Brian Gryn (1s):
Coming up on the GETLEAN E Clean podcast,
Brian St. Pierre (4s):
A saying, we like to use this. Every behavior is an attempt to solve a problem. So just because a client is, let's say, eating ice cream and having a glass of wine at night, it's like, oh, it seems like such an easy thing to take away. The reality is that is serving a a purpose for them, right? Oftentimes it's helping to cope with shame, guilt, pain, fear, loss, whatever the thing might be. Humans in particular use food as a coping mechanism. So when you start looking through that lens of what is this solving for someone and how can I then help them solve it differently or better with a better long-term solution and utilize food more to like nourish and support the body, you know, you can help people change much more effectively.
Brian St. Pierre (50s):
So over time, I'd say we steered a less, we steered away from intense physiological intervention, though there's a time and a place for that and we talk about that stuff too and focused more on how do you help people actually make the changes they're looking to make.
Brian Gryn (1m 8s):
Hello and welcome to the Get Lean Eat Clean podcast. I'm m Brian Gryn and I here to give you actionable tips to get your body back to what it once was, five, 10, even 15 years ago. Each week. I'll give you an in depth interview with a health expert from around the world to cut through the fluff and get you long term sustainable results. This week I interviewed the Director of Performance and Nutrition at Precision Nutrition Brian St Pierre He leads a team of nearly 20 expert coaches helping individuals of all backgrounds reach their personal and professional goals. In addition, he has worked with a host of professional athletes and sports teams, including the San, Antonio, Spurs Cleveland, Browns US, Open, Champion, Sloane Stephens, and much more.
Brian Gryn (1m 53s):
We discussed the psychology of eating, along with Brian's Deep, Health Framework What, He Learned from Working with Professional, Athletes Precision, nutrition's new Sleep stress and Recovery Certification and his one tip to get your body back to what it once was. Really enjoyed my interview with Brian. He's a ton of great experience. I know you'll love it. Thanks so much for listening and enjoy the show. All, right Welcome to the Get Lean Eat Clean podcast. My name is Brian Gryn and I have Brian St Pierre on Welcome to the show.
Brian St. Pierre (2m 25s):
Hey, thanks for having me, Brian. Looking forward to being here.
Brian Gryn (2m 27s):
Yeah, thanks for coming on. Director of Nutrition and performance at Precision Nutrition. How many years
Brian St. Pierre (2m 37s):
Just finished my, well, I'm going on 12, actually going on 12 this month, June 1st, so yeah, it's been a long time.
Brian Gryn (2m 45s):
Maybe explain the audience what Nutrition Precision Nutrition is. I went through the one of their certifications, but to the people that don't know,
Brian St. Pierre (2m 53s):
Yeah, I mean we wear a bunch of different hats as a company. I'd say our main one is certifying other health and fitness professionals to do Nutrition coaching. That's, you know, by far probably our, our biggest service. So personal trainers, strength coaches, athletic trainers, and we can even get into the realm of like dieticians, physicians, you know, group X instructors, the whole, anyone that basically does any type of health counseling or training in some way, shape or form will often utilize our Nutrition coaching Certification to build their own Nutrition skills and then develop coaching skills on top of that in order to actually help people change behavior.
Brian St. Pierre (3m 36s):
So those, that's our biggest market. Then we have a bunch of continuing education courses to support that, to learn more and develop your skills. We have a health coaching Certification, so if you really wanna take it to the next level, we also do sleep stress and recovery. And then we historically actually started as a coaching company ourselves, like coaching clients and that's what got us into the Certification business. So was, hey, we could teach people how to do this and that became our bigger business. But we still coach clients cuz it helps inform our Certification, like, hey, what are we learning? What are we seeing? Putting things, new things into practice that we're learning from, from the research, testing out new ideas, right?
Brian St. Pierre (4m 19s):
So it just becomes like a, a cycle where we try things in our own coaching practice, learn from it, and then we put that in those learnings into our Certification. So that's kind of, yeah, it's what we do in a nutshell, I'd say.
Brian Gryn (4m 35s):
Yeah, and having a Certification like that, like updating it, how many times have you updated your Certification?
Brian St. Pierre (4m 42s):
I think we're on, we're on our fourth edition right now, So. we try to update it like it's not an exact science, but probably every three to five years, you know, as either as we've gathered some new learnings for something significant has shifted in our own practice or in the research, you know, or we just feel like, okay we've improved and streamlined thought processes and things and it's time to update our materials to reflect that. So it's usually about every three to five years.
Brian Gryn (5m 11s):
And what would you say some of the high level things that have changed over the years? I know it could be, could be a few things, but within, you know, Nutrition and performance and things like that.
Brian St. Pierre (5m 24s):
Yeah, I mean I'd say the biggest thing is, well there are a couple things. Like historically and many years ago when I started at PN, we were very focused on nutritional physiology, right? Like we had anytime meals and post-workout meals. So that was like the structure. Anytime meals were lower in carbs, higher in like protein, veggies and fats and then post-work workout meals were much higher in carbs All, right? We had all this like nutrient timing stuff mixed in there. And over time we just found, while that works, it's just more complex for people to follow and the more we're able to simplify things for most people, the more consistent they could be and the better results they actually got.
Brian St. Pierre (6m 6s):
People who were able to follow that post-work workout anytime approach did great, but there was a higher rate of attrition by people had a harder time following it. And So, we became more Nutrition agnostic. We found that there were lots of different ways to help people get good results. Whether that's eating Mediterranean, keto, vegan, you name it, we can help you do it better. In addition to that, we found what helped more than anything was behavior change practices, right? How do you, you can know all the Nutrition information in the world. You can have a PhD in Nutrition and be terrible at Nutrition coaching cuz you don't know how to communicate to humans in a way that's gonna facilitate them changing their behavior.
Brian St. Pierre (6m 47s):
Cuz behavior change is hard. It, it fundamentally, truly is. Cuz there are lots of reasons why we do the things we do, right? A saying we like to use is every behavior is an attempt to solve a problem. So just because a client is, let's say eating ice cream and having a glass of wine at night, it's like, oh it seems like such an easy thing to take away. The reality is that is serving a purpose for them, right? Oftentimes it's helping to cope with shame, guilt, pain, fear loss, whatever the thing might be. Humans in particular use food as a coping mechanism. So when you start looking through that lens of what is this solving for someone and how can I then help them solve it differently or better with a better long-term solution and utilize food more to like nourish and support the body, you know, you can help people change much more effectively.
Brian St. Pierre (7m 43s):
So over time, I'd say we steered a less, we steered away from intense physiological intervention, though there's a time and a place for that and we talk about that stuff too and focused more on how do you help people actually make the changes they're looking to make. Because in our experience, most certifications historically focused on just the Nutrition physiology, Nutrition science, human physiology, which is important and fantastic, but if you don't know how to communicate to people and you don't know how to help facilitate change, all that information in the world isn't gonna get you super far. So, we provide both, more so than ever.
Brian St. Pierre (8m 23s):
We have Nutrition, Nutrition science, human physiology change, Psychology behavior change, skill building. We kind of give you the science and then the art of coaching and how to put that all together. So I'd say that that's been more of the evolution is adding more and more keeping the fundamental Nutrition science pieces and adding more of the coaching skills to actually get people to change. Because as the research shows over and over and over again, creating behavior change people can sustain is very difficult. So helping you develop the skills to do that most effectively is what will be the best bet for you.
Brian Gryn (9m 1s):
Yeah, I love that. And, and I did notice that with your Certification it's, you know, there's a lot of Psychology and, and behavior mod and to create behavior modifications, you have to sort of dive into that. What would you say some of the, I know everyone's obviously a little bit different in their past and, and why they eat a certain way, but what would you say some of the biggest levers are that people could do to help, you know, change that habit that they, they've been doing for 20, 30 years? Maybe not certain. Yeah,
Brian St. Pierre (9m 31s):
Well I, I think I actually would take it back to the statement I said before. Like if you start looking, this was the biggest change for me as a coach and actually Dr. Krista Scott Dixon, who I know you've had on your show, taught this to me when I first came to pn, you know, 11 plus years ago. That every behavior is an attempt to solve a problem. And it just as a coach was like, blew my mind because you would get frustrated like, oh, why you, because before I would think of things as like self-sabotage, right? A client's doing this thing and it's impeding their ability to make progress towards their goal. you know, it would just frustrate me and it would frustrate them. But once I had that new frame and that new lens, okay, this is attempting to solve something for them. This is serving a, a purpose for them currently, maybe not, well, certainly not well in the long term, but it's serving an immediate need.
Brian St. Pierre (10m 19s):
And if we could figure out what that was, even if we didn't know exactly right, a client's not going, oh, I'm having ice cream because I'm, it's making me feel better about X, Y, and Z thing. It's not necessarily a logical conscious choice. So, we don't necessarily even need to know the exact problem it's solving. We just need to recognize it's solving a problem. Okay? And then how can we help solve that differently? Right? What is this giving you? Oh it's making me feel relaxed at night or you know, whatever the thing might be. Okay, what's another way we could do that? and we talk through options. And so to me that is, as a coach, fundamentally the biggest thing you can do. It was the biggest thing I saw in my own coaching practice.
Brian St. Pierre (11m 1s):
And it's the biggest thing I've seen in all my years. Like going out and doing workshops and presentations and having people go through case studies. It's the biggest light bulb moment I see for people when we go through stuff like this. Like, oh my God, I have all these clients and it never, you know, it never occurred to me that this was serving them well in some way, even if it's a very short term benefit. It just fundamentally alters how you look at client behavior, how you look at the client in particular and then you can now go about solving it much more effectively. So to me, as the coach, that's the biggest intervention you can make or the biggest change you can make in your practice.
Brian St. Pierre (11m 41s):
Because for clients there's gonna be infinite reasons why they do the things they do, whether they're aware of them or not. And the second thing I would talk about is a frame we often use is to look at things through what we call a deep health lens, right? To help clients look at behaviors through a broader lens than how is this gonna impact my physical health? Right? In our experience, too often the fitness industry has pushed people to focus almost solely on physical health. That's been changing over the past couple years. There's been a lot more talk about mental and emotional health, right? Professional athletes taking breaks for their mental and emotional health. I mean Olympic athletes, I feel like the narrative has finally shifted there a little bit, which is fantastic because too often historically people have focused on, okay, I'm gonna do this thing, right?
Brian St. Pierre (12m 31s):
Whatever it is. Eat keto, go vegan. I watched a documentary, I'm gonna try this thing, it's gonna help me lose weight and reach my goal. Okay, great. But how is that gonna impact your social and relational health? Right? How is that gonna impact your mental and emotional health? If you suddenly start, you know, going keto and everyone else in your family is Italian and loves carbs, is that gonna create conflict? And it might, it might not, right? But we have to ask the questions. So look at things through a broader lens and we use a Deep, Health Framework where we focus on six aspects or dimensions of health. So like physical, mental, which would be like cognitive, emotional, existential or spiritual, environmental and social.
Brian St. Pierre (13m 13s):
And you ask these kind of questions, okay, if we try this thing, how do you think that that'll impact? I, I'm very confident as a coach that's gonna help move you towards your physical health goal. How is it gonna impact your overall deep health? How is it gonna impact these other aspects or dimensions of your health or your life? And it suddenly changes their perspective on, well I really wanted to try this thing, but it might cause a conflict with my partner, with my kids with, might be really difficult to pull off logistically in this way. Suddenly you change, you broaden that perspective, you zoom out a little bit and you see how it's kind of impact you in multiple areas. Cuz too often what we see historically is people follow that program for a short period of time cuz they can like knuckle white knuckle their way through it, make progress towards their physical health goal, but then it sucked and it caused all kinds of problems and other aspects of their life.
Brian St. Pierre (14m 6s):
So, they stopped doing it and then what happens, right? They revert back to where they were So, they make progress, they come back, they make progress, they come back because they weren't looking at it through that broader lens of how is this gonna impact me elsewhere. So if you now look at things through that lens and you can make decisions that maybe will take a little longer to move you towards your physical health goal, but that will actually improve your overall health and wellbeing, what we call deep health, that'll be much more sustained, right? Because it's actually improving your overall wellbeing in other aspects of your health and life. And so that's gonna be progress that stays with you as opposed to rapid progress, revert back rapid progress, revert back rapid.
Brian St. Pierre (14m 48s):
So I'm not even sure if I answered your question, but I think those are two fundamental things that can really help people make sustainable progress regardless of what the thing is they're trying to change.
Brian Gryn (14m 59s):
Yeah, no that's great. And and like you mentioned, like most people do go on that like yo-yo dieting and come on something and then off it. And I always say like, like just as far as like working out, let's just use that as an example. Like people go gung-ho you know, they're, they're in it for, they, they're five, six days a week and then they burn out after a month and
Brian St. Pierre (15m 22s):
Right. Cuz they went from, they like went from zero to 11, right? Right,
Brian Gryn (15m 26s):
Right.
Brian St. Pierre (15m 26s):
Went past 10 all the way to 11.
Brian Gryn (15m 29s):
Yeah. Instead of, okay, let's just work out twice a week Right. And do that
Brian St. Pierre (15m 33s):
And we go from a zero to a four and then then maybe over time go from a four to a six. Right? And then maybe we settle in right at that six or seven. And that's, you know, if you wanna be an elite athlete, yeah you've gotta have that dial cranked up to a 10. If you just wanna like be fit and healthy and play with your kids or grandkids or go on a hike or what have you, it doesn't need to be six days a week. Right. And I think that's often the misconception of what's needed to reach a goal and sustain a goal. Those two things aren't often aligned. Hmm. So yeah. And then doing it in a way that you can sustain over the long term. So yeah, So, we love that dial method rather than, it's usually an on-off switch, right?
Brian St. Pierre (16m 16s):
I'm either not doing anything or I'm trying to crank it up six times a week to make up for not having done anything for a while. And then invariably, like you said, you burn out, how can we keep that dial at least turned up to, you know, a two or a three? So we're always doing something and then ultimately, like we can turn it up when appropriate. Sometimes it's okay to crank it up to a 10. You're training for something, you've got a honeymoon coming up or your wedding, right? There are, there are valid reasons to be more aggressive, but on the whole where can we settle that dial that fits your lifestyle, fits your circumstances, and then fits your needs.
Brian Gryn (16m 54s):
And speaking of athletes, I noticed on your LinkedIn profile you talked, it talks about how you worked with Sloan Stevens. I'm, I'm a big fan of Sloan Stephens, US Open Tennis Champion. What did you learn from working with her?
Brian St. Pierre (17m 9s):
She might not love this, but she, and she knows this though, she was the pickiest eater I've ever worked with in my entire career. Really? Which, which made it actually was incredibly rewarding in the end cuz it forced me to have to think harder and differently and outside the box in ways I hadn't in, in a while. and we did all kinds of stuff. Like we flew in a chef and did taste testings and what are we gonna find that she likes and we can pair together. But it actually ended up being like super helpful for me as a coach cuz it's easy to get into like, I don't wanna say a rut, but maybe a routine of like, hey, this is what we do. This is how, this is how that'll help you.
Brian St. Pierre (17m 50s):
Particularly with athletes, it's easy to kind of fall into that trap I think a little bit because they're more apt to just do a thing like they're used to getting coaching, Hey tell me what to do. And I just kind of do it. So athletes are, are more in that mold in general. And Sloan was not in that case. So she was, but she was great. I mean she, once we found combinations that she liked, we actually ended up creating like a, like a matrix chart for her cuz we obviously the chef wasn't with her all 24 7. We would fly in the chef for like Gryn grand slam tournaments and things like that. But on her own, you know, with her in combination with her mom who was her manager and her and her other support staff, we found like, okay we created like a, a matrix of Proteins carbs, like veggies and fats that she liked and that she enjoyed.
Brian St. Pierre (18m 41s):
She could pair all of them together and it worked out okay and it took work to, to figure out what, what fit her, her preferences and what didn't.
Brian Gryn (18m 50s):
Was she, and then just sorry to interrupt. Was she, when you say picky, you mean like she would only eat certain things or she, or like, like certain, like was she like she wasn't vegan or vegetarian or anything like that?
Brian St. Pierre (19m 1s):
No, no she wasn't. No. So I'm like, if, if, if she had been, had a lot of food restrictions on top of, I mean she had some, cuz she had some intolerances and, and things of that nature. But really it was like in her mind, no, that food cannot go with this food like that, that I don't
Brian Gryn (19m 17s):
Care, like the pairing of foods.
Brian St. Pierre (19m 18s):
Which that's okay. But it certainly just created new challenges of like, okay, what can we do to still meet her protein needs and her carb needs and make it into a meal that was still nutritious and nourishing her supporting, her training, her recovery right. And things of that nature. So it just, it just took work and that's okay. And then, you know, ultimately we just found, we got into a good rhythm where we had this, this matrix and her mom would really help and they'd put, cuz she was very young at the time. She was early twenties, very early twenties.
Brian Gryn (19m 52s):
Oh what years did you work with her? Was it, I
Brian St. Pierre (19m 56s):
Mean the year she won the US opens, was that 2018?
Brian Gryn (19m 58s):
Yeah, 2017. 17, yeah.
Brian St. Pierre (20m 1s):
Yep. So I think we started in 2016 and, and then 2017. So yeah, I mean that was really, really what I learned more with her was okay, it just forced me to get out of my comfort zone as a coach. Like yeah, here are normal meal combinations that most
Brian Gryn (20m 21s):
Right
Brian St. Pierre (20m 22s):
Clients or athletes are on board with that she was not. and we just had to, to figure out new processes, new combinations, do the taste testing. And it was great for me cause I got to go to the taste testing too and my chef was awesome, right? Trying all this great food. I'm like, man, I'd eat all of this, but like ultimately
Brian Gryn (20m 40s):
Someone like that, I'm sorry, interrupt you. Someone like that, would she have to consume quite a bit? Like, I
Brian St. Pierre (20m 47s):
Mean she, you know, now she, it's interesting. Yeah, you say that, I mean, yes because of her activity level, but at the time she was coming off a, an injury and had gained some body weight. She didn't wanna have So. we were trying to, we were trying to thread the needle of like helping her reach a body composition that she was happy with that would help her performance for endurance purposes, speed, agility purposes. But we, we didn't wanna lose too quickly an increased risk of like injury, especially when she was coming off a significant injury So, we were trying to help with her recovery but still slowly bring like body weight, body comp down and improve in that area.
Brian St. Pierre (21m 29s):
So it was a little bit of trying to thread the needle there, which I, I feel like we were able to do quite well. Obviously she was able to to, you know, win the US open. But yeah, I mean she ate, what, what was interesting is when we first put together her plan, like we worked together with her and the chef and her team and she saw what she was gonna be like, you know, what the matrix was and how it was gonna work out. She's like, oh my god, this is, this is so much food, Brian, I don't think I can eat this much. She felt, cuz I think oftentimes people who don't know a ton about Nutrition equate volume of food with amount of calories. Mm. And it was, we had to talk, you know, I actually showed her through like, okay, yes, it's more food than you're used to, but it's actually fewer calories than you were eating, right?
Brian St. Pierre (22m 15s):
Because before she was having, you know, fried meats ate, drank a lot of like pineapple juice, other juices, which we kept some of that in there just for like her preferences and she really enjoyed it. So you gotta find that happy medium, right? But we reduced a lot of that stuff. So the actual volume of food, especially because we added more vegetables, excuse me, the volume of food went up, my total calories came down. So that was a little work, little push and pull between the two of us. Okay. Like we just treat it as an experiment cuz she was skeptical. I'm like, let's just try it for two weeks, see what happens. If it feels like it's too much food or we're not re making any progress towards your goal, like I will happily change it and we can try something else.
Brian St. Pierre (22m 60s):
So she tried it, took a little adjusting, but then after two weeks she had made some progress, like physically what we were looking for and she was getting used to the amount and she was like, okay, I'll, I'll try, I'll keep trying it. And then it just kind of snowballed from there. And then she was actually more, got more consistent of course as she saw results occurring. So, you know, but I think that was a key framing was let's just treat it as an experiment. We'll try it for two weeks, Sloan, and we can always pull it down, but I'm reluctant to go too low coming off there. You're still recovering from the injury, right? Like, I wanna make sure that continues to heal as you're able to ramp up your activity. Right? So, we kind of talked through like the pros and cons of eating less and the risks that could entail.
Brian St. Pierre (23m 43s):
So that's why she was willing to try it for two weeks.
Brian Gryn (23m 47s):
Yeah. And and like you talk about like self experimentation a little bit, right? Like I always say that's you're your best should be your best patient. Like, like you nowadays there's all this nutritional dogma that goes on about what to eat and when to eat. But like I'm always trying things, you know, not all the time cuz you wanna stay somewhat consistent, but like, you know, I've done periods of time where I've done more fasting and then Now I, I'm not fasting as much and I'm trying to find times, you know, when, when like certain meals like fit like my workouts and things like that. Like how important is self experimentation?
Brian St. Pierre (24m 24s):
I mean, I would say depending on the individual, but in general, like pretty important. You gotta find what what works for you, right? Cuz too often, like, like I said before, we teach being like a nutritional agnostic as a coach, which means I'm not married to any one approach. There are multiple different ways for people to make really good progress and be healthy and eat well. And the key is, like you said, finding the approach that you can do most consistently, right? So with that ha with that said though, oftentimes that requires self experimentation to figure that out. And oftentimes a client will come to us and be like, okay, I really wanna try this thing.
Brian St. Pierre (25m 6s):
And I'm like, inside. I'm like, okay, I'm a little skeptical of that being a thing, but on the outside I'm like, okay, well what in, you know, I'll explore, do some exploratory questions, what interests you about it? And if they're really gungho it's like, okay, hey, let's try this for a couple weeks and see how you respond. and we have like a, a questionnaire, like basically it essentially asks how's that working for you through a series of questions. Okay, it's called like our diet satisfaction assessment or you know, has some more formal name, but fundamentally it's quantifying, how's that working for you in different aspects of your health and your life? And then we'll go through that and then oftentimes they're like, yeah, this works, it was working great here, but man it's been difficult with this and this or that.
Brian St. Pierre (25m 46s):
Or sometimes to my surprise, like this has been awesome. I love it. Right? Like I, we actually just had a, I just had a family reunion this weekend with my mom's family and I'm talking to an uncle I haven't seen in a while who's made some great changes and which I never bring up, but people wanna talk to me about it. They know what I do. So he is telling me all about it. Like he's been needing keto for like the past year and he loves it. He thrives on it, right? But, but like a lot of people who have tried a new thing and found it successful, I said, I don't understand why everyone doesn't eat this way. Like, well, like n equals one, you know, I didn't explain it quite like this, but in my mind n equals one doesn't apply to everybody, right?
Brian St. Pierre (26m 27s):
It's working great for you. But when we look at the bigger picture, you see people who feel that way and do really well on total opposite approach, right? Like a whole food plant-based or Mediterranean or paleo or you name it, you can find supporters of an approach.
Brian Gryn (26m 44s):
Yes, very true.
Brian St. Pierre (26m 45s):
Which tells us that there are many ways to be successful, right? There's not one universal solution. And so how can we help people find the approach that fits their current circumstances, preferences and needs, which go, which requires some level of self experimentation.
Brian Gryn (27m 4s):
Yeah, I agree. I mean I've not this, well this interview will come out before, but I'm gonna have like a carnivore on and then I have individual sort of some of the other sphere where, you know, believes that carbs can play a positive role in your health and we're gonna ha we're gonna talk it out And. you know, the thing is we, we'll never come to a conclusion really because you know, they each believe one way or the other. But like you said, everyone's gotta sort of figure out like what, what works for them, what's their journey all about? you know, it's interesting, I'm just looking at some of your, your posts and this one was about a, a sort of these different ways of eating low fat, Mediterranean, keto, paleo, plant-based, but stick, stick to the fundamentals, right?
Brian Gryn (27m 47s):
Like you, they
Brian St. Pierre (27m 48s):
All have Yeah, yeah. That's a great, they all have fundamental underpinnings, right? Like I know exactly what what you're looking at.
Brian Gryn (27m 55s):
Yeah. One
Brian St. Pierre (27m 56s):
Of my favorite images cuz the idea is right, they have all these people who, who believe in these various approaches thinking they're all so different and there are obviously differences, right? But there are fundamental commonalities among virtually all successful approaches, right? They all emphasize minimally processed whole foods, right? They all make sure you get an adequate amount of protein. Almost all of them recommend eating plenty of of vegetables and usually some fruits, but not always, right? There's usually some combination of either some healthy fats or quality carbohydrates in some way, shape or form. There's one of them or both. But ultimately it's minimally processed whole foods getting plenty of protein, usually getting in even carnivore.
Brian St. Pierre (28m 41s):
A lot of carnivore proponents are including small amounts of certain plant foods, squashes and things of that nature. Well now
Brian Gryn (28m 50s):
They're starting to add 'em back in. You're seeing this with the carnivores? Yeah.
Brian St. Pierre (28m 53s):
This is what happens if you've been in the game long enough. Yeah, paleo did the same thing, right? years ago it was really strict and then they slowly added, they added sweet potatoes and they added, oh, you know, grassfed dairy was okay because you almost always have to moderate and approach like that. Yeah. For it to fit a broader audience. Because the more restrictive you make it, the fewer number of people are gonna be able to follow it consistently. So I mean that's just the reality. The more restrictive or the more complex, the greater the decrease in consistency. So that's why you see something like Mediterranean, right? Which restricts very few things on the whole, it's a much more broadly accepted approach because it doesn't require as many sacrifices now it's less sexy in the sense that carnivore or original paleo or fully plant-based, it is crystal clear out of the gate, I can eat this, I can't eat this, which has its value, right?
Brian St. Pierre (29m 55s):
Because okay, I can eliminate some food decisions and just do a thing. There's value in not having to think about every food decision that you make,
Brian Gryn (30m 2s):
Right?
Brian St. Pierre (30m 4s):
But there's a longer term trade off where it's much harder to stick to long term because it's so restrictive, right? You go to a friend's birthday party, you go to a family reunion like I went to, you go to any social gathering, there's gonna be lots of things there that are like not allowed for you to eat. And that's hard, that's hard for people to stick to over a long period of time because food is a part of social connection, right? We've broken bread together and shared meals throughout all of human history. Food brings joy and pleasure. So if you're cutting a lot of that stuff out, it's gonna be much harder to follow. So ultimately follow those fundamental underpinnings that they all agree on and then find those elements, those differences that speak to you or appeal to you or are appropriate for your goals, right?
Brian St. Pierre (30m 52s):
If you're training to run a half marathon, you're probably better off eating some carbs, right? Something with carbohydrates, you know, if you're a bodybuilder or a powerlifter versus an ultra marathon or like, there are different physiological needs there, but ultimately for most people it's based on preferences. You get those, you get those fundamental pieces in place. Everything else is personal preference.
Brian Gryn (31m 17s):
Yeah, that's well said. I mean, you do see these extremes and I think part of it too is just the age we we're, we're living in in the sense that people need to, you know, they got, they wanna maybe market themselves a certain way and if you're not, if you're right, if you're blending you, you're, you're blending in, right?
Brian St. Pierre (31m 36s):
You're not gonna stand
Brian Gryn (31m 37s):
Out. You're not gonna stand out. And if you have a stance and it's really strong on one way, then you're gonna stand out and you're gonna attract certain people. So I think there's a little bit of that going on as well.
Brian St. Pierre (31m 48s):
100% always. And humans are always seeking out novelty, right? I mean that's part of how we're wired. So it stands to reason that people are going to A, seek it out as a, a individual who wants to coach people because it's, I wanna find a new novel approach and B, there are people who are seeking out to find a new novel approach because what they've done historically hasn't worked, right? So there's seeking out novelty is a normal human feature, but it's also, you gotta balance that with recognizing what about this seems valid and aligns with what every other successful diet does. And what about this seems like it's really pushing the boundaries of what makes reasonable sense.
Brian St. Pierre (32m 34s):
So I mean ultimately even the most extreme approach, like something like carnivore for example, follows some of those fundamental underpinnings, right? Minimally processed whole foods check, plenty of protein check. Those are probably the only two checks, but they're including, well
Brian Gryn (32m 52s):
Maybe quality fats.
Brian St. Pierre (32m 54s):
Yes, that's probably fair. Yep. Some healthy fats though they they eliminate other healthy fats. But yes, there are definitely healthy fats discussed and included and as we noted, it's already evolving, right? Right. There's already a, a movement towards getting in more of those fundamental pieces. Getting in more colorful plant-based foods, fruits and best
Brian Gryn (33m 16s):
Fruits. Honey is a big one adding into a lot. Yeah. Right.
Brian St. Pierre (33m 20s):
So you're seeing it evolve already, which is exactly what we would expect if you've been in this game a, you know, I've been around long enough, this is what happens with every new novel approach that comes in. It then moderates and evolves right, to broaden its tent and because it's really hard to stick to highly restrictive approaches long-term for most people.
Brian Gryn (33m 43s):
Yeah. Yeah. What are your thoughts around, I just had him on, hasn't published, although when this comes out it'll be out Chris Kenobi, he's a physician opt ophthalmologist for years and Nutrition researcher and there's quite a, not just him but quite a few other people talking about, you know, seed oils, you know, these vegetable oils that have sort of taken on, you know, sort of this rise from, you know, the 19 hundreds all the way, you know, from like Crisco all the way till today. And sort of blaming that on sort of what's going on with obesity. Any thoughts around that? Is that something that you guys have added into your trainings?
Brian St. Pierre (34m 20s):
I mean, to a degree. So there was a time in my career, probably like 10 years ago where I was more on board with that idea. Like seed oils being significantly problematic and I still don't think they're a, a phenomenal food choice, right? Because of the high level of processing they have to go through that high heat or chemical extraction that's required can lead to some trans fat formation. But when you look at the research on the whole, it doesn't support the idea that this is like some unique poison or uniquely significant contributing factor to, to obesity and stuff like that.
Brian St. Pierre (35m 8s):
So ultimately, you know, it's, I don't think they're the world's greatest health foods. If you look at, we have an an infographic and if you just google like Precision Nutrition what to eat, we, we label foods on a continuum rather than like good or bad. It's eat more, eat some, eat less.
Brian Gryn (35m 25s):
Yeah, I saw that
Brian St. Pierre (35m 26s):
Most seed oils are on the eat less, but that doesn't mean eat never, there are some exceptions, but in the grand scheme of things, would I put them like high on the list of, of problematic foods? I mean, yes. In the sense that they're used in a lot of processed things, right? Right. They're cheap to make. So it's, they're used to make potato chips and french fries and literally you name any processed food and you look on the ingredients list and it's gonna have a seed oil on it. Cause it's a cheap source of very, because of the high level of processing, they have a very mild flavor, right? So they're easy to add into highly processed foods. So from that standpoint, you know, they're not ideal.
Brian St. Pierre (36m 7s):
But from an individual food perspective, yeah, I wouldn't encourage large consumption, but I wouldn't be frightened of them.
Brian Gryn (36m 17s):
Right. I think how, yeah, and it's just, it's, it's a cheap way of cooking, right? Like restaurants use them, 99% of restaurants are using canola oil or sun fly oil or so, you know,
Brian St. Pierre (36m 29s):
Fat flour corn, soybean soybean is soybean oil alone makes up almost 10% of calories in the US diet. Mm. Right? So that in and of itself is a little concerning, right? This was a food that wasn't eaten really until like the 1950s and any significant amount. So, right. That's like, okay, but where does it occur? And highly processed foods. So if you're not eating a lot of highly processed foods, you're not gonna be getting a ton of seed oils anyway. So if you have a store bought dressing that has some seed oil, it wouldn't worry me in the least because it's about the big picture of your intake, right? And if that is your sole source or one of your few sources, it's not a big deal.
Brian St. Pierre (37m 13s):
It's when you eat lots of processed foods like the majority of the American diet is made up of, then it becomes more concerning because the amount of it, the proportion of it is. So I of whack with what we should be consuming. We're not getting enough like extra virgin olive oil. We're not getting nuts and seeds like other sources of healthy fats that we know promote health or we're quite confident promote health. So I think that's, that can be a concern when it displaces those types of fats. But they can certainly be included in moderate amounts in, in a healthy, I mean the research is pretty consistent that they're not independently problematic when consumed in, in normal amounts and, and super high amounts and in highly processed foods.
Brian St. Pierre (38m 4s):
That's a different situation.
Brian Gryn (38m 5s):
Now before we went on there, you mentioned that you're one of your newer certifications, sleep, stress and recovery. And you said it was one of your best ones. Maybe just give us a little window into that cer Certification and like what, what, what you learn from that?
Brian St. Pierre (38m 20s):
Yeah, I mean that was, so in the fourth edition of our Nutrition Certification You, which you've done, we have a whole like chapter on, it's like basically sleep, stress and recovery. And that was new, pretty new to that certifi, that version of the Certification or at least a significant expansion from the third edition. and we felt like, man, there's so much more to say here, but we can't cram it all into this one chapter or even into this Nutrition Certification, which is already long enough as it is. We'd really just love to like talk more about this. Like this is right, something that's just as important as Nutrition and it significantly impacts Nutrition right there. There are feedback loops when you're super stressed or you don't sleep enough, we know it's gonna significantly alter nutritional choices.
Brian St. Pierre (39m 6s):
So they're, they're interrelated and they feedback with each other. And when you eat really well, it actually improves mood and improves emotional regulation to help you manage stress better. So there's this, this back and forth, right? And So, we were trying to come up with a way to talk about, first we were trying to limit it to just stress, but we felt like we couldn't just talk about stress and we couldn't just talk about sleep as their own certifications. They just felt too interconnected. So, we kind of rolled it all together into sleep stress management and recovery about the science behind them, how stress manifests. and we use our, that Deep, Health Framework I talked about. We talk, well yes, we call it deep stress, right?
Brian St. Pierre (39m 47s):
Highly creative how you can, how you can have stress in each of those different dimensions or aspects of your life. Emotional stress, social stress, mental stress, right? Like too many cognitive demands. Social stress, like social rejection or you know, death of a loved one could be like envir, like existential stress, despair, depression, So. we talk about all these different aspects of stress and the overall stress load. How sleep is like your recovery rockstar because sleep helps you improve in more dimensions of deep health than anything else. If you get really good sleep or if, think about it, if you get really poor sleep, you're grouchy, you don't think clearly you're tired.
Brian St. Pierre (40m 28s):
I mean it's impacting multiple areas of your health and wellbeing. So if you get really good sleep that can improve so many areas, you become less stressed, you can eat better, you can exercise more consistently. So we'd really tried to talk about the interconnectedness of them all, the science behind them all and the skills you can build in each of those in stress management, in emotional regulation, in sleep. Like how do you sleep more and how do you sleep more often or sleep deep more deeply and get more sleep, right? There's two different aspects of sleep. And then overall like recovery, which would include nutritional interventions and training interventions.
Brian St. Pierre (41m 7s):
So there are small amounts of Nutrition and training in there too. So yeah, I mean ultimately we really use that deep health, health Framework significantly in this course. Much more so than even the Nutrition one because sleep and stress so greatly impact each area of our, our deep health, right? The the six aspects we talk about and how we can leverage that though to improve in those areas. So yeah, I think that's basically, to me, I think it explained our, our own personal approach in ethos to health and wellbeing better than any other course we've created.
Brian St. Pierre (41m 48s):
And it just explains how to help people change like the coaching aspect better than any course we've created because we've evolved and, and learned more over time. And we had, after we did the fourth edition of our Nutrition Certification, we did, I think we created eight continuing education nine nine continuing education course. No, 12. Sorry. It was a lot. Yeah. We were, we had a whole team, we were cranking through courses. We created 12 different continuing education courses. Wow. Which really helped us get better at explaining our coaching approach and giving people the tools and the skills to do those things well. And that all culminated in our sleep stress and Recovery Certification in a way I feel like it hadn't before, even though I feel like our Nutrition Certification is awesome, I think it's the best out there.
Brian St. Pierre (42m 34s):
But this took it to a whole new, new level in terms of here's how to help people change, here's how to understand coaching practices, here's how to build skills. I feel like it just really came together in a way that was just incredibly dynamic, easy to understand and actually fun to read.
Brian Gryn (42m 53s):
Yeah, I was just scrolling through it. Right. Now I mean, I, I agree. I I can tell I'm pretty self-aware of like, if I don't get Gryn great sleep, like how, how it affects other aspects of my life. I think some people when they get bad or they're, they're, they're in this rut of getting bad sleep for a long period of time, they're sometimes not aware of how much it's really affecting them, you know, as opposed
Brian St. Pierre (43m 17s):
It's their new normal.
Brian Gryn (43m 18s):
Yeah. It's their new normal. And I think that's a lot that goes to for a lot of people, you know, I don't know, you know, you have kids, you have three kids, so I'm sure you've, you've gone through some times of not getting sleep.
Brian St. Pierre (43m 29s):
The hardest part of having kids, man.
Brian Gryn (43m 31s):
Yeah, yeah. Well what's your routine like? I'm just curious. And, you know, eating and, and sleeping and, and workout. I'm just, I li I like to ask guests and see what, what their sort of routines are like.
Brian St. Pierre (43m 45s):
Yeah, I mean I have a full-time job. I have three kids. Nope. I have a dog trying to come in my office. Right. Now, I have two dogs. My wife owns her own business. So, you know, we have a lot going on and ultimately I try to keep it very simple. My approach has stayed very consistent through the years. you know, with obviously always minor modifications, but for the most part, I mean I eat four times a day basically like a early, early morning when I, I get up at like five 30. So I have coffee and I have like a small bite to eat, usually workout around six 30.
Brian Gryn (44m 23s):
And that bite to eat is just something little like before, well
Brian St. Pierre (44m 27s):
It's always some dark chocolate with my coffee man gotta gotta have some dark chocolate with my coffee. And it's usually like that and like a banana and a protein shake or I'll do like an RX bar and a banana. If I want a little bit more carbs I'm gonna be like doing a really hard workout. Cause I just feel better when I, when I do that. And that's pretty much it. I mean it's very, very generally very minimal. Then you do your workout. Yep. And then usually I'm like getting the kids ready for school or this time of year off to summer camps or you know, chauffeuring them around there. And then I come back, I have like a, what I would consider my breakfast, but usually around like between nine and 10, which is usually just like a big thing.
Brian St. Pierre (45m 8s):
A Greek yogurt, like plain Greek yogurt, various fruit usually. Usually. Cause I love pineapple. It's usually pineapple like strawberries and blueberries all mixed in there. But like today I just chopped up an apple. That's what I had with some peanut butter toast. And then, yeah, and I usually have lunch around two o'clock, which is usually something very simple chicken with some potatoes and vegetables. Or I'll get some like pre-made meals from our, from the grocery store, which are actually great. There's one that's like it, it's rice, brown beans, corn, chicken, it's likes like a fresh salsa on it. It's really good.
Brian St. Pierre (45m 49s):
And I'll usually have, no matter what I have with one of those, I'll usually have like some almonds and another piece of fruit to kind of top off my, my lunch. And then dinner varies. The most, you know, it's, it's the meal that we have as a whole family. So, but it's almost always something revolves around a protein quality carb, some healthy fats and some veggies or occasionally just some fruit. Like last night we had breakfast burritos for dinner. I stir fried up some peppers and onions, had some wraps, some eggs, some black beans, a little cheese and we all had some fruit with it and it was fantastic. So I usually keep it very simple, very balanced, you know, don't worry too, too much about trying to time this and time that.
Brian St. Pierre (46m 31s):
And those four re reasonably or evenly spread out meals usually in bed. And my wife and I are, we go to bed early, much to the chagrin of our 12 year old daughter who wants to now stay out later and do things. And it's like, okay, my mom and I are, are in bed, are asleep by nine 30 so we gotta be done by nine. Right. So that might have to change. We'll see how that, how that works out as she gets older here. But ultimately, yeah, we're usually upstairs like tucking the boys in or hanging out with the boys and and our daughter. But we're usually in around 9 30, 8 30 like reading some books with the kids and then we read our own books usually for a little bit and then asleep by nine 30 ish.
Brian St. Pierre (47m 16s):
you know, usually aiming for eight hours. Sometimes it's earlier if I'm tired sometimes it's 10 if I'm not. But yeah, anywhere between nine and 10 and then awake by five 30. That's, that's the way it goes. And then exercise wise, you know, generally lift, generally lift three days a week this time of year it's often too just cuz there's so much more to do outdoors. I go mountain biking with some other dads in my neighborhood. I'm running a 10 K race with my wife this year, which I've done in the past, but I'm not typically a big runner. So 10 K is like pushing my limits. I can mountain bike but boy running is like, I come from a strength and conditioning background.
Brian St. Pierre (47m 58s):
That was my big emphasis for a long time. So yeah, really lifting generally three times a week I play men hockey in the winter mountain bike run, do intervals, do some zone two work, just a whole smorgasbord of things cuz I want to be able to be strong, fit, healthy, be active. No, no set particular goal. But yeah, that's kind of okay. Where that all works out.
Brian Gryn (48m 24s):
Yeah. Thanks for sharing. That sounds like a pretty balanced approach and I think as you get older it's like you, you wanna do a lot of things but also not get injured.
Brian St. Pierre (48m 35s):
100%. Yeah,
Brian Gryn (48m 37s):
It's, it's nice that you're still playing hockey those days. For me, I never played hockey. I was basketball and I'm like done with those days.
Brian St. Pierre (48m 43s):
Basketball is surprisingly hard on the body. Yeah. Like I play sometimes with some of those neighborhood dads and like you're sore after. Yeah. Like significantly sore. It's much, much harder on the body than you would think watching the sport. And it's not, it's much harder on the body than I, than I'd say hockey is.
Brian Gryn (49m 2s):
Yeah.
Brian St. Pierre (49m 3s):
At least mentally hockey, right? Where there's no hitting and
Brian Gryn (49m 5s):
Right. No
Brian St. Pierre (49m 6s):
Hitting. I'm not even wearing shoulder
Brian Gryn (49m 7s):
Pads. You're not getting checked into the boards. Yeah, no, no.
Brian St. Pierre (49m 11s):
So yeah, no, like I, I, I love it. I still love playing hockey but even when I mountain bike, you know, some of the guys are, I'm not a huge risk taker cuz like I right. I gotta get up and work tomorrow, right? I gotta bring my kids here and I've seen guys get pretty badly hurt and I'm like, yeah that doesn't interest me. No they gimme a hard time cuz I go around some of the jumps while they're hitting them and I'm like, yeah, I've seen you wipe out that jump and get 12 stitches and I
Brian Gryn (49m 35s):
Have to go to the right. It's not worth
Brian St. Pierre (49m 37s):
Er for IV antibiotics cuz it got infected like that. I'll, I'll pass Right? My, yeah, my manliness doesn't depend on Right. Taking some mountain biking jumps.
Brian Gryn (49m 47s):
Now just to sum things up, this is a question I ask a lot of my guess is what one tip would you give an individual, you know, maybe they're in their forties, fifties, or sixties and they wanna sort of, you know, get back to what they were maybe five, 10 or 15 years ago. What, what one tip would you, would you give that individual?
Brian St. Pierre (50m 7s):
I'd say I would try to think of things on a dial rather than an on off switch. Right. Especially if it's been down for a long time. Right. More often than not, especially as we get older, if you try to flip that on or you crank that dial to 11, that's how people get hurt because the body's not prepared for that. Right. Your tissues, your ligaments and your tendons are not prepared for that sudden massive increase in inactivity. So not to necessarily like super ease your way into it, but instead of having that dial at a zero and cranking it to 10, crank it to a four. Right?
Brian St. Pierre (50m 47s):
Just start walking or start, you know, doing some body weight work, elevated pushups, body weight, squats, right? That kind of thing. Just to kind of get things rolling, right? Because really what we're looking for are easy wins when you can stack win upon, win upon win. That's how you make consistent steady progress. It's when you say, okay, I'm gonna start doing this five times a week and eating better and going to sleep at nine and you start trying to change so many things all at once, invariably something's going to break because you haven't created the routines and the systems to make that just a normal part of your everyday life. So if something's gonna break, you're gonna feel shitty about it and then that's when usually the screw it, right, I'll do this tomorrow or Right, right.
Brian St. Pierre (51m 34s):
Suddenly that dial comes crashing back down because it got really hard. That's what's going to happen because life always kicks you in the teeth. It always throws you a curve ball, something's gonna happen. So you prepare for that by slowly but systematically increasing things cuz then you can modify that much more easily when that curve ball comes. Right? If you're planning to exercise three times a week and something happens, you only got in two sessions that week, that doesn't feel like a failure. But if you're going for six and you only got two, that often feels like a failure even though two is a hell of a lot better than the zero you were doing before. Right. And so then that helps you more consistently do it and it's consistency that matters in the long term.
Brian St. Pierre (52m 16s):
And so, okay we got it to a four now I'm feeling really good. I'm able to do this consistently, I still want to do more. Okay, let's crank it up to a six or a seven. Right? Eat a little bit better, go to sleep a little bit earlier, right? Add an additional exercise day or two. And it doesn't have to be something huge. Too often we think, oh it's gotta be like 60 minutes at the gym or I gotta go for a five mile run. Like no, you can just do like 30 minutes. Get in what you can when you can. It doesn't have to be perfect, right? There are plenty of days I plan on doing my full hour long lifting routine, but I have kids, you know, my wife has a business and stuff happens. It just always does, right?
Brian St. Pierre (52m 56s):
So it's like, okay, I can't get that in today. What can I get in? I can get in a 20 minute, 20 minute circuit with a bunch of different weight exercises. Great. It's better. It helps me tread water until the next time I can do my, my larger routine, right? So I find ways to tread water when things happen or things go sideways cuz they will be prepared for that. And then slowly up that dial until you reach a point where you're reaching your goals and it's a way you can maintain it, right? So it doesn't have to be a 10, it doesn't have to be a four wherever on that dial, you can set it that's this fits my pref preferences, my lifestyle, my current life circumstances, and it's helping me reach whatever my goals are and then try to keep that, you know, reasonably close there.
Brian St. Pierre (53m 42s):
If something really hard happens, see if you can turn that dial down, but keep it off of zero, right? So using that dial concept instead of an on off switch,
Brian Gryn (53m 52s):
Love
Brian St. Pierre (53m 52s):
That is usually a massive game changer for people to help break that all or nothing mindset.
Brian Gryn (53m 58s):
Yeah, that's great. I love that And. now you're the first guest to sort of use that analogy with the dial. And I think that that is so true cuz yeah, there's some days where stuff comes up and it's like, I think the other day I was gonna do a whole lifting thing. I had like, I think I had maybe 20 minutes and I like literally did just like a shoulder routine and just, but it, you know, it was better than nothing. So
Brian St. Pierre (54m 23s):
Absolutely. That's like I'm a big fan. I'll do like what I call living, they're dumbbell complexes, right? So it's just, I grab one weight, so it's like 35, I mean 35 or 40 pounds, but whatever weight feels appropriate, most people start with like 15 to 25. And then I'll do like some curls to like, I'll hold the weights on my shoulders, do some squats, overhead presses, right? Do some like reverse lunges, bent over rows, everything. I'll either hop down and do pushups on 'em or I'll lay on a bench and, and and press them up so you're kind of hitting the whole body. And I'll do, it usually takes about a full minute cause I'll do like eight reps of everything and then I rest a minute and then I repeat it like six times.
Brian Gryn (55m 2s):
I like that. That's
Brian St. Pierre (55m 3s):
Cool. And you can do that whole thing in 15 minutes, right? So sometimes all I have time for, I'm getting in conditioning, I'm actually moving some weights, I'm going through a whole body routine, not too bad. So that's my go-to when, when shit happens and it does, you do
Brian Gryn (55m 19s):
The total body.
Brian St. Pierre (55m 20s):
I just try to get in some, some complexes and maybe I'll walk the dogs later in the day, but if I can't get in my full workout, at least I got in something.
Brian Gryn (55m 28s):
Yeah, I think I did, I did had 35 pounds and I wanted to do, I did 10 reps shoulder presses, then did 30 10 reps, 25, 10 reps and just went all the way down and I was like, okay. And then did the same thing for like maybe curls and I was like, okay then I'm done.
Brian St. Pierre (55m 45s):
Right. But yeah, it's still something right? You still, you get the mental benefit of knowing you got a workout in, you get the physiological benefit of Right glucose is not gonna be disposed better. You're gonna create some new muscle tissue cuz of protein turnover. Like there are actually a whole bunch of positive things that came from just that small little workout as much as your full one. Of course not. But a shitload more than sitting there and doing nothing. Absolutely.
Brian Gryn (56m 12s):
All. right. Brian, lots of great stuff packed in this hour. I appreciate you coming on. Where's the best place for people to find you?
Brian St. Pierre (56m 19s):
I mean, I would say Precision Nutrition dot com or check out any of our stuff on our, our social media, our Instagram, Facebook, you know, things of that nature. Me, me personally, I don't use social media. I know you're, I noticed
Brian Gryn (56m 32s):
That
Brian St. Pierre (56m 32s):
Today. I know,
Brian Gryn (56m 33s):
I noticed that's like trying to, you know, do a little research. I was like, well his and your website. It's, I don't think, I think
Brian St. Pierre (56m 40s):
Website hasn't been updated
Brian Gryn (56m 41s):
In 1948.
Brian St. Pierre (56m 43s):
Yeah, probably. It still exists. But yeah, that's, I
Brian Gryn (56m 47s):
Mean, it's a nice young picture,
Brian St. Pierre (56m 49s):
Picture look, picture of you. you know, I, I, I do my work for PN and then I go home.
Brian Gryn (56m 54s):
I don't blame you. I'm with my kids. Honestly, I don't blame
Brian St. Pierre (56m 56s):
You. you know, so
Brian Gryn (56m 58s):
I could do without social media, honestly. I mean, I like it to some degree, but it, you can learn a lot now, you know, you can learn great exercises on Instagram, And, you know, don't forget people's birthdays cause of Facebook and things like that. But like beyond that, I don't know,
Brian St. Pierre (57m 13s):
You can get, you can get lost in there. Yeah. Yeah. And that's kind of my thought on it. It ha it's a tool and it has some uses, but it's also a double-edged sword. So just wanna find out more about my work and what PN does. I mean I, my work's all over pn so if you go to Precision Nutrition dot com, you check us out on Facebook or Instagram or I think we're even on TikTok. Yeah. You'll see any, all the stuff
Brian Gryn (57m 38s):
I've created. Yeah. And you guys have a great blog that I referenced some things from, so I will put that in the show notes. So thanks Brian for coming on.
Brian St. Pierre (57m 47s):
Yeah, thanks for having me. This was great.
Brian Gryn (57m 50s):
Thanks for listening to the GETLEAN e Clean podcast. I understand there are millions of other Podcasts out there and you've chosen to listen to mine and I appreciate that. Check out the show notes at Brian Gryn dot com for everything that was mentioned In, this episode. Feel free to subscribe to the podcast and share it with a friend or family member that's looking to get their body back to what it once was. Thanks again and have a great day.
