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Coming up on the get lean EAN podcast.
1 (4s): And so, you know, we Belinda's work is about, you know, showing the role of the Adventist church who are the second biggest educator in the world in manipulating our dietary guidelines. They, they effectively started the serial industry, the soy industry, the Western soy industry and the meat, the fact alternate meat industry, but, and they've been manipulating dietary GOs. What's really interesting is they're very proud of it. So if you go, it's not, it's not as though it's hidden people go, oh, you can't say that go. Actually, no, they're actually saying, if you go and have a listen to them and find their papers and, and what they're talking about and where they are in the world health organization, the United nations and the dietary guidelines committees, they've been working really, really hard to do exactly what they're doing, which is to turn us into vegans.
0 (52s): Hello, and welcome to the get lean E clean podcast. I'm Brian GRN and I'm here to give you actionable tips to get your body back to what it once was five, 10, even 15 years ago each week. I'll give you an indepth interview with a health expert from around the world to cut through the fluff and get you long-term sustainable results. This week, I interviewed author orthopedic surgeon and low carb high fat, healthy eating advocate. Dr. Gary Feki. We discussed the importance of eating seasonally, the issue with polyunsaturated fats, advantages of ketosis, Dr. F's basics of weight loss, and is one tip to get your body back to what it once was.
0 (1m 35s): This was a great interview with Dr. FKI. I've been trying to get him on the podcast for a while, and I really enjoyed it. I know you all too. Thanks so much for listening. All right. Welcome to the get lean EAN podcast. My name is Brian grin and hi, I have Dr. Gary Kyon. Welcome to the show.
1 (1m 53s): Hi Brian. It's good morning and good afternoon, wherever it is.
0 (1m 57s): Yeah. And he's in Tasmanian Australia, right? It's seven, 7:00 AM there 4:00 PM here in Chicago. So we made it work. And Gary is, I, I liked your, your title on your, your, I think it was your Twitter ex ex silence, orthopedic surgeon ad advocating for real food. How, how did you come about with that title?
1 (2m 24s): Well, I'm an orthopedic surgeon I'm sort of heading into semi-retirement at the moment, partly because of lots of things happening in the world, but as much because of frustration with trying to get a simple message of health across and going to work and realizing you don't actually need to operate on most of the people, if everyone makes a lifestyle, you know, related change and you would've seen that us data out, just, you know, recently saying that over 93% of the us population and metabolically unwell and having a meeting later today, just again, I always give long answers, sorry, Brian,
0 (3m 1s): But that's okay. I'll, I'll cut you off if I need.
1 (3m 5s): So I mean, if we've effectively got 93% of the population have a lifestyle related condition, which needs a lifestyle related management, and all we're doing is a health system or sickness industry just medicating and operating. So as years have gone by I've found that the most powerful tool I've had in my arm material is actually to not operate on people. And so I'm spending a lot of time doing that at the moment. So particularly when it came to diabetes and diabetic foot ulcers and bits of toes and amputations, which need, you know, legs needed to come off. If those people had really good dietary control, they of their sugar intake car hydrate intake, then they wouldn't have needed to have amputations.
1 (3m 48s): Wouldn't have had the diabetic complications. And we're just talking about the orthopedic ones, not forget, you know, let's not forget the eye issues and the kidney issues and the brain issues that are associated with diabetes long term. So I started talking when I started working this out, which is 10, 12 years ago. I started speaking out about the perils of sugar and particularly refined carbohydrates, highly processed food. And not surprisingly, I think it took a good 24 hours before the sugar industry came after me. And then that became a concerted campaign over years. I got reported to the medical board on three occasions. One, one of which was because I'd inappropriately reversed someone's diabetes, but we did that on national teeth.
1 (4m 33s): And I know that sounds ludicrous, but that's actually what did happen. And the medical board came after me because I was advising my patients not to have sugar. And I've, I've got, that's crazy. All of that's, you know, written down, documented, witnessed. That's what they came
0 (4m 50s): After. Well, I know you have a, that website. I support gary.com. Right. Is that, did that come up out from that?
1 (4m 56s): Yeah, so I was literally silenced by the medical board, not allowed to talk about this, not allowed to talk about nutrition, even if it became best practice, But that literally, that was the ruling. You're not allowed to talk about this even in the future, if it becomes best practice, which I think it's crazy because then if I didn't talk about it, then that wouldn't be best practice. And then you can get reported to the medical board. You know, you can see this catch 22 scenario, right? So in the process of being silenced by the medical board, we literally, I just handed the Baton across to Belinda, my wife. And so literally on the, the Facebook page used to be Gary effect, know fructose, literally drew a line through the word, Gary, and wrote Belinda and handwriting across it, which the medical board didn't really take kindly to because it was essentially just extending the middle finger, but most of the, but Belinda's her own voice.
1 (5m 54s): And so in the process of my silencing and then my really just, and I I'd put together almost a PhD in the defense of this topic. So I've done an enormous amount of research. Belinda would saying, look, you are talking about the science going blue in the face, Tim noes in South Africa, good friend. He was in the same sort of trouble with his medical board, multiple people around the board of the world, getting into some strife over this issue. And she said, look, you guys talking, the science didn't wanna understand. She understood the science, she's an ex nurse. She said, there's something else going on. So she actually has now become the, I'd say the world's leading expert on the vested interest, shaping dietary guidelines.
1 (6m 35s): Yeah. And people from all around the world contact her. So she started a website called I support Gary, which literally is just where she's well, I support gary.com. And I said, look, you can't do that. It's really corny. She said, no, that's what she wants to do. And that became a platform of actually putting her research out there.
0 (6m 55s): Yeah. Because
1 (6m 56s): She couldn't be silenced. So that's a fabulous resource and her talks are amazing. So I talk about the science and the biochemistry because you can't argue that. Right. And then she talks about the vested interests and some of our talks cross over and all of that. But when you actually realize that this isn't about science, nutrition, science has never been about, about nutrition. And it's definitely not about science. It's what I call marketing based science. A lot of people have heard about evidence based science, which is theoretically what we should act upon. And there's a whole lot of people then you've heard about eminence based science because whoever rules, the rules, whoever will say is actually receiving money from the pharmaceutical industry or food industry.
1 (7m 39s): And they hold the sway on opinion and guidelines. That's evidence based, but we've nutrition. Science has got full of marketing based science. You know, how do we make our product more palatable? How do we prove that it's actually safer? And it's literally just made up and that's really what I've been calling out. And that's what I've gotten into trouble for, because, you know, it's literally, we've had a social experiment for the last 50, 60 years of processed food. You know, moving away from an ancestral diet, a, you know, an environmental diet to actually processed food. And, you know, it's a walking disaster zone out there.
0 (8m 16s): And we were talking before we came on, you touch on, you did a YouTube piece. And I I'll put a link in the show notes cause I think it's great. And I think it'll stand the test of time. Honestly, you did it in 2014. And if everyone watches that I think might have been 45 minutes give or take, and it was the model of modern disease. I mean, you touched on a lot of points that I, that I, I think, or we talking about one of 'em was almost, you know, this eating seasonally approach, which is a, you know, like ancestrally, if you think about it, only certain fruits were available at certain times and, and, you know, know even certain vegetables or, you know, these what you call like high Octa, octane carbs during a certain period.
0 (9m 1s): And then, and then you'd have of IRRI of times where, you know, you'd have some famine and some starvation or fasting. And I just thought that was interesting. Maybe you could touch on, on, on your, your thoughts behind that.
1 (9m 16s): Look, I've rewritten because everyone wants guidelines. You know, they hospitals and institutions and governments want food guidelines. And so in, in a, in a pragmatic and somewhat arrogant way, I've actually rewritten the dietary guidelines for the world in one sentence, which is, you know, years of getting to that. But it's, and we can dissect that it's eat fresh, local, seasonal, whole food based on your environment and culture avoiding added sugar and processed food. Now, if you think about that, that's how we evolved. Right? And, and that takes into account all sorts of cultural environments.
1 (9m 58s): And, and I'm, I'm fascinated by latitude because the closer you are to the equator, the more sunlight you're getting, the more exposure to vitamin D vitamin D is actually critical for metabolizing. Some of the byproducts of fructose, which is half of sugar, glucose fructose. But that half that fructose is actually under the direct effect of sunlight, the byproducts of it. So the closer you are latitude to the equator. Yeah, sure. You can have a bit more fruit in your diet because you can actually metabolize, but the further you are away and you know, what, what, what's the latitude of Chicago be 40, 45 something, isn't it?
0 (10m 38s): I couldn't tell you, but I'll go with that.
1 (10m 40s): Yeah. So, you know, it's, it's even further, it's further north than we are south here. Yeah, exactly. And therefore I say to people, you know, so you have snow up in Chicago.
0 (10m 53s): Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
1 (10m 55s): Okay. So when, when you go to the shop and you actually see apples and oranges from California, there, that's not, that's not fresh. It's not local, it's certainly not seasonal. Right. And, you know, think about the food miles associated with that. And in when you in the winter, when you don't have much vitamin D exposure, you shouldn't be eating truckloads of fruit. Okay. I'm sorry that that's the way we evolved, but the biochemistry behind it, which was only described in 2010, but behind fructose actually backs that up. So most people involved in health or sickness, whichever way you wanna call it, actually don't have this in their textbooks.
1 (11m 37s): So the metabolism of fructose isn't in there. And, and that the talk that I've just done recently about carbohydrate, the doses, the poison there's literature in there, which is only 12 months old. And so we're actually still just learning about glucose and insulin. And so this stuff you'd think we would know truckloads about. And, and there's been certainly stuff written for decades, but the modern biochemistry of it's actually now showing when you actually take the food industry out of the equation and the pharmaceutical industry, there are major issues behind actually having too much glucose consumption and certainly too much fructose consumption.
1 (12m 19s): And that, and that's really where I started that journey when I've had patients in hospital outta control diabetes. And one guy in particular was being given ice cream three times a day. So I'm trying to control his blood sugars. I'm trying to actually save his Budo. And here I come in and he keep, keeps eating ice cream. And I said, well, hang on, can you stop doing that? And they said, oh, know, the, the dieticians have told me I'm supposed to be having this. I'm eating the hospital food. Right. And, and, and one of the things I got in, I gave a talk to the hospital food industry, the national body here in Australia at one time, my second slide was hospital. Food is crap and it's killing my patients.
1 (13m 4s): And then I, but it was a figure of speech because if you actually come into hospitals, you should be setting a really good example for the patients. You should be giving them the best quality food, the best possible healing environment, good levels of protein, good, healthy fats in there. And hospitals are just serving a garbage, garbage, you know, it's low quality, low nutrient value and people and, and hospital dieticians get upset when you say that. But I go, let's, you know, I started studying that and we started looking at the nutrient density of the food being served in hospitals. And it just wasn't up to scratch. I would write on patients charts, people would come in with leg ulcers, foot ulcers, poor diabetes control, and I'd write on their chart for them to have two eggs a day and two pieces of cheese, you know, incredibly dangerous.
1 (13m 54s): You know, that's what, but I'd have to write that as a medication. And literally, literally you start seeing an improvement in their, in their ulceration, literally by, by applying their supplying protein. Anyway, the hospital food industry, they, they were quite happy with the talk. They actually asked me to come back and do it again because, oh, that's good. Shook a few people up. And, but the medical board apparently, you know, were reported that I said, hospital food is crap and it's killing my patients. So then they wrote to my hospital to ask exactly how many people died from hospital food when they were inpatients. I said, it's a figure of speech.
1 (14m 35s): And again, if it'll
0 (14m 38s): Kill you over time, it'll kill you over time. Right.
1 (14m 41s): It'll kill you over time. And, and I think modern food per highly processed food, we're we are not, we're not meant to eat it in the frequency we, and the amount that we have it. And so therefore I use the term, are we allergic to it? You know, if we constantly expose our something, so to something which is going to kill you, then that's just as allergic as giving peanuts to a kid with a nut allergy. And if sure it doesn't happens right in front of your face, but it does happen over you. You know, it happens over decades now, which isn't really, you know, well, it literally happens over a lifetime. There happens by middle age,
0 (15m 23s): Right?
1 (15m 25s): Yeah. There's the tangent for you of this podcast is for middle age. Isn't it? What, what, what's your definition of middle-aged
0 (15m 33s): Yeah, that's a good question. Because I would say 40 plus I'm 42. I don't, I will say, I feel like I'm like probably 28. So I guess, I guess that's just a, a, a term, a statement, but middle-aged, there's people who are like my age and they look like, and maybe they feel like they're 30, but there's people who I know I've seen 42 and they look like they're 52. So I think it's just a number, but, you know, I guess the definition depends on the person.
1 (16m 7s): I you've got another tangent. Have you read hitchhikers guide to the galaxy?
0 (16m 12s): No.
1 (16m 13s): You know, the answer to the life universe and everything is 42.
0 (16m 18s): The answer to what
1 (16m 20s): Life, the universe and everything is 42. So it it's, I, I, it's a fascinating book of philosophy. I read it when I was in my twenties and I thought it was funny. And when I read it, when in, when I was 42, I thought, wow, that's a book of philosophy. So it's the only book that you have to read. It's in the hundred classic books of all time, but it's the only book you have to read at the age of 42. Really. So anybody, I know turns 42, I give them a copy of HHI, this guy, the galaxy, and it's, it's a very influential book. I read Elon Musk's biography a couple of years ago. And he says, it's his most, the book that influenced him the most. But the, and what that book's about is not the answer to like the universe and everything is 42.
1 (17m 3s): I'm not actually giving you anything away by that. But the most important thing about book is actually, what is the question? So if we actually come back to, you know, life and living and all those sorts of things, it's actually, the question is actually as important as the answer I've got, here's my definition of middle aged. Okay. It's 20 years older than me, but I've been saying that for more than 20 years. So by definition now I've actually screwed myself. I am now middle aged. I mean, that's just, that's a philosophical take on it, right?
1 (17m 45s): So I don't know the definition of middle aged, you know, some days that I feel that I'm 30 other days, I feel like I'm 60. And so I mean that, but
0 (17m 55s): I, I think, I think, you know, the point of this podcast and just even my lifestyle in general is to just to preserve as long as possible, right? To, to feel like, you know, to feel and look as, as young as you can. And, you know, I still get aches and pains here and there, but you know, doing these lifestyle like practices that I talk about or that you talk about can go a long way. I'm sure you've seen it in your practice.
1 (18m 26s): Look, not just my practice. It's my personal life. My family's life. It's actually made enormous differences. Yeah. I'm a grandfather now. And it's really interesting to watch our two grandchildren grow up with this sort of lifestyle. Now, all grandparents think their grandchildren are wonderful and ours are and blah, blah, blah. But nonetheless, all I can say is that watching them grow up, this is not harming them, eating real food, watching them go to a party and go, I'll try that bit of lolly over there, but don't like it and not having, you know, and having good, healthy, unprocessed food in their, in their life.
1 (19m 11s): They, they just, they're great. You know, they've got their grandfather wrapped around their little finger, but that's part of the game. So, and that's essentially, when you start looking at this lifestyle, this is the basic in which includes fasting, you know, that ancestral diet, that's our safe mode of operating. So the more research I've done, the more study I've done, the more I've realized it, actually, when the going gets tough, the body moves into a state of ketos and it's the safe operating mode of the computer. It's the safe operating mode of the body. So, you know, if you are sick and you in hospital, then you tend to not eat.
1 (19m 53s): You lose your appetite. The body moves into that fasting state. And that ketotic state is actually one that switches on your immune system. It switches on your cognition a bit more. It allows you to become a bit sharper. I've worked with some special forces over time. And they actually, when they say they run keto in their training, they feel, and I love the word. This one guy describe they feel, he felt keener,
0 (20m 19s): Keener,
1 (20m 20s): Keener, K oh, keener keen. He felt keener. He just said, we're on, we're on the edge. We know that that's actually, you're fired up. You fueled up your brains aware. And they actually, they move in and out of ketos. But when they're in training to actually do their, their stuff, they move into it. And, and Dom de G's doing an enormous amount of work with the Navy seals over in the us defense forces are looking at this as a, and it's a fascinating topic, cuz if you can make your soldiers stronger and faster and carry twice as much fuel because let's say in fact that's nine calories per gram.
1 (21m 1s): Whereas in carbs, there's four cracker four calories per gram. Your soldiers can carry more fuel on their body to last twice as long. I'm not saying just eat fat, but I'm what I'm sort of saying, keep your protein and your, your, your healthy fats up fuel your bodies off that, you know, and as you, you know, you know about this, it's a hot topic and endurance sport. It's a hot topic in sport across the board, you know, with, you know, how much carb loading do you need. Yeah. And not much
0 (21m 32s): Actually. Yeah, no, it it's interesting. I mean, it comes up all the time and I'm curious your thoughts on, you know, coming in and out of ketosis, it's, we're, we're having this chat right now. I actually just did a longer, I don't do a lot of extended fast, but occasionally I like to just go maybe a couple days and I actually measured my keytones. I was like, actually it was 2.0 towards the end of the fast, it was about a 40 hour fast. And then I just decided to break it. But I, I, I, you know, maybe do that once or once every couple months. And, and other than that, I am pretty, my body feels better eating lower carbs. I'm just curious.
0 (22m 12s): What are your thoughts about implementing carbs and sort of gauging ketosis and coming in and out of it? Or do you think, you know, long term ketosis is something that is, you know, a, a viable thing.
1 (22m 25s): Well, I'm talking to you. So I've actually been in probably ketosis as long as I've measured for the last 10 years. So people might say I've lost the plot, but here I am, I actually still am alive. Despite being in ketosis every time I've tested in the last 10 years, I don't test all the time. And I'm in a low level
0 (22m 44s): When you, I'm sorry, when you measure, are you measuring your blood
1 (22m 47s): I'm measure blood? I think three ways of measuring ketones is you can measure it near urine and that that's cheap, but the trouble is after a couple of, after maybe four to six weeks, you'll start resorbing, those urinary ketones. And a lot of people think, oh, I'm failing. But in fact, the body's just completely keto adapting. And so that's a difficult, it's a hard way to, to measure a level. You can measure it off a breath analyzer, but they're expensive. And not that not that accurate and the blood one, well, the, the scripts are, you know, a little bit more expensive than the blood glucose ones, but that you can test it. And they're very accurate.
1 (23m 27s): But I, I often say to people, why do you want to test it? What number are you going for? Because there's not the only people who have done a lot of work on this is Steve Finney and Jeff Folick and, and, and Tom seri with cancer work. But if you're an elite athlete and you're really trying to get to that keto adaptation and endurance sport, it seems that getting to that level of two to four millimoles of ketos is, is, is that optimal zone for that? And I think it's hard to get to for a lot of people and, and some people can get there a lot easier than others, Tom Seaford, with his cancer workers, really looking to try and get the ketos up very high on the glucose down very low, again, really hard for people.
1 (24m 14s): We don't really know what the answer is for optimal living. I think, you know, I, I, I did a talk on a brief talk on the, the role of the biochemistry of religion few years ago. Okay. Just dawned on me one day and to cut it in a nutshell, every religion observes fasting and the benefits of fasting. It doesn't matter if it's, you know, lent in, in Christianity or Ramadan in, in, in, in Islam or, or intermittent fasting in for Buddhist. So every religion has recognized over thousands of years that there are benefits of fasting and they talk about points of mental clarity.
1 (24m 56s): They talk about general wellbeing, but the biochemistry of that is that they're moving interstates of nutritional ketosis and they put that fast in there. And we know that that's actually a cell clearing mechanism. It's a mitochondrial clearing mechanism AOSIS of, of cells. It's a, it's a way of getting rid of your damage cells and regenerating, recirculating those proteins back into the body so that that's fasting. And I think that's probably tied up culturally when food wasn't available in some cultures. So, okay. There's not a lot of food available at the end of summer. You about that, that period of summer, cuz the fruit's about to ripen on the tree, you'd have to hunt your food.
1 (25m 42s): So yeah, we, it's interesting that religions organize their periods of fasting around Northern hemisphere periods of not a lot of plenty anyway. So yeah, I, I, I, I dunno the answer to it. That's the simple answer. I, I personally have been in a low grade of ketosis for my own health and wellbeing for a long period of time.
0 (26m 8s): When you say a low grade, you mean like 0.4 0.5 millimeter
1 (26m 12s): Yeah. Point and again, it's generally a bit higher if you measure in the afternoon than if you measure in the morning. I think it's so therefore you play a mind game. Why do I want to be in ketosis? I'll test it this afternoon. Oh, don't, it's just think that being in that state of ketosis is not bad. I think, and I dunno the answer as to whether or not there's some benefit in actually being in and out of ketos and in and outta fasting. I personally like eating you too. I've grown up eating. I, I like food and food's a major part of community and relationships.
1 (26m 53s): And so right. The breaking of the fast now Belinda doesn't have food until lunchtime. She's always broken her fast. And the term having breakfast in the morning is, is literally made up by the serial industry and the seventh day advents as a marketing based tool to actually have breaking your fast in the morning. So, so Belinda's better at intermittent fasting than I am, but the science behind it, we don't know the answer except that it's, it's good to have it from a cell cleansing mechanism, how much you should be and how often you should be in it.
1 (27m 33s): Dunno the answer. So you, I say to people, aim for it. If you want to be hardcore. The very first thing for, you know, particularly in diabetes manage is what we call therapeutic carbohydrate restriction. Let's reduce the carbohydrate load that the body's having. If you want to go hardcore, then trying to lose a bit more weight or you might be looking at cancer management or a lot of metabolic health issues, then you might be definitely wanting to go towards ketosis. But the first thing is let's stop. Let's reduce the amount of highly processed food in the dire of which the biochemistry of it is, you know, reduce your carbs, certainly reduce your seed oils, reduce your, your sugars down necessary ones.
1 (28m 17s): Well, sorry. There are no necessary ones. So,
0 (28m 21s): And yeah, I think, I think that's a good place to start. And I know you talk a lot about on your website, like eliminating snacking, which I had Dr. Jason funk and Megan Ramos, who they work hand in hand and Megan's like her one tip was if you could get to the point where you're just eliminating snacking, that's a great place to start. Even if you wanna have three square meals a day. And, and I know you talk about eating only when you are hungry. I, I always say the biggest way to try to avoid hunger is to have nutrient dense foods. What are some of the, the foods, the nutrient dense foods that you recommend or that you do on a daily basis?
1 (29m 3s): Well, there, there are two, two sides that if you eat to nutrient density, you won't be hungry. If you eat empty carbohydrates, particularly the fructose component, or if you've got, if you're overweight, 30% of glucose gets flipped into fructose, that fructose will drive behavior. And so therefore a lot of our snacking is actually because we think we are hungry. Our body tells us we're hungry, but that's actually fructose having an effect on our hunger centers actually stimulating our hunger, stimulating grilling, which makes your tummy rumble and inhibiting leptin, which is the leins hormone secreted by fat to tell you you're not hungry.
1 (29m 49s): So if you've got plenty of fat on board and plenty of fat stores, you don't actually need to eat from an energy requirement. You might need to eat from a nutrient requirement, which is proteins, healthy fats, micronutrients, but you don't need it from an energy requirement. But if you eat fructose, it will tell you to keep eating. So the very, the first thing, if you wanna avoid snacking is stop eating sugar because a that'll take away the driving mechanism
0 (30m 17s): And these sugars are hidden too.
1 (30m 19s): Oh, they come under multiple names and the food industry will hide them under multiple names because they're not interested in health. They're interested in their profit line and that's a cynical statement, but you know, we can back it up a thousand times over with, you know, here's this guideline that's been influenced by this and this and this. If so, what do I eat? Or like, it's really interesting when you take away sugar out of the diet, your body will start telling you what you want to eat. It will tell you like, I'll wake up and say, actually, I think I'd like protein. Now I'm hungry for protein. So I tend to say to people, if, and I, I hate percentages on macronutrients.
1 (31m 0s): People say, what percentage do you have? I don't know, because I don't think you want to know. Think you want to listen to your body, eat your protein to requirements. So when you're young and very fit and very active and you are elderly, you need more protein per kilo. So eat protein to requirements and then eat fat to satiety as, and in the general, if you are eating and this is going a predominantly animal based diet, meaning that it's got your you nose to tail, you're eating your meats. You're eating, eating your eggs. Dairy for is tolerated by many, not tolerated by a lot as well.
1 (31m 42s): So I mean, you got fit dairy into that equation. I like cheese, cheese for me is, you know, great because it's got protein and it's got certain amount of fat in and I'm not, I'm not, I'm not dairy intolerant,
0 (31m 53s): Right. Me neither.
1 (31m 55s): So, which is good. It gives lots of variety. So if you're eating that and so, you know, people always say, what do you have for breakfast? I have an omelet generally speaking. And literally I've got a sandwich maker, a little flat thing, put a little Silicon ring into it. And I drop in last night's meat. Maybe some VE if we found it there egg bit of cheese, the li put the cattle on, by the time the kettle's bought, I've got a cook breakfast and that, and that's it. So I've, I've had an energy, I've had a nutrient dense breakfast with a reasonable amount of protein and reasonable amount of energy in the, well, you know, the cheese with the saturated facts in it.
1 (32m 44s): And then that that'll run me for a while then I, but you know, the snack food I have in the house because, you know, I I'm a snacker. I used to be the fat kid. I, I I've, I've broken all those rules through my life. I've now got it worked out for me. And I think it's applicable for a lot of people, but not everyone has to follow exactly what I do. So if I'm hungry, then there's generally some bong in the house. There are some nuts having lots of nuts. There's a bit of cheese. We've, we've fortunate. We've got great sausages here, you know? Yeah. Past fed meats and, you know, holistically raises animals.
1 (33m 27s): And we had good access to good food like that. So I happen to know there's half a dozen sausages in the fridge. So if I'm really hungry or lazy, that's my go to snack. But you know, I don't have a packet of chips to go to. I don't have, you know, crackers to go to, I don't have ice cream to go to, I, I suppose, go to the shop and buy some, but I'm effectively, you don't put, you don't have all that stuff in your pantry to distract you. Right. Karen's, in's a dietician in, in New Zealand, she's got a great line. She says, empty pantry, full fridge.
0 (34m 1s): Yes. Or, or freezer, actually my wife and I every month or so order a bunch of quality grass, fed grass, finish meats and wild salmon. And we just stock the freezer. And then the night before you just pull out what you want, you know, if you wanna have a little something, maybe a few veggies with that. And you know, we, we pretty much grill almost every night. And I think that I think cooking for yourself, you know, you talk a lot about polyunsaturated fats and oils, cuz like I think cooking for yourself is something that can go and go a long way. Cuz you obviously know what's going in the food.
0 (34m 41s): Maybe touch a little bit on, you know, polyunsaturated fats and oils because I would imagine 99% of restaurants are using this. Maybe not in Australia, but
1 (34m 50s): Oh no. They're, this is a really murky area, which is I think significantly blurred by marketing based science. So the, the industrial seas, the polyunsaturated sea doors are cheap. Transportable don't need refrigeration, right? Therefore there's profit margin in them virtually all the, so the different essentially you got fats and oils, are they exactly the same thing? If the definition is that fat is solid at room temperature and oil is liquid at room temperature, there is no food or plant or anything that doesn't have a combination of saturated, fat, monounsaturated, fat and polyunsaturated fat.
1 (35m 38s): Everything has a combination of it. So there's coconut oils, probably the closest thing to just being saturated fat, but it still has a bit of monounsaturated polyunsaturated. So whenever it says, oh everything's evil and everything's bad, it, it can never get anything purified. Right? So a saturated fat is solid room temperature of polyunsaturated oil is liquid at room temperature. And it makes sense because polyunsaturated means poly means double many and it has many double bonds within it. Those double bonds create flexibility for the oil. So plans tend to have polyunsaturated oils in them so that in a winter temperature, the oil will still move up and down the plant.
1 (36m 25s): So the plant survives, we're not at room temperature. Our bodies are at 36. What is it? 90, 98, 98 degrees Fahy. And that therefore our bodies are predominantly made of saturated fat with small amounts of mono and saturated, poly saturated fat. And at 37 degrees, we are actually liquid. You know, that's actually, we're flexible. But if we were made, if we were floating along at zero degrees or minus, you know, minus 20 minus 30, then our bodies would literally seize up, but we're not. So anyway, those flex, those polyunsaturated oils are flexible.
1 (37m 9s): But the problem with those, those polyunsaturated oils where the double bond exists are points of not only flexibility, that points of weakness, those points of weakness can actually become oxidized. So those oxidation points are oxidation is what happens with rusting or a bit of steel. That's the point of inflammation and is the point of where reaction occurs. So when a seed oil, industrial seed oil comes into the body and it's exposed to ox oxygen over a period of time, which is in our bodies, then they become oxidized. That oxidation process becomes a point of inflammation. What's really interesting. If we can go back as far as probably measurable, about 200 years, we, our body's probably had one or 2% polyunsaturated oils in them.
1 (37m 56s): The current thoughts are that we're probably moving closer towards now 30% of the fat within our bodies, Leonard league acid. It's one of the omega sixes. It's been measured in the body since the 1950s, 1960s. And I'm still Stephen, Stephen GK. I caught up with him. He, he put up the first time I saw that graph and we had communication going, how, who, why did they start measuring that? And we actually don't quite know why they've started measuring, but they did. So we've got all this stuff in the 1960s saying really good strong evidence. And then for the last 50, 60 years, they've continued to measure minerally acid levels in the fat of the body.
1 (38m 38s): They've also been measuring, getting breast milk. Yeah. I was gonna say us women, Western women, and what's happened is the amount of omega six acid levels have steadily gone up. So the problem I see then is that you've now got 30% of the fat in our bodies can become oxidized where it used to be one or 2%, right? And we do need essential fatty acids are there, but we need them in small amounts. We don't need 30% of the fat in our cell membranes in our mitochondrial membranes, which are the engines of the body to be highly inflammatory material.
1 (39m 19s): That's a mechanistic process. That means that our babies at an embryonic level, when they're two cells, four cells, eight, 16, and they're actually made up of what highly inflammatory material. The cell membranes are not functionally as strong as something that's made up without inflammatory material. Just so have we got this explosion of disease in children now, and again, this is hypothesis. Can't prove it. I can give a mechanism. And the mechanism is that we've actually raising our children in a highly inflammatory Milu, that's literally everything's at, in the woman's view in a woman's womb is in fact not for all women, but there's more inflammatory material in there.
1 (40m 9s): Not even talking about other chemicals that are floating around in our environment. You know, we're not, I'm not even, I'm simply talking about polyunsaturated oils and comparing that also to relatively high glucose levels. You then that becomes, so I'll go down two pathways after that. So that's a mechanism and it's, to me that I think that sort of makes sense impossible to prove this because you can never run that experiment over time, but we've got association data. Two ways on that. One is we've got association data driven by the food industry over time saying that margarine's good and polyunsaturated oils are good, but when you take that data apart and I, and I'm not the only one who's done that, but lots of people take Zoe Harkins done a lot of work on this.
1 (40m 58s): That data is completely flawed. And then you've got studies like the Minnesota heart study. You've got the Sydney heart study where when you look back at that data and you reappraise it, you find out that those people that had more polyunsaturated oils and margarines in their diet actually had higher rates of cardiovascular disease. And that data was in fact buried by the companies buried, you know, are we surprised? No, but you know, because this would be, you know, and there was one, the Minnesota one, they didn't release their data for 30 years because it didn't fit with the marketing.
0 (41m 37s): Yeah. I was just gonna say, if it's everywhere, I mean, if you look at labels, right? Like sunflower seed oil, canola oil, all these vegetable oils, right? Like they're, they're everywhere. It's,
1 (41m 52s): We've got chickens out there. And if I wanna buy a, a grain mix, a natural grain mix for them, it's got seed oil in it. It's got a, they've put it in there because it, it stops the, the grain from getting dust on it, you know, the dust and keeps it all night. So it's really hard to even find ch food, unless you get plain wheat for them. And guess what? They love wheat because they're addicted to it. It's like sugar, you know, it's like horses, you give them oats on race day because it makes them run fast because it makes them go crazy.
0 (42m 24s): Yeah. Makes them flip. Yeah. It makes them fatter too. Right? The wheat. Oh
1 (42m 28s): Yeah. Fatten them up with grain. You know, we, we do it all the time with our animals. And when we wonder why, you know, we haven't observed the same problem with ourselves.
0 (42m 37s): Yeah.
1 (42m 39s): The flip side of that is what happens to, and in morning sickness to women, our daughter was pretty cook with morning sickness and it made me look at it. The old wives tale is, oh, if you've got severe morning sickness, the baby will turn out fine.
0 (43m 2s): Really?
1 (43m 4s): And, but I thought, actually, I'm gonna look at this. And it made me aware that when she, that first trimester of pregnancy, which is the most critical time of development for a baby, when a woman's not eating because she's got morning sickness, like can't eat because of everything is quite thrown up. She has moved into ketos, it's measurable. And, and they do measure women who get really sick and come into hospital. They've got, they own ketos. Her daughter was in ketosis. It's just mild ketosis. So I thought, hang on. This is really interesting. We've actually got an experiment in place where we can actually measure the outcomes.
1 (43m 48s): So as it turns out in the literature, there are tens of thousands of children that have been studied of outcomes of women who have actually had morning sickness. As it turns out the more severe the morning sickness, by my definition of greater this period of time in ketosis, the better the outcomes for the babies. So we actually look at them tens of thousands of studies now, or tens of thousands of patients in multiple studies. The baby, the pregnancies tend to be less complicated. That babies tend to run out to term. They're more likely to be of normal birth weight. They are less likely to have miscarriages through the pregnancy.
1 (44m 29s): They end up with less congenital abnormalities and the children develop perfectly well, arguably smarter than average. Take the other side, which is gestational diabetes. Again, tens of thousands of women studied with gestational diabetes, with poor blood glucose control. It's got nothing to do with sea oils, but it does have control evidence of what happens with elevated blood glucose babies grow in a state of ketosis. We know that they grow well when you actually have fluctuating levels of blood glucose, which then crosses the placenta. Those babies are, those women are more likely have miscarriages. The babies are less likely to get through the term.
1 (45m 11s): They're more likely high birth weights and low birth weights. They're more likely have congenital abnormalities, particularly the environmental ones like the cardiovascular ones. And they're more likely again, association to have learning difficulties and ADHD. So, and again, that's observational data, but it's been done on tens of thousands. So if I went along and actually said, okay, I wanna do a study on women. And I wanna put 50% of them into fasting and put them into ketosis. And the other 50%, I want to get them highly processed food. I'd never get that past an ethics committee.
1 (45m 51s): They go, oh, you killing them. You're gonna kill them both ways. I said, no, no, but what I'm saying is we've already got that data and it's been going for decades. And I, I say, and so there's, again, it's a talk on YouTube. It's all referenced to all the references there at the end. Just go and look. And that's
0 (46m 8s): So much, you did a talk on YouTube about this.
1 (46m 11s): Yes. Yeah. I mean,
0 (46m 12s): What's the ti, what's the title? Do you know? If not, you, I could, we could search it.
1 (46m 19s): Yeah. But essentially you've got Feki YouTube and find it morning sickness. Yeah. I think that's it. Morning sickness. Okay. So what earth is an orthopedic surgeon talking about morning sickness for, but it it's, this is, you know, all I'm doing is applying a scientific method across something and people will say, okay, he's got cognitive dissonance. And he is looking at, I sort of go and look at it yourself. I, you know, I've got, I'm not making any money. I've got nothing to prove here. I'm only sticking my neck out. And I had a few obstetricians say, you shouldn't be talking in that space. And then I had a whole lot of obstetricians contact me and say, wow, I'd never thought about it like that.
1 (47m 0s): Thanks for the information. I can pass that on. Because again, that lots of people have, lots of women have got morning sickness. They're worried about it. Here's the scientific basis, the likely science behind it. But here are the results. I've just tabulated them. Nothing. That's not. And that, that's what, you know, there's a talk on mind, which I've done, which is, is not on anything which I give from time to time about where is the best spot to hide something. Do you know where that is?
0 (47m 33s): Where is the best spot to hide something?
1 (47m 36s): Yes. I dunno. It's in play in plain sight
0 (47m 40s): In plain sight
1 (47m 41s): In plain sight. So it's right in front of you. If you go looking for it, it's right. It's right in front of you. You don't have to look very hard.
0 (47m 49s): Yeah. That's true. In a lot of things.
1 (47m 52s): And so, you know, we Belinda's work is about, you know, showing the role of the Adventist church who are the second biggest educator in the world in manipulating our dietary guidelines. They, they effectively started the serial industry, the soy industry, the Western soy industry and the meat, the alternate meat industry. But, and they've been manipulating dietary GOs. What's really interesting is they're very proud of it. So if you go, it's not, it's not as though it's hidden people go, oh, you can't say that go. Actually, no, they're actually saying, if you go and have a listen to them and find their papers and, and what they're talking about and where they are in the world health organization, the United nations, the dietary guidelines committees, they've been working really, really hard to do exactly what they're doing, which is to turn us into vegans.
1 (48m 41s): I don't have a problem with vegans because you know, they're interested in the health outcomes and the planet and all that. But if they're actually taking their, their proof, that that's the way to go from the Adventist church ministries, which back in the 1950s, started their Adventist health studies to prove their point, that the visions of L and G white and a vegan diet is appropriate. And, but, you know, everything's manipulated according to the Adventist health studies, you know, the definite definition of vegetarian and vegan vegan.
0 (49m 16s): Well,
1 (49m 16s): So what's interesting. You are vegetarian if you don't have meat more than once a week and you are vegan. If you don't have meat more than once a month. Now that's not the message that's out there, but that's what they used in their studies. So I, I, I, I'm all for us eating clean food and a better, but if you actually give everyone impression that it don't eat meat at all, don't touch an animal product, then you're not going to actually get in those, those micronutrients, particularly vitamin B12 that you need.
0 (49m 50s): Yeah. Yeah. You'll, you'll definitely, if you're, you know, vegan or vegetarian and I was pescatarian for a while and I found once I went to more animal proteins, I mean, I'm fairly active and like the lift, I mean, I just saw a huge jump in, in my workouts and in, in, you know, taking Dexus scans and, and gaining muscle. So, and we all know how important it is to maintain muscle mass. As we age.
1 (50m 17s): I look, I, I great believer that we should be eating to our nutrient requirements. If you have a plant-based diet over time, you are not going to get all of your essential micronutrients. You're not gonna get your essential proteins and you're not gonna get your essential fats. It's really, really hard to do a well constructed vegan diet, and it's gonna catch up, whereas you can do it. That's fine. But you know, if
0 (50m 46s): You probably just need the supplement,
1 (50m 48s): Well, you've got supplement. And so therefore that's not a whole food diet, right. Whereas if your diet is predominantly animal based, and I'm not talking about factory farming, I'm talking about holistically raised animals of which if we are smarter about it, we can turn our grasslands into productive land. Then we're, we kinda have a healthier population. We have less sickness. We're gonna have less costs associated with that. And I don't think we can afford to keep going the pathway. We are. I think we have to go, we have to relook at the whole equation because you know, people say cost of healthcare is blown out.
1 (51m 30s): And I said, well, yes, but if the cost of healthcare is going to pharmaceutical industries and it's going to bandaid sick care, whereas we go back to the root cause and actually put that money back into our primary industry and support our farmers and get that whole produce back. It's, it's a complete, no brainer, but it requires a rethink. But if you're asking, waiting for governments to do that, that's gonna take a long time, but the individual can do it today. So power to the people like literally you can decide don't matter how bad your life is, whatever the situation is, you alone have got control, particularly in Western world of what you're gonna eat this afternoon or not eat, or even fast.
0 (52m 16s): I had Dr. Robert LUS again, I don't know if you're familiar with him with metabolical. I always it's. I recommend that's a great book. If anyone wants to learn more about what we're
1 (52m 26s): Bob, Bob's done some great, great work. Yeah. We've had had Belinda and I caught up with Bob in San Francisco a couple of years ago and had a great steak dinner. I'd like to, you know, throw a plug out to the restaurant, but I can't remember what it was. So
0 (52m 41s): In San Francisco. Okay. I was
1 (52m 42s): There. It was good. Yeah. It was good. Great. It was a, he was been a great supporter of us because we obviously talking about the sugar at the same timeframe.
0 (52m 51s): Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I see a lot of what you're talking about, you know, with what's going on just in the food industry and, and metabolic health, the same along the same minds as, as Dr. Lustig. And I wanted to finish up with a couple questions one before I ask you the last one is I know you're you wanted to talk a little bit about golf. And I said, I would, I could talk an hour about golf. If we probably want, I'm gonna ask for your prediction for the open championship. And when this comes out, the open championship will be, will be over, but you'll look really good. If you say who who's gonna win it, is it gonna be an Australian?
1 (53m 32s): Well, I think golf's a really thing if you're actually in low carb keto, cause it goes over some hours. I think whoever's going to be running closest to low car. You is actually gonna win. And because they're gonna have greater concentration, I I'll bag my club president out. I was playing golf with him the other day and he was having a great round. He was, he is off three.
0 (53m 59s): He was three under,
1 (54m 0s): He was he's off at handicap of three.
0 (54m 3s): He's a three handicap. Okay.
1 (54m 5s): Anyway, he, he was, he was well under card. He was having a great round and at nine holes, he, he snacked up,
0 (54m 14s): Oh,
1 (54m 15s): He had done some carbs. And I said to him, don't think you should have done that. Anyway, he then blew out around 20, 30 minutes later. He, he blew out two holes and, and I, I laughed at him. So
0 (54m 31s): That's an interesting point, cuz I do, I do a lot of my rounds in the morning in a fast state. I'll just go right. You know, I'll have, I'll just have some mineral water on the course with me. And, and then there's other times where maybe I play in the afternoon or I've had something before I should do a, a little test on myself. See what my average score is when I have
1 (54m 52s): Well, I mean, I, I love golf for the reason is that it's the only thing I do where I have complete outta control over the outcome of my actions.
0 (55m 6s): Yeah.
1 (55m 6s): Yeah. You decide. If you want to go out and play golf, you want to stand over the ball. We decide what club you're gonna use. You decide. And it's all my decision I decide on when I want to hit it, what I want to do, whatever. And therefore I have alone have control of that outcome. So many other sports. We do so many, like we're having a conversation today. I'm reacting to your question. We we're reacting to each other. So golf is the one thing that you've got complete control over. And as a result, I, I think it's a great judge of character. And I I'd like if I ever interview, if I'd like to employ someone, I'd like to have a round of golf with them and then have a, a drink in the bar or whatever afterwards, because what happens is you see how they react to what, when they, when they muck it up.
1 (55m 54s): Yeah. Cause you can't, you never have a perfect round of golf and how you react to what you've done to yourself is actually really interesting. And if you're having tantrums and go to pieces and that's an interesting thing and character and the other one is actually then go along and have it a drink or something like that. Cup cup of tea, coffee, whatever, and see how they work and interact with people who serve them. And I had 11 jobs through university. I can still remember very clearly some people who just working at a service station, people would go check the tires, boy, check the oil, do all that. And there was one guy in particular who used to treat me as, you know, get mad of servitude.
1 (56m 37s): And then a year later I was an intern at the local hospital. I had a white coat on and he came in with his daughter. I was the same guy. I never, I never changed personality. Whether or not I'm serving GI petrol or, or in medicine, hopefully fairly down to earth. And he called me, sir. And I went, hang on what happened there? Literally 12 months have gone down the track, but I'm the same person. So how people react to you, how they react to themselves and how they react to others, great judges of character and so golf. And you know, I'd like to say, I've never sworn on the golf course, but maybe I have,
0 (57m 19s): Well, yeah. I mean I,
1 (57m 20s): And diet diets like that, sorry, diets like that. You don't have to get it right all the time, but if you're actually heading in the right direction and sometimes you muck up and you go, okay, well look, I've just had a whole lot of, you know, takeaway. Okay, well just okay. Get back on track.
0 (57m 36s): So that's a great point. Yeah. I never thought of it that way as far as, but as health is concerned, you're right. I actually did a little pot micro podcast on, you know, if you have a off day of eating, you know, that's great. As long as he doesn't turn to an off week and an off month, you know,
1 (57m 56s): I come back to seed oils and that again, and I'll tell you a story about my daughter, who's 26, but I can remember when she was about 15, we were flying at the airport and she said, dad, because the halflife of seed oils in the body is about four years in omega six fatty acids takes about four years to get out. We think, and it's a story about how we, how we've come to that. But effectively we think it's certainly not two or three weeks, but it is a long period of time anyway at the airport. And we got off and she said, oh dad, I feel sick. Can I have some ERs chips was, are available at the airport because, and then she sort of knew how I thought about chips and carbs and Cedars.
1 (58m 40s): And then she's 15 or 16. She said, dad, I promise not to get pregnant for four years. So what father is not going to actually hand over a few dollars to guarantee that his daughter, his teenage, daughter's not gonna get pregnant for four years. So, but what, but I love that. I love her, but I love that story because she has made an informed decision to eat that food. And that's what the vast majority of the people on the planet don't do. They don't, they don't have the information or what information we've, got's been literally made up by marketing non-science and therefore, and food guidelines have been completely corrupted by the food industry since October 23rd, 1917.
1 (59m 32s): And that's Linda's work when the formation of the American dietetics association. So when you realize that, that what our guidelines have been corrupted, it's really hard to make an informed decision. And all that's, all we are doing is putting out another side to the story and people can go, oh, that doesn't make sense, or it does make sense. But I keep coming back to the biochemistry. Here's the biochemistry of what food does to you when you eat. It doesn't matter if it's sugar or carbs or seeds. This is the biochemistry. This is how long it's gonna last in the system. If you want to eat fruit and I will have some berries at night, but I know that I'll be asleep when they're gonna make me hungry.
1 (1h 0m 16s): We have that in a granola mix, cuz that, you know, it it's, it tastes good, but I'm not having a handful of berries. I'm having four. And so therefore it's about giving people information that they can then make their own decisions based on. So I, I try and work out, okay, here's the biochemistry Belinda's work. And all of her talks on YouTube are all about why that message from the food industry and pharmaceutical industry and governments is flawed. And again, this is our research. People don't have to listen to it. They don't have to read it. Don't have to watch it. But gee, it's been an interesting journey for us and, and we are all healthier for it.
0 (1h 0m 57s): Yeah. And, and the best place to find you NBC on YouTube. I know you have no fructose dot anywhere else
1 (1h 1m 7s): Belinda's works on. I support gary.com.
0 (1h 1m 10s): I support gary.com.
1 (1h 1m 10s): She's got a new website coming called Belinda feki.com, which is her research. But I'm tweeting. We're both tweeting away, but the talks, which they've got more information on them are, are on YouTube before that gets taken down by, you know, darker forces. Yeah. We didn't even go there today,
0 (1h 1m 31s): So, oh, I know. I'll have to get, maybe I'll have your wife on. I would love that if she, does she do this or are you the spokesperson?
1 (1h 1m 37s): No, no, no. She she's much nicer than me. I think she's, she's got quite a bit of work coming up her way.
0 (1h 1m 47s): Okay.
1 (1h 1m 47s): Just been, she's been published. It's a great book. Just been published by Jane Baxton what's in just released her a few weeks ago called the plant-based con.
0 (1h 1m 55s): Oh, I thought I saw you. Yeah. I, I was looking that up cuz I thought that you posted something about that.
1 (1h 2m 1s): Oh, well Belinda's helped write a couple of chapters in that with Jane. Okay. And the fact that it's created controversy means it's probably on the mark.
0 (1h 2m 11s): Yeah, exactly. You never gave me your prediction. Who's your pick? The win though open.
1 (1h 2m 21s): Well, one of those things about H bit like horse racing and golf tournaments, I don't, I don't make next because I can only lose chances are I'm going to lose there. I'll say an Australian. Okay. There you are. I'll leave it at that. I'm
0 (1h 2m 37s): Okay. So you could have a, maybe I think Jason days playing or mark Leashman. Okay. We'll
1 (1h 2m 44s): Go with that. But, but I it's one, it's one group that we haven't gotten into to have a chats about low carb keto
0 (1h 2m 55s): It's golfers.
1 (1h 2m 56s): I, I hear that there are some players marking around with it.
0 (1h 3m 1s): Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised. I mean, nowadays, these guys it's so competitive these days, you know, and just to have a little bit of an edge when you're performing, if you could, you know, being in ketosis gives you that edge and unless you get into like a flow on the golf course, I'm sure I'm sure it's being observed. I had actually Scott Stallings on he's been on the PGA tour for a while and we didn't quite talk about like that, but we did talk a lot about health and he, he was one at one point fairly overweight and not going down a good path and has gotten his body back. And, but yeah, that's yeah, that's an interesting,
1 (1h 3m 40s): I mean we know that those athletes who are doing this, having less injuries, excuse me, just losing my voice after a while. Here's when you actually look at the damaged cartilage in a joint or the damaged tendons around joints, you find the end products of glucose metabolism, the location products of the, you don't find the byproducts of protein or fat metabolism. Yeah. And the, so the root cause of tendon and cartilage damage is byproducts of carbohydrate.
1 (1h 4m 19s): Metabolism is fascinating. So therefore, if we can, again, lots of anecdotal stories that just gotta be drawn into more and more data over time, but not a lot of money for research on this because nobody's making any money out of it.
0 (1h 4m 32s): Right. That's what I say about fasting.
1 (1h 4m 35s): Yeah. Where's the money. Where's the money in that.
0 (1h 4m 38s): Yeah. Right. Well, this was great. Dr. FKI. Thank you so much. I really enjoy talking with you and yeah. Dropping all this great knowledge on us. So I appreciate you coming on the podcast.
1 (1h 4m 50s): Oh, thanks for your time, Brian. Okay. You have a good afternoon. I'm gonna have a good day.
0 (1h 4m 57s): Thanks for listening to the get lean E clean podcast. I understand there are millions of other podcasts out there and you've chosen to listen to mine. And I appreciate that. Check out the show email@example.com for everything that was mentioned in this episode, feel free to subscribe to the podcast and share it with a friend or family member. That's looking to get their body back to what it once was. Thanks again, and have a great day.