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episode #372

Interview with Dr. John Lewis: Eating Plants, Polysaccharides, and Alzheimer’s Disease

July 8, 2024 in Podcast


This week I interviewed Dr. John Lewis. Dr. Lewis has a passion for educating others about the value of nutrition, dietary supplementation, exercise, and health.

In this episode, we discuss his groundbreaking findings surrounding the importance of polysaccharides for brain health and immune function.

We also touch on:

  • the problems with dairy
  • the advantages of eating plants
  • his studies around Alzheimer's disease
  • Dr. Lewis's brain health formula
and much, much more!

Brian (0s):

Coming up on the GET, LEAN Eat, Clean Podcast.

John (3s):

For me, the most rewarding thing about the work that I'm doing with Polysaccharides is I can actually help people make a big difference in their lives, whether it's, you know, themselves or for a family member or a patients, you know, whoever they're working with. It's really powerful. And remember, I don't know about you, but I don't know anybody who eats aloe vera. I mean, we have AE Vera growing in our backyard here in Miami, but I'm, I'm not going out there every day and snipping off the leaves. And, you know, sucking down the gel. I mean, that's, first of all, the Aloe Vera Interleaf gel is 98 point a half, 99% water. So you'd have to consume bucket loads of that stuff to get just a little bit of polysaccharide content.

John (43s):

So no one eats aloe vera. In fact, I'm sure you're not surprised that any, you mentioned the word aloe vera. What do you think of its use for, you know, a sunburn, a, a cut, a wound, something topical? You don't even think about the benefits of consuming it orally.

Brian (1m 1s):

Hello and welcome to the Get Lean Eat Clean podcast. I'm Brian Gryn and I'm here to give you actionable tips to get your body back to what it once was, five, 10, even 15 years ago. Each week, I'll give you an in depth interview with a health expert from around the world to cut through the fluff and get you long term sustainable results. This week I interviewed Dr John Lewis. Dr. Lewis has a passion for educating others about the value of nutrition, dietary supplementation, exercise, and health. We discussed his groundbreaking findings surrounding the importance of Polysaccharides for brain health and immune function. We also touched on the problems with dairy, the advantages of eating plants, his studies around Alzheimer's disease, Dr.

Brian (1m 43s):

Lewis's s brain health, formulaand much, much more. Really enjoyed my Interview with Dr John Lewis. I know you will too. Thanks so much for listening and enjoy the show. All, right Welcome to the Get Lean Eat Clean podcast. My name is Brian Gryn and I have Dr. John Lewis on Welcome to the show.

John (1m 60s):

Hey, Brian, thank you for having me. I look forward to our conversation today.

Brian (2m 3s):

Looking forward to it as well. and we were talking off air a little bit, my first plant-based doctor on the show, so congrats.

John (2m 11s):

Thank you.

Brian (2m 12s):

I, unless I'm missing something. My

John (2m 14s):

27th year,

Brian (2m 15s):

27th year of, of eating plant-based. What, what got you into going down that route?

John (2m 22s):

I think the first introduction was back in 90, whatever it was, 27 or so years ago. I, a friend of mine sent me a link to not milk.com, and I don't know if, if you ever just happened to come across that site in your travels, but Robert Cohen used to run this. I mean, he had a daily listserv going back in, in that era about, I mean, he was just pounding on dairy all the time. And I think the website is still active, although he doesn't run the list listserv anymore. But, you know, Brian, I just started reading about all of the problems associated with drinking cow's milk or eating any kind of product made with cow's milk in it, and your risks of just literally everything.

John (3m 4s):

I mean, you name it, cancer, heart disease, diabetes, eczema, rheumatoid arthritis, ms. I mean, you know, it's just an enormous list. And as I continued reading and, and really kind of going down that dis path of discovery, I just, I went from dairy to, you know, basically all animal tissue. And over about a one year period probably it led me to believe that, you know what, eating animals is not healthy. And I didn't cut out everything, you know, it wasn't like a cold Turkey decision. It, it was a staged process. But over about a six, six month period, I eventually just cut out everything at, at that point I'd pretty much already stopped eating beef.

John (3m 45s):

I was down to maybe, you know, like a couple of steaks per year. Anyway, I just, I was already not a big fan of eating a lot of beef anymore. And growing up in Tennessee, I never ate a lot of seafood. you know, you don't, you don't really have any fresh seafood options in Tennessee. But, but over time I just eventually cut it all out and, and this was really a science-based decision. And, you know, I know the key, you mentioned carnivore offline. I know that's something that's grown in popularity over the last couple of years. I, in my opinion, I think carnivore is really just kind of a new twist on Atkins. I mean, how, how long ago did Atkins start preaching, eating all of this meat and, and butter and whatnot?

John (4m 27s):

I mean, it was all about protein and fat, absolutely no carbohydrates. So to me, carnivore is just kind of a new spin on Atkins, which is 30, 40 years old. And then of course you have the paleo keto sort of in between. But I'm not really here to argue. I, I'm too old and too, I've already had too much drama in my life. I don't, I don't look for fights. I mean, if people think eating beef all day is the healthiest thing for them to do, you know, God bless them and good luck to you. I, I don't, it doesn't really, I'm not interested in fighting people over their dietary preferences. Do what you believe is best for you, and that's it. But I do believe based on the science that the plant-based diet, or let's say predominantly plant-based diet for people who think vegan, which I know vegan, you, you mentioned the word vegan, and some people act like you've, you've said communist or Marxist or something, you know, for them it's like such a, such an extreme word that they can't even hear it without having a conniption fit.

John (5m 24s):

But, you know, I I, I still say the science, I mean, just look at the blue zones, for example. The blue Zones. Most of those people live to be older than average. And every blue zone, what's, what's one thing they all have in common? They're eating predominantly plants. They're not eating beef and chicken all day. So, you know, I think there's a lot of science to back supporting a, a plant-based diet. And, and that's why I do it.

Brian (5m 52s):

Yeah, and I'll say this, like I've had obviously a lot of episodes haven't really had a plant-based individual on, so I'm, I'm glad that I've reached out to others that hasn't worked out, but I think that, like personally, like I used to for a while was like a pescatarian and did that for a while. Now, I, I've added, you know, meat and dairy into, into my routine. But I think that just in general, anything away from the standard American diet can probably lead you on a path of health, right? And then, you know, you sort of have to choose from there. So I know people listening to the podcast maybe are confused week to week, depending on the guest, right?

Brian (6m 33s):

I just, I just had an interview and it's not out yet, but about, you know, vitamin A toxicity and talking about, you know, staying away from eggs and carrots. And I, so like, you can sort of go crazy about all this. I think a lot of it comes down to self experimentation, finding out what works for you. I know it might sound cliche, but I do think there's truth behind that. And so, so yeah, I'm, I'm glad to have you on, and we can definitely talk about, you know, the, the advantages of adding in a plant-based diet and you know, what, what that can help mean for your health. And like I said, I think a lot big thing is just avoiding the processed foods is most important.

Brian (7m 15s):


John (7m 17s):

Well, I, you know, dairy, I mean that dairy is an interesting topic, and I think even some of the carnivore people don't necessarily use dairy, but dairy, if you look at it historically, I, in my opinion, if we ever needed dairy is like an essential food. At some point in human evolution, we wouldn't have made it like we would've, we would've gone extinct. We're the only mammal that consumes the breast fluid of another mammal species. And, you know, milk is designed for the mother to pass on nutrition to the infant of any mem mammal until it's able to to eat its own food. So why is it that humans need cow's milk to be healthy? To me, that's just a total fallacy. There's nothing, I'm not saying it doesn't have nutrition, of course it has nutrition, but why do we need it?

John (8m 2s):

Like you, you can get calcium from plenty of other sources, and they're all plants. You, you don't have to have cow's milk to get your calcium. In fact, if you take the example of osteoporosis, osteoporosis is a disease of calcium balance, not calcium intake. So you consume all this calcium and milk, which oh, by the way, doesn't have a lot of magnesium. So you need magnesium to help assimilate the calcium when you consume it. And you're also obviously getting a lot of protein when you consume this milk. So as you shift, you know, your body as you know, is always trying to be in homeostasis, right? I mean, it's this constant interplay and and reaction to whatever you're exposing, whatever variables you're exposing your body to, that it wants to return to homeostasis fundamentally.

John (8m 49s):

And so you eat all this protein, you eat all this calcium, you get no magnesium, you shift your body's pH a bit acidic. What happens when you do that? You want, your body then says, well, I need to get back to slightly basic or slightly al The way it does that is it strips off positive cations off the bone, primarily your calcium. So if you continue just, you know, eng go engorging yourself with calcium, or I'm sorry, with dairy every day, you're, you're eventually setting yourself up for osteopenia and then osteoporosis because of this. And it's the exact opposite message of what the dairy industry has told us. I, I don't know about you. I went to public school my whole 12 years from first to 12th grade.

John (9m 30s):

I got no nutrition education. The only thing I got was a little bit of dairy industry propaganda in the second grade. I remember this poster in my homeroom class in second grade that had this picture of a cow, and I don't remember all the wording exactly, But. It was this, you know, supposed happy cow that if you didn't consume herd milk, you were going to have very unhealthy bones. You'd have your teeth would fall out and you'd have no hair, basically. I mean, that was the message. And it's all propaganda. I mean, it's, it's nonsense. So if you enjoy the taste of meat or milk or anything that comes from a ma an animal, that's a whole different conversation. If you just enjoy the taste of those foods, again, more power to you, that's your choice.

John (10m 12s):

But if you're, if you think that you have to have all of these animal foods for optimal health, I just don't agree. I mean, that's, again, I've been living this for 27 years and I grew up in a family that ha we ate for taste. We didn't eat for, for health. My dad thought a meal was not a meal without a glass of milk, a piece of bread and some kind of beef. I mean, that was the way we ate. And of course we ate a lot of fruits and vegetables too, but we didn't eat for health. We ate for taste just because mostly of culture, you know, the southern culture of eating and, and that sort of thing. So, but again, it's, it's fascinating to me how you look at the dairy industry's grip on the, so-called nutrition information or education for children in our public schools.

John (10m 57s):

I mean, it's not, it's not at all unbiased. It's completely biased toward the dairy industry. And the dairy industry is actually the original source of funding for the American Dietetics Association. So you think all these dieticians running around are not going to talk about the need for calcium and, and getting it from of cows milk. Of course they are, because the dairy industry funds this organization. So, you know, again, you have to really kind of unpack this and, and do your own bit of homework. I mean, I learned nothing about this in graduate school. This wasn't anything my professors knew anything about. This required my own exploration, if you will, and being open-minded to say, Hey, wait a minute, I've, I've consumed milk my whole life, but is that the healthy thing to do?

John (11m 41s):

And it turned out to me, I decided it was not

Brian (11m 45s):

Now I. Guess my question would be, being a vegetarian is, do you feel that you can get everything like as far as protein, you know, iron, things like that, choline, and you know, things that you'll get b vitamins that you get that are very abundant in, in meat sources from without supplementation? Or do you feel like being a vegetarian that you, that adding and supplementation is sort of a must?

John (12m 13s):

Well, that's, that's a good question. And I believe that the simplest way to answer it is if you eat the rainbow, in other words, a lot of times, and to your point of, you know, you have a guest on last week who says one thing, and I'm on here this week saying another thing, And, you know, then what, what does your listener or viewer think? And so if, if, I don't care if you're, if you're vegetarian or not, you still should be eating a lot of colors to supplement, you know, whatever you're getting in your meat with the phytonutrients that are not contained in meat because they are so potentially beneficial for cellular health. But I think if you're eating the colors, if you're eating a wide variety of different vegetables, fruits, grains, nuts, seeds, legumes, all those different things, they do provide all of the nutrients.

John (12m 57s):

I mean, the American, I just, I just slammed them on one on the one hand, but I will give them credit. On the other hand, they've had two positions stand papers. One was in 19 88, 1 was in 2009 where they came out and basically just said the same thing. I'm saying, if you eat a wide variety of different plants from birth to death, you get all the nutrition you need, even including iron. Which actually some people will argue that heme iron that you get from meat is actually a prooxidant. And there's a good paper written by Reky in 2018 talking about how heme iron, and several other genotoxic species are created when you cook heat at a high level.

John (13m 38s):

So unless you're eating your beef raw or maybe rare, you're actually turning a lot of those fatty acids into incredibly genotoxic species that create adducts in your DNA, which obviously is the reason why red beef has been related to colorectal cancer among others. But no, i, I do believe that eating a wide variety of fruits and vegetables, nuts, grains, seeds will provide you all the vitamins and minerals that I need that you need. Now, being that I am in the dietary supplement industry, I will say that I think that taking a dietary supplement, I mean in terms of like the Polysaccharides that I focus on, are certainly things you cannot get from food.

John (14m 18s):

So you, you do need to supplement with them. we can talk about that more later. But if you're taking a good quality multivitamin and mineral, I don't see any problem with that. Unless you're destitute and you can't really afford it, it's not gonna hurt you in most cases. I mean, you're talking about, you know, most of the things being at a, and, and again, you have to do your homework and make sure you're eating something that's from a whole food source, not synthetic. Like I shouldn't name names on your, your show, so I don't want to get us in trouble. But there are obviously multivitamins and minerals out there that are basically just all synthetic and about, they have a bunch of fillers and excipients, and I think they're probably worthless, even though they do sell millions if not billions in, in revenue every year.

John (15m 0s):

But if you're getting a good quality whole food type of multivitamin and mineral, I don't think that's a detriment at all. I think if anything, you're just ensuring that your body gets a little bit extra of what you need, especially in a time of, you know, you being sick or you're traveling, maybe you're, you know, you're out of your normal routine and maybe you're not eating as well as you should be. So I don't see anything wrong with that.

Brian (15m 23s):

And then when it comes to like protein, I mean, I know there's soy protein, p protein, are those some of the, I don't what other sources of protein, because you talk about like the full amino acid profile, like iso leucine and leucine obviously is important, especially building muscle, right? As we age, right? How do you go about that?

John (15m 43s):

Well, I would encourage you to look at Longo's research vault Volter Longo at University of Southern California. He's actually shown that protein, you know, we're always talking about low carb, this low fat that, but actually protein when he looks at in his, and a lot of this, of course is in animal. So how well it translates to human is humans is potentially unknown. But then again, if you're not, you know, if you're dismissing animal research in in one field, you have to dismiss it and all. You can't selectively say, oh, well it works over here, But, it doesn't here. But what longo's research, and he's mostly, if you've not heard of him, he's focused mostly on longevity and right, using what he now calls this fasting mimicking diet, he's actually shown that the amino acids partic, particularly the branch chain amino acids, are the one that actually accelerate aging.

John (16m 32s):

So they're actually the ones, and especially from animal sources. So it's very fascinating research that the carnivore people absolutely completely ignore. But you really want to not overdo your protein if you're in, if you're much more interested in living longer than you are, you know, maybe, you know, being looking like a god, like a Greek God for, you know, a few decades, and then you, you fall off the table from cancer heart disease because of all these branch chain amino acids that you're gorging yourself on And, what they're doing is they're driving your insulin growth factor one metabolism primarily. So you really have to be careful with that. I mean, yes, of course we need essential amino acids, but if you're, if you're just gorging on them, you know, day after day, again, don't take my word for it, go to PubMed and look up all the research that Longo has published, and you might be in for a rude awakening, because again, you can turn a very significant switch on and off related to your longevity and all these branch chain amino acids.

John (17m 33s):

So I would say, you know, you just mentioned a couple, I mean soy and, and green pea, but I use, I use a powder that I put in my smoothies by orain, that's the one that I like. It's the green pea one that I, I think is a really good, it's organic obviously, and it's plant-based. But yeah, if you're eating, again, a wide variety of nuts, seeds, vegetables, legumes, you're gonna get all those essential amino acids. And the body has a very good intelligence in terms of being able to con construct those into the proteins that we need.

Brian (18m 7s):

Got it. And re regarding, I know your, your specialty is mainly like the Polysaccharides for brain health, and this is something that you've talked about in the past. Maybe touch on the importance of that.

John (18m 21s):

Well, the Polysaccharides are, are very interesting nutrients. And for those of your listeners who don't know, these are complex sugars. And of course, you know, I always have to mention that anytime anyone hears the word sugar, you immediately think what bad, right? Like your, your first inclination, anytime you hear the word sugar is bad. But I wanna teach people two things about this. It's that, that are, these two things are very important. Number one, a sugar is not a sugar, meaning that the characteristics of a sugar are very different. So a simple sugar, a monosaccharide like high fructose corn syrup, which you know, obviously you want to avoid, if not eliminate entirely, is incredibly different from the Polysaccharides that you find that come from aloe vera and rice brand that my colleagues and I have studied.

John (19m 4s):

So, and then you have disaccharides in between, but the Polysaccharides are literally thousands of glucose units strung together with these glycolytic bonds that are very, very complex in terms of their information that they provide to the genes to interpret, to then instruct the cells how to function properly. And these aloe vera, I would put aloe vera, actually, number one, the rice bread number two, just up against anything else in terms of, of the work that, that I'm aware of. I mean, there are Polysaccharides that come from other things as well, such as, you know, the exotic mushrooms, seaweed, there are lots of things that have Polysaccharides in them, but I have yet to see anything else function the way these Polysaccharides from aloe vera and rice brand do.

John (19m 49s):

So just, you know, for everyone out there, please be mindful of the use of your language, just because some talking head out in the media says all sugar is bad for you. That's a very ignorant statement. All sugars are not bad for you. Again, it depends on the source of the sugar and their structural biochemical complexity. So please be mindful of the use of the language. I, it just drives me nuts every time I hear somebody saying, oh, sugar's bad for you. No, it's not. It depends on the sugar. Please get it right. you know, and as a scientist, as an author, I'm just very particular about the language. And so that's what I'm hoping to share with you guys. But getting to the good stuff, I mean, we, we looked at this particular dietary supplement formula in our most significant research with people with moderate to severe Alzheimer's disease.

John (20m 35s):

And, and I should also say just for FTC that I'm not, don't anyone ever say that Lewis said he's using nutrition to treat disease? That's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that nutrition is utilized by the body, the genes in interpret the information, and they instruct the cells how to function properly. So that's nutrition being food as an in an informational source, essentially. And so this is allowing the body to interpret that information, to try to heal itself again, to try to return to homeostasis, which is a far different paradigm than using pharmacology as a synthetic chemical to try to alter a metabolic pathway to treat a symptom of a disease completely different animal.

John (21m 21s):

So no one, no one can say, Lewis said, nutrition treats disease. But again, going back to our study, we ran this clinical trial in people with moderate to severe Alzheimer's disease, which, you know, big pharma really cares nothing about. They're not studying people at that level of severity. and we put them on this with this complex. We assess their not neurocognitive function at baseline 3, 6, 9, and 12 months. We drew blood at baseline in 12 months. And Brian, quite frankly, what we showed was beyond anything that's been published to date, we showed clinically and statistically significant improvements in cognitive function at both nine and 12 months, according to the ADAS cog, which is considered to be the gold standard for assessing cognitive function, and particularly in people with dementia.

John (22m 9s):

It's probably been cited in, I don't know, thousands of papers, but that's unheard of. I mean, there's nothing else that showed that. And again, clinically and statistically significant. So what does that mean? Well, you can have a study with, you know, hundreds, thousands of people in it, and you can look at different statistics, And, you know, with numbers that large, anything could be statistically significant, but does it mean anything practically or clinically? And so with the ADA cog, if you have a change in the score of four points or more, then that's considered clinically meaningful, meaning that it actually has some impact that you could actually measure on the person's life. So that's what we showed in our study.

John (22m 48s):

And so that was the first paper we published from that study back in 2013. We also showed improvements in the immune system. The CD four to CD eight ratio is your ratio of your helper cells to your cytotoxic cells. That's important for all of us, not just for people with Alzheimer's disease. We showed a, a reduction in inflammation. I'm sure all of your listeners are aware of the fact that chronic inflammation, I'm not talking about the acute type. When you have an infection or you, you've, you have a broken leg or something, that's the kind of inflammation that we need to repair us and to help heal us. I'm talking about the chronic dysregulated type. Over that 12 year, 12 month period, we showed reductions in TNF alpha and VEGF.

John (23m 32s):

That also was probably the first time that was ever published in Alzheimer's patients. Those are classically looked at in cancer and heart disease. We showed an improvement in our adult stem cells according to CD 14 cells that improved by just under 300% over the course of the 12 month period. We showed rebalancing of the th one to th two components in the immune system. Those have been classically looked at as your pro versus your anti-inflammatory components in your immune system that had never been published before in people with Alzheimer's disease. We just published that paper at the end of 2023. Even though I'm not in academics anymore, I still publish a bit of of work because I think it's important being in the dietary supplement industry to make sure that you always have a scientific base.

John (24m 19s):

But that th one to th two ratio was very interesting because again, number one, it had never been published before in people with Alzheimer's. Number two, we compared it to a sample of healthy people. The, the people with Alzheimer's were wildly th one dominant. I have a theory about that, which is related to viral infection. And then number three, that the rebalancing over the 12 month period of five of the six ratios becoming less th one dominant was correlated with improved cognitive function. So, and then we had two papers published in between looking at brain derived neurotropic factor and how it related to other immune, immune and inflammatory markers, and also some of the cognitive functioning variables.

John (25m 3s):

So, we have four papers that we published so far from that Alzheimer's study that, you know, again, are just unlike anything else. And I, I would ask any of your listeners or viewers to go to PubMed and do their own research, see if you can find a diet, another dietary supplement exercise training, hyperbaric oxygen music therapy, acupuncture, the five FDA approved drugs for dementia. Nothing else has showed collectively what we've showed to be able to help people with this terrible, tragic disease that's now the sixth leading killer of Americans. It's costing us somewhere between 500 billion and $1 trillion per year in direct and indirect care costs.

John (25m 44s):

Heck, people can't even agree what causes the disease, let alone what to do with people once they have it. I mean, there's no scientific consensus. You now hear people throwing around this new term type type three diabetes. I think that's a gross, a very gross oversimplification. Yes, of course there's something, you know, there's a metabolic component to it, but that's a completely, in my opinion, gross oversimplification. So this is, again, to our knowledge, the only research that actually shows some benefit of, of actually helping improve people's quality of life, which, if you've had a family member, or I'm sure many of your listeners have had either family members or people they, they've known in their lives that have had dementia or Alzheimer's, and it's just tragic.

John (26m 27s):

It's terrible. So our Polysaccharides actually, you know, can, can, again, I'm not talking about treating disease, but can give the body the support that it needs to help try to restore things. I mean, we had some in incre, incredible anecdotal responses. I I'll always remember the oldest lady we had in our study. She was 93. She had had the disease for about 11 years, and when she was enrolled in the study, she didn't speak and she sat in a wheelchair. And so, you know, we enrolled her in the study. She got started taking the product. A few weeks later, she came into the center one day, she was actually walking and she called one of the clinical coordinators by his first name.

John (27m 8s):

He started crying like a baby. I mean, it was just so incredibly powerful and moving on that, on the human level, you know, it's, it's one thing to be able to, to be a good scientist, you know, you're, you're conducting science ethically. You're, you know, you're doing everything by the book and you're, you know, you're doing your job well, but a lot of science as you, as I'm sure you know, and never really sees the light of day in terms of actually making an impact on people's lives. And that's, for me, the most rewarding thing about the work that I'm doing with Polysaccharides is I can actually help people make a big difference in their lives, whether it's, you know, themselves or for a family member or a patients, you know, whoever they're working with.

John (27m 49s):

It's really powerful. And remember, I don't know about you, but I don't know anybody who eats Avera. I mean, we have aloe vera growing in our backyard here in Miami, but I'm, I'm not going out there every day and snipping off the leaves, And, you know, sucking down the gel. I mean, that's first of all, the aloe Vera Interleaf gel ha is 98 and a half, 99% water. So you'd have to consume bucket loads of that stuff to get just a little bit of polysaccharide content. So no one eats aloe vera. In fact, I'm sure you're not surprised at any, you mentioned the word aloe vera And. What do you think of its use for, you know, a sunburn, a a cut, a wound, something topical? You don't even think about the benefits of consuming it orally.

John (28m 31s):

So you have to first of all, take out all of that water. You have to dehydrate it, and then you have to extract the Polysaccharides out from, I mean, it's got lots of other nutrition in it as well. It's not just Polysaccharides, but you want to get it as purely concentrated as you can. And then you put it into a dose that's, you know, a few hundred milligrams to a couple of grams per day And. now you've got something that the cells just, it's like, boom, you know, you have this amazing response to the cells because we know through the study of glyco biology or glycans, that these Polysaccharides are so incredibly dynamic in terms of the way our cells utilize them. And again, it goes back to my earlier comment about all of this coated information.

John (29m 13s):

Did you know that the Polysaccharides actually contain more coated information than amino acids and fatty acids? They're much more complex molecules. So this is, again, one of our theories, one of our working theories, why these things are so incredibly e efficacious. Because once you consume them, the body says, okay, yes, Now, I can actually function the way I'm supposed to. And I'm de describing basically the same scenario for rice brand, even though I'm sure some of your viewers like me enjoy eating brown rice every day, and you are getting a little bit of rice brand content when you, when you eat your brown rice. But you know, really it takes a concentrated powder of several hundred milligrams to a couple of grams depending on what your, your current health status is to be able to have any kind of a therapeutic value or effect.

John (30m 2s):

So this is where, you know, again, you mentioned consuming or taking dietary supplements and, and their need, I would argue, and you can probably throw vitamin D in there along with these, because of how insufficient and deficient the average American is in, in his or her vitamin D status. But there are certain things that you just really should supplement with to be able to get that therapeutic effect. and we showed a lot of, I don't know if, if you want me to stop there, but we showed a lot of very good effects in our, in our clinical trial with people with multiple sclerosis as well. I can, well, my,

Brian (30m 39s):

My, I guess couple questions. Polysaccharides, they're most abundant in, in aloe and rice brand, are those the, I know that's a, mainly Polysaccharides are mainly in fruit, excuse me, plant based foods, correct. Correct. Some animals though. Is that correct? Or that you can get There

John (30m 58s):

Is, there is a, yes, there is a polysaccharide in beef that's actually, it causes a lot of autoimmune responses in people. It's glucco. It's a very, it's a very long word. I'd actually have to go look that one up for you, Glucco, and, gosh, I can't even remember the name of it. But anyway, yes, you're right. There is a polysaccharide in beef that actually is not very nutritious for people. But the Polysaccharides from plants, again, I mentioned aloe vera and, and rice being, being the two that I'm most experienced with and have worked with the most. But in things like mushrooms, you know, your reishi, your maitake, your shiitake lion's mane, Turkey tail, all of those, the reason why they're so effective for human health is due to their Polysaccharides and the seaweeds, different types of algae seaweeds, they also contain these amazing Polysaccharides.

John (31m 53s):

I can't really speak to them as much on a scientific level, you know, what they are and, and why they're effective as well. But you could, you could grossly or generally categorize all these Polysaccharides as being immunomodulators. That to me is the best term for describing why these things are so darn effective. And it's, it's really the ability for these molecules once they get into our system for our immune system, the different cell cell components, to be able to recognize these things as like signaling mechanisms for other issues. So for example, in in some of our research, we've shown that the, the rice brand Polysaccharides actually turn on the natural killer cells.

John (32m 33s):

And so our natural killer cells are our first line of defense against virus and against transforming cells that we don't want to turn into something like cancer. And so for our natural killer cells to function really well is very important for us. And so these, these Polysaccharides have an amazing capacity to essentially turn on our natural killer cell functionality and also increase their number.

Brian (33m 0s):

So if someone wanted to do it through their diet, two big things would be rice and aloe. I've actually used to drink aloe for a while. Anything else they should add?

John (33m 16s):

Well, again, I, I wouldn't recommend it from the allo perspective, just purely for the fact of the gel is 98 and a half, 99% water. So you'd never drink enough of that gel to get the, the concentration of polysaccharide you need to have a therapeutic benefit. And you could argue the same thing of eating. you know, you'd have to probably eat cups and cups of brown rice every day to get the same amount of benefit from those Polysaccharides as you would in a concentrated dietary supplement, like what we use. So, I mean, I'm not saying don't drink your aloe vera drink. It's just, you know, from a, from an immune immunomodulatory perspective, it's probably going to be minimal at best in terms of its impact.

John (33m 58s):

And then same thing with rice brand. I mean, rice brand has, your brown rice is loaded with not just Polysaccharides, but lots of other nutrients, phytonutrients elements, co-factors, metabolites that are obviously all beneficial for health. But you're probably not getting enough polysaccharide content to have a very significant effect, especially if you had something as serious as say, you know, end stage cancer or severe Alzheimer's or, you know, myocarditis some very form of very serious form of heart disease. I mean, these are all things that need a lot of nutritional support, and you just getting it from the diet alone probably would not, it would not be adequate.

Brian (34m 40s):

And. what made you wanna study Polysaccharides And? what, like, when did you start doing that? And then from there, did you develop a supplementation from that?

John (34m 50s):

So I got in, I can tell you that as a, as a graduate student, and again, this is going back to even diet in general, I, I knew nothing about this. I mean, I, I probably had one lecture in biochemistry about saccharides in general, and the only thing I knew about saccharides back then was that they were a fuel source for the cells. That was really all I knew. I, I had no clue. But I met two people roughly at the same time, almost 20 years ago, who introduced me to their stories around Polysaccharides. And, and it completely changed my life to the point where I wanted to get involved in the research to continue helping to, you know, educate other people and, and then through our research, just see what, you know, what these results would show.

John (35m 32s):

But Dr. Reg McDaniel is a pathologist out in the Dallas area who, I mean, this man is in his late eighties, still goes to his office every day, still fighting the good fight. And when Dr. McDaniel and I met about 20 years ago, he was already about 20 years into his journey with this stuff and just had, had profound experiences with aloe vera. I mean everything from genetic defects in children to neurodegeneration to cancer, to heart disease, to viral infections, to all sorts of things. I mean, just an incredible list of, of things that he had done with, with helping people. And then Barbara Kimley was a cancer patient here at the University of Miami, and she had had metastatic disease.

John (36m 15s):

I, I think that started in her thyroid and then went through can, I'm sorry, surgery, chemotherapy and radiation, you know, the whole nine yards of conventional treatment. And they still said, Barbara, we're sorry, I think you may have six months to live. I mean, imagine being butchered by the medical system like that. And then still being told you only had six months to live. Well, she sent me an office, she found me somehow, and she sent a letter to my office one day saying, Hey, I'm Barbara Kimley, I'm taking this rice brand product, it saved my life. And she was already about four years post that six month prognosis at that point. So you can imagine what this lady's, I mean, her, her passion and her energy about rice brand were just incredible.

John (36m 59s):

And Barbara ended up living like another five years. Unfortunately, she did finally succumb to the disease, but I got to know her on oncologist really well. And he would, every time she would go in for a follow-up, Aaron would say, Barbara, I'm looking at your lab report. I'm looking at your calcitonin, you should be dead. Like, I cannot explain why you are alive. Like, he literally was like, your, your case makes no sense to me. So even he as a very conventionally trained oncologist, had to recognize and give credit to this rice brand. So meeting Dr. McDaniel, meeting Barbara, and again, one in South Florida, the other one in Texas, I mean, they didn't know each other. It was just, you know, something that happens.

John (37m 39s):

And, and I've always been the kind of person that I've been an open door in the sense that I'll talk to anybody at least one time. Like, I'll, I'll listen to anyone's story one time and then see if it resonates with me. And, and so sure enough, it ended up leading me. These two people ended up completely changing, not just my career really, but my life, Brian, in terms of, you know, what I was able to discover through now almost 20 years of all of this research that we've conducted in, you know, Alzheimer's that I just mentioned, multiple sclerosis, HIV, non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. I mean, we've got this amazing body of research that we've conducted. My colleagues and I, we published all of these papers in the scientific literature.

John (38m 20s):

And so it was just an incredible opportunity, you know, and again, it's, it's, it's all, it was all about being open-minded and saying, well, I don't know what these people are talking about, but I'm willing to listen to them and I'm willing to be a part of this story. And so it's just, it, again, it completely changed my life, but I was open-minded enough to say, I don't know anything about aloe vera and Rice brand, but teach me, and, and, and let's do something together that can be significant. And that's ultimately how it went. But, and that led me down this really amazing road in academics. I, when we published that first paper from the Alzheimer's study, I can tell you I was, I mean, man, I was on cloud nine, like I was on the top of the mountain.

John (39m 1s):

I thought, wow, this is an amazing discovery And, you know, I'm in the middle of my academic career and I'm looking at what I can really kind of hang my hat on to, you know, build a nice track and path for myself. And so between that point in 2013, and, and I should, I would also like to tell your listeners that that fir that first paper we published was the only paper in my career, and I'm up to a hundred and I think I've got about 190 articles I've published in my scientific career at this point. But that was the, to date, that's the only paper I've ever had where we submitted the paper for publication. For those of you who know anything about this process, it's can be very arduous and, and, and challenging to publish a paper.

John (39m 43s):

But in about 30 days, I actually had the editor of the journal, the Journal of Alzheimer's Disease, which is one of the top, if not the top journals in that field. The editor actually called me and he said, wow, your paper is so amazing. We're publishing this like that. Like, I couldn't believe that happened. Like, again, that never happens. That's a, that's a very unique, you know, thing for a scientist to have happen. But anyway, between that point in 2013 up until me leaving academics full-time in 2017, so about a four year period, I tried twice with NIH and I tried twice with the Alzheimer's Association to say, Hey, look at our data. Look at what we're doing. we can actually help people with this terrible, tragic disease.

John (40m 25s):

And, you know what I got in response? 2 (40m 29s):

Nothing. No,

John (40m 31s):

I got crickets. I got zero, nada, zilch, nothing. Brian. I went from, again, on top of the mountain, you know, way up here in a couple years. I went so far down. I was not even in the valley. I was below it like I was under the valley. I was stated so angry, so frustrated with the idea that we were submitting And, you know, the, these so-called bureaucrats that have access to all this money. They claim that they're interested in helping people. They claim that they're looking for, you know, ways that people's quality of lives can actually be improved. Here we are presenting, my colleagues and I are presenting data, not just an idea, but we actually have data.

John (41m 12s):

We're saying, Hey, give us more money. Help us extend this line of research. And I got nothing in response. And I was like, man, I'm done with academics. I'm not spending the next 20 or 30 how many year every years I have left banging my head against the wall trying to get people, you know, these so-called experts in public health or experts in whatever to, to see the light here and help us extend this work. I just was like, man, I'm done with it. And so, you know, it really was for me, like it was one of those very powerful moments in my life. It, and it wasn't obviously just one singular moment. It was like that, you know, sort of culmination over a couple years where I was like, wow, I don't care what these people say publicly.

John (41m 55s):

I have, I have firsthand experience that if you're not doing pharmacology or genetics, if you're in nutrition, they don't care. They have no interest in it. Because their idea is that they want to have something that they can license with big pharma or some other big tech company that then they can make millions or billions of dollars off of. And they don't see that with, they don't see that kind of potential with, with nutrition or dietary supplements. So I, I knew at that point my academic, you know, my full-time, academic career or endeavor was gonna come to an end, and it finally did. I mean, I just couldn't, I just couldn't continue doing that. And that's why I left academics full-time to go into business and being in business for myself has been no bowl of cherries either.

John (42m 40s):

I mean, that's come with its own whole different set of unique challenges and ways of living. But, but still, I'm very compelled with what I do, and that's part of the reason I'm here talking to you today, is to help, you know, if I can just only educate one person a day over years, that's where it's gonna add up to this critical mass of people who know about this research and know about these Polysaccharides And what they can do. And, and, and that's why I'm doing what I'm doing and why I'm passionate about what I'm doing. But academics is a whole different ball game. And if you're not willing to play, you know, in, in, in, let's call it within the niche or within the clique, then it's a struggle for you.

John (43m 20s):

And I and my heart goes out to anybody that's, you know, was in my shoe or is in my shoes. Like I was, you know, trying to do something in either nutrition or exercise because the money is just not there. It's not there for natural Yeah. Natural ways of healing and helping people. It's not there.

Brian (43m 37s):

Yeah. And then, so 2017, and then you decided to go on business on your own and And, you know, designed, is that when you designed this sort of the daily Brain brain care capsules correct. Like that based off your research?

John (43m 52s):

That's correct. So Daily Brain Care is the result of mostly the clinical trials from Alzheimer's and, and MS and And, you know, again, don't be confused by the name. I mean, daily Brain Care is really a marketing name. And I say that for two reasons. One, because of all of our research that we use to support the claims on the label. But number two, brain health is really an issue that spans, you know, cradle to grave and everyone in between. So, and the fact that for so many of these brain related issues, the conventional perspective has such little efficacy. But I could have named this formula, you know, basically anything daily cell care for that matter, because again, these Polysaccharides are so beneficial to every cell's health and every cell's function.

John (44m 37s):

So it doesn't matter if it's in the brain or the liver or the skin or the heart or, you know, whatever organ or tissue it's in. But, but yes, it daily brain here is essentially the, the result of all of this research that we conducted. And, and I'm just very proud of this, this product because again, I, I have the opportunity to help people like really very few other dietary supplements do, and we have the science to prove it.

Brian (45m 2s):

Yeah. And when did, how long did it take to develop the product and when did it come out?

John (45m 8s):

Well, it, you know, again, it was over the course of, I mean, we're talking about a five year evaluation period now, daily Brain Care, I don't want to name previous names because I had, again, this is about my third iteration of my company just due to really poor decisions on my part, I'll leave it at that with, with partnering with Bad People. But Daily Brain Care has been on the market since 2021, early 2021. So it's, it's been out there for over three years now. We've got it on our website on dr Lewis nutrition.com. It's, it's on Amazon. We've got some other partners we're, we're potentially working with overseas.

John (45m 50s):

But, but yeah, it's, I mean, it's been around for a while in other names, but, but now it's known as Daily Brain Care and, and I feel like, you know, you have to like anything in life, right? You, you, you do something, you learn from it if it's a mistake, if you've made a bad decision, and then you do the best you can try to, to try not to repeat those mistakes. And so I feel like at this point in my business' lifecycle, I'm at a point where I, I feel good about it in terms of, you know, learning from past decisions and, and, and not repeating them. And And now on a path where I, I feel like I can be very successful. It's taking time. It's really all, all about marketing at this point.

John (46m 31s):

I mean, it's not, it's not the science, it's not the product's efficacy. It works. I mean, I've been taking it myself for over 10 years. I've had my mother on it almost since I met Dr. McDaniel going back even a couple years before that. I, my wife was taking it when she was pregnant over four years ago when my, when our daughter turned six months, when we started introducing solid food to her. I started her on it. She just turned four a couple of months ago. So, you know, again, I mentioned those. I won't tell you my mother's age, she doesn't like her age being thrown around, but, but she is obviously an elderly woman. And so, you know, for my view of the world prevention, I, I, I mentioned the, this information to say that prevention to me is just as important as treatment or rehabilitation once you have a health challenge.

John (47m 19s):

So, you know, do the best you can to try to prevent having dementia or cancer or heart disease. And I feel like these Polysaccharides are a big part of that story. And keep keeping your immune system functioning the way it should, keeping it modulated properly, keeping your natural killer cells, your dendritic cells, all these cells sub subsets, functioning the way they're supposed to, keeping your chronic inflammation low, keeping your oxidation low, boosting your stem cells, keeping your telomeres lengthy. I mean, there are lots of different things going into this. And so I think, again, prevention is just as important as any, anything else.

John (47m 60s):

And, and that's why we take them every day. And, and I, I stand by behind anything that I sell. I mean, I, gosh, I put my name on the label. It's not like I'm trying to be, you know, something that I'm not, or, you know, just a slick marketer with no science or, or no substance. So for me, this is my life. I stand behind everything that I say, and excuse me, for me, I think credibility is, is just as important as, as anything else. you know, it's like when people ask, well, how do you know which brand to take? Or how do you determine what supplements you need? And I, I like to tell people it's a very simple matter. It's like anything else you would decide to do in life.

John (48m 40s):

If you go to buy a car, you don't just, you're just driving along the road one day and you say, oh, there's a Toyota dealer, let me run in here and And, you know, buy a four runner. Like, no, I don't know that most people make decisions spontaneously to buy a car that way. Well, obviously it's a lot less money involved, but you should look at it the same way in terms of buying a dietary supplement. Like do your homework people, I mean, you know, take some time to, to do some homework. See, you know, which com companies are getting, you know, proper recognition for what they do. And if there's research behind the products, and if people appear like they're, you know, selling you something credible, then they probably are, again, they're always shysters and snake oil sales salesman out there that you have to be aware of and careful about.

John (49m 27s):

But if you do your homework nine times out of 10, you ought to be able to avoid those people.

Brian (49m 34s):

Yeah. 'cause the, the supplement industry is, I'm sure, you know, could be a bit like the w Wild West, and I agree. I think you really have to make sure that you do your due diligence or you know, where the sourcing of the product is, is coming from and things like that.

John (49m 48s):

Absolutely. No doubt about it.

Brian (49m 51s):

And, well, this was great. I mean, glad we got to touch on Brain Health. Are there any other, like, things that you wanna leave the viewers with? I'll definitely obviously put Links in the show notes for Daily Brain Care and where they can find that.

John (50m 5s):

Sure. Brian. So again, our brand is Dr. Lewis Nutrition. You can go to that website, you can find us on all the social media channels under Dr. Lewis Nutrition. We have Daily Brain Care and powder and capsule form, again on our website and, and, and on Amazon as well. I, again, I, I can't, you know, the best thing that I can tell anybody is just to review the information. Dr Lewis nutrition.com is loaded with all sorts of valuable information that, you know, is obviously geared toward our research. I, there's a little bit of generic information about nutrition and health and wellness, but really we've geared it primarily to, to, you know, stand on all this work that my colleagues and I have done for almost the last 20 years.

John (50m 48s):

And I feel like, you know, this information is incredibly beneficial that I'm trying to spread a message about the Polysaccharides and how really unknown they are. It's kind of like one of these hidden treasures that I think most people have no clue about. But once you, you know, have, take some time to read the information, look at the research we've published, you can contact me, our phone numbers and email address, excuse me, email address is on the site. So if anybody has questions about the work we've published, I'm happy to share more information about that. But I, I just feel like this is an opportunity for any of your listeners to take advantage of all the work that we've done and, and we've, you know, we've simplified it in a way of just, again, all this time that we've spent And now the benefit of it is that you can actually have better health if you, if you incorporate daily Brain care into your life.

John (51m 39s):

and we have other products that we're gonna be launching here in the next couple months. But I just feel like Daily Brain Care could be a, a game changer for virtually anybody who takes it.

Brian (51m 49s):

Yeah. Okay. Well, this was, this was great. I, I think that obviously, you know, the research has done and, and the fact that, you know, you've, you've been using the product and, you know, there's a lot of people who come out with products just for the wrong reasons, but obviously all your reasons seem valid and, and obviously it's being shown in the research, so Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I appreciate you sharing this with us today.

John (52m 14s):

Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure being here.

Brian (52m 16s):

All, right. Enjoy the rest of your day. Thank

John (52m 18s):

You, you too.

Brian (52m 21s):

Thanks for listening to the Get, Lean Eat Clean Podcast. I understand there are millions of other podcasts out there, and you've chosen to listen to mine, and I appreciate that. Check out the show notes at Brian Gryn dot com for everything that was mentioned, In, this episode. Feel free to subscribe to the podcast and share it with a friend or family member that's looking to get their body back to what it once was. Thanks again, and have a great day.

Dr. John Lewis

Dr. John E. Lewis has spent most of his career developing a unique approach as someone who “walks the walk” through all of his combined professional and personal experiences to attaining optimal health through nutrition, dietary supplements, and exercise. Throughout his research career, he has evaluated many different nutritional approaches to enhancing well-being, particularly for brain health, immune function, and counteracting aging.


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