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0 (1s): Coming up on the get lean eat clean podcast. 1 (4s): The 14 days I could get 98% of people fat adapted without any of the side effects. And it takes two steps. The first step is to have a gradual decrease in your total carbohydrates. And you would do that by monitoring how many carbs you're having. If you're eating a standard American diet, you're having 300 to 400 grams of carbs per day. So on day one, you go from 300 grams of carbs to 250 grams some day to you go to 200 grams. So gradually decreased that's step number one until eventually you go and your upper limit for total carbohydrates is 50 grams of total carbs from green leafy vegetables. At the same time, this is step number two. 1 (46s): You want to increase your healthy fat. So your body now sees all this dietary clean fat, and it starts to see, oh, okay. Glucose is dropping don't panic. We have all these fatty acids acids to burn for fuel. And then we could actually burn that, send that to the liver and create ketones. 0 (1m 4s): Hello and welcome to the get lean eat clean podcast. I'm Brian grin. And I'm here to give you actionable tips to get your body back to what it once was in five, 10, even 15 years ago each week. I'll give you an in-depth interview with a health expert from around the world to cut through the fluff and get you long-term sustainable results. This week I interviewed certified health coach and bestselling author. Ben Azadi. Ben is the author of four bestselling books. Keto flex the perfect health booklet, the intermittent fasting cheat sheet, and the power of sleep. Ben is the founder of keto camp, a global brand bringing awareness to ancient healing strategies, such as the keto diet and fasting. 0 (1m 45s): In this interview, we discussed how to get keto adapted his fat adaption formula keto camp academy, and some of the biggest intermittent fasting mistakes that people make along with his one tip to get your body back to what it once was. I really enjoyed my interview with Ben. He's got a ton of great tips and he talks about something called a vitamin G. See if you can think of what that is. So enjoy the interview and thanks so much for listening. All right. Welcome to the get lean eat clean podcast. My name is Brian grin, and I have Ben Azadi on. Welcome to the show. Ben, 1 (2m 22s): Brian, I am excited to be here with you to get lean and eat clean with. 0 (2m 26s): Yeah, yeah. And I love your backdrop little Kito camp. We're going to talk all things keto for the most part, and maybe a little bit of fasting, a lot of topics that we talk about on my podcast. So I think we have a lot in common and I'm excited to have you on. 1 (2m 43s): I'm excited to be here and you're coming on my show soon. So it's going to be a fun collaboration with 0 (2m 48s): Very cool. And before we get into the details of some things, why don't we talk about your background, how you got into Quito and coaching and you got a sweet website. 1 (2m 59s): Yeah. Tell us how, how you got involved with that. Absolutely. I, I was somebody who followed a standard American diet. Like many of us do. It's very high processed, toxic diet, and that's what I ate growing up. They didn't know any better. So I followed a standard American diet. I was left to my own devices grown up. So I hung out with the wrong crowd. Did drugs sold drugs? Skipped school got kicked out of school. I was a really bad kid. This showed up with my physical appearance. I was physically obese, but also mentally obese, mentally bankrupt, toxic thoughts, suicidal thoughts, depressive depression. And I found myself back in 2008, 24 years old being a very much obese individual who wanted to give up on life. 1 (3m 47s): At that point, I was rock bottom. I was looking for ways to end my life and I felt like I was 94 years old, even though I was only 24 years old. And I knew I needed to make a change, but I wanted to give up. I didn't want to even fight for life. I wanted to give up. And every time I looked at suicide, I kept thinking about my mother and it kept stopping me. Thank God. So I started to read books, Brian, I picked up one book, which led to five books with led to 15 books. And I had fell in love with these amazing authors, Dr. Wayne Dyer, Lisa Nichols, Bob Proctor, Earl Nightingale, Jim Rowan. I mean, I just fell in love and I became obsessed with learning from these giants. And I started to stand on the shoulder of these giants and the books did a lot for me, but the most important thing the books did for me back then until this day, the books helped me take responsibility. 1 (4m 40s): I, for the first time ever, I took responsibility and that word responsibility, that's your ability to respond to life. My ability to respond to life up until that point was really poor. I was blaming my genetics. I was blaming my enabling family members. I was blaming my slow metabolism. I was blaming the president that was blaming whatever I could get my hands on, but the books helped me take ownership. And in that instance that I said, I am responsible. I became the Victor of my destiny and I stopped being the victim of my history. And I started to exercise and start to eat better. And I went through this incredible transformation is nine months transformation. I went from 250 pounds down to 170 pounds. 1 (5m 24s): I went from 34% body fat down to 6% body fat, finally carved out a physical six-pack. But the most important thing that I achieved was a mental six-pack. I started to think better thoughts. And that's what got me started in the health space. Brian, that was 13 years ago. I became a personal trainer, opened up a CrossFit gym, sold the CrossFit gym, and then I went a hundred percent online and became a certified health coach and then started keto camp. So in a nutshell, that's the journey in the last 13, 14 years? Quite the journey. 0 (5m 59s): What D what would you say? Gosh, 2008. So it's been 12 years. And how long did you have the CrossFit gym for? 1 (6m 7s): I opened up the CrossFit gym in 2013 and then sold it. I sold my shares in 2018, so a four and a half years or so I had, 0 (6m 15s): Oh, wow. And along the whole time, as far as getting into obviously Quito and things like that, you went from the standard American diet to what, what helped you sort of transition into keto and, and has, and has your stance changed at all from how you, you know, sort of lost that a bunch of weight to now where you're at? 1 (6m 36s): Yes. So I didn't discover Quito actually until 2013. So I didn't use keto to lose the weight, but it was a very important lesson because although I lost the weight, I went from 250 pounds to 170 pounds. I was fit. I was still one of those fit, sick people that had digestive issues. I had acne, I had brain fog, so I wasn't necessarily healthy. I did excessive exercise and I started to eat better and any kind of change would have gotten me results. And that got me results, but I was still trying to explore what true health felt like and what true health look like. And it wasn't until 2013 that I discovered keto. I was actually coming off of a vegan diet plant-based for a year and a half strict vegan, which did not work well for me. 1 (7m 21s): And then I discovered ketosis and fasting and fell in love with it. And yeah, I've learned a lot of things along the way, even with keto and fasting, you know, I've learned not to be dogmatic. I learned that we are not really designed to be in ketosis forever. We should flex in and out. And the ultimate goal is a metabolic flexibility and freedom. 0 (7m 38s): Yeah. I love that. I'm, I'm, I'm finding that out with my journey. I was sorta like yourself, not in the sense that I was necessarily like big time overweight and things like that, but I was like a pescatarian or I was almost like a vegetarian for a while and then got into fish. But you find that that's a common theme. A lot of people maybe start plant-based and think that's like the one-off thing. And then they've realized that perhaps they're missing out a little bit. What, what made you make the switch from like a vegetarian, into, you know, into keto? And probably, I would assume majority are diets probably more on the, on the meat-based side. 1 (8m 17s): Yes, it is. Yeah. It was even worse than vegetarian. I was a strict vegan. Right. And it was, it was even like more restrictive here. What made me switch out of it? You know, in the beginning as being a vegan, the first couple of months were great. I felt better. I performed better, but then you stick with the too long, then all of a sudden you hit that vegan wall. And that's what happened with me. But I was very dogmatic about being a Vee. And I was telling all my friends and family, I was telling all my social media friends, like, you're going to save the world. You're going to save your health. This is the only way to do it. So I put myself in a box lesson learned, don't put yourself in a box, be open to this, not actually being a life long thing that you do, maybe short term. 1 (8m 58s): And then I just stuck with it. But I know, I knew that I didn't feel great. And I felt like my hormones were off. I was taking me days to recover from simple workouts, right. So I did lab work, lab work, verified how I was feeling. And I decided, okay, I need to make a change. And then I started to study other individuals like Paul Chek, Dave Asprey at that time, Dr. Jason Fung and Dr. Pompa, who's now my mentor. And then I discovered ketosis and I discovered these ancient healing strategies, ketosis, intermittent fasting, and how they've been around forever. We're actually designed to use both energy systems, the ketogenic energy system and the sugar burning energy system. The glucose energy system is just that so many people are stuck as sugar burners. 1 (9m 41s): And I was at, at that time a sugar burner. So I wanted to tap into a fat burning state KATUSAs and I, and I made that transition studying these ancient healing strategies. And it was a game changer for my health. I started to really feel what true cellular health felt like. And I fell in love with it. 0 (9m 58s): Yeah. And what would you say to someone to make that transition? What are maybe some good first steps for that individual? Who's been maybe a sugar burner for a long time and they want to start getting into ketosis. What, what, what are some good first steps? 1 (10m 13s): Yeah. First of all, I think it's a great question. And then the person wants to get clear on why they want to burn fat instead of sugar. And the reason why, and you teach this Brian. But the reason why is when you're stuck burning sugar, it's highly inflammatory. Your cells are creating a lot of byproducts, cellular byproducts, a lot of cellular smoke toxins, if you will. And it just inflames the cell membrane and it creates a lot of inflammation. It ages you faster. If you're stuck burning sugar, it ages you faster. I was burned a cell, excuse me. I always compare a cell. That's burning sugar to a truck with all this smoke coming out of the exhaust pipe, the truck it's not healthy for the surrounding environment. 1 (10m 55s): When your cells are stuck burning glucose. Yeah. It's not healthy for yourself 0 (11m 1s): Down the highway, but ain't moving good. 1 (11m 3s): Exactly. It's, it's pushing down the highway, but it's making all this dirty smoke all over the dealer cars, not a good idea. When you could teach the body and the cells to burn fat and use ketones, it's like a Tesla cleaner, cleaner source of energy versus the truck. That's why you want to do it. How do you do it? Well, in, in chapter one of my pillar, one of my book, Yuto flux, I talk about a two step approach to getting fat adapted. Instead of being sugar adapted, I'll share it here. And in 14 days I could get 98% of people fat adapted without any of the side effects. And it takes two steps. The first step is to have a gradual decrease in your total carbohydrates. And you would do that by monitoring how many carbs you're having. 1 (11m 45s): If you're eating a standard American diet, you're having 300 to 400 grams of carbs per day. So on day one, you go from 300 grams of carbs to 250 grams some day two, you go to 200 grams. So gradually decreased that's step. Number one until eventually you go in your upper limit for total carbohydrates is 50 grams of total carbs from green leafy vegetables. At the same time, this is step number two. You want to increase your healthy fat. So your body now sees all this dietary clean fat, and it starts to see, oh, okay, glucose is dropping don't panic. We have all these fatty acids to burn for fuel. And then we could actually burn that, send that to the liver and create ketones. 1 (12m 28s): So there's something called the 2, 2, 2, 2 rule, which I wrote about in my book. This is the second step every single day. For those first seven days, you want to consume two tablespoons of avocado oil or olive oil, two tablespoons of grass fed butter or grass fed gate two tablespoons of coconut oil or MCT oil, and then two teaspoons of sea salt. If you hit that with the gradual decrease in carbs in seven to 14 days, you're going to be fat adapted without any of the side effects. 0 (13m 2s): Interesting. You know, I've had a lot of people on my podcast and I've not heard the two to two real. How did you come up with that? 1 (13m 11s): So it's actually, it was created for my mentor, Dr. Pompa and it made, it made so much sense because here's the challenges. Cause I've taken thousands of people through, you know, a protocol to get them sugar burner to fat burner. One of the challenges is, is this when glucose drops in the brain, the brain panics, and it sends the body intense signals for sugar and carbohydrates, and it makes it unbearable as you're making that switch. So as you're gradually decreasing the carbs instead of a drastic decrease, you're now throwing in all of this healthy, stable, fat, and your body starts to see all the fatty acids floating around. So now glucose is dropping, but the brain doesn't panic because now the body is burning all the fat. 1 (13m 54s): And then now it's producing ketone. So they're stable, clean fats. So that along with the sea salt, because you do have a lowering insulin, which then the kidneys release excess electrolytes with the, with that happening could create what's called the keto flu, which has really carbohydrate withdrawal symptoms. So as you increase the electrolytes and the fat, you're able to bypass any of those symptoms that most people might get as they make that transition. 0 (14m 18s): Yeah. That's that's, I love that. And it's interesting that you're having them take a, what'd you say, two tablespoons of each two 1 (14m 24s): Tablespoons of the fat and then two teaspoons of the sea 0 (14m 27s): Salt. Okay. Got it. And this is just something they're going to drink. Just 1 (14m 31s): They could have it. It's a good question. Cause I get that a lot. They would have it throughout the entire day, Brian. So it's in their coffee, their tea, the cooking oil, their salad dressings, their dips it's throughout the whole day. Yeah. 0 (14m 43s): Okay. Yeah. I love that. And so with that, this is actually something that's come about in my own life. A little bit dangerous of long-term ketosis, sort of the other end of the spectrum, right? We've gone from getting you into it. Now I will say this. The reason I'm asking about maybe the dangers of long-term ketosis is the fact that, you know, if someone from myself who's, who's been low carb for a while, just almost just cause I feel better that way. I noticed my last probably four blood works. I have a higher fasting blood glucose than normal. And you think I'd be like pre-diabetic, but I know, I know that I'm not. 0 (15m 28s): And I was, I've been the more and more I've been researching. And honestly, this has just been going on recently. I'm like, wow, this is a thing maybe perhaps on the other end of the spectrum, what are your thoughts on coming in and out of ketosis and how that could be helpful for someone that's maybe been already fat adapted and being key, been in ketosis for awhile? 1 (15m 49s): Yeah. It's a very important topic of discussion because I love keto. I think it's an amazing tool, but it's not the only tool in the shed. It's one of many, many tools. When we look back at our ancestors, every single one of our ancestors did keto. That's a fact there's nothing new about ketosis. There's nothing new about keto. It's just nuanced. Every single one of her ancestors did Akido at the same token. Same fact. They also flexed out whenever they had the opportunity. So I love getting the body fat adapted and I just shared how to do that. Right? Keeping the person in ketosis, whether it's a male or female, both of them for eight to 12 weeks straight to get them keto adapted, which is different than fat adaption. 1 (16m 33s): Keto adaption takes longer. That's when now the mitochondria and the cells prefer ketones as their primary fuel source. That takes eight to 12 weeks. Once they're there, then we start flexing a, you might call it carb cycling, you might call it something else. I call it keto flexing, meaning going in and out of ketosis, which I believe is very important for men and females and how you would do that would be several different ways that I talk about in the book. But maybe having one day out of the week where you do know fast thing and you have a higher, healthy carbon, and you're intentionally getting yourself out of ketosis, you're getting that insulin spike to go up, but insulin could be important for certain hormonal conversions. 1 (17m 14s): Thyroid T4 needs to convert to T3. Insulin helps make that conversion. It also could reset your, your leptin levels and it also could reset your sex hormone binding globulin. And it also can help with glucose and fat burning as well to your point because when you're long-term ketosis, the body will start to preserve its fuel source, which is fat. It'll slow down fat burning, and I'll forget how to, how to use the other pathway, which is the glucose burning pathway. So I think it's important to flex in and out and have one day out of the week. Men could be a little bit more aggressive with keto and fasting. Women need to do more, especially women who have their menstrual cycle, which I talk about in chapter 12 of my book, you know, flux. 0 (17m 56s): Yeah, no, I it's. It that makes a ton of sense. Maybe picking a day. I know, you know, like Dr. Saladino talks about how he got into honey. Yeah. Do you have thoughts on, on certain carbohydrates? I know you mentioned leafy vegetables. What if someone's sensitive to that? Would you say maybe the lower toxic end of the things of, of maybe even fruit or honey as, as a way to get out of ketosis? 1 (18m 24s): Yeah. So in, in pillar, three of my four pillar approach actually teach carnivores. I think carnivores is a great short term and I love Sandino's work. I'm actually speaking with him this Thursday. I love it as a tool, but the goal is not to be carnivore forever. The goal is not to be keto forever. The goal is not to do any diet long-term, but if you do carnivore for 30 to 60 days, great way to reset the gut and then you can start re-introducing vegetables. Now, if you find that you're still not doing well with vegetables, then to your point, and to Paul's point have fruit, which are much, much safer or less plant toxins than vegetables. And you could have like honey and berries, cantaloupe, I mean different things to flex out, but you have, everybody will have their different level of what they can have versus versus what they can have. 1 (19m 8s): But the goal is not to avoid vegetables for the rest of our life. The goal is to get your gut healthy enough. So you could process that and have a hormetic benefit because there's an argument to be made that even though they're plant toxins, they could stress your gut, which will force your gut to adapt, which will make a stronger gut, create more diversity. But some people just have their guts. So rack, they have to avoid it altogether. I have things like fruit. So it's going to be dependent on the person to answer a question. 0 (19m 35s): Yeah. And I'm curious, just what's your typical routine or what part, like, what's your, I guess what a weekly eating routine is like for Ben? Yeah. 1 (19m 45s): The question I do carnivore three to four times a year, while I'll do 30 to 60 days straight, I'll throw that in all the time. I always feel really good with carnivore, like a level two level three carnivore. Now in general, I'll do 80%. I'm in this 20% amount. And that could vary depending, like, let's say this Friday, right? It's a new year's Eve. I'm going to my fiance's parents. We're going to spend time there. So I know she's going to cook a whole bunch of food and it's not going to be keto friendly. So that's going to be my keto flex night where I'm going to flex out. And then the next day, Saturday, I'm going to be fast and get right back into KATUSAs, which is, you know, true metabolic freedom. So to answer your question, I eat mostly meats. 1 (20m 27s): I do really. You said it earlier, that's what you would have guessed was I eat mostly meat. I do really well with red meat and different types of seafood and eggs and not so much with dairy, but like goat and sheep. I do well with versus cow dairy. I do okay. With, with bitters, like a rugala and dandelion greens, not so much with like spinach and kale. That's higher oxalates and it'll have some fruit as well, but meat-based is what I primarily do. I feel really good when I'm eating mostly meat. Okay. 0 (20m 54s): Okay. And you're doing like two meals a day, one meal a day, five meals a day. 1 (20m 60s): Definitely not five. So I have on most days I have an eating window of like 1:00 PM to 6:00 PM and I'll have two substantial meals in the, in that window. 0 (21m 9s): All right. We're we're along the same lines then. And then, and then what about workouts? How does your workout schedule? 1 (21m 17s): I work out in the fastest state before I break my fast. So usually around 11:00 AM or noon I'll work out like earlier today I worked out at a really good workout fasted, and then I broke the fast afterwards. So I would say 98% of the time when I work out, I do it in the fastest state. I feel much better. 0 (21m 34s): We got a lot in common here. Nice. Well, I noticed on your website, you have this keto camp academy. Maybe give a little insight into that and what individuals can get from that. 1 (21m 49s): So my KIDO camp academy, thank you for asking about that, Brian. It is my signature course. It is our premier course, which teaches the four pillars in detail. It's all online, a hundred percent online. So we have hundreds of hundreds of members from all across the world and it gives you my four pillar approach to ketone fast. And there's over 200 videos in there. We also offer not just the structure, but we also offer a health coaching group coaching. So two 90 minute calls on zoom group calls every month, along with monthly masterclasses and special live streams to my podcast. So it's an amazing program right now. It's $97 a month and it's, you know, canceling any time sort of thing. And we are just excited to get as many people as possible in that program to educate them. 1 (22m 33s): The overall goal with the academy is not to lose weight, which a lot of people want to, but you don't lose weight to get healthy. The overall goal is to get you healthy, to lose weight. And by doing, getting you healthy, how do we do that? We help you identify interference, inflammation, and we help you lower that interference, inflammation around yourselves. And as you do that with keto, with fasting, with sleep, with carnivores, et cetera, then the weight comes off. Then the symptoms go away. Then you get off your medication with your doctor. And we've seen amazing transformations, amazing testimonials with somebody who has been dealing with PCOS for years, haven't had their periods in years and 30 days into it. They get their period back a type two diabetic, 60 days off their meds, high blood pressure off their meds within 30 days. 1 (23m 17s): I mean, the body's amazing. It could heal as long as you do your part and remove the interference. So the keto camp academy is our signature course, which teaches all of that. And also we give health coaching in a group setting. 0 (23m 28s): Wow. That sounds like a great program. I'm curious. I just a specific thing that just came to my mind. What, what, what about, you know, I'm sure you get people who are, there's a lot of carb addicts out there, right? And I know you talked about sort of a way to wean off when you wean them down. Let's say they're used to eating bagels and bread. And when you wean them down from, let's just say 300 grams of carbs a day, getting them into the 50, do getting into those 50. Are we, are we instead of the big or what are we doing? Are we, are we going green leafy vegetables? Or are we just saying we're having less of that source? Or I'm just curious your thoughts around that 1 (24m 5s): Question. You asked some really good questions, Brian, that ones is important because a lot of people do have sugar addiction, carb addiction. Now I'm not a sugar addiction expert. However, I am somebody who used to be addicted to sugar and carbs myself. So I've been through it and I have been, I've been able to overcome it and I have interviewed amazing real experts on sugar addiction. You're a bitch. You're so how do I put this in a way that makes sense? Your addiction to sugar and carbs is proportional to your inability, to burn fat as an energy source. So as you burned fat with that 2, 2, 2, 2 rule, keep your electrolytes up. It'll help with the addiction. Now, some people need some additional support. 1 (24m 46s): What does that mean? Yeah. Your carbs should come from green, leafy vegetables, non-starchy vegetables. Even with that, some people could struggle. It could take 28 days or longer to overcome this with the struggle. So focusing on protein would be huge because as you know, protein activates peptide. Why, why leptin? The satiety, hormones and chemicals. So higher protein could benefit somebody like that. And then supplementation like Gabba L-glutamine could I always say glutamine will help you wean. It calms the part of the brain that lights up when you experience a sugar addiction. So they might need some consideration. So I would refer that person to some of the interviews I've done. We've done a masterclasses with sugar addiction experts, and they might need some professional help or they might not. 1 (25m 31s): But you know, protein is going to be important for that individual. 0 (25m 35s): Yeah. Yeah. Definitely prioritizing protein. First. I agree with that. What about let's shift into fasting a little bit, cause we both like to talk about that. I noticed on your website, you talk about, I didn't watch the video cause I wanted to ask you the questions. I'm just curious what your thoughts were. Five intermittent fasting rules, not to break. And I noticed you have that up there. What, what, what are your five fasting rules that you on that are not to be broken? Okay. 1 (26m 1s): Let's see if I remember them. Number one, I would say the, the rule not to break is that if you're new to fasting, go low and slow, build up your fasting muscle. The way you should view fasting is as a muscle, you wouldn't be a couch potato for 20 years and say, I'm going to go do a CrossFit workout tomorrow. It's going to look ugly. You got to train for that. Why do you got to train for that workout? Same thing with fasting. If you're a sugar burner eating every two to three hours throughout the entire day and say, I'm going to fast 24 hours tomorrow. Not a good idea to go low and slow. Start with maybe a 12 hour fast, which includes your sleeping window and then build up from there. That's the first mistake. Second mistake is not understanding that you could use crutches during your window. 1 (26m 45s): So let's say you're new to it. And you want to go for 18 hour fast tomorrow and you want to deal with water only, which is probably the best thing to do for most results, water and sea salt. But you're at the 15 hour mark and you're struggling. You're like, I don't feel that. Great. Well then have some crutches. It's okay to have some coffee with some fat, to have some tea. Maybe have a little bit of some broth. No, it's not a traditional fast, but it's going to, if it's going to help you keep that window going and keep insulin low. I'm all for that. So that's the second mistake. Not understanding you could use crutches right there. The mistake is if I'm remembering this correctly, breaking your fast, you got to break it the right way. And there's a wrong way to break a fast and a right way to break a fast. 1 (27m 25s): The wrong way is what the combination of high carbs and high fat, not a good idea because you're going, it's going to slow down your weight loss efforts because your hormones are going to be sensitive by the end of a fast insulin is one of those hormones. So when you get that glucose spike, like from cheese and crackers or avocado toast, that's the fat and carbs. When you get that glucose spike from the carbs, insulin will then shuttle that glucose through yourself, which is great. But then if you have fat with the meal, fat will go along with it. It'll slow down your weight loss efforts. So we don't want to do that. We want to break the fast with primarily protein and some fat. And then if you're going to have carbs, wait about an hour after that would be the best way to do it. 1 (28m 5s): The fourth mistake is not testing your glucose and ketones because if you're fasting during a stressful state, let's say you got poor asleep or you're just stressed out at work. You're stressed out with what's happening in the world or whatever reason. Fasting is also a stressor to the body. And if you have too much stress going on, it's not going to benefit you. It's going to hurt you. You want to make sure your sleep is good. Your stress is good. So by looking at your glucose and ketones, it'll give you a good idea. If you should keep that fasting window going, or if you should break the fast. So what you want to see during your fast is glucose, gradually declining and ketones increasing. You want to see that trend. If you see the opposite of glucose going up and ketones to dropping, it's too much stress for you. 1 (28m 50s): Cortisol is too high. You're in a stressful state break, the fast. And then the last one is understand that feasting is just as important as fasting. Autophagy is great. Cellular repair is great, but too much of that, not a good thing. You want to bounce out autophagy with M Tor, which is anabolic and growth. So too many people. And I was guilty of this myself fell in love with fasting. You probably did it too. Brian did too much fasting, but we've got to make sure we feast and we fast because that's how our cells are designed and hardwired for feasting and fasting too many people forget the feasting part. 0 (29m 26s): Yeah, I agree. And what about extended fasts? Is this something that you work with people on? I mean, obviously if you have experience, like you said, you want to go slow and work your way into it, but you know, someone who's been like ourselves been doing fasting for years, I guess personally, what do you do as far as extended fast and then perhaps potentially with clients. 1 (29m 46s): I love extended fasting. I think it's a very powerful tool, but they got to know how to do it and work with somebody, for sure. So I've done five day water fast. I've done, you know, three days partial fast, five days, partial fast. It's great. The goal for me is to get this maximum autophagy, right? Looking at my glucose and ketones and making sure I'm getting this deep healing healing state, which could typically take three to five days depending on how metabolically flexible you are. And then you, you really want to break that fast, the right way, even more strategic. So on my YouTube channel on KIDO camp, YouTube channel, we have a whole two day protocol on how to break a block fast. You want to monitor your numbers throughout it, but I think it's great. It's a great way to prevent disease. I mean, if you look at Dr. 1 (30m 26s): Thomas Sifrei, who wrote the book cancer as a metabolic disease, he said in his book a seven day water fast once per year reduces your risk of cancer by 95%. That's a very powerful statement. And that's because of this maximum autophagy that you get during the seven day water fast. Now I could get that in three to five days. And most people who are metabolically flexible, like you, Brian could get that much sooner than a seven day fast, but it's a great way to prevent disease per Dr. Seafreeze research. 0 (30m 56s): Yeah, no, that's, that's great. Yeah. I have done some extended ones. I definitely don't do them. You know, I would say maybe once a quarter, something that's a three to five day, or is that something that you look at maybe once a quarter or, you know, maybe a couple of times a year, 1 (31m 10s): Once a year. I typically do. Yeah. I'm kind of due for one now. I haven't done one in over a year, but you have once a year 0 (31m 17s): And, and here's the leading into this question. What would you say the best time to do fasting 1 (31m 22s): The best time to do fast that like a long or fast or maybe 0 (31m 26s): Yeah, probably a longer fast. 1 (31m 28s): So I'll for, for women the best time to do a longer, fast or fasting in general, is there their bleed week, the week of their period. Okay. They're much more resilient. That's when they should do the longer, fast, more aggressive fasting. The worst time for women who have a monthly cycle is the week before their period do not do a long, fast the week before your period. It will not look pleasant for men. We can be a little bit more aggressive. So as long as we're getting good sleep and as long as our stress is somewhat under control for men, any time, as long as we're mastering the stress for post-menopausal women, very similar to men's hormones. So same thing, as long as your stress is under control, you're not too active. You don't have a lot of strenuous exercise that week, then that could be a good idea for a fast, 0 (32m 9s): Yeah. I try to find the weeks where I'm busier. 1 (32m 13s): Yeah. 0 (32m 15s): Takes her mind off of it. You know, it's like, we all know we have those days where we're really busy and we got a bunch of whatever interviews or things like this that are, and you look up and like time just flew and you're like, oh, I didn't even have anything to eat. 1 (32m 26s): That's the best time to do it. I agree when I'm, when I'm busy, I don't even think about eating. You're just eating your body fat, which is the goal. 0 (32m 33s): Yeah. What I'm curious, have you gotten your body fat measured lately? No, 1 (32m 38s): I haven't. I was just thinking about doing it. So I have no idea where it goes. What about you? 0 (32m 44s): You know, I've done a DEXA scan because a lot of times I'll have my clients do one. I haven't gotten one in a little while. I'm a little, I'm about nine, nine and a half in that range. So that's 1 (32m 54s): Pretty damn good, 0 (32m 55s): Man. That's good. Yeah. I'm happy with that. I'm happy with that. 1 (33m 0s): Probably in the teens. If I had to guess, I don't know, somewhere in the teens, I don't know where. 0 (33m 4s): Okay. Gotcha. And what would you say that someone that's you said go, go slow when it comes to getting into fasting. If you have someone that hasn't done fast in your keto, what do you think you start with first or do you start them together? 1 (33m 24s): Ideally you would start with keto first. You would get fat adapted, which is my first pillar in the book. Second pillar is fast. So after fat adaption, then we fast. That's the best way to do it. Once the body's familiar with breaking down fat and producing ketones, it's going to make that fast, so much more easier. You're going to feel great because now even when you fast glucose drops in the brain, then the ketones are here and the brain doesn't panic and you feel really good. So I would say getting fat adapted and doing keto first for seven to 14 days, and then fasting would be the best way to do it. 0 (33m 58s): Okay. Yeah. And what about if a client plateaus? You know, there's a lot of people who, who, who are on certain, whatever diet they're on and they sort of hit a, hit, a, hit a wall. Is there something that you recommend for that? 1 (34m 13s): Yeah, I would say there's three things guaranteed in life, death taxes and a weight loss plateau 0 (34m 21s): Bound down. That's good. 1 (34m 25s): So whenever you hit a plateau, it's important to revisit the fundamentals. How's your sleep. If your sleep's not optimal, start right there. How's your stress. If your stress is out of control, work on that. How's your movement. Are you getting your steps 10,000 steps per day, not work on that, or, and then you could work on, you know, strength, training, exercise, all that's great, but steps are number one, right? If you're doing all of that and you're still plateauing, then it's important to shake things up, mix things up. When you think about the best personal trainers in the world, what do they all have in common? They always change up the routine to keep the body guessing and adapting, which helps the client to get results. Same thing with our eating and fasting schedule. 1 (35m 6s): So if you're doing the same 16, eight fasting schedule every single day, it's time to mix that up and throw in a 24 hour fast or throwing a 36 hour fast. We're throwing a five day fast, or maybe you're doing too much fast and you throw in a day with no fasting. If you've been in ketosis for eight months, it's time to flex out because the body's going to go into preservation mode. If you are in ketosis, but you don't want to flex out eat different keto foods. Your gut Mirko, Brian has to adapt to that. The adaptation is what we want. Adaptation creates a mitochondrial fitness. When you force adaptation and change, good cells get stronger, bad cells don't adapt. So the goal here for a plateau, mix it up, change the foods, change your routine, stick with it, focus on non-scale victories. 1 (35m 54s): Like the, your body fat percentage. Like you just brought up the way your clothes fit, your lab work, and then keep getting healthy. And the weight will come off eventually. But don't focus on the scale. Focus on the health benefits you're getting. 0 (36m 7s): Yeah, love that. Mixing it up. What type of things do you mix it up? You're talking about make getting your mitochondria healthy. I actually been doing some infrared and some cold plunging. Now you're in Miami. You know, for me, I, I can call, I can go in my backyard and lay in the snow and get, get some hormesis from that. What type of things, if you do or do do as far as, you know, hormetic stressors that can help strengthen your mitochondria. 1 (36m 36s): Yeah. I think cold exposure is terrific. You know, easy for you to just go outside and get it. I got to like throw some ice into the tub. Right? I think hormetic stressors are very, very important for adaptation and cellular health. So, I mean, for example, I'm standing on a PE a PEMF mat right now as I do this interview. Right. So I'm getting some grounding benefits. I'm getting some benefits. I have a, a panel of red lights here. 0 (37m 2s): Oh yeah. Is that like the juve or 1 (37m 4s): Very similar to the G of, I have four big panels that I do. So I'm getting my red light therapy. I have this face mask, red light therapy from Hm. A higher dose. I have my infrared sauna blanket down there. So I have all these tools, right. Those are the ones I use and it creates a hormetic stress. Now you don't want too much of it. Right. There's a sweet spot there. Like cold exposure is great, but you sit in a cold tub for 30 minutes along, or you could hurt yourself. Right. So having the right dose, depending on your heart medic curve, it's important to understand. But those are a few that I do. So he had exposure through Miami sun PEMF mat red light therapy and my infrared sauna, a blanket. 0 (37m 43s): Okay. Oh, and the thing you're standing on is what is it called? Just 1 (37m 48s): It's called a P E N F Matt pulse, pulse, electromagnetic field mat from higher 0 (37m 55s): Dose. Do you like them? 1 (37m 57s): Yeah. Terrific. I love it. What it does, is it stimulates or simulate? Excuse me. Grounding benefits, like going out and standing on planet earth helps thin your blood. It's like taking a handful. Anti-oxidants so I'll check that out here. And I'm in my apartment. So might as well get some grounding benefits in my apartment. 0 (38m 14s): Yeah, no. Cause yeah. Cause like, especially now, like in Chicago, like I'm not really walking outside with my bare feet on, on the, you know, I could, I guess I could do that, but that's hormesis, But let me tell you it's it sounds like you got some great tools you should definitely get into and try some cold plunging. Cause that'll change that. That's going gonna, that's going to be a game changer. I think if you've ever done that. 1 (38m 36s): Yeah. Whenever I do it, I feel, I feel great afterwards. Right. I feel like a rockstar. Even if, if I put my water cold, like in my shower, it's just the pipes don't get cold or not. Right. So I'd have to strategically get some ice and put it into a tub. 0 (38m 50s): It's a little more challenging for you. I can, I can see that, 1 (38m 53s): But you're right. There's so many benefits to it. I agree. 0 (38m 57s): And I was going to ask and it just sort of, oh yeah. So for monitoring ketosis, are you using, I noticed on your website like that, like a keto mojo or something like that, the monitor is that just maybe walk us through how you would do that. 1 (39m 12s): Yeah. First of all, I tell people don't chase ketones, chase results. You don't want higher ketones, just like you don't want a higher glucose, but there is a sweet spot. And I do think in the beginning, it's important to look at your glucose and ketones. There's three ways to test ketones. There is a CDOT acetate, which is Neren. There is acetone in the breath and then there's a beta hydroxy butyrate in the blood. The CDOT acid Tate in the urine is not very accurate. So I would throw that out. I wouldn't use urine strips. A lot of people do because they're cheap. But if the body and the brain is metabolizing the ketones, which is what you want, the C2 acetate will not spill out on the urine and it'll give you a false negative. 1 (39m 54s): So it'll just give you bad results. Acetone and the breath, breath meters have been hit or miss over the years, but Biosense makes a good one. So if I was going to use one, it would be Biosense. I've interviewed them a couple of times, but the gold standard is still beta hydroxybutyrate blood. So I use keto mojo. I love keto mojo because it gives you both blood glucose and blood ketones. And I would say the sweet spot for ketones blood 0.8 to 2.8. If you're in that range, that's a good, good marker for, you know, the, the, the, whatever your protocol you're following is working for you. You're in nutritional ketosis at that point. 0 (40m 29s): Yeah. I think that's one thing I haven't, haven't done. I think that's going to be for the new year. My new, 1 (40m 34s): Yeah, that'd be good. We'll talk about it when I interview on my show. Okay. 0 (40m 37s): Oh, that would be great. I'll I'll have to get one. And I'm curious because, so, so you just take it, you just do it obviously once it, once it, we don't have to probably do it every day, but you, you test yourself from time to time. And then I'm assuming when you have your days where you're getting out of your flexing, you retest just to see that you've gotten out of it. Is that sound about right? 1 (40m 57s): Yeah, exactly. You could do it that way. And then when you go back into ketosis the next day, or the protocol for keto, you can test to see how quick it takes you to get back in, which is a good sign of metabolic health too. Okay. 0 (41m 7s): Okay. Yeah. I'm going to add that to the, to the repertoire. Awesome. I love it. Before we finish up here, maybe perhaps this is a question I ask most of my guests. I, I asked them if you, if you wanted to, if you had someone came here, they wanted to get their body back to what it once was. Let's just say 10, 15 years ago, what would, what would be one of your, your biggest tips that you'd give that individual? 1 (41m 32s): Hmm. I would say that's why you cannot heal a body that you hate. Okay. Dr. Will Cole said that my friend, Dr. Will Cole, you cannot heal a body that you hate. I would take that a step further and say, you cannot heal a body that has any hate, hate for yourself, hate for other people. So eliminate the hatred, the resentfulness, and switch that for vitamin G gratitude. Vitamin G is if there was a magic pill that could reduce inflammation, help you live a longer, healthier life, help you reclaim your body. That would be vitamin G gratitude because what you appreciate, appreciate. 1 (42m 12s): So develop a gratitude practice. Whenever you find yourself with a toxic thought, as thinking, thinking, thought, switch it for a healthy, abundant, loving, grateful thought. And the better you get at that, the more you're going to lower inflammation, you're going to help heal your body. So I would start right there. And then of course the Quito, the fast thing and sleep and all that. But if you don't have, if you're not inner sizing first, that doesn't matter what you do out exercising wise. Innercise first. So I would say love and gratitude. Two of the biggest healers that you have in this world, they're free, easy to do, and it's easy not to do, but the more you get into a practice of it, I'm telling you it'll reduce inflammation and you'll be able to reclaim your body and everything else that you do, supplements, diet fasting will upgrade by default. 1 (42m 58s): When you focus on love and gratitude, 0 (43m 0s): Well said, well said, do you definitely want a route? I wasn't sure where you were going to go. Which, which angle you could go. But I liked that vitamin G I got a coin that term you might, 1 (43m 11s): I know, right? You gotta get a pad on that thing. 0 (43m 13s): Maybe that'll be your next book. 1 (43m 15s): I always talk about gratitude. You know, I always lecture on it. So maybe I love it. I think it's so important. 0 (43m 21s): Yeah. I love that. And, and when do you normally do your gratitude? Do, do you do journal in the morning at night? Is that something you do the best 1 (43m 29s): It's time to do it is in the morning and before bed. That's when the subconscious mind is highly impressionable. So I do it first thing in the morning, for sure. I have a notepad by my nightstand. I write down 10 to 15, 10 to 15 things I'm grateful for. And then right before bed, I'll write down 10 to 15 things that I'm grateful for that happened during the day. And I have, I haven't missed a single day of writing gratitude and goals in about six years. I've been super consistent. I have notebooks and notebooks just filled with gratitude and goals. So I understand that what you appreciate appreciates, and I wanna, you know, get more things to appreciate. So I'm going to focus on, on all the things I'm grateful for. There's always something to be grateful for. No matter what. 1 (44m 9s): Yeah, 0 (44m 9s): No, that's well said and I can definitely feel your energy. And, and I don't know you have, I have, you know, a lot of guests that come on and everyone's been great, but you can sort of feel when someone has that, that sort of inner peace and that gratitude within them. So I can definitely feel that. And so thank 1 (44m 24s): You, Brian. That's awesome. 0 (44m 25s): Yeah, but I, you know, I appreciate you coming on Ben and I look forward to coming on yours in a few months here and thanks for dropping a ton of knowledge on us today. 1 (44m 36s): Thank you for having me on your show and you're doing amazing work. Can wait to bring you on my keto camp podcast. Let's keep educating and I appreciate you 0 (44m 42s): Having me today. Thank you. Yeah, no problem. Hey, get lean equally nation. Are you a man between the ages of 40 and 60 years old looking to lose inches around your waist have significantly more energy throughout the day and gain muscle all while minimizing the risk of injuries? Well, I'm looking for three to five people to work one-on-one with in my fat burner blueprint signature program, which I've developed by utilizing my 15 years experience in the health and fitness space. This program is designed specifically for those committed, to making serious progress towards their health goals. Over the next six months, we will focus on sleep stress, nutrition, meal, timing, and building lean muscle. 0 (45m 27s): If this sounds like a fit for you, email firstname.lastname@example.org with the subject line blueprint. That's email@example.com with the subject line blueprint. Thanks for listening to the get lean eat clean podcast. 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