know, you can, should kind of be striving towards. So I think never a bad idea to compare yourself against others in a competitive sense or whatever, But. it just gives you an idea of what, you know, what most people should be doing.
Brian (6m 17s):
Yeah. And so you're just doing a, a bench press squat and a hinge. So like a deadlift, right?
Marc (6m 25s):
Yeah, that's right. It's like in three attempts at each, it goes squat, bench press, then deadlift, and then you're, your total of the best three in each discipline puts together in a total. And that's how they, you know, rank who wins is the, the actual total. So you have specific disciplines and different body types, right? Because I know if just generally if you're pretty good at bench press, you're not usually built to deadlift, so you kind of gotta find your way in each of them if you want to be, you know, the best.
Brian (6m 53s):
Yeah, that's a little bit like people that do like, even though maybe it's a bit extreme is like Ironman's or even Yeah, triathlons, right? Like, so you usually have a strength in one area of, usually people are weaker and swim. That's probably I think why they start with the swim and then go from there, right?
Marc (7m 9s):
I think probably the better you get at the bike probably offsets with your swim and stuff. Right. In terms of that actually that's like, I think the triathlon based stuff and endurance based stuff is also starting to take off a little bit in athletic communities, right? People are like getting a little bit more into it. It's, I don't know, I don't, I don't feel like it's accessible in the sense of like, anyone can start doing it. If you have a bike you can start doing it and that kind of thing. But it's like a barrier to entry. It's like, you know, improve your physical fitness, get better at these things and people start to get competitive. My wife was in a female focused triathlon over the weekend and it was just cool to see all the people that show up and compete and do these things and just push themselves.
Marc (7m 50s):
It's like, to me it's like, this is, yeah, this is what it's all about.
Brian (7m 53s):
Yeah. Yeah. And you're around like, like-minded people and we all know how that important, how important that is. Especially if you're just getting started like, you know, like someone else is doing it who's like older than you, you're like, oh, I can, I can do that.
Marc (8m 5s):
Exactly. For sure. It gives you something and sometimes you're like, that's, I want to be like that person in 10, 15 years. Like what do, what do I need to do? Right. And they've kind of laid the path.
Brian (8m 14s):
Yeah.
Marc (8m 15s):
Yeah. What
Brian (8m 16s):
Would you say you've learned from just competing about yourself and just about like, I guess lifting in general?
Marc (8m 22s):
I think the biggest thing is I think people like get into this stuff and really want to improve, have that kind of tendency to be type A control freaks to begin with. Like they really wanna optimize everything and that type of stuff. And I think what athletics teaches you in general is that like there's only so much you can control. Like you do your best to leave no stone unturned and that kind of stuff. At the end of the day, it's just like everyone's in the same playing field for that day and we just do the best we can with what we have and make it work. And that to me is just, as someone that would say like, you know, has perfectionist tendency, then wants to optimize everything and really focuses on that stuff, it's like at the end of the day, there's only so much you can do. And if you just focus on always doing what you can with what you have, it just makes everything a lot easier and more fun and more effective and you stick, you stick with it and kind of learn to embrace, you know, as cliche as it is the journey of this stuff and the process and that, you know, makes it just so much more enjoyable.
Marc (9m 18s):
So I think that's in general what like athletics has, has taught me. I remember some of my first competitions with powerlifting, we'd like, we'd show up and there'd be like, you know, there'd be like a, a lady like breastfeeding a child and then she would like go out to deadlift and I was like, this is, that's the coolest thing, right? Yeah. Like the, like if that, if that new mom is going to like show up and just do it and not think about like, you know, my or my hands chalked the right way or that, that kind of thing, right? Like that, that to me is like, that's the most, that's the most, like, that's the coolest thing. So I think the biggest thing is yeah, just like learning you can only control so much and just doing what you can, I think is what probably competition has taught me.
Brian (9m 58s):
Yeah. Yeah. There's always someone that does something that has like a worse situation, I guess. Is it more, is it a more difficult situation than you, I guess, you know? Totally. So like you see people and I, I know you have, what do you have? Do you have two kids or one kid or
Marc (10m 13s):
Two? Yeah,
Brian (10m 13s):
Two. Yeah. I mean like, I don't have kids yet, but like, you know, if, if, if I do have dogs and if I'm like whatever, let's say I get bad night's sleep, it's like, wow, people work through this stuff and they get it done and it's like, you know, everyone, someone's always got something, you know, it may be in a worse situation per se than you.
Marc (10m 31s):
Yeah, exactly. And you just gotta, I mean, I think that's stuff, I think that stuff is like, you just, you could view that stuff as like something that would, you know, set you back or be negative But it, you could also just like change your mindset around like, nope, this is what, what am I going, like, what am I going, what else am I going to do other than make the most of these things? And I think that process is what keeps people on the right track.
Brian (10m 51s):
Yeah. And what have, what have you changed your mind about, let's say in the 10, 15 years, or you said 15 years you've been in health and wellness, like what thing or what like, you know, nutrition or fitness, like what have, what have you changed your mind about?
Marc (11m 4s):
I think with nutrition, I started off, I would say probably in terms of education and accumulating knowledge, I would've been more like, I would say like rules based around like, you know, do this and not that And, you know, compiling all this knowledge and it kind of essentially turned into like this laundry list of things that I should do and shouldn't do around it. And I think through that process, like I would get results, but they wouldn't always be like repeatable or I wouldn't always know the underlying reason why. I just thought it was because like, you know, I followed those rules. Like I, you know, I didn't, I stopped eating after 8:00 PM I, you know, I started like, you know, I, I focused on eating a certain way and avoiding, you know, certain foods and stuff and that type of stuff.
Marc (11m 48s):
And I think what I was running from most of the time was like this more like objective component of things and like the, I don't know, the science of like, you know, calories and macronutrients and energy expenditure and all that stuff. And I think once I finally got a good grasp of that from a scientific perspective and how to apply it to individuals and both myself, that's when like things really took off. So I, I, I'm less, I, I'd say that like having that objective side of things has really like propelled me. And I, I definitely didn't think that was, it was a bit more dogmatic at the beginning in terms of my understanding of nutrition. With that being said too, I think longer you stay in this stuff, the more you realize that like, if it works, it works at the same time.
Marc (12m 31s):
So it's like kind of having this like, I don't know, I don't know wisdom around like, like, I mean, if something works for someone, there's reasons why and it doesn't, their reason doesn't always need to be the quote unquote right reason. So within my own approach, And what I teach, it's like, hey, science is super important and it guides this process, but at the end of the day, I'd rather be helpful than be right. And I think that's the biggest thing. So I think that's like the kind of the full circle moment is like, hey, need to get better at these numbers and how that guide the process. 'cause that's super, it's super important. It's what's kinda like at a fundamental underlying level, the principles of why we get, why we get leaner and why we get stronger and how nutrition really influences that for the most part.
Marc (13m 14s):
With that being said, I mean there's things that, you know, may, may or not be quote unquote true from a scientific perspective, but when people can apply them and it does move them in the right direction, I'm less concerned about being right than I am being helpful, which is like, they should just, they should do that.
Brian (13m 32s):
Yeah. So like you've, it sounds like you, instead of being so stringent about like certain rules around nutrition and per and fitness, it's more like you've gotten flexible regarding that and realize that something's working for someone that you should just double down on that as opposed to just trying to bring them back to those principles that even though science might say one thing, if it works for Yeah, yeah. If it works
Marc (13m 55s):
For, I, I remember there's a few times like having training partners when I was like 18, 19 and, and university and first getting into powerlifting. And I remember had having one training partner that was like, like pretty advanced in terms of like very muscular, very strong. He was kinesiology student, had it figured out. And I was getting really into nutrition at the time, and I remember, I remember him after workout once having a protein shake and eating, like it was eating some process cereal, like just out of like the mini box. And it was like, it was like fruit loops or something like, I don't know, just like strange. And I was like, Hey, like don't you, like you, you're going to, you're going to eat that. Like, I mean, isn't that like the, the, the sugar's too processed? He said, well, I just trained and I do need to eat like a lot of carbs to, you know, fuel what I do on a daily basis, so I don't really believe in that other stuff.
Marc (14m 41s):
And I was like, oh man, that's, that's weird. Okay. But All, right? I remember thinking at the time, I was like, there's more, there's more to this from a contextual level. And I, there's the stories that kind of guide you. I remember, so like maybe like a meal timing example, right? Like, so much of us were like, you know, live and die by the clock of eating every two to three hours and stoking the metabolic fire. And I remember when fasting started to get more popular in like maybe 2010, 2011, I remember Shelby Stern's bodybuilding coach, I remember him posting about something and saying like, he didn't eat his first meal until like 11:00 AM and we just drink coffee in the morning. This is like just massive pro-level bodybuilder, like probably like 250 pounds of like lean body mass.
Marc (15m 23s):
Like, just like huge, huge dude. And I remember someone in the comments being like, on this post being saying something to the effect of, aren't you afraid all your muscle is like going to waste away? And I remember just his response being something like, well, what do you think? Like, what do you, like, what do you actually think? Like what, like I'm, I'm showing you who I am And what I do, And what it is and how much muscle I have and I don't eat at that. That stuff like the proof is kind of in the pudding. So it's like kind of those defining moments around like, there's a hierarchy of this stuff that matters most, it matters least. So, so what I've learned is that like, you know, some of those rules could be helpful for some, but they don't really fit into what is completely necessary and it's kind of just ordering them and putting them within a system that, you know, you can consistently do and, and apply and that type of stuff.
Marc (16m 11s):
So that's kind of where I've, some of those aha moments around, hey, some of this matters more and more matters less, and kind of go from there.
Brian (16m 19s):
It's almost like, you know, you can get caught up. I mean, I, we talk about meal timing quite a bit and I used to be like gung ho into fasting and I've backed off on it a lot for myself and even my clients. And why
Marc (16m 31s):
Was that you think? Is it more or less just where you, where you're at in terms of development or?
Brian (16m 37s):
Well, for me personally, I wasn't, I felt like I wasn't consuming enough. Yeah. And also just get not getting enough protein in as well. And I, I also just felt like I was getting maybe too skinny for, for myself and I wanted, and so I just wanted to a little bit create more flexibility around eating and, and, and I've, and I also having a podcast and interviewing a lot of people, I've had a lot of these pro metabolic individuals, Jay Feldman, I don't know if you're familiar with him, or Georgie Doff or Brad Marshall, and they really get into the signs of things and they talk about, you know, optimizing new, like optimizing based on like, you know, creating a TP and energy.
Brian (17m 20s):
And, and a lot of times if, you know, you're always in restriction mode, you're sort of in this low energy state, like low power bot, like a low battery mode. And like I know it's gone back and forth. People are like, oh, you know, fasting gave, gives me energy. But then you'll hear a pro metabolic people say, well, yeah, but you're getting it from the wrong source per se, and you should be, you should be implementing, you know, car the right type of carbohydrates and things like this. And so, but either way, so that sort of got piqued my interest a lit a little bit and I just added in a meal. And actually it's been really good. I, I've, I've enjoyed it. I mean, I like to eat. Yeah. I'm not like a huge eater, but I, I enjoy it. And so that's why I wanted to, I've added it in and I've been able to put on muscle and, and, and get my body weight to where I wanted it to be.
Marc (18m 5s):
Oh, awesome. Okay. Well that makes sense. I think the biggest thing is, I don't know what I've learned, I, Peter Atia said it like, I forget what interview it was all about, but something along the lines of like, the difference between efficacy and effectiveness, right? And efficacy is more or less like what we know to be true and how things should work. And then the effectiveness piece is like that multiplied by like, do you actually do it? Can you apply it? And that kind of stuff. So it's like, you know, when you look at fasting in some ways it's like, you know, it's helpful because you know, you, you time restricted eating, you do restrict galleries, like maybe people within that stuff start to eat like less processed food over All, right? And prioritize protein and that kind of stuff. And like can, could you eat enough protein within a narrow window?
Marc (18m 49s):
For sure But it does. It's harder, right? If you think about like, you know, if you delayed all doing all your homework until 9:00 PM like could you get it done? You could without a doubt, but like you also, it's probably making it harder for you to do at the same time. So it's starting to like put all those pieces together and think about like, okay, well like how do I, how can I consistently apply this, even if it's true or not kind of thing is the kind of like what really, like from a, I dunno, theoretical perspective and apply to perspective, I really start to geek out on Yeah.
Brian (19m 19s):
And also too, I think especially 'cause a a lot of my clients are aging males. Yeah. you know, I know there's some science around like sort of a muting effect as far as muscle protein synthesis when it becomes to aging individuals, meaning they have to almost consume more protein than they think to get sort of that, that stimulus. And so now if we have those individuals do fasting, it's like, well, you know, I think the main thing to look at is, well, what is your goal? Is if it's, is it to build muscle and avoid sarcopenia, then do we really want to be doing much fasting, which is, you know, fairly catabolic. And so I, I think it depends on individual where they're at And, you know, sort of, you know, their age and their goals
Marc (19m 59s):
Without a doubt. I think that one of the, what's interesting about like, you know, protein requirements and what's optimal and that kind of stuff too is like when you start to look at the science on an individual level, it's like, yeah, we have like, we have like a mean for where everyone should be, but you also look at individuals and different data points and they're like across a range, right? Yeah. Yeah. So like, you know, my, you know, I feel good on 2.5 grams per kilogram of protein and like, you know, Brian can get away with 1.9 consistently and feel good, right? And it's like neither of those things are wrong or true. They're just within a range. And sometimes I think people forget that. I don't know, science changing has evolves and we also don't have it all figured out, right?
Marc (20m 41s):
So, we just do the best we can with what we have And, you know, that's why, you know, it's when we can change our minds and be open to new things. I think it's like it helps everyone.
Brian (20m 50s):
Yeah. And yeah, I, I agree. I think we're always learning and, and I think there's people on the internet, like for example, let's just say Dr. Paul Saladino, who was like the big carni, I remember reading his book Carnivore Code And, you know, he's sort of gone and changed his mind about this And now he's consuming plenty of carbohydrates, like fruits and things and honey and maple syrup and probably got a ton of backlash. But, you know, I, to his defense, I give him credit for changing. I mean, he wrote a book and he was this, you know, this meat Dr. Guy And now, you know, now he's sort of changed his tune because he is learned and he's evolved. And also too, what struck me was interviewing with Jay is, you know, a lot of times we talk about ancestral eating, but is that optimal?
Brian (21m 35s):
Like, oh yeah, our ancestors did it, but that doesn't mean necessarily it's right, right. Or we're living in a different time now, right? So it's like, yeah, that might've worked, but is that optimal? And so I thought that was interesting when you, when we talked about that.
Marc (21m 48s):
Well, yeah. And would they, would they have eight other things that they had access to them? Right? Right. Would be the biggest thing. I think we're looking at it a narrow lens of like history And, what, what, what did happen outside of that type of stuff. I think one of the toughest things to kind of tease out at times, especially on an individual level is that, are you making, are you making progress because you're doing something, or in spite of it is the biggest thing. Because it generally, especially with things that are like overly restrictive or may or may not work, it is generally the latter, right? Where it's like you're actually doing well, but in spite of it. And things could be in a much better place, you know, if you were, you know, a bit more flexible, And, you know, less restrictive or at least similar, right?
Marc (22m 30s):
But you're actually, you know, kind of getting, getting in your own way, which is like, I mean, to each their own. But at the same time, like if you don't do things that you believe in, you may not do them to begin with. And that's where this like effectiveness piece comes in, right? This adherence, adherence piece where it's like belief is goes a long way with a lot of people in terms of motivating them and getting them to do the right behaviors.
Brian (22m 52s):
Yeah. And yeah, like if you're doing something like is it sustainable for the long term and can you be consistent with it? you know? And that goes with working out and it goes, I think with eating as well, because a lot of people go to extremes one way or the other. And yeah, maybe that'll work for the short term, but then you end up sort of just going the complete opposite way, you know, that could be something that gets into the gym six days a week. I have a, a friend of mine who, you know, he's a bit overweight and I, and I never really pushed him to do much, but he finally started getting into it. And like when he, when I say he got into it, like he got into it like he
Marc (23m 27s):
Night and day, right?
Brian (23m 28s):
Night and day And, you know, good for him. But I also, you know, after a while, a few months I was like, you know, you got, you know, he is not young, that young. I mean he's, you know, in his forties, I'm like, you know, you also wanna focus on recovery and, and And, you know, making sure you get enough sleep and things like that because you can just burn out and, and, and so you, I see that a lot. And then you see that with the nutrition end of things where people just go hardcore one way. Let's just say they just want eat meat. Which again, this could be effective and it could be a tool, but is that gonna be long term and sustainable? And so I think that's just a question you want to ask. Yeah, I
Marc (24m 1s):
Think the big, it's tough, right? I mean, I've been in the business of trying to get people to do the things that they need to do and influence them to do things a certain way. And I think as I teach this stuff, it's kinda like, it's more like a head nodding thing where if I can get people doing this first before they see things my way, it's like, hey, I totally understand why you want to get into the gym six days a week, you exercise more that should, you know, speed this process up. So I understand why you're doing that, but keep in mind that like, you know, go too hard, And, you know, you know, short term setbacks turns into something long term and you can't keep up with it. Like you're not gonna be able to do any of it at all. So it's like trying to get people to like, you know, see why it's in their best interest to do things a different way and maybe a bit more sustainable way.
Marc (24m 47s):
Because like at the end of the day, like that stuff is like, no one wants to do that stuff. They do want it to be faster. They'll do really hard things, especially if they feel like it'll give them something that they don't currently have. So it's tr trying to like present it in a way that they can still get the thing but just, you know, in a better, more sustainable fashion.
Brian (25m 5s):
And And what about yourself? Like, we talk about routines a lot on this podcast. Like what's your routine look like and how has it changed through the years as far as just eating and working out and things like that?
Marc (25m 17s):
I think the biggest thing being, I haven't been competitive in anything from a training perspective for a while. And I think actually, like when we talked about power lifting and that kind of stuff, I know I, I run into people who are like, oh, you're still training. And they're like, I, to be completely honest, I haven't, I've never trained this much. Like I almost lift, I, I hate to be the, after we talked about guy lifting six days a week. But like I, I would probably, like, I do generally lift most days of the week and there's a recovery day in there and that kind of stuff. But I'm training quite a bit. But timing wise, it used to be like after work three kids now I'm like, first thing in the morning and I
Brian (25m 51s):
Just get it done. Yeah,
Marc (25m 53s):
Get it done. We have like, I have a pretty sweet home set up, so it's like first thing immediately I do train fasted just out of like necessity. Right? But I kind of like, I don't know, I call it, I call it wake and shake. I like with, I'll be consuming pre-workout within five minutes of, of waking it up, which I mean, so the best thing for me, no But it, if you're in standpoint, sure I get, I get my training in and get it done. So that's probably the biggest shift to like lifestyle wise has been I'm training first thing in the morning and kind of going from there.
Brian (26m 23s):
What time is that usually?
Marc (26m 25s):
Like five 30. Okay. Kind of thing. I, I think some other big changes. Being very pro nutrition, obviously I, you know, trained and stayed active and stuff, but my, my life five years ago would've been like, I'd, I'd lift weights at night and during the day I'd sit down on my computer and just work with a hundred plus clients and bang out check-ins and just, so I'd be very, I'd be pretty sedentary outside of that. And I think, you know, Canadian winters and you guys are similar in terms of like the Midwest, like you, it's tough to get outside in the, in the winter unless you make a a, you know, concerted effort. And I thought most of my body comp stuff would be controlled by nutrition, which in theory it is.
Marc (27m 8s):
But man, that low activity level really started to add up. So I'd gained, you know, 10, 15 pounds in the winter without really, you know, without really adjusting much food wise. So I definitely have been become more like pro neat. I'm, I'm moving much more like walking treadmill weighted vest stuff, stuff that I
Brian (27m 28s):
Felt like, just so people know, when you said neat. So non-exercise activity thermogenesis, correct,
Marc (27m 33s):
Yeah, like spontaneous like movement that we wouldn't really typically consider exercise, but is helpful. And I think it's helpful for quite a few reasons. I mean, you, you're burning more glucose, you're burning more energy, you're, you know, more active, you're out in nature generally in most cases as well as like, I'm a big believer in, especially early in the day, you start to make positive decisions towards your health, you're probably more likely to do more of them as the day goes on because you're just more invested and things are kind of going your way. So it's a big momentum builder. And I think for me personally, like I as an online coach that was taking care of people's health, it wasn't uncommon for me to like sit down and take 950 steps over the course of the day.
Marc (28m 14s):
Especially like in the dead of winter, I was like more or less dead, you know, like outside of the training right. And not the stuff like, it just, I think it, I think it really impacted everything. So I kind of was, I'd hang out with super heavy powerlifters and you could see them kind of being like, trying to minimize the amount of energy they're burning and just to, you know, for the goal of getting stronger and you're kind of influenced by that stuff and thinking, hey, I don't need to do it. Right. But then, I mean, it's almost entirely the opposite. It's like, this stuff can be, you're in better shape, you're gonna be, you're gonna be stronger and more capable and recover faster and all that stuff. So I think that definitely has been something that's changed a lot. I'm probably like more active now than I have been in my entire life.
Brian (28m 55s):
Yeah. I just talked with, it's not out yet, but Brooks Coleman, he's just, he's sort of an online coach and fairly new, but he, we talked about neat And, you know, it's the movement that you do outside of the workout, the workouts just a small tidbit of, of, you know, what that movement should look like. I mean, I go for three walks a day with my dogs. So that's a big influence on it. And I rarely try, I rarely sit like, you know, honestly. Yeah. Like I, I'm kneeling right now if you can tell. So yeah, okay. You would never know. But I don't even, is that,
Marc (29m 28s):
Is that by design?
Brian (29m 30s):
By design? you know, I got, I just, I have a thick pad, it's like this big. Yeah. And I just kneel puts it, gets my hips outta flexion And, you know, I'm sort of like, helps my posture. Yep. And so it's just the little things like that, I'm not saying everyone has to kneel next to their desk, but if you could just get up and move every 20, 30 minutes, I think, you know, if you, especially if you're at a sedentary desk job, that can go a long way outside of workouts.
Marc (29m 55s):
Totally can. Yeah. Without a doubt. I think it's like, it's one of those things I think we, I mean as we ask more of people, it's tough to work it all in, but it's something that I think you just can, you know, design aspects of your, your life around and that kind of stuff. And I think, you know, as, as problematic as, you know, like the pandemic was for everyone. I mean I think there was some things that were helpful in terms of like people like, hey, maybe I can work from home, not travel as much, utilize that time and energy to do other things. Maybe I can, you know, maybe people are gonna be more open to me getting, you know, a treadmill desk and like moving during these meetings that are meetings about meetings and, and like still be beneficial. Right. you know, that kind of stuff. So I think that kind of, that stuff has like pushed things a long way. And I know for me personally as like I didn't really, I think that'd be, in terms of a big change around my own life, I probably didn't realize the importance of that seven probably swung too far and that nutrition's gonna take care of all of this direction and overlook that stuff.
Marc (30m 48s):
And it's kind of funny how the pendulum kind of swings at times.
Brian (30m 51s):
Yeah. And so, okay, so you work out fasted. Yeah. And then, and then what's the rest of the day like
Marc (30m 57s):
Then? I'm usually by like, you know, 6 37, the, the, the kids are up and I would, I guess I, for the longest time I would, I probably would've delayed my first meal till nine or 10 just outta necessity. I'd get up and start working And, you know, drink coffee and just would feel like good about that and control food for the rest of the day. But now it's like, you know, with the kids and eating first thing in the morning, I, I eat with them and that part is not only nice, but like I think it's helpful for me especially, you know, post-workout and I haven't consumed much after that. Like I definitely, I want, I, I probably, probably would not would say truly fasted. I usually take like some EEAs or I think even in an effort to just see if it makes any difference. I may even just take like half a scoop of like isolate or something like that with some pre-workout kind of thing in the wake and shake trademark approach.
Marc (31m 46s):
But then, yeah, first thing right away. And then I'm probably, I dunno, I, I've, you know, I played around with that first meal And, what that looks like at times. Should it be like a bit more carb heavy or should I, you know, when available switch to something that's like gonna digest a lot slower and maybe meat based and haven't found an overall big difference within that. But I would say it was like a religious tracker for five, six years. But I've just am so mindful about it now that I'm pretty on top of things for the most part and don't need to do that as much. But whenever I'm gonna take things a bit more seriously, I, you know, do a tuneup and focus in on getting a bit more objective about things. And that just comes in phases.
Marc (32m 25s):
Okay.
Brian (32m 26s):
And then, and then, so your workouts first thing and then usually you have like three meals after that.
Marc (32m 31s):
Yeah, for the most part I would say workout first thing, then like a breakfast meal. It's like, honestly probably closer to three squares for the, like for the most part, which wasn't the case, you know, 10 years ago it'd be probably a bit more frequent, that kind of thing. But it's like three square meals with like, I would say just a bit more protein at each of them, that type of thing.
Brian (32m 50s):
Got it. And do you guys normally cook for yourselves and for your kids? Yep.
Marc (32m 54s):
Yep. For the most part. Kids are like, oh man, they're, they're definitely interesting around food choices and stuff. Like you could be, I mean I'm, I know a lot about this stuff from both a, I would say pediatric and also human level around like, I'm sorry, adult level around what you should be doing. But, it doesn't always rub off on your children. They like, they like, they like noodles and butter man and like, it's just like that's in Parmesan. It's just like, that's the, that's the thing. That's what works a lot of times. So just simple stuff like that. But I, I would say like just trying to take what I can from that meal And, you know, turn it into my own and make it a bit more adult focused.
Brian (33m 34s):
And, and then you got into, you wrote a book from Passion the Prophet I see in the background there. Yeah.
Marc (33m 40s):
Put put her up there.
Brian (33m 41s):
Yep. Yeah. When did that book come out?
Marc (33m 43s):
Within the last, it was the middle of July, so July 18th. So it's been out for about a month at, at this point and doing really, really well. It's kind of like the culmination of the science of this stuff from a coaching perspective. But we also, I know a lot of, a lot of books in that space, especially, there's not many nutrition coaching books. There's nutrition books, but not many nutrition coaching books. But the ones that there are nutrition coaching are a bit, are a bit more like education focused. They really overlook the, the business side of things. So the first thing we do in that book is like, okay, all this stuff is good when you understand it, but like, how do you get clients? Like what does that look like? you know, the social media thing. Like no one's ever taught you any marketing stuff.
Marc (34m 24s):
They definitely didn't teach me that as a scientist. So I like to like kind of dive into that stuff. 'cause they're, they're the science around that.
Brian (34m 31s):
Yeah.
Marc (34m 32s):
Yeah.
Brian (34m 32s):
And, and what would you say some of the biggest things are for individuals? Let's say, you know, there might be some nutrition coaching, cli coaching individuals listening, like as far as obtaining clients, I'm sure there's, you can go different routes on that, but what are, what are some of the ways that best sort of the highest movers to, to get clients?
Marc (34m 51s):
I think regardless of if you're, you know, an in-person, coach in-person trainer or doing more stuff online, I think the biggest thing is whatever we're doing should, should start conversations with real people that could see us as the person that can help. And I think a lot of people overlook that stuff, especially in the online space. I think regardless of how you're getting clients, you should probably be doing the fulfillment side of things online just because it's more effective in terms of delivering the communication and that type of stuff. But how you get clients can be like, hey, you know, set up in a supplement shop, And, you know, people are kind of raising their hand that they're interested in health and fitness and having conversations around their goals and creating a process around, you know, showing the value of what you do.
Marc (35m 34s):
But the biggest thing is like starting conversations regardless of, of what you do and just highlighting that there's an opportunity to work with you. It's like simple stuff. But most people don't do that. They're like, I'm gonna start social media, I'm gonna educate people on that type of stuff. And in reality they just get really good at showing people they're, you know, a passionate coach about the science of this stuff and never really highlighting that there's an opportunity to work with them. And they're probably avoiding that stuff because they feel like it'll make them look salesy or desperate or whatever that is. And I also meet with most of the coaches that are like, I want more clients. And I always, you know, kind of reframe it around, well if you do want that, like how is anyone gonna know there's an opportunity to work with you? You've never talked about it.
Marc (36m 14s):
So you gotta do more of that.
Brian (36m 16s):
Yeah. And you have a certification out there as well.
Marc (36m 19s):
Yeah. The, Dr Mark method was like, as we talked about a little bit earlier, was just, I, I was training my staff to take on, you know, to build up my coaching business. And it, it turned into a thing where many people were more interested and being, I taught, I taught my first university course, like a macronutrients and metabolism course at like at 24. I'm an adult educator. I love that stuff. And then it's like my own coaching turned into, hey, we wanna learn with you about learn more from you about how you're applying this stuff, the coaching systems, and then ultimately the business stuff. And it, it turned over, turned into a certification over the last five years and we've taken 400 students through the program.
Marc (37m 2s):
They're putting themselves out there helping people making money. And it's probably just the most fulfilling thing to me. I would say actually without a doubt, the most fulfilling thing because obviously you're an, you're an established coach Brian, but when someone comes in and they're new and they're getting this going and they start to
Brian (37m 19s):
Have, it's a big in Denver, it's a big in Denver. Yeah, yeah it
Marc (37m 21s):
Is without a doubt. But they also have people that are already in their social circles that look to them as the person that could help them. And they're just not, not currently doing it and they don't, they don't know about Dr. Mark. Right. And it, it doesn't matter if I got like 10 times bigger, they just wouldn't know that I I Right. Am the person that can help them. But they do know that, you know, him is like a, a passionate person that they see that could help them, that kind of stuff. So to me it's like I gotta give Tim the tools to be able to do this stuff because it's already all around them. And if we really want people to be healthier and that kind of stuff, like that's the path. So try to put everything that I do out there in the open so everyone can benefit.
Brian (38m 2s):
Yeah, that's awesome that you did that. And, what is your, I guess what's the basis around your nutrition certification and like what are some of the main principles taught there? Yeah,
Marc (38m 12s):
So the biggest thing is like from the science perspective, it would, it would be like taking macronutrients and metabolism at almost, I would say the applied college level in a real focus on, you know, what do we, how do we need to get people, how do we teach people to eat so that they can improve their body composition and athletic performance and overall health. Like very much in the wheelhouse of a nutrition coach. Because I, I think a lot of times, times, you know, when people have health problems, the first thing they've overlooked is the basics around this stuff. So we gotta have a fundamental understanding of the science and nutrition. But I think the biggest benefit of what we do is, I, I have a conversation nearly every day, Brian, with someone eager to start this stuff that has taken a basic nutrition cert that feels like they learned a lot, but they have no idea what to do, like in what's next.
Marc (38m 59s):
Like what do I, how do I coach people, right? So it's like the applied nature of like how do we set up a coaching system? How do we assess people, how do we put them on a plan? What do check-ins look like? How do we set expectations and the onboarding process And, what does that look like? And navigating difficult client situations, And, what does the correspondence look like and all that stuff. Like I have a check-in process that, you know, we teach that takes me five minutes to do weekly and really, you know, focuses on the big movers of what people need to do and effective communication and thinking about, you know, you know, a lot of times like less is more with these people if you have the right structure in place and telling them to get specific on things.
Marc (39m 38s):
So it's like teaching that stuff in an applied way. and we do that through the middle chunk of, of the cert. And I'm very much a, as a, I don't know, recovering perfectionist. We like to just throw people in the fire in terms of like, we get this stuff going and like you're taking on test clients, actual people through the program so that, you know, when within 90 days, like you're confident that you can coach others and are ready to, you know, have already started your business essentially.
Brian (40m 5s):
Yeah, no that's great because there, I've gone through a decent amount of certifications and you're seeing a little bit more, but a lot of 'em will, will supply you with a lot of information, but it's like, well what do you do with that and how do you, you know, build a client base and, and it's not an easy thing And you know, nowadays especially this, this sort of niche has gotten really popular.
Marc (40m 25s):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I can imagine like your, with your experience too, going through those search, like a lot of times the applied stuff or the business stuff is just like, like a little sliver at the end of a textbook, right? Right. It's kind of like a, an add-on afterthought of like, okay, well here's what you do. And I don't think it's, I don't think it's the educator's fault or the company's fault, it's just 'cause they, you know, I mean they teach you the, the basics and it's usually like self-guided and, and educational, you know, theoretical versus the supplied stuff and that kind of stuff. But that to me is like where people really need to be shown. Like, if you really want to do this, that's what you're gonna benefit the most from.
Brian (41m 5s):
And I think you get the most benefit, like you said, is just working with clients like that hands-on experience 'cause all the knowledge in the world. I mean it's all about really, you know, adapting to that client and, and, and helping them meet their goals. And, you know, that a lot of that is just being flexible and just, you know, getting that experience of working with different people for
Marc (41m 24s):
Sure. Like here's what we know, but Now I gotta get someone to do it. So how do I take them through a process where they see it's in their best interest to do it and why we're doing things a certain way and, and kind of going from there.
Brian (41m 36s):
Yeah. That's awesome. Well, from passion to profit, I like that. Yeah, it's a great title.
Marc (41m 41s):
Oh, thanks. Yeah, I, i i, it was, it was fun putting it together and writing it and I know, I mean you got a flourishing YouTube channel and stuff and I know like a, a lot of the are the videos both interviews and like standalone videos, educational stuff.
Brian (41m 57s):
Yeah, yeah. I do a, well I do a small like micro podcast once a week where I just sort of talk about a topic and then an interview like this long form interview 45 minutes to an hour. Yeah. So
Marc (42m 8s):
I think the thing is you probably, I've talked about so much stuff that maybe it's time to put it into written form that's kind of more or less where that that thing came from. It's like we've wrote, we write probably like, you know, three, 5,000 words a week around how to apply this stuff for YouTube and it's just like, hey, all the, all the words are there, just gotta reformat it and put it in a way where, you know, other people like to consume it and that kind of stuff.
Brian (42m 32s):
Yeah, yeah, you're right. 'cause everyone consumes their information differently, you know, so whether it's through a newsletter or through YouTube or you know, watching it or whatever. So what would you say, what would you say if an individual came to you and, and you know, they had a client that just wouldn't take action or, or was having trouble taking action or was sort of in this sort of stale, you know, hitting a plateau. Like what would be the best advice to help that client move forward?
Marc (42m 57s):
I think the biggest thing is most, what most coaches will do is there's like, well you're not doing the things I ask you to do. Like why aren't you doing them? You need to do them right. And I think from a behavioral standpoint, like that's not really gonna work because doing something for someone else is only gonna go so far. Maybe it like works for the first little bit, but then they fall off track or whatever it is. I think the biggest thing is we always have to have that like north star guiding light thing for the person that's about them and not about us that we can tie into everything that we're doing. So to me it's like going back to like, hey, go back to the intake process. Remember why they started this stuff. And I think that's gonna be at the forefront of, you know, when you present stuff, it's like, hey, didn't look like it was the best week. You didn't, you know, you, you didn't track your food, you didn't do this, that type of stuff.
Marc (43m 40s):
Keep in mind like when we started this process, you said you wanted to lose, you know, 20 pounds this summer because you wanted to, you know, reduce this medication or you had that trip coming up and it's like, keep in mind like for you to do that, this is what you're gonna need to do. you know, why don't we break this down a little bit further. It's like, can you, can you know, can you agree to doing that because it's gonna help you do blank, right. And make it about them. That would be the biggest thing is that like people don't, again, like they don't, they don't mind doing hard things if they can remember what's in it for them and kind of going from there. So I think from a psychological perspective, we always gotta wrap in that like that that's your leverage is what they want. And what they want And what they need can be two different things, but we gotta remember what they want.
Brian (44m 24s):
Yeah, that's great advice. Yeah. Sort of going back to the why, right?
Marc (44m 28s):
Yeah, for sure. I think the
Brian (44m 29s):
Biggest, why are they here in the first place?
Marc (44m 31s):
I think when we think about, you know, health and fitness, like we kinda, most of us grew up in that like, you know, the thought of like that bootcamp style instructor of you know, like, you know, biggest loser style, like finger pointing type thing. And it's like that doesn't work when the cameras are off and people are living their real lives, right? And the biggest thing is they gotta remember what's in it for them. And I think, I think a lot of times the coaching in general is just reassuring people that they are on the right track. Like that's like, we don't need to overcomplicate this stuff. Like I think people are like, well I'm not doing anything new, I'm not doing anything. The coach is like, I'm not, you know, providing any more value. It's like if you're keeping 'em on the right track and you can reassure them that they're on the right track and they're continuing the right things, like that's 90% of the job.
Marc (45m 12s):
Yeah.
Brian (45m 12s):
Good stuff. Good stuff. I always ask this question to most people that come on the show, but if you were gonna give one tip to an individual who is maybe looking to get their body back to what it once was 10 to 15 years ago, like what one tip would you give them? I think
Marc (45m 25s):
I can't, I think, I don't think we, I don't think we can get away from protein consumption. I think that's like the, the, I think if you were to eat 30 grams of protein every time you consume food, it would probably take care of like 80% of health concerns. So I think for many people I would start there.
Brian (45m 41s):
Yeah. Prioritizing protein at each meal. Yeah.
Marc (45m 44s):
It's like, it's one of those things where it's just like, from a satiety perspective, from obviously like, you know, muscle building benefits as well as like muscle wasting and all that stuff, and just what it does for how you start to build meals and that type of stuff. It just like, it really helps correct a lot of things,
Brian (46m 2s):
Right?
Marc (46m 2s):
Right. If you're thinking like, Hey, I gotta eat a lean source of protein every time I eat. It's like, your meal typically looks a lot different than what it would if it's like something, you know, more processed or, you know, anything along those lines. So it's just like a good, I dunno, guiding principle. I mean, at the end of the day, it still needs to add up to an amount that's, you know, optimal over the course of the day, but if you start there and do that enough that you're in a, in a really good spot.
Brian (46m 26s):
Yeah. No, I love that. Well, this is great, mark. Where's the best place for people to find you?
Marc (46m 31s):
I think the biggest thing is, and I'm, I'm sure this will show up on YouTube, is that our, our YouTube channel right now, if you, you know, search out at Dr. Mark Method, the YouTube channel, we're quite active on there. I piece of, I posted a piece of content there, either a short or a long form video every day. That's awesome. But we have two long form videos that come out every week and are quite active on that stuff. So I would say the best place to check out that, like more polished content is on YouTube. But if you could also find me at M-E-R-C-W Morris on Instagram, and that's kinda a little more behind the scenes. Yeah. Yeah.
Brian (47m 3s):
I think YouTube's a great place to be and I'm glad that you're like, you know, doubling down on that. This is, I think it's just the growth there has been great, especially for myself and I see with your channel as well. Yeah,
Marc (47m 14s):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we could geek out on that stuff all the time, but I think the biggest thing being, especially for people getting this stuff started, you don't need a big audience and things take off and when you, you know, you know, you, you title things and, and create them to be found, they do get found, which is just the coolest thing. Yeah.
Brian (47m 30s):
Well, mark, I appreciate you coming on this. I thought I, I enjoyed this conversation, so I thanks for dropping all the knowledge today.
Marc (47m 36s):
Yeah, thanks so much. I appreciate the chat and hopefully we'll be able to do it again.
Brian (47m 41s):
Sounds great. Enjoy the day.
Marc (47m 43s):
Awesome. Thanks.
Brian (47m 44s):
Thanks for listening to the Get, Lean Eat Clean Podcast. I understand there are millions of other podcasts out there, and you've chosen to listen to mine and I appreciate that. Check out the show notes at Brian Gryn dot com for everything that was mentioned in this episode. Feel free to subscribe to the podcast and share it with a friend or family member that's looking to get their body back to what it once was. Thanks again, and have a great day.
