Briany (1s):
Coming up on the Get Lean e Klean podcast.
Danny (4s):
And so again, a person would just, this would be so easy. I'm not telling people they should trust me. I'm saying they could measure their pulson temperature, and if those were low, I think they could infer that they had higher activity of the stress systems. And those systems liberate fat. But like a, a person on their deathbed is liberating tons of fat into their blood. They're, they're fat burners. Like that's the state of death. And so it's like the idea that we should like mimic that in some way is, is, and again, thing things I'm saying right now are not controversial. Like this is like pretty fundamental in like in basic stress research. And so I, as being a low car person and finding this out, I was shocked. I, I could not believe that so many people were saying that burning fat was some optimal fuel when, when it was so ingrained in the literature that this was like a, a, a response to stress, to slow the system down basically.
Briany (56s):
Hello and welcome to the Get lean e unclean podcast. I'm Brian Grn and I'm here to give you actionable tips to get your body back to what it once was, five, 10, even 15 years ago. Each week, I'll give you an in-depth interview with a health expert from around the world to cut through the fluff and get you long-term sustainable results. This week I interviewed independent health researcher coach, bestselling author, and host of Generative Energy podcast, Danny Roddy. We discussed how to live a pro metabolic life along with the importance of measuring temperature and pulse, Danny's experience with the carnivore diet, fat oxidation verse, glucose, oxidation, important labs to get measured ways to increase metabolism, and is one tip to get your body back to what it once was.
Briany (1m 43s):
Really enjoyed my interview with Danny Roddy. I hope you do too. Thanks so much for listening and enjoy the show. All right. Welcome to the Get Lean ean podcast. My name is Brian Grin and I have Danny Roddy on welcome to the show.
Danny (1m 58s):
Thanks for having me. Pleasure.
Briany (2m 0s):
Yeah, thanks for coming on. We were just talking, I've had one of your sidekicks, I know he's on your podcast, have been on it a bit, Jay Feldman on it, on your Generative Energy podcast,
Danny (2m 13s):
Correct? Yeah. We, we swipe that name from No, no, no, that, that Jay is on bio eject helpline and then Georgie Dinko is on the generative energy. And then I have like a revolving door of people I really like and respect that I, I try to get on there.
Briany (2m 27s):
Yeah. Not
Danny (2m 28s):
Jay. I don't, I don't, just kidding.
Briany (2m 33s):
Yeah, I know you Georgie. I listen to him talk. I'm like, wow, he's smart. Like I can't keep up with him.
Danny (2m 40s):
He's a powerhouse. Yeah, he's a Bulgarian wizard powerhouse of information. Yeah, the bio perspective.
Briany (2m 47s):
Yeah. And, and on that point, why don't, why don't maybe explain the audience a little bit about the Biogen perspective, like sort of this, this pro metabolic life that, you know, I know you talk a lot about in your podcasts.
Danny (3m 0s):
I, I think it gets, gets to the heart of like, what is health and like what is disease? And so it is like kind of staggering that in the health world. You, you find out how few people are actually even answering that question. For example, like I cut my teeth in the low carb space, but like I, I would, I would, it would be hard for me to even think of if they had like a uniform, uniform idea of like what made a person healthy and what made 'em sick. And it's like, what if you just don't eat carbs? Are you there for, are you now healthy? Like, it, it, it, and then that usually all these doctors would be like, oh, well we have like markers and stuff like that. Then, then if you have a low C R P or something, you're gonna be healthier. Something like that. But it, it's just didn't seem like a cohesive wor worldview.
Danny (3m 42s):
And so I can't, I think I found rain maybe like late 2010, but like I didn't understand anything he was saying for a long time. But there, there's something about him and about his like point of view about health and disease that was way more like cohesive than anything. I had confronted before that and I was like, oh, okay, so like a child is like a healthy child, maybe not today, maybe in like the 1950s or something. Like that's what, what, what an aging adult should try to emulate. They have proportionally more like pregnant alone progesterone in D H E A and those are like the steroids that erode in a person's 20 and thirties and forties and fifties and et cetera. And those are the steroids that protect a person from stress.
Danny (4m 23s):
They're produced when a person has higher thyroid function. And then higher thyroid function is usually represented by like a high pulse or a high temperature. And, and if, if you go to a five year old, even today, they'll probably have a heart rate of like 90 beats per minute or something, and they're, they're very warm. And so those things are lost in adulthood. And so I, I thought Ray's basic argument of like trying to support the metabolic rate and, and that led to less metabolic stress. That was just really compelling to me because for, I kind of skipped over it, but my personal experience of being cold all the time and stuff like that. And so I was like, man, this guy's just doing something that I really haven't seen done anywhere else.
Danny (5m 4s):
And, and just the, the guy, his, his demeanor and stuff was so unique and cool and it's just like a cool, humble, really unique guy. So it was just a, it was like a confluence of things, but it, I I think getting into it, it, it's hard, it's hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube. Like you start really noticing, noticing all these deficits in other people's, like POVs of health and, and it's hard to take 'em seriously. I think after you get into the, a lot of Ray Pete still.
Briany (5m 35s):
Yeah. I think the definition of health, like you mentioned, can be a bit skewed nowadays just because of like social media, like with Instagram and everyone looks like they have a six pack and you know, like there's, there's these unbelievable bodies and you're thinking to yourself, well, is that optimal health? I mean, what, what would your definition of optimal health be?
Danny (6m 1s):
There would be qualities, you know, like, like being happy would be nice of being able to sleep, not having a heroic effort to sleep, having obviously good level of virility,
Briany (6m 18s):
Hormonal balance,
Danny (6m 20s):
Having empathy, being like an altruistic individual, like a, a maslowian sense of hierarchy of needs. Like your health is so good that you have excess energy to spend on other people, you know what I mean? Like, and that, and that not only is good for, it's good for those people presumably, but also good for you. Like you feel fulfilled by helping other people. But yeah, you know, like I, I feel like that's like a huge problem in the health world. They'll be like, oh, you know, so-and-so is healthy. Like he eats this and he's healthy. It's like, how do you know that? Do you go to the bathroom with him? Like do you know his bowel desire? Do you, do you know how he acts when, or this person acts when they're cut off in line at the grocery store?
Danny (7m 3s):
Did they become irate? You know, like it, it, it, health is so nuanced, you'd have to spend a weekend with a person to kind of get a sense of their health, you know what I mean? Yeah. And, and then, and then some people in the health world are like absolute maniacs on the internet, you know? And, and so I don't really consider that like a, a great sign of health when a person's like, like fighting all the time on the internet and stuff. Like it's almost the more you withdraw from the internet, I would presume you are healthier, like if you got away from it. And so, dude, the the inter you got me started already, the internet health world is like the biggest, like the sickest place I can think of, you know, besides like maybe politics, internet health is like a close second to just s schizoa land and, and weirdos and psychos that all are drawn to like these debates on the internet.
Danny (7m 53s):
And so I, I would say I would recommend trying to get what you need from it and getting out as fast as possible.
Briany (7m 60s):
Yeah. And I know you mentioned briefly for a while there you were doing low carb carnivore for years. Was that true? And I mean, I've been in that space for a bit. I've done low carb and some fasting here and there and I, I like to switch it up and sort of find what works best. I, after talking with Jay, I have implemented some whole food carbs more into my diet just to see how I perform and just, you know, I also did blood work as well just to see how, you know, how I would react to that. So I'm in the midst of it. But what was, I, obviously, I'm assuming your experience, you know, low car has been sort of this big driving thing in the health industry for a little while now.
Briany (8m 40s):
What was your experience with it?
Danny (8m 44s):
I mean, it was better than what I was eating before, you know? Yeah. I think I went vegan in like 2007 or so, and then I got into low carb in 2008 and then you, do you know who Charles Washington is? He's like the zero carb guy even before Sean Baker anyways, like the, he, he, I heard him on like Jimmy Moore show a long time ago, and I was like, well, low carb is where it's at, so zero car must be even better than that. And so I went on that in maybe like 2008 and nine. And so, so again, it was, it's, it was good. It was better than, veganism is better than like the standard American diet, you know, like sure. When people tell me like, they feel better on keto or carnivore or whatever, I don't, I don't think they're lying. Like, and if you had asked me at the time, I would've told you I felt better.
Danny (9m 25s):
And also I was not lying. It's just like sometimes you don't know what you don't know. You don't know how much better you can feel, you know, or it's like being in a relationship or something. Sometimes you need to like step outside the relationship to like, have perspective on it. And it, it's very similar I think with like food ideological things. But anyways, so one of my huge problems on veganism was feeling cold all the time. Like I used to work at Apple Retail and they kept the store freezing cold and I, I remember what like being on the floor one time and these like young girls that work there having a shirt on and I had like two sweatshirts on and I was like, what the, my body can't like regulate its temperature at all. And so that was on veganism and then I went to low carb and, and things got a little bit better.
Danny (10m 9s):
And then I, I think I still had some digestive problems at that time and I, I like kind of being extreme where I did, I did at the time. So I was like, I think eating meat sounds cool, like only meat. Like I, I would love to shock people and tell them that I ate like only meat and stuff and see what they said. And, and also I kind of bought the idea that like the less carbohydrate you, you ate, like the healthier you were and I blamed like all of the diseases of civilization on carbohydrates and things. So, so I did that and I think I did feel pretty good the first year, like relatively. And then the second year I think I had some enhanced stressors in my life that I wasn't experiencing the, the first year.
Danny (10m 49s):
And they, like, they were like the straw that broke the camel's back and I was freezing cold. I was actually pretty heavy at the time of eating meat and water the second year. And dude, I was gonna get a huge tattoo on my back. Like I, I was gonna pay this cause I was still in a band, like of a cow or something. Actually it was actually of like the tree of life. Okay. And the tattoo artist was like so excited by it and he was like, go ahead and like, take a photo of your front and back and send it to me. I remember taking these photos and thinking look like I looked like a pile of old rags. Like I, I felt I looked so bad. And anyways, I, so there were a few things that caused me to reevaluate things and that sent me off the, on the direction of, there was another guy in the health world named Matt Stone and he was, he was, he wrote a book called like Eat for Heat and he was saying like, starches and carbohydrate are useful for increasing the body temperature.
Danny (11m 39s):
And I had like a limited amount of success with that, but it, it kinda like broke me out of the low carb confines and, and so I started thinking a little bit differently after that and then eventually ran into repeat and like kind of never looked back after that.
Briany (11m 54s):
Yeah. And you talk about temperature and pulse, those are good insights as to as far as metabolic health. Is that something you recommend people do, you know, maybe in the morning and then in the middle of the day or something?
Danny (12m 7s):
Yeah, yeah. Ray had a quote and it's like, you can't know where you are, you can't know where you're going if you don't know where you are. And so I look at like measuring the pulson temperature as like basic metrics for assessing like the, the rate of metabolism. And this is not me saying this is kinda like a Broda Barnes thing that was that thyroid doctor, he wrote a book called Hypothyroidism, the unsuspected illness. And, and, and so I think doing that in the, upon waking, like it's the first thing you do, like while you're in bed, that would be a, like checking your pulse with your fingers and doing a one minute timer on your phone and then getting like a cheap vix digital thermometer and putting your under your armpit doing that in the morning and then again in the afternoon, like the, apparently the, the thyroid has a circadian rhythm where it should be the lowest in the morning in heist in the afternoon.
Danny (12m 50s):
And so a person could get a re a relative sense of their, their thyroid function just by doing that test. And then also total cholesterol and vitamin D and prolactin and parathyroid hormone and ts h and like those are all useful tests too. And so, but the, those, the temperature and pulse are not, some people think it's like, oh, I won't do the temperature and pulse cuz I'm go going to go get lab work. But the temperature impulse don't lie. Like lab work is like a Jackson Pollock painting and it's like, I'm gonna show you this and you tell me what you see, you know, it's like 20 people would tell you different things or what they saw. And lab work can be so wildly interpreted differently by different people.
Danny (13m 30s):
And so like me going back and looking at all the tests that I had gotten from doctors, like I, I cannot believe these people have jobs. Like they, they let stuff, I was telling them I was like freezing cold and, and my ts h was relatively high, so is my cholesterol. These are like kind of calling call cards of low thy my plac high too, which are calling cards of low thyroid. And these, these like training doctors had no clue. It's just a sa sad state of affairs and that, and that's why we're all rushing because institutions have failed all of us is why we're having this conversation. You know, people are searching for what actually works because institutions are so terrible.
Briany (14m 6s):
Yeah. And you, and I know you talked a little bit about like, did you have some digestive issues? I mean I, I think sometimes that people have digestive issues and they end up getting into carnival and it actually helps because they're eliminating a lot of those gut stressors that they, they took on with like grains and things like that and even vegetables. Maybe they, they can't, they're not good at digesting, you know, raw vegetables. D is that part of the reason why you got into carnivore? Were you having gut issues or was it just something you thought was like the next thing?
Danny (14m 38s):
I actually say that in one of the videos I made, like i, I kind of give multiple reasons for why a person would feel real good doing carnivore. And it's like when you limit things to meat and water, you're cutting out so much like toxic shit in the diet that it's, it's, it's gonna be really helpful for the person, especially when they're having intestinal irritation, right? And so yeah, at the, I think I was, most of my life I was constipated and then when I went on carnivore, I didn't think of it as constipation, but I was having a bowel movement like every three days. It wasn't like hard to pass or anything, right? So it was just like really slow moving bells. But I did that, that it was one of the reasons like I think a lot of times I would eat a food and have some type of negative reaction to it.
Danny (15m 19s):
And so I kind of developed the idea that I was allergic to most foods. And so I think that's what drew, that was one of the things that drew me to the, the carnivore idea because, because again, you can kind of like, dude, I can't find a reason not to eat anything, you know what I mean? Like, it's pretty easy at this point. I can make like a hypothetical like reason to do that. And, and if, if you're in the health world for that long, you realize there's problems with like every food, you know? And, and so what,
Briany (15m 44s):
Can you find something on start? You could find something on anything, right? Yeah. If you wanna justify eating, I don't know. I mean there was like, what a grapefruit diet for a long time, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just,
Danny (15m 57s):
Yeah, the, the cherry cure, the grape, the grape a juice cur, there was like all those old school diets of like one fruit. And the thing is, they all had some like success. And so I was actually talking about this with my last call, but one of my smart friends like 10 years ago is like Danny, a lot of the really successful diets all eliminate starch. So like the milk diet, the, the grape juice diet, the cherry diet, the grape fruit, like a lot of 'em were just excluding starch to an extent. But anyways, man, I went off topic what, what we were
Briany (16m 27s):
Talking about. No, that's okay. You were talking about, we were talking about carnivore and how it, how it can be effective in the sense that cuz it, it eliminates a lot of the, the gut stressors that could, that could happen. Got,
Danny (16m 37s):
Got it. I think the danger in u using it for something like that is it, it, I I kind of see carnivore keto is like a one-way street to like nowhere. Like you're just gonna, like, something I noticed very often was, well, a person would start at low carb, like a hundred grams per day or something, then they go to keto 50 grams, then they go to carnivore and they, and they, their problems, they'd just start like magnifying over time. And, and so it seemed like people were like digging holes for themselves and it, it was just getting kind of worse and worse over time. And so I would hypothesize or infer that like their metabolism is getting su more suppressed and suppressed over time and they're, they're, they're feeling the devastating effects of adrenaline and cortisol and things.
Danny (17m 19s):
And so it's, I I I, I mean I, I don't know when you got in this space, but like in 2018, carnivore became like extremely popular, you know, like Jordan Peterson was talking about it and then Sean Baker was on Joe Rogan and I can think of probably 80% of the people that were really popular in this space don't do it anymore, you know, and there, and there's reasons for that. And also this gets into like generational health. So Sean, Sean Baker, I think he's like a boomer, like Sean Baker can probably withstand the stress of the carnivore diet. Like he, he, he could with withstand stress that would like kill a zoomer, you know? And so, so I just think I, I think like not everybody is created equally in the sense that we're like, I had asthma as a kid in like free access to my albuterol inhaler and, and was just like in my room puffing this, like, so it's little things like that that can send a person off in a completely different trajectory health-wise.
Danny (18m 15s):
And yeah, I mean I could list a lot of different things, but the,
Briany (18m 19s):
You should have Sean on your podcast.
Danny (18m 22s):
He, he, out of the, I mean I mentioned STOs and psychos in the health world. I, he doesn't strike me as that. He seems like a really cool guy.
Briany (18m 28s):
I've had him on, I've had him on. Yeah,
Danny (18m 30s):
But he, he doesn't, I, again, the, I mean the bar is so low for the health world. The people in the space are crazy.
Briany (18m 41s):
You know, there's this, you know, argument in the low-carb space as far as like, or just in general fat oxidation versus glucose oxidation, you know, I think the, the idea and I, and I'm to, to blame or not to blame, but I, you know, the idea of burning fat for fuel just sounds like, okay, let's go there. That makes a lot of sense. I mean, I used to do quite a bit of fasting. I do think that like fasting can play a role in people's lives as far as giving them boundaries. I've sort of changed my point of view around it, but, you know, burning fat for fuel just sounds like just the best and the, and the hottest. What I know Ray Pete talks a lot about this, what's the advantage of being, you know, a gluco, glucose oxidator versus just being a fat oxidator?
Danny (19m 30s):
One of the things that like kind of shaped my perspective on that was there was a paper by a guy named like Wolf, and I can send it to you after this, but like it says, the enhanced Mobil mobilization of fat is like a fundamental res response to stress, like sepsis, aging, et cetera. And so this was kind of like, like Han Cellier, so that was like a pioneering stress researcher. Like he like coined the word stress in French or something. And, and so he, he would talk about how the hypoth the hormones from the hypothalamus pituitary adrenals, those hormones are like classical stress hormones and they all liberate fatty acids into the blood.
Danny (20m 10s):
And so it, it's almost like fat is like this backup fuel to slow the system down because the, the fat, the sto geometry or whatever, it's gonna consume more oxygen and prou produce less co2. And while the, most of the people in the health world think CO2 is like this waste product and the kind of the bio eject space, the, the CO2 is really important for the consumption of oxygen, the absorption of oxygen by cells, tissues, and organs. And so basically there's nothing wrong with it per se, you know, it's like a mechanism to slow the system down, but a as far as like it's somehow optimal, optimal or like burning sugar is dirty or something like that.
Danny (20m 51s):
Those are kind of ridiculous, I think. But like, it, it, it's like if, if a person wants to burn fat, I think they're going to have to amplify their stress systems. And I think that would cause deterioration over a long, long time, long term. And, and so again, a person would just, this would be so easy. I'm not telling people they should trust me, I'm saying they could measure their pulson temperature and if those were low, I think they could infer that they had higher activity of the stress systems and those systems liberate fat, but like a, a person on their deathbed is liberating tons of fat into their blood, their, their fat burners. Like that's the state of death. And so it's like the idea that we should like mimic that in some way is, is, and again, thing things I'm saying right now are not controversial.
Danny (21m 36s):
Like this is like pretty fundamental in like in basic stress research. And so I, as being a low car person and finding this out, I was shocked. I I could not believe that so many people were saying that burning fat was some optimal fuel when, when it was so ingrained in the literature that this was like a, a, a response to stress to slow the system down basically.
Briany (21m 58s):
And so, you know, if someone's obviously, let's just say someone's 15, 20, 30 pounds overweight, and I know that's just one marker, right? The but in their like, like, well, you know, they've had success, well, how should I phrase this? What, what would, what's the some of the things you would say to them as opposed to just, okay, well let's, you know, lower carbs, right? Which is a lot of times what happens? Would it be more just like eliminating processed foods, lowering like HOAs, things like that?
Danny (22m 32s):
I I, I think the people that I talk to a lot of the time are, have been down like every single diet in existence, you know? Right. And, and, and some of 'em, like I talk to su suicidal people on the reg and like, so I'm not, I don't find myself talking tons of about diet and things like, oh, you should lower carbs or increase carbs. Like sometimes that does happen, but I, I think it's more that like when the person's hit 30 or 35 or 40 or whatever, like so much damage has been done to them. I think a lot of times they're talking to me cuz they're interested in like my perspective on like taking thyroid or something like that. And so I, I think, I think that's why like, I don't really in consider myself like a diet person.
Danny (23m 12s):
I think that's just like one tool in the toolbox to increase the metabolism. Like obviously you have to eat and eating is important and I cook 100% of all my own food and I think it's really important, right? But I'm not, I'm not under the impression that like, if that person only ate better, all their problems would go away. You know, like I, I think the situation is too dire, too bad for that. And so, so if I did talk to somebody, I mean I do, I do talk to people all the time like that, but like for example, one person that sticks outta my mind, I was talking to 'em in LA and they got my name from somebody and they're like, yeah, I I wanted to talk to you because you're like a weight loss coach. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I don't, I don't even, I now barely ever talk about that, how I don't, I don't know how you, you that that's what that person told you.
Danny (23m 56s):
But anyways, we were talking and they had lots of like symptoms of suggestive of lower thyroid function. And anyways, I talked to them like three months later and they started taking T3 and T4 and they were like, okay, I have a bunch of questions for you. Like I've been losing about one pound, one and a half pound per week since I started thyroid and I have all these other questions for you. And, and it was just funny how like fast they had glossed by like the losing one pound for a week by only taking thyroid hormone. And I, I just thought that was funny cuz people are like killing themselves trying to figure out how to lose weight. But the, one of the mos of the right dose of thyroid is just that weight loss. And, and so anyways, I think those, those stress systems are the things that make a person lay down fat and, and, and alleviating those by increasing the thyroid function is one of the basic ways to lose weight or have a set point that's lower.
Briany (24m 47s):
Yeah. What, what are some natural ways to race thyroid and, and get metabolism going faster? What would you say?
Danny (24m 57s):
So, so somebody could get some lab work if they wanted, you know, just to make sure they could cross in their ts and dotting their eyes, but they could get like the parathyroid hormone measure and that's involved in metabolic syndrome and depression and like probably hair loss and probably a bunch of other problems. And so anyways you could get this P T H measured and one, one of the other problems with like kinda low carb carnivore diets is their super high in phosphorus. And so when a person has like a mismatch of phosphorus and, and calcium that chronically increases the need for the parathyroid hormone, which breaks down the bone, liberating calcium into the blood and then that tends to go into cells turning on inflammatory processes, overstimulating them.
Danny (25m 39s):
And, and so just getting that parathyroid hormone down with more calcium would be like a real low-hanging fruit to probably improve a person's quality of life. And so whether that was adding like parmesano regino cheese or milk or something like that or taking a vitamin D supplement or something like there are easy ways to lower that and improve the quality of life and, and so yeah, that would be a really easy thing that could be measured. Like it's not just like, oh Danny said to take more calcium for some unknown reason. They could get, go get their parathyroid and measure in fact credit to Sean Baker, I think he talked about this in one of his videos on like vitamin D or something. And I was like, whoa, that's pretty, that's pretty progressive of him. Cause I've never heard any carnivore people person maybe Paul Saladino mentioned at some point, but Ray's been talking about that for like 20 years.
Danny (26m 26s):
So it's, it's something that's really important.
Briany (26m 29s):
So typically phosphorus is high as you mentioned. And and ways to get it lower would be through more calcium or vitamin D
Danny (26m 39s):
And, and, and the sugars and the fructose and the sugars helps de deplete it as well. So that, that's another way to balance that ratio I
Briany (26m 46s):
Think. Okay. Yeah, cuz I, I remember hearing Jay talk about like orange juice, I'm like orange juice, I'm like, I didn't, you know, like ta talk to maybe touch a little bit on, on how juice can be beneficial and almost like an, it's like anti-stress, right?
Danny (27m 0s):
Yeah. I mean in one of the raise articles, I think he, he said the, the lack of availability for sugar is basically like the kickoff to the, the stress response. So like the blood sugar of how low it gets basically signals the liver to release its glycogen. And I think that acts through like adrenaline and glucagon and long-term cortisol and I think the, the hypoglycemia triggers the cortico trope, corticotropin release hormone, which activates the pituitary to release a C T H in cortisol in the adrenals and things. But yeah, like trigger, I, I mean, so the cor cortisol, the whole function of cortisol is to break down the tissues to provide glucose. And so if a person's just not eating much carbohydrate, they're going to increase their cortisol to make the glucose.
Danny (27m 45s):
And so I, I mean on some car low carb people have started saying, well that's a good thing then like it, I mean they'll take it, take it that far, but I, I don't know many people that think higher levels of cortisol are like life extending and also makes a person feel pretty bad and, and so it and causes brain damage and things. So that's, that's probably a long term issue.
Briany (28m 6s):
And cortisol is one of those things where obviously it fluctuates throughout the day. So as far as like measuring that, I mean it's, it's higher in the morning, right, right away and then it slowly decreases and stuff. If, I guess if it's not decreasing, that's probably an issue, but you know, when you get your blood work done, it depends on what you know, the time of day, right?
Danny (28m 26s):
Yeah, yeah. The dawn phenomena I think is when it rises and kind of wakes a person up. But so, so again, I would, I would say that if a person's temperature and pulse are lower, cuz cortisol suppresses the thyroid function, it's like one of those go longer on less hormones to slow things down. So that, that's like the whole, this whole picture is like speeding it up. We're slowing it down like low-carb, well almost everything they say is like slowing it down and, and that's like a philosophy or ideology I ideology about health of like, it's actually good to slow things down because you're a car and if you break down too fast, you won't last as long. So slow things down, like it's a cryotherapy and ice bath and stuff like that, fasting, all those things are in an effort to slow things down.
Danny (29m 8s):
And so the reason I think most pe people find the, like most low carbos find race stuff to be kinda like un tasteful is it's like the complete opposite. You're trying to speed things up, you're trying to like mimic the metabolism of a five-year-old. And, and that's like, you want the pulson temperature to be higher, like sugars are better fuels in every single way than fats. Like they, they help support mitochondrial respiration. The fructose like activates multiple points in the respiratory chain that are blocked by fatty acids or damaged by pfa. And so it's a, a, again, again, it's like a completely reworking of the, the paradigm or the frame of the frame. A person is like, like bioenergetic or rape people and low carvers are watching two different movies, you know?
Danny (29m 52s):
And so that's why they, it's hard to talk to each other because the, the values are completely different and, and that's why the, the buy-in to this stuff is super high and, and, and I, I think I saw a tweet from like somebody two days ago. Like, it, it, it takes a lot of work to assimilate it and I, I, I hardly ever see somebody like steelman kind of raise ideas. It just, a lot of times it just raks of them having no idea what they're talking about.
Briany (30m 21s):
I do like an occasional plunge, I will say now, you know, obviously that's a stressor. I understand that. I, I think it And, and tell me what your thoughts of this, I think like for example, something like cold plunge, which I try to use just as a tool, not like every day, but every so often at, you know, obviously if you're stacking a bunch of stressors, that's when you can really run into an issue. What, what are your thoughts around that?
Danny (30m 52s):
So, so regardless of what I say, I, you could take your temperature impulse before the plunge and then after and kind of see what was going on. But I mean, if a person had trouble sleeping that night or, or something like that, or they had like a really powerful adrenaline response, like I, I can't imagine how that would be explained as as useful or something. I, I I think sometimes a low thyroid person will like to do kind of like extreme stuff to feel more alive. And so like they kind of feel like blah most of the time. And so when they go jump in an ice bath, like their adrenaline rises and they're like, oh shit, I feel so alive. You know, or it's the same deal with like a long distance runner. Like they'll run so long that they get the, the runners high.
Danny (31m 35s):
And also I'm sure you can think of multiple people like this, but like, like chronically needing to argue with people. It's kind of like my, my life sucks so bad, but if I argue I'll kinda like raise the stakes of the situation and I'll feel better. And so I can think of many people I know that like, like that, you know. And so again, I I I think these are all even gambling or cheating on spouse or significant other, they're kinda like similar types of actions, you know, and or doing drugs or whatever. So anyways, I I think life can be stimulating without these kind of like risky degenerative types of things of like needing to increase adrenaline to feel good. Like I think just increasing the, the, the, the pulses and temperature, ie the thyroid function can make a person feel like a higher level of wellness without needing to do anything.
Danny (32m 23s):
And, and once they got there, if they jumped in an ice bath, they'd probably feel this terrible like it, it would cool their brain down their body. It, it'd just be probably pretty disastrous.
Briany (32m 32s):
Yeah, I mean I think you can probably, there's probably sort of a curve where if you, if you overdo something like that, if you're a generally healthy person and, and a, a functioning thyroid and you wanna occasionally go into a cold environment, I can't imagine that's gonna wreck that much. But obviously like you said, if someone is sort of has low thyroid and, and these other issues, it and just going in a coal pun just to feel good cuz of that doesn't make a lot of sense.
Danny (32m 59s):
Yeah. Like, like you said, accumulation, like we're all carrying around this like life bucket of stress of all the bad shit like that's ever happened to us, you know? And so it, it just depends on how fragile or weak the per person is, you know. So
Briany (33m 13s):
What it's go, I know I was just gonna say I wanted to ask you like what is your routine now? And as far as like, I know it's interesting cuz you start digging into Ray P stuff and there's not like this, there's not a ray repeat diet, right? It's sort of a, a arian lifestyle. Parian lifestyle. I've heard it phrased. So this university principle of like cellular energy and maximizing that. What, what types of things do you do as far as eating and, and just in general to, to sort of, you know, get the most of it?
Danny (33m 48s):
I don't think about it that much these days. You know, I take thyroid, I I drink a lot of milk. I, I drink a lot of coffee and add sugar to that and things. And so those are the kind of staples I, I'm kind of at the mercy of my, my buddy when he drives me to like Costco, I'm a I'm a complete bum and I don't have a car or anything, so I can't really go get my own groceries and, and I, I drink the opposite of raw milk, the h t milk most of the time because I don't really like, yeah, cuz of the, the, that milk won't last a long time. Plus, plus I'm a doomsday bunker person and so that will be better long term for, for having availability and
Briany (34m 26s):
Yeah, raw milk. I've gotten raw milk before. Yeah, it doesn't last that long. So
Danny (34m 31s):
Plus some
Briany (34m 31s):
People don't, you're, you're not opposed to it, are you?
Danny (34m 34s):
No, no. If a person digestible it will, it's fine, but like, but some people don't digest it at all. Like, it, it can cause really bad diarrhea. So I'm kind of, of the opinion like the best milk is the one that digests well and tastes good and I'm not like the, these like puritanical people where it's like if it's pasteurized, it's toxic and you need to drive four hours away from your location to go get raw milk. I think that that becomes completely ridiculous. And, and the, and also, you know, I've, I've, I I was pretty fortunate to travel around the world from like 2016 to just not recently. And like I, I was, I spent some time in the Philippines, they don't even have pasteurized milk. They have like only u t milk and, and, and same is true for a lot of other places in Asia.
Danny (35m 17s):
And I, I was just thinking like, oh, I'm in, like, I'm in southern California saying, oh, everybody should drink raw milk and you don't realize you're excluding like huge swaths of the world saying this type of stuff. And it's like, oh, the the, you have to have this one special thing that's not in this area to be healthy. Like, I, I just don't believe in that anymore. It's just there's lots of ways to increase the metabolism that have like nothing to do with food and, and even something like u h t milk, I think it's better than no milk or something.
Briany (35m 43s):
And you said you take thyroid?
Danny (35m 45s):
Yeah, yeah. I've been taking that for about 10 years or so, but there's two products in Mexico, one's called Sin Plus and the other one's called sin. And I have no, I don't sell supplements and I don't have any, even my buddy Georgie, he has a supplement company, but I have nothing to do with that. But it, it, those were kind of OG original Ray recommendations for a quality thyroid. And so I've been buying those for a long time and you can adjust it during winter and adjust it during summertime to, to keep the metabolic rate up and it's been super, super useful.
Briany (36m 16s):
Is that recommended for, would you recommend that for most people or just people who are hypo?
Danny (36m 22s):
Well, kinda the hypothesis here is almost everybody you meet is hypothyroid, like on a spectrum of hypothyroidism. So that, and so you could shake their hand and tell pretty quickly how cold their hand was and, and see if they were hypothy or not. But the, I I wouldn't say, oh, everybody needs to take thyroid, but because not a lot of people are comfortable with that, you know, so I I I'm kind of an advocate for doing things, do you feel comfortable with, so if the, if the calcium, if you, if you a person listening to this noticed that their phosphorus was super high and their calcium was really low, they should start there. Or if they got their vitamin D measured and it was really low, they should start there. But like some, a person might hearing this might be like me listening to Ray Pete and for the last like five years I was freezing cold and I was like, man, this sucks so bad, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take thyroid immediately to try to warm up because feeling cold is a really torturous symptom.
Danny (37m 14s):
And so, but I, I think 90% of the people I talk to end up taking thyroid and it's, it's a, it's a therapy like, like demands a person's attention. It's not like a take it and forget it kind of thing. I, I think a person has to be clued into what, what's happening, but there's like a learning curve and if a person sticks with it, I think mo most of the time people understand how helpful it's,
Briany (37m 37s):
And as far as eating, like are you trying to eat a certain way or is, I know I, you know, obviously I know there's not a per per seray diet, but are there certain things, I know you've talked about liver and oyster, there's certain foods that you sort of prioritize.
Danny (37m 54s):
Yeah, yeah. I try to eat those about once a week or so, like an egg or two every day cheese, like quesadillas, I've like basically run on quesadillas and so that, and there's like a cheap grape juice here and then a really high quality one. But the really high quality one is very expensive. Orange juice has been hard to find just the last like year and a half in general. I don't know what's going on with that. Like guava are widely available here, like chiro mos and longs and leches and things. So like kind of exotic type of fruits. So again, I get those when I have access to them. That's like another thing I didn't understand in my twenties is like you, you, you take advantage of the things you have access to like being in Japan or whatever, whatever, like I take advantage of the foods that are good there when I was there.
Danny (38m 40s):
And the same for Malaysia or the Philippines or wherever and, and everybody has access to different stuff. And so it's just, I I I kind of think of Ray's dietary stuff as not as some perfect diet that people should aspire to eat. It's more about not being poisoned. It's like more that these foods are semi reliable for not containing a bunch of additives that are going to like harm a person. And, and so I that, I think that was like a major paradigm shift for me is understanding that the food supply is so bad that like that again, just eating meat can be really helpful, you know, to, to a lot of people. And so like a long time ago, maybe like 2012 or something, I I, I made like a series of blog posts called the Lens of a Parian and I was trying to explain like why Arianism helped some people and why like Carism helped some people and, and a lot of them have overlapping things, you know?
Danny (39m 34s):
And so I think something like Ray's, like big picture idea explains a lot of stuff, explains a lot of things about different dietary approaches and why like, being out in the sun makes a person feel good and why like having something that you're like, there's a quote from Abraham Maslow, it's like the only people I know that are happy are doing something they feel strongly about or feel like is important. And so all all things being equal, if a person had just like terrible nutrition but was like real, really felt like they were on their life trajectory or fulfilling things they needed to, like their health might be better than the most ardent carnivore person that felt purposeless or something. And so there so much goes into it and, and once you, I think a person acknowledges how complicated, it's like the, the dietary war stuff becomes way less appealing I think.
Briany (40m 21s):
Yeah. And he talks about like obviously sugar, aspirin, calcium through, I mean calcium is, is your best way to get calcium. Would you say it's through milk or would you say through supplementation or even leafy greens? Yeah,
Danny (40m 35s):
Milk or cheese or spinach or well cooked kale or calcium carbonate. Like I'm not a big supplement guy, but that I think that's warranted to supplement if it was really low.
Briany (40m 47s):
And then we talked about red light. I just was telling you all here before we got on, I just got red light therapy, whatever you wanna call, what was his thoughts on red light?
Danny (41m 0s):
I think a huge prop proponent of these chicken lamps that I have behind me. And so I I, the one kind of beef I have with the red light industry is they make these big things that are like $900. Yeah. Like these lights behind me are like $30. And, and so that's another thing I love about Ray is like kind of the Dave Asburys of the world are like catering to this like elite mentality of health of what it, what you have to be a billionaire to like buy all his junk. And, and, and I, I just don't think health has, it's like only for rich people, you know? And, and Ray's whole intro into the health world was trying to like help low lower socioeconomic people like, like get, get better health. So, so presumably they could rise up and overthrow like the, the bad stuff that was going on.
Danny (41m 43s):
So it, it, it's, I just, I just, yeah anyways, $30 chicken li for some $900 juve light or something like that. And I, and honestly I think these chicken lamps are probably better. Ra Ray was making the case that the incandescence give off inconsistent spectrum that's more similar to sunlight and he was saying at least in a few experiments with the LED d red lights, they could cause cancer growth. And so he, he was saying the LEDs were more similar to like E M F and that they weren't always safe. And so, so again, a situation where the the cheap six 30 $60 thing is gonna be superior to the thousand dollars lamb.
Briany (42m 22s):
And what about like, couple other things that I know he is talked about coffee, you like coffee? How, how is he, I mean, coffee obviously, depending on where it's sourced probably plays a big role as far as how, what are your thoughts around that?
Danny (42m 38s):
I, I have like real limited access to good brands of coffee here, but Okay. Yeah, I don't, I like, I I, I haven't, I don't have a super strong opinion on it. I kind of buy the ones that I like and those happen to be like organic varieties, but I don't even know how important organic is these days or what that even means. But yeah, the, I think the biggest thing with coffee is if a person is under stress and they drink like black coffee, that's likely to lower their blood sugar and kind of cause the rise in adrenaline that makes a person real shaky. And so I think, I think the, the coffee being like this double-edged sword, it, it should probably be diluted with heavy cream or milk and sugar should be added to it to, to not like lower the blood sugar.
Danny (43m 19s):
And so I think that's like kinda the biggest rub against coffee is using it black. Hmm. And so, and then if, if it's like, if a person's using it because they think they have to or something, it's always causing problems, I I would just recommend dropping it or something. It's like not, it's not worth feeling horrible all day or something because Ray drank five cups of coffee, therefore I need to, or something like that. Right. I I used to think like that.
Briany (43m 43s):
Yeah. I mean I feel like if you rely on it too much then it's probably not a good thing if you feel like you're, like, you need it to get going for the day, you know, I, I try to use it. I'm not a big coffee drinker, but I'll use it strategically. I'll actually add salt to it and do that like pre-workout.
Danny (44m 1s):
Yeah, yeah. It it, the one the, so I was never a coffee drinker until I found out who Ray Pete was and even then it took a long time to integrate it into things. But the one thing that kind of turned me over was it being a source of magnesium. I didn't know that and but, but like a strong cup of coffee can con contain like a significant amount of magnesium. And so every, anybody that's been in the health world long enough, they know that magnesium is kind of hard to get on any diet and, and so ha having coffee as a source of magnesium is pretty useful.
Briany (44m 31s):
And then lastly, what about saturated fats, thoughts around that? I know with the Ray Pete, he wasn't like a huge high protein guy where he's more like a moderate protein approach.
Danny (44m 43s):
Well yeah, that was a major thing that he kind of shifted on to towards the end of his life. I thought it was, if I had a few questions to ask him, I think a lot of them would be about that. Okay. Just cuz I thought it to be, I find it more fascinating now than when I had access to him on like the podcast to ask him about it.
Briany (44m 59s):
Did you have him on your podcast?
Danny (45m 1s):
Yeah, we talk, we talked to him all the time. It, it was, it was, it was what made 2021. Those were such shitty years and like 2021 and 2022 were so special because he, he, we had him on so much, we, we were like spoiled. We had him on so much, it was just like crazy. What was your que about? Protein.
Briany (45m 19s):
Oh, saturated fats.
Danny (45m 20s):
Oh yeah. I think he was huge. Like the, the PFA I think to him was like the most wrecking, devastating thing in our, that had been added to our food supply. So there's like, I'm sure you've seen it, but like there's a reference that says from 1909 to 1999 the amount of soybean oil and the diet went up a thousand percent. And so, so again, just, just eliminating that would probably improve everybody's health like tenfold. You know, we probably go into some like utopian society just by getting rid of these vegetable and cereal oils or something. So I, I think those are the things that are accumulating in the body causing like cellular injury, amplifying the hypothalamus pituitary adrenals.
Danny (46m 2s):
Like if we had pure saturated fat in our body, I think when we'd encounter stress like a mismatch between our resources and the demand and available resources, we, those sy same systems would be activated and we'd release saturated fat into the blood. And I think that release of the, the, the saturated fat into the blood would over time terminate the hypothalamus pituitary adrenal reaction. So it would be like self-limiting. But because I think we have PFA in our tissues, those tend to like amplify the, the stress reaction. And so I think that's why again, fo focusing on the stress, energy whole whole concept is so fruitful because everybody, I mean, if you ate just a normal western diet for a certain amount of time, you'd probably have lots of unsaturated fat in your, in your tissues and you could do, I guess you could do a biopsy to check or something, but I don't know if it'd really be worth it.
Danny (46m 52s):
But yeah, saturated fat, like I just got two dogs. I don't know what they were eating for. I don't even know how old. They're like maybe two months or something. So I, I've been feeding 'em lots of coconut oil to kinda like dilute whatever they were eating before that, you know. And
Briany (47m 7s):
Does, does eating saturated fats help dilute if you're, if you've had a diet of fast food for the past 20 years, does that help dilute the, the amount of pfas that could be in your system?
Danny (47m 19s):
I, I think so. And it also helps like at least coconut oil. I, I think it has some like aspirin, like qualities like inhibiting the cyclo oxidase two enzyme that makes the prostaglandins, which is kind of like, one of the reasons PFO is harmful is that it can turn into these like hormone like fats called prostaglandins. And for example, one of the prostaglandins takes testosterone and aromatize it into estrogen. And so anyways, like coconut oil has like anti-inflammatory properties. And so I think that's, I think that's true of probably most saturated fats, but, but yeah.
Briany (47m 52s):
Is that what you I'm sorry. Is that what you cooking a lot? Do you cook in a lot of coconut at all or do you use something else? I
Danny (47m 57s):
Don't really love the taste that much, so I, I just use butter most of the time whenever I'm gonna cook
Briany (48m 1s):
Something. Okay. And when you talk about pfas, like industrial seed oils, you're talking like canola, corn, cotton seed, peanut, all those sunflower.
Danny (48m 11s):
Yeah. And they're just the easiest things to replace in the world. Like if a person we're gonna do one thing, I mean, and, and, and I, I mean just I doubt anybody's gonna miss their canola oil, like replacing that with coconut oil, like the, the refined version or even hydrogenated coconut oil like that, that would probably tastes better and I doubt a person I would miss it, you know?
Briany (48m 31s):
Yeah. You don't, well you don't even know it's in products. I think I was looking, I mean it's an, obviously I was looking at sunflower seeds, they're in sunflower seeds, they're in grapes. Well yeah, brown rice. So
Danny (48m 47s):
They're in grapes. The poof of
Briany (48m 48s):
Are in grapes. So five tablespoons GrapeSEED oil requires, oh, this is what I was looking this up. Five tablespoons of grape suit oil requires 625 grapes.
Danny (49m 0s):
Oh wow. Crazy.
Briany (49m 2s):
Five tablespoons of corn oil requires 98 years of corn. Oh my god. That's
Danny (49m 7s):
Super efficient process.
Briany (49m 8s):
Yeah. Sounds real efficient. Yeah, I got misread, I misread that for a second, but that, I just was looking that up. E interesting. So yeah, I, I try to cook in coconut oil or gh I like to use, gee, I don't know if you've ever used gh Buting,
Danny (49m 21s):
Have it stocked up for the
Briany (49m 22s):
Apocalypse. Oh dear. I didn't even wanna go down that road with you. That could be another hour. The apocalypse that's coming. Is it, is that why you moved to Mexico?
Danny (49m 33s):
Actually, I moved here in 2016 and so like, I, like, I like talking about political things, but I don't, I don't like, I'm not gonna kill somebody for like, not agreeing with me, but that, that's where people were getting in, in San Francisco in 2016. And so I was like, man, screw this. And I, I left and, and so it, I mean in retrospect it was real scary, but in retrospect it was probably one of the better things I've ever done because I was actually in Thailand when the Kronos stuff started and I was like, damn, I gotta go back to Mexico. Cuz the Kronos stuff was becoming like tyrannical really quickly in Thailand and it was really scaring me and, and so I, I had to come back here.
Briany (50m 15s):
Okay. Well Danny, this was great. I feel like we could probably talk for another few hours, but we'll, we'll leave it at that. What, what I, I asked this question to my guests and you could answer how you want, like what tip would you give someone that's looking to get their health back in order? And maybe they've been, you know, they've put on some weight, they're, you know, this is, they wanna sort of get back to where they were 15 years ago or 10 years ago. And we've probably talked about it already, but what, what type of, what initial tip would you give that individual?
Danny (50m 42s):
Really probably what we talked about earlier, like me measuring the pulson temperature or gathering some data and then kind of going from there, like Ray has a famous line, like perceived think act, so like trying to notice stuff about your body, thinking about why it's happening and then experimenting. And so I think that's like really the only thing to do with any of this stuff is it, it's like one thing to hear something that kind of makes sense, but the other thing is to experiment with it and feel no, feel a difference, you know? And, and that's why Ray was all about experience being like the source of tr true knowledge. And so I, I I think, yeah, I mean you have no idea how many ti people I've talked to you were like, ah man, I started with the carrot salad and now I'm taking thyroid and aspirin.
Danny (51m 24s):
You know, like, it's like that trajectory is so common and, and people never think they're gonna get there, but I think they feel good with the carrot, then they'll like add in carbohydrate or then they'll add in calcium, they'll feel better and then, and and, and things they'll have been dealing with for long periods of time will just go away or something. Like for me, I had like a really serious libido proms in my early twenties and when I added more calcium, they went away in like a day and I felt like I was struggling with it for like five years really. And so it, it was just like shocking to me of how some of these simple things fix major problems like in, in a weekend, you know? And so, but anyways, it's, there's a quote, I love, did I already say this by Buckminster Fuller?
Danny (52m 7s):
It's like I'm noting already said
Briany (52m 9s):
I, no, I don't know if you said it
Danny (52m 11s):
Well, I just hate it all the time. That's why I probably don't know. It's, I'm not, I'm not a genius. I'm just a tremendous bundle of experience. And so it's like the only thing you have to, to gain from all this stuff is just more knowledge about yourself. Like, and who doesn't want that? You know what I mean? And so, and know and knowing more about yourself just makes your life easier. So, and, and I, I really feel like Ray's stuff is a toolbox to actually allow you to learn something versus like some nonsensical theory about what our ancestors did that has like, no basically no relationship to your life whatsoever. And so I, I think that's just like kinda a useless framework to, to engage with.
Briany (52m 46s):
What about blood pressures? That's something you have,
Danny (52m 49s):
There's a series of articles by a name Dave McCarran who, who found that the thing linking low blood pressure and like diet was usually a deficiency of calcium. And so there's like a hormone that's connected to hypertension and high blood pressure called aldosterone that tends to rise when the parathyroid hormone rises when there's a deficiency of calcium or vitamin D or vitamin K or something. So, and then hypothyroidism, a hy hypertension is something else that can happen. So there that, that's like the constellation of bad things that happens when a person's low thyroid or deficient in calcium or vitamin D that that tends to coincide with high blood
Briany (53m 26s):
Pressure. I know you're not a big supplement guy, but is there a vitamin D, like vitamin D with k2 I'm assuming? Or is, is that something that one that you like over the other?
Danny (53m 36s):
Yeah. Yeah. Any vitamin D that's like just an olive oil or like a vitamin K that's just in olive oil. Like I, I'm like really not confident in M C T oil anymore. Like I think that can cause digestive problems for a lot of people. And so with supplements I think it's just important to be real judicious with it and, and not like, I think they cause more problems than they solve most of the time. But I, I think vitamin D and olive oil and vitamin K and olive oil, I think those are some like heavy hitter supplements that can improve a person's quality of life with not much effort. And if they find safe versions of them, yeah, I think those would be relatively safe to use every
Briany (54m 10s):
Day. Does Georgie have that in his line?
Danny (54m 13s):
His vi, his vitamin K is like my favorite. Like right now basically nobody is making vitamin K in olive oil and so he kind of did everybody a big up by making it. I don't, as far as I know, I don't think there's vitamin D is in olive oil. So I've been purchasing one from a company called Premier Research Labs, but the thing is like in like six or eight months, like this company could stop change the recipe to their vitamin D. So it's like this constant evolving process of finding stuff that's like not toxic. And so like right now that supplement is good, but who knows in four or five or six months or a year or something that's still good.
Briany (54m 47s):
What's the name of Georgie's Line?
Danny (54m 50s):
I think his vitamin K is called Quinone and it's Ideal labs dc.com.
Briany (54m 54s):
Ideal.
Danny (54m 54s):
You should be, you should be paying me for this advertisement.
Briany (54m 58s):
You should be getting a kickback. Yeah. All right Danny, this was great. Thank you so much. Best place for people to find you
Danny (55m 9s):
Probably on Telegram t.me/danny Roddy is probably the best place right now. Or the subs? I think it's subs dot danny roddy.dot com I think. I don't know. Okay.
Briany (55m 16s):
Something. I'll put some, I'll put some links in the show notes so people can find you in the work that you're doing. I appreciate you coming on and sharing all this knowledge,
Danny (55m 24s):
Dude. Total pleasure. Thanks for having
Briany (55m 26s):
Me. Yeah, thanks for listening to the Get Lean EAN podcast. I understand there are millions of other podcasts out there and you've chosen to listen to mine and I appreciate that. Check out the show notes@briangrin.com for everything that was mentioned in this episode. Feel free to subscribe to the podcast and share it with a friend or family member that's looking to get their body back to what it once was. Thanks again and have a great day.
