0 (1s): Coming up on the get lean clean podcast. 1 (4s): And you notice just creating a little bit of discomfort in your daily routine. I think it starts to help you deal with day to day stress better. You know, once you start to lean into stress, whether that's through workout or fasting or cold exposure or even breath work, cuz that can sometimes be uncomfortable, it starts to, to enable you to deal with day to day stress a little bit differently. 0 (30s): Hello and welcome to the get lean eat clean podcast. I'm Brian GRN and I'm here to give you actionable tips to get your body back to what it once was five, 10, even 15 years ago each week. I'll give you an in-depth interview with a health expert from around the world to cut through the fluff and get you long-term sustainable results. This week I interviewed breath and mindset. Coach Ivy Greenberg. We discussed his journey to overcoming addictions and depression through using his breathwork practice along with powerful habits to start your day developing tools for dealing with stress advantages of cold immersion, becoming resilient through acute stressors, the importance of breathing through your mouth and his one tip to get your body back. 0 (1m 14s): This was a great interview with Ivie, so good that I've actually been using Ivy every week to help me with breathwork. So definitely worth a listen. Thanks so much and enjoy the show. All right. Welcome to the get lean E clean podcast. My name is Brian grin and I have a Greenberg on welcome to the show. 1 (1m 34s): Thanks so much for having me Brian. Really excited to be here. 0 (1m 38s): Yeah. I'm excited to have you on I've. I, I talked with a, about a week ago and I'm looking, I was looking for someone to come on and talk about breath work and I believe you got certified with whim H in 2018, is that correct? 1 (1m 51s): Yeah. Yep. That's 0 (1m 53s): Right. Awesome. Maybe tell us our journey, your journey into learning about how, you know, breath and, and all these stressors, these acute stressors can, can help us in the long term. 1 (2m 4s): Yeah, so I found Wim H method just from, from just exploring different really modalities that were really popular at the time. And Wim H method was, was the one that popped up, you know, I really wasn't even looking to get into breathwork as opposed to just changing my lifestyle. I was in a rut and I saw a vice doc on whim. It's about a 40 minute short documentary on, you know, his method and just a little bit of the background on his life. And I, I took to it pretty well. I downloaded his app and I just decided that I was gonna dedicate my time, you know, in between work and in between life to practicing the method. 1 (2m 48s): It was breath work in the morning and then sauna and ice bath in the afternoons pretty much every day. Oh, wow. Very diligent for, for, you know, about a six month stretch, not, not ever taking a break and really just focused on, on, on the, the practice itself. And I found the breathing, the daily routine of the breathing really just opened me up in a way that I hadn't, I hadn't had in a long time. And then that spiraled into better eating habits, better sleeping habits. And it, it sort of was like the tip of the spear for me changing my life. And you know, what I tell people now is that once I started that daily breathing practice, my life changed trajectories. 1 (3m 30s): I was like on this path of sort of like, you know, not taking care of myself, not feeling good, being sort of low energy dealing with, you know, some, some addictive qualities. And then all of a sudden, the discipline of getting up every morning, going to my couch, doing 20 to 40 minutes of breathing, you know, and, and at that time, I didn't know, you know, the basics on breathing, whether I should breathe through my nose or my mouth or fast or DIAP formatic or chest breathing, I was just breathing. However, the app said to breathe, which was whim at the time, whim guiding you, you know, saying, breathe in and let it go. And you just kept doing it and doing it. And, you know, I found myself really happy doing it after the first round, at least. 0 (4m 15s): Yeah. And so you, you came across this and then since, since 2018, you've sort of developed other Mo or not developed, but maybe taken on other modalities of breathing and you, now you work, you work with people, you do workshops and things like that. 1 (4m 29s): Yeah. Yeah. So after living in Miami, I moved back to New York and, you know, luckily living in a, in a big city, like a New York or Chicago, Miami LA, there's a lot of different teachers of breathwork. And at that time in New York, there was people coming through like Brian McKenzie and Dan, and even, you know, lesser known teachers and, and practitioners of breathwork. So I would go to events, I'd, I'd take on, you know, one on one sessions with people and I would basically get as much information as I could on breathwork and I, you know, I didn't even do it so much to like figure out how to like develop my practice. 1 (5m 9s): I think I was just in that sort of sponge mode where I just wanted to try all the different flavors and then, you know, also got all the literature, all the books out there. I mean, my laptop's literally on a stack of breathing books right now, and it's, it's a passion for sure. But then it started to become, you know, the idea of it becoming a career slowly, trans you know, it transitioned pretty, pretty slowly. I was working in tech at the time I was working for this sustainability company and, you know, I was, I was kind of in a nine to five grind. And then when I got certified, I started teaching workshops in the city. I was doing like one every three, four weeks at a gym called burn, a cold gym in the city. 1 (5m 54s): And we were doing ice baths, breath work. And I didn't really follow the, the sort of protocol of doing a whim ho workshop. I started to go on tangents and just really talk about, you know, people being unhappy and sort of like my story, but, you know, trying to help motivate people to get out of their funks or if they're anxious, find ways for them to breathe slow and calm, and just started putting in like a little of my own, my own flavor into the workshops. So that's, that's how it got started and transitioned since then. 0 (6m 25s): And in, regarding your own story on your website, you mentioned you were overweight and depressed and suffering from addiction and probably people like who are maybe, maybe a little bit more on the traditional side, or like, oh, how can you, how can breath work actually help you through this? What would you say? The reasonings behind that? 1 (6m 45s): Yeah, so my addictions were, were mostly, and, you know, people might not think of them as that severe it's pretty common addictions. Actually. It was, it was, there was some food addiction happening like binging at night. I was having a bit of a marijuana addiction for about 20 years of daily, daily habit of smoking pot every night after work. And really also just like watching TV and just coming home after work, lying on the couch, smoking pot and eating every night for 20 years straight, it felt like, and, and you know, that that has such a debilitating, you know, effect on your sleep, on your mood, on your energy, on all those different things. 1 (7m 26s): You know, I was waking up every morning, more tired than I was at night before bed. And I was having to like sedate myself with pot to go to sleep. I was this crutch and I found in the breathing practice, the discipline of getting up every morning, forcing myself to wake up earlier than my body wanted me to, because I was tired from all the pot at night and the food that the breathing allowed me to relax that part of my brain that was dealing with the addiction, that part of my brain that was dealing with the cravings, that like that part that really needed that, that release that dopamine. I was getting it from the breathing. I was getting this like rush of euphoria and excitement and calm and peace, all these different things. 1 (8m 10s): And that's the interesting thing about whim ho breathing is that the initial point of like breathing is, is up regulatory. It's raising your adrenaline. You're basically going whatever, you know, nose, mouth, whatever, but you're breathing fast and you're pumping your adrenaline up with that sort of fast breathing that rhythmic breathing. But in essence, you're also releasing all that carbon dioxide and it's putting your body into the state where it can go into a long breath hold. And in those breath holds, you get this really calming effect. Your heart rate slows down your blood pressure slows down. Your body just drops into this really deeply relaxed meditative state. 1 (8m 51s): And I always tried to meditate earlier on in life and could never feel like, like my mind would slow down. I never feel like I would relax, but something was happening to me in these breath holds where that feeling of, oh, I'm in this meditative state was actually happening during these extended breath holds. And at the time I was using the app. So the app allowed you to, to register your holds. And I was going from like a minute to a minute and a half to two minutes to two and a half minutes, sometimes three minutes. And you have to be really calm to hold your breath for three minutes, whether or not you're, you know, breathing hard and fast and dumping all that CO2, you still have to find a calm space. So something was definitely clicking there for me. 1 (9m 32s): And then I started going into the cold and the first like 5, 6, 10 times were brutal. I didn't like the cold at all. Like everyone always says, you go to a workshop and people are gonna do nice bath. And the first thing they tell you is like, I hate the cold. Most people do. We're conditioned to not go towards the cold we're conditioned to feel comfortable and relax and not have to deal with that. I was like that I was jumping into this cold plunge every day and I was having no idea how to relax in it. But then I started kind of breathing a little harder in there as opposed to like holding my breath and going into like a free state and just locking up. I started actually like breathing almost like I was blowing a balloon. And I found that helped me relax. 1 (10m 13s): And then all of a sudden things started to click from there between the cold and, and the breathing and transition happened. Well. 0 (10m 21s): Yeah, it's amazing. And like, you talk about one thing sort of leads to the next, like, once you, once you got your, once you got into a routine of doing breath work, it sort, it like it was a snowball effect and it created a positive cascade of outcomes that obviously helped, you know, get out of a bit of a funk that you were in for 20 years. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I, and that's why, like, I, you're starting to hear breathwork more, I mean, I'm, I'm curious to know, like, are you starting to, is it becoming a little bit more mainstream or are more people are talking about it? Yeah, 1 (10m 55s): Totally. I think, I think things like, you know, the James nester book obviously was like a big shift in the community. I think the fact that's, you know, mostly a respiratory illness became a big factor. I think the fact that people have been burnt out even pre pandemic, you know, and stress is, is probably at some sort of all time high in our modern society. You know, I think that the addictions, you know, that I talked about that seem benign and not, not that severe are, are prevalent. You know, I think the fact that people are struggling with sleep these days, I mean, you know, eight outta 10 people I work with when I start with them, they tell me they have issues sleeping at night. 1 (11m 35s): So I think all these reasons, you know, breath work, it's an ancient practice. It's a lot of, it's a lot of these other things in the world that happen, you know, it's these ancient practices that, that people, you know, they gravitate back towards. Yeah. When, when they feel like they need it, 0 (11m 52s): You know, it was nice and calm until my, my dogs just saw it here. Yeah. But we're all good. I was like, well, they, they, yeah. My dogs start the stress right now. He needs, he needs some breathwork. 1 (12m 3s): It's funny though, you say that I have a lot of clients that I do breathing sessions with and when we start the session and, and their dogs are barking, they're like worked up and then the people actually, as they're breathing and they're going into a deeper, deeper, relaxed state, the dogs, actually, most of the time end up sleeping right next to their owners, very relaxed, very calm. I think the dogs read their nervous systems and feel safe. 0 (12m 27s): Yeah. I could believe that a lot of times you can tell a lot by a dog because they're very similar to their owners. Yeah, 1 (12m 32s): Totally, totally. 0 (12m 35s): So anyways, what, you know, along with breathing, like, I know you talk about cold therapy, cold plunging, but I love that. I, I, we talked a little bit before we went on, on the air and I put a cold plunge back in my, I was lucky to, to have one put in my house and I, I agree. I think it it's, it's like, you know, we talk about having building like a fasting muscle. Yeah. Where, you know, you start fasting, it's uncomfortable and you know, same thing with the cold. And what would you say, what are good ways to implement the cold? I know you were doing it for a while there. I don't do it quite every day. I probably do. Yeah. Every other day, depending on, on how things pan out, but what are good ways to utilize the cold? 1 (13m 18s): Yeah. And I, I don't do it every day anymore. That was just a period of time where I just shifted right now. I think I like to do it on days where either I've just worked out like I, and it's like kind of like a post workout recovery, you know, tool or there's days where like, I don't really feel like going to the gym or doing something too strenuous. And maybe I won't even put ice in my tub. Like, I'll just fill it up with water and it'll be like about 60, maybe low seventies. And I'll just hop in and I'll just sit in there. And sometimes that can be enough, you know, it doesn't have to be this strenuous, like, alright, we gotta get like the water down to 40 cuz that's what I heard on the Rhonda Patrick podcast. 1 (13m 59s): And Huberman said this, like sometimes it's just putting yourself in a slightly uncomfortable state and slowing your breathing down is more than enough. The cold plunge I used to, I started this whole practice with it was in, it was in Miami beach. It was outside. It was this hotel spa that had it. And some days it wasn't in the fifties, some days it was in the sixties and some days you just got in and it still took your breath away. I mean, when you get into 60 degree water, it's still gonna have, you're still gonna have a shift. So I think for people starting out, like instead of, you know, it always happens at the workshops. People are always like, well, how long should I stay in? I'm like, how about you just go in and you relax your breathing and you can see from there how long you should stay in, it shouldn't be this. 1 (14m 44s): It doesn't always have to be such a quantitative experience. So with that in mind, if you don't have a cold plunge, cuz I know it's not, not always accessible. Sometimes just blasting yourself with the cold water at the end of a shower is enough and just getting your breathing to change and then focusing on slowing your breathing down or relaxing your breathing. A lot of times, you know, we instructors of cold, cold, you know, therapy tell people just 30 seconds at the end of your shower and go from there. And then you slowly start to build that practice in and, and you notice just creating a little bit of discomfort in your daily routine. I think it starts to help you deal with day to day stress better. 1 (15m 24s): You know, once you start to lean into stress, whether that's through workout or fasting or cold exposure or even breath work, cuz that can sometimes be uncomfortable. It starts to, to enable you to deal with day to day stress a little bit differently, a little bit better. And I'm, you know, I'm, I'm still someone that can struggle with day to day stress. It's not like I've achieved this level of now. I never get stressed out during the day. I still get annoyed when I'm driving and someone does something ridiculous on the road. I still get annoyed. You know, my baby won't stop crying and it's hard to go to sleep at night, things like that. But you just start to become more aware of your breathing in those moments. Like you start to notice, oh wow. Like I'm like breathing through my mouth. 1 (16m 5s): Now I'm breathing up here in my chest or I'm like gasping or I'm sigh or I'm holding my breath. And then once you can have that breath awareness, you can at least change the way you're breathing and your nervous system will most likely follow suit. Your body will start to realize, oh well now the nose is, is being enabled in your breathing. You're slowing down the exhales. You're like taking a couple like bigger fuller breaths. The body will start to relax. Like it's just, it's just how it works. And it takes, it takes sometimes as few as like six breaths just to lower your heart rate and blood pressure. It's not necessarily, doesn't have to be this grand practice, but it's, you know, it's, it's, it's our daily, it's our, you know, it's the daily constant, you know, it's 23, 20 5,000 breaths per day. 1 (16m 50s): And it, if they're off or they're short or they're shell or they're through the mouth, the body and the nervous system will respond accordingly. So just creating that awareness. And I think the cold is a really easy way to notice how you're breathing when you get in the cold. You know, if you've drop in and yesterday I did an ice bath and I've just kind of getting over my first stint with COVID ever. And my body's still recovering and I'm telling you, the cold is kicking my butt. Everything's really kicking my butt, but you can, you can really get a good measure of where you're at. Once you hop into the cold, like if you're in a really calm, relaxed state, you can breathe very easily once you drop in. But right now, like my lungs are kind of filled up with fluid and my body's a little bit more inflamed than it's used to being. 1 (17m 36s): And I'm just more aware of those kinds of things. So I hop in the cold and the first time my body's like get outta here and you know, gotta listen sometimes. You know, I had a guy at a workshop on Saturday that asked me, cuz I normally in the first workshop, I try to have people go in in a really safe way, you know, minute, minute and a half. If someone's done it before, we can go a little bit longer on their first cold or their first ice bath. But this guy basically comes up to me and he is like the third or fourth person to go and I have two tubs. So two people are going at once and he goes, Hey man, can I go in longer than, than what you're basically telling everyone to do? And I was like, well, why don't we just see how you do? 1 (18m 16s): And then we can go from there. But already in my mind, his, his thinking is not where it should be. He's not even thinking about like, this is gonna be really hard. He's like, I want to do more. So he goes in and has a somewhat negative experience. He's like clenching, he's like squeezing his whole body. He's trying to like muscle through which I'm sure you know, you know about. And he's just really like tensing everything. I mean, I could see it on his face. He had every muscle clenched and he got really like lightheaded. He got like, like he wanted to almost faint and I had to pull him out and I had to kind of like hold him for a minute and bring him out. I mean, you know, forget time, like he just didn't have the right experience in there and I felt bad cuz I knew he wanted to really like do something and it was really important to him. 1 (18m 60s): But sometimes we get in our heads on times and length of, you know, of workouts or this or that. And sometimes it's just, it's a more about a qualitative experience. Can you go in, can you relax your breathing? Can you slow your breathing down? Can you actually have like a moment in there where you feel the shift of it being at a highly stressed, like an acute stress moment to a calm or relaxed moment. Can you actually feel that dopamine hit you and your body actually like drop into this really calm state? So you know, everyone's different, but it's important to be in tune with what your body needs. 0 (19m 32s): Yeah, I agree. I think someone's starting out, like you mentioned, I I've said it before, like even just a little bit of a cold shower, just get used to that. Yeah. You don't have to build some tub in your yeah. In your, in your backyard or in your basement or, you know, like you said, using your own tub. Like I was using my own tub for a while before I got like the actual cold plunge where it makes it a lot easier. Totally. 1 (19m 56s): So you got one of, one of those cold plunges in the backyard? 0 (19m 60s): Yeah. Yeah. I have, I have, I have it in, we have a, it's like almost like a sunroom and I put it's like a perfect spot for a cold plunge. Nice. Yeah. So it's been great. And I agree. I don't utilize it. Like you mentioned, I don't utilize it every day. I, you have to like you, you have to sort of be in tune and be like, I think too many stressors, obviously. Isn't good. Right? Totally. So if you're stressed out all the time yeah. And, and you're doing fasting and you're cold doing cold therapy and, and, and warm therapy and working out, you know, these are all stressors. I think, you know, you sort of have to balance it out. What are your thoughts around that? 1 (20m 36s): Totally. I think, I think you can totally get a burnout from pushing yourself too much. And I, I, I work with people that that's kind of, that's how they operate, you know, they, they they're high performance, whether that's, you know, in their work dynamics or, you know, I work with an ultra-marathon or I work with another guy who runs marathons, like, you know, 10, 12 a year. And you could definitely push yourself to the, to the point of not wanting to do things. And I always tell people that, that when you're doing the cold, if you stay in too long and you get too cold and you're not comfortable the rest of the day, you're gonna start to create this sort of negative experience in your head where you're like, I don't really want to get that cold. 1 (21m 17s): And especially out in nature, you know, cuz you know, you go out to like a stream or Creek or a lake or you even jumping in the ocean when it's winter time, which you know, I've done a few times. You have to be really careful. You have to be really mindful. It's one thing, you know, you're in Chicago, I'm in salt lake. It's hot out, it's hot out in the summer. So if I jump in my ice bath and it's really cold and I'm shivering and I get out, I mean, what am I, what is it gonna take me 10 minutes to warm up? I mean, I'm lucky enough. I have a sauna right next to my, my ice bath. So I I'll hop in the sauna and I do contrast therapy. But if I'm out on a hike up in park city, there's this hike. I like up here, that's called bloods lake trail and it's got a lake it's about a two mile and a half, two mile hike. 1 (21m 59s): It's that elevation. So it's like a nice, mild workout getting up to the lake. And you know, I've gone to the lake days where it's snowing up there one time. The first time I went there was actually ice over the lake. So we kind of broke the ice and jumped into the lake if you're not careful in those experiences, even if it is just a mile and a half back to the car, if I overdo the cold in that lake and I don't know how to get myself warm after, and I'm shivering the rest of the day and freezing the rest of the day, it's gonna, it's gonna kind of create this like stressor of my body that, that stays a little bit too long. Like you mentioned early acute stress, like that's so important is that it's this short burst of stress that you figure out a way to downregulate from and relax from. 1 (22m 42s): And then you get that dopamine, if you push it too far, that's when it gets dangerous. That's when you start to kind of get a negative sort of connotation in your head from that experience. So, you know, everyone's wired differently, you know, like my ultra-marathon client, like, I mean, most people can't go out and run 26 miles just cuz it's Thursday night and that's part of the training regimen and that's what she does. And she rides her bike for 60, 80, a hundred miles cuz it's Sunday and it's like a recovery day for her. And I don't know a lot of people that are wired that way. So you have to be really mindful of what your body needs and same goes for like fasting and things like that. You know, you have to be really sort of careful with these things, especially when you're just getting started. 0 (23m 26s): Yeah. I mean, these are all tools, right. That we can all utilize. And that's the cool thing about like just breath work in general is everyone can do it. It's free. You know, it's the same thing with fasting to most, you know, I would say 95% of the people, you know, could do some type of fasting. Yeah. And it's free it's it can be easy after a while. It, it, it takes time. But with breath, breath, work something for me I've I haven't gotten a ton into, I do yoga and I do a little bit of meditation. And then I, I do find that, like you mentioned, the cold has to sort of has to force you to focus on your breath and, and yeah. And really become better at using breathing as a tool to, to combat any type of stress that you're feeling. 1 (24m 11s): Yeah. But then like you mentioned, you know, you don't say you'd practice, breath work like with a capital B too often, but if you have a yoga practice, you're focusing on your breathing, you know, I, I hated yoga for years. I used to get dragged by all my ex-girlfriends to yoga classes. And I was like, what is this? Like, why are my hands and arms constantly shaking in these downward dogs? And I was in good shape, like even with the pot and everything. Like there were periods of time where I was in really good shape and you know, I was a, a functional pot head, but I could never make it click in yoga. Like I never understood it. But then once I started doing breathing every day and I went back to yoga, I was like, oh, if I'm in downward dog and I just breathe calmly and I focus only on my breathing, then I can actually stay here for quite a while and I can actually go deeper into the stretch. 1 (25m 1s): And then all of a sudden this, this big click happened in my, in my mind and in my body. And I started going to yoga all the time. I was taking a, a class three, four days a week with, you know, one of new York's best teachers of yoga in my mind, one of the best teachers of yoga in the country. And you know, he, he pushed this this morning class. It was 7:00 AM class three days a week. And then on Saturday it was a 9:00 AM class. And it was really like a 75 minute, no heat, no nothing, no music. We used to just joke. There was no BS about the way he taught. It was just the yoga and the stretching. It wasn't like, you know, this esoteric experience, but he was as knowledgeable as anyone I knew in yoga. And it forced me to focus on my breathing. 1 (25m 43s): And for that period of time, I actually didn't really do any other breathwork practices. Right. Unless I was going to like a different thing or trying something new, that was my breathwork practice. It was that class because we had enough time to really sit with our breath and sit in the poses. So even now, like there's periods of time, like now, like I don't, I didn't wake up today and, and do a breathwork. I, you know, did a session before this. We're having our talk later today. I might go on a hike and on that hike, I won't listen to music. I won't talk, I'll just focus on my breathing for an hour and a half while I'm climbing up a mountain. And that's my breathwork practice. Like now it's become this thing where it's, it's how I, I look at my life and how I'm feeling. 1 (26m 25s): And I focus on my breathing pretty much throughout the day. And I focus on if I can feel my, he beating, if I can slow my heartbeat down while I'm breathing, things like that. And it's, it's really actually a, a very nice way to, to have this practice become sort of more functional to your day to day life. 0 (26m 44s): Yeah. That's a, that those are great points. And I think that for any of these like acute stressors that we've talked about once you've sort of wrapped your arms around doing them, then I think like you can pick it, pick and choose times to utilize them. You don't need to do 'em all the time and you can do 'em in different settings. Like for example, I'm a big golfer. So I actually had a, a, a tournament yesterday. My wife catted for me, this was the first time. Cool. Yeah, it was really cool experience. I played all right. I, the last two hall I did not play great. And, and you know, I also coach high school golf. So I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm used to seeing high school golfers who are just experiencing this now. 0 (27m 24s): And then, you know, I've been playing for a long time now, but you know how you respond to different things and you know, maybe a bad shot or a bed around, you can utilize these tools to help you in, you know, different areas of your life, whether you're driving or playing golf. And, and that's when it comes most handy. 1 (27m 42s): Yeah, totally. Did you, I mean, Kelson, there's actually a great article. I'll send it to you after later today, but he writes about the last major. He won how he's focused on his breathing. And breathing's been a, been a big part of his sort of like resurgence at this later stage of his career and focusing on his breathing in between shots and having a breathwork practice because listen, golf is stress like being out there, being in the sun, hitting good shot, hitting bad shot, you know, you know, it's just this sort of redundant sort of practice you're hitting the ball, hitting the ball. And then, you know, if you're, if you're in your head and you're not thinking clearly you're not able to reset after a bad shot, then you know, I don't have to. 1 (28m 22s): I mean, I can tell you your whole round can go into the toilet very quickly. 0 (28m 28s): Yeah. Yeah. It's all about just staying present really. You know, I mean, totally. If you get too far ahead of yourself, you know, thinking too far ahead, or if you're thought about a shot that happened 10 minutes ago, you know, none of, none of those will, will really help you at all. 1 (28m 43s): Yeah. And it's the same for a lot of sports, you know, I played high school basketball and you know, when you're at the free throw line and just having that same rhythm and form and breathing, I mean, I, I watch, you know, I'm a big Knicks fan, unfortunately, and I watch the KNS play and, you know, I watch almost most of their games and, you know, I see the guys at the free throw line and I'm just watching them breathe. And I'm like, all this guy's taking inhale through his nose. Nice. You know, and then, you know, it was actually Julius Randall, like two seasons ago, he was an all NBA player. He was having the best season of his career. And then this last season, he was just off, like something was off with him and, you know, he could just see it in his body language and the way he carried himself. 1 (29m 23s): And even in his breathing, he just looked exasperated. A lot of the time he looked really frustrated and it, his game was completely different. I mean, he went from, you know, career numbers to really an off year for him and breathing could potentially be something that these players at that high level could utilize. Cuz you get to that level, golf, basketball, soccer, football, whatever, everyone's freak athletes, they're all top of the food chain, you know, right. Top athletes. But what's, what's the difference. What's the thing that separates, you know, the guy that scoring 15, 20 points in the fourth quarter versus the guy that goes ice cold is, is their mindset is the way they calm themselves down in these high level stress moments. 1 (30m 6s): And it's the same for the golfers. I would think at this stage, you know, they're all, they're all incredible, you know, but how do they relax when it comes down to it? You know, I don't, I don't follow golf, but I was watching sort of, I was like on espn.com this weekend I saw was it Roy McElroy was winning the British open for like most of it. And then something happened and then this other guy won. And in my mind that's typically like, you know, what, what could happen to these tournaments? Like there's a, there's a leader. And then there's a, you know, a dark horse that starts to come in and starts to get momentum. And they start to think that confidence, you know, is building and growing and they're getting just better shots and they're feel they're just like kind of grooving their way into a win. And it's cool to see, you know, especially at that level that these guys that are, you know, the best of the best getting, you know, pressured into that situation. 0 (30m 57s): Yeah. I mean, regarding golf, it, it makes me think because I, I watch the open, the open, the British open, wherever you wanna call it. And yeah, Rory, you know, was leading all that whole final round and there was like this momentum switch and the putts were falling for cam Smith who wanted, and Rory, the putts just were just missing and you know, it's just a matter of centimeters or inches. Right. But yeah, golf is such a mental sport and that's why I've always been interested in learning about breath work and these tools that you can use to help you when you're, you know, on the course, one of 'em, which made me think was like trying too hard, you know? 0 (31m 38s): And I think 1 (31m 39s): Like pressing, like pushing like a 0 (31m 41s): Pushing, pressing, and you know, golf's one of those things where you have to give up control. Like you there's, there's things that are outta your control. Yeah. Like, and, and I think with breath work with meditation, sometimes people like, and like you mentioned, that guy that got in the cold and he was like, oh, I want to go for this long. 1 (31m 58s): Yeah, totally. 0 (31m 60s): Really just be, almost be in too much control of what was happening instead of just sort of letting it happen. And same thing like with golf, if you are trying to control too much and not just letting it happen, you know, that's when things can actually go against totally, 1 (32m 16s): Totally. And you get in your head and then all of a sudden, you know, my dad's, you know, my dad's a big golfer and he talks about his friends. Like one of his friends get, got the yips. And then all of a sudden this guy that was, you know, yeah, 10, 9, 8 handicap, all of a sudden he's awful. And he can't, he can't even like finish rounds and it becomes and, and happens in all sports. You know, you see it in tennis, you know, there's, there's, there's like three guys who have basically won all the majors for the last 20 years, you know, there's, they perform really well. There's actually a, a tennis player. I went to the us open a few years ago and I was back in New York and I saw this French player. Mofi really big, kind of like long, you know, strong tennis players, French guy, and, and just really bad body language. 1 (33m 2s): Like always like putting his hands on his knees after plays and just couldn't, didn't have the mental game to like really like take over, even though physically he's as dominant. I mean, you know, you look at him versus Feder. I mean, one guy looks like he could play in the NBA also. And the other guy looks like, you know, normal, normal human, but the mental game is just, is so different. There's actually a, a short doc on, on Marty fish, the us, us tennis player. And it's a really great doc. It's a lot. It has to do with mental health and anxiety too. He was, he came up with Andy Rodick at the same time. And in us tennis, they grew up together. They played at the same like tournaments and camps, and basically lived with each other growing up. 1 (33m 47s): And, and Marty fish was always kind of like in the shadow of, and erotic and erotic was supposed to be like the face of men's us tennis for this generation. And he could never be, you know, the main guys, except for, I think one time he won a, a major, but Marty fish, one, one off season decided he was gonna like, towards the end of his career, he's like, I'm gonna push now. I'm gonna go as hard as I can. And he had this incredible season where he was like top six or top eight, you know, played really well. One, a bunch of tournaments and like actually surpassed antic for one season. And then after that, I think he started like, press. He started to like push too hard and there's this sweet spot. 1 (34m 30s): You know, they, they call it in some, in some ways you can call it like flow state, that mix between sympathetic and parasympathetic, that, that mix between being like really calm in a high stress moment. Like what you're talking about with golf, where you're just like in the moment, you're just letting the moment happen. You're not pressing, you're not pushing, you're not trying to control too much. You're just playing within your game. And that moment can, can be the difference between someone, someone, you know, hitting it slightly too hard or hitting it just in that. Right. Perfect sweet spot. And, you know, breathing has a lot to do with that. When you watch some of these UFC fighters and you watch like people performing, that's really like that's as high stress as it gets in terms of a sport, you know, someone's trying to hurt you physically like put you down and you remaining calm in that moment and not pressing or not making mistakes. 1 (35m 23s): I I've trained in jujitsu. And you know, if you're making mistakes in jujitsu, you're gonna get punished for it left and right. You know, if you're calm and relaxed and you're able to slow your breathing down when the other person is gasping for air, that enables you to start to think more, you know, you can actually use your brain, you can start to use your training. You could just get into this flow where you're just, you know, reacting. And I think for all sports, I think slowing down the breathing, I think sport is really the next, the next thing that, you know, especially professional sports is the next thing that Breathworks gonna come into. And you're already seeing it with, with like some, some small and small points of, you know, Phil Kelson mentioning it. Right. And obviously practicing it. 1 (36m 3s): There's another professional golfer. His name escapes me, but I know he's, he's trained with a, a coach of a friend of mine. Who's who teaches breathwork there's a fighter from New Zealand, Israel. I think he's Nigerian descent, but he's his name is Israel. He's the, the mind bender or something. He, he trains, he big part of his training is breathing. They do these like underwater trainings with this guy in New Zealand, Rob wood. Wow. It's, it's getting more and more popular. And you know, you start to think the NBA guys, if they start picking it up and they start noticing their breathing because it's, it's, it's low hanging fruit for these guys. They've already done a lot of the hard work. Now. It's just the mindset training. 1 (36m 45s): The, the physical process is already there. It's just, how do you slow it down? How do you like get back to basics in terms of breathing? The UFC actually has a training center in Vegas and they have some of the world's best performance training. Breathwork people out there. Yeah. And it's just, it's just gonna continue to evolve from there. 0 (37m 4s): Yeah. That, that makes a ton of sense. And what would you say, you know, you hear a lot about breathing through your nose. Yeah. Like if someone's getting into breathing, like I, for a little while there, I was doing the mouth strips. Yeah. It for sleep 1 (37m 20s): Like the Somnia fix over your mouth. 0 (37m 21s): Yeah. Yeah. What are your thoughts around that? And, and just breathing in general if someone's just starting out. 1 (37m 27s): Yeah. I, I wear mouth tape every night. Yeah. So I, because of maybe it's my 20 years of, you know, craziness. I, I still have the tendency. Maybe it's just the way my, my shape, my face is shaped. My mouth will drop and open in sleep. So I tap my mouth. I used to use som fix. That's how I started. But now I use a 3m micropore tape like sports tape. It helps me. It's, it's, it's a big part of my routine. I, I joked at my last workshop on Saturday. If I had to go to a desert island and I could only take one of my, you know, wellness tools with me, I would take the mouth tape. Right. Because sleep is just that important. 1 (38m 7s): And if you're opening your mouth and you're breathing through your mouth during sleep, you're not accessing the deeper layers, the REM sleep. You're not falling into that really restful restorative sleep. Plus your mouth has no filtration system. So it's not good for your teeth. Your gums, your immune system is the first line of defense for your immune system, the nose filters and cleans the air. You know, people that suffer from allergies, from, you know, constant sore throat, constant, you know, chest inflammation, chest, chest, you know, colds. Those are really easy ways to tell that you might be mouth breathing at night and think about it. It's seven to nine hours of sleep. And if you're working with someone and you know, for me, it's like, I ask my clients like, how are you sleeping? 1 (38m 51s): You wake up, are you more tired than when you go to sleep? Those are easy ways. Does your mouth dries your throat hurt? Does your nose congested? The moment you wake up, those are easy ways to tell that you're, you're, you're breathing through your mouth. So that's, that's a one really easy tool. And I have a lot of clients that wear like the, a ring and the whoop band and all these different sleep trackers. And they tell me their, their scores are much, much higher when they wear the tape. It takes about a week or two, I'd say to get used to, like, I had the box of Sony fix on my nightstand in New York for about a month before I actually started wearing them, because I just didn't want to do it. I just didn't wanna put tape over my mouth. And then the first week, half the time I ended up on my forehead or my hair, I just taking it off in the night. 1 (39m 36s): Yeah. But then once it finally stayed on through the night and I actually woke up in the morning and the tape was still there, I was like, oh wow. That's a big difference. Like the, the way I felt when I woke up in the morning was a huge difference. So that's, that's definitely a good way to start. Especially if those things I mentioned are something you're noticing, plus two, they, you know, there's a lot of neurological diseases they're talking about. Like, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, you know, the gray matter in your brain, the part that like kind of gets sticky in your brain that needs to be flushed out. That happens during sleep, you know, like these illnesses and these ailments, like if you're someone that wakes up every night at 2:00 AM, and you're on your phone, you go to get a snack from the kitchen. 1 (40m 19s): Those are the kinds of things that, that will have a, a lasting effect on your mental health as you get older. So deep restful sleep is, is critical. If someone's just wanting to get started with a breathwork practice, I would tell them the easiest exercise or the most basic that I think has the largest impact is a six breath cycle per minute. So that's six inhales and exhales per minute. Some people like in, for four out for six, some people like five in five out. I personally like five in five out. I get into this flow with it when I'm like in recovery mode, or I'm just trying to relax or maybe gonna take like a little snooze or go to sleep at night. 1 (41m 2s): And I just go five in five out. I close my eyes. I sometimes I'll even put a pillow over my eyes. And go ahead. 0 (41m 9s): No, I was just gonna say, so when you say five in five out, are you saying, you're saying five breaths or counting the five, 1 (41m 15s): Five second inhale. So it's in for 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. And then out 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. And then, you know, I used to time it, I used to do set a timer on my phone and do it for five minutes. Now. I just, I just kind of do it till I, I feel good. And I feel relaxed. I start counting for probably the first two or three minutes. It's something I do in the ice bath too, which you have a cold plunger be great exercise to do in the cold plunge. Cuz six times is one minute. You don't even need to set a timer. If you're trying to, you know, time, your cold plunges, you can literally get in, relax your breathing however long that takes. And then once you get your breathing relaxed, and this will actually help you relax your breathing. 1 (41m 58s): And that's sort of the goal I set for people at the workshops, as opposed to like, Hey, stay in for two minutes or three or whatever, get your breathing into a five and five out in the ice bath. And that's when your body's actually gonna receive all the benefits of, you know, the anti-inflammation the dopamine release because you're calming your breathing. And if you can breathe five and five out in the ice bath, you're there, you're at the point you want to be at. So I do that typically five minutes a day, sometimes 10. I mean, that's kind of like the breath practice that I use the most. I'll still do whim hall breathing from time to time. I'll still do some other things, but I find that's the thing that puts my nervous system in the calmest place. 1 (42m 39s): And it puts me in a relaxed place. And it's the thing I could do right before bed too, that helps put me to sleep. And after a minute or two, I stop counting. I just feel the physicality of the breath. Like I feel my diaphragm expanding. I feel my ribs opening up and I feel my chest rising. And then the exhale, you know, if you take a full inhale, Brian, it's typically about four to five seconds. If you're taking a full proper breath, it's about a four to five second inhale. So it's diaphragm opens ribs, open laterally, chest rises. That's about four to five seconds. So you just start to feel that full inhale and that calm, easy exhale. And then all of a sudden, your body just starts to drop and get more relaxed and more relaxed and more relaxed, especially now recovering from this bout of getting sick. 1 (43m 27s): You know, I kind of need more recovery. I need to be more sort of calm with myself. I'm still tra I just went to jujitsu for the first time in a while. I've been hiking, but you know, I play tennis on Sunday, but my body's needing time to like recover more. And I'm taking those breaks by doing that, that exercise, you know, once, twice a day and, and giving myself that pause. 0 (43m 48s): Yeah. And so five in. And when we go, when you exhale, are you exhaling through your mouth or nose or does not matter 1 (43m 55s): Through the nose? It does. I think it does matter. Okay. So when you breathe, it's called the bore effect. You inhale oxygen and your lungs convert that oxygen to carbon dioxide, and then you exhale CO2 out. So when you're pushing that CO2 out, if you're utilizing your mouth, your mouth is a, a larger, you know, apparatus. So it's pushing more CO2 out, which sometimes in a workout is good. Like you wanna re your CO2 is building, not just from breathing, but also from burning energy. So you really want to get rid of it. However, if you have an intolerance to CO2, meaning your body gets really stressed out. When the CO2 levels start to rise, then you're gonna be an inefficient breather. 1 (44m 38s): Meaning you're gonna over breath. You're gonna breathe more than that. 23,000 times per day, you're gonna be breathing heavier, harder using your mouth more. Cause your body's gonna feel this sense of like get the CO2 out and also needing more air. So the more you can use your nose exclusively on the inhalation and the exhalation, the more your body will relax with breathing. The more efficient you'll be with breathing. The nose also creates nitric oxide for your lungs and for your body. Nitric oxide is a vasodilator. So it helps the blood flow more vigorously through your body. It's antiviral antifungal. You only get nitric oxide through the nose and the nasal cavities in the lungs. 1 (45m 21s): You don't get it through your mouth. The mouth has no filter. So even on the exhales, you know, if you're working with someone or your, your training and your throat's constantly getting dry, your mouth's getting dry. You know, you're, you're pushing out too much CO2. It's creating inefficiencies in your breath. So, you know, if you look at the top athletes, you know, some of the, some of the best marathon runners, some of the best runners are only breathing through their nose. You know, this UFC fighter, you know, only using his nose, not pushing out all that extra CO2 because CO2 is not necessarily the enemy. You don't actually wanna be, you know, incapable of handling CO2 in your system. 1 (46m 2s): You want to be an efficient, calm breather. So by doing that exhaling through the nose, it allows your body to relax in high stress. So you don't feel like you have to over breathe. Brian McKenzie actually, you know, I think he's the one that coined this. He looked, he was looking at breathing in terms of like car shifts, like car shifting manual stick shift. Yeah. So think of like injuring your workout. Start out like nice, warm up, nothing too strenuous. You're going nose and nose out. Cyclical, calm, relaxed breathing nasal in nasal out uniform breaths, second gear, nose, and nose out. So you're starting to build up the pace. 1 (46m 42s): Let's say you're out for a run. You're in your second, third mile. You're starting to move a little bit more. So nose in nose out, non-cyclical faster breathing. Non-uniform breaths faster, pushing in, more pulling in more oxygen, pushing out more CO2, but still getting that filtered nitric oxide through the nose, third gear nose in mouth out. So now you're pushing out more CO2. Your body's burning more. You need to get rid of the CO2 at a higher volume. So you want to get out that CO2. A lot of times when I run, I try to top out at third gear, I get to third gear and then either I have to keep my pace steady there and, and eventually get back to second or first gear or slow my pace down from third gear. 1 (47m 26s): You have fourth gear obviously, and that's mouth and mouth out, cyclical, calm, uniform breaths, relax, breathing. And then fifth gear you have all out end of the race end of the workout, whatever it is, non-cyclical fast. You non uniform breaths. I actually think there's a six gear too. The six gear is when you double inhale. So if you're running, wow, you start to, you start to pull in more oxygen and you can even triple breath. So to me, that's the sixth gear, but a lot of times if I'm training or I'm working out, if I'm in good health and I'm feeling good, I try to stay at third gear at the, at like, sort of like stay in first and second. 1 (48m 8s): But if I need third gear, I use third gear as I need it. And then I go back down to first or second gear. My goal in life is to breathe through my nose and everything all the time, if I can. But there's also breathing practices like holotropic transformational breathing, rebirthing whim, ho to a certain extent where you're supposed to breathe through your mouth to go deeper, to go deeper into those like therapeutic cathartic states. Because, because the mouth is a bigger, you know, you're getting more volume. Yeah. You're actually creating a higher alkalinity in the body because you're pulling in more oxygen and you're releasing more CO2. So you're pushing yourself into that state in an even deeper way, actually though, you know, Patrick McEwen who wrote the oxygen advantage, wrote that when you breathe through your nose, even though it's less volume, there's a higher uptick of oxygen delivery. 1 (49m 4s): It's like 10 to 20% higher oxygen delivery. When you breathe through your nose, even though it's less volume, that's why, you know, that's not why, but we were designed to breathe through the nose. We were not designed to breathe through the mouth. We're like supposed to use a mouth in emergencies, like in real high, high stress, like right. You know, running from lions and like hunting and like trying to survive moments, but not necessarily, you know, while we're sending out emails and calendar invites and, you know, texting with our friends, you know, we're supposed to be breathing through our nose like 99% of the time. 0 (49m 37s): Yeah. And, and it's not that easy. I, I definitely cuz it's something that I'm more conscious of. It's breathing through my nose cuz I've just learned the importance of it. But it definitely takes some time to get totally to get used to doing that. Yeah. 1 (49m 49s): I'd say it takes, I mean, if you're really focused on it and your mouth taping at night, you're doing the whole deal. It probably gonna take you like 30 days. And I tell a lot of the athletes I work with, you know, that you're probably gonna have to take a step back. You know, you're probably gonna have to take a little bit of a step back and your performance because your body's not used to not pulling in all that air and push really it's pushing out all that CO2. But once you start to raise your CO2 levels, then all of a sudden you start to hit like three, four more gears that you didn't even know you had. 0 (50m 24s): Yeah, this is great. And so, so yeah, definitely someone starting out, start with the breath, they could just do a simple, like you mentioned five and five out. Yeah. For a minute. Right. And then just sort of build yourself up from 1 (50m 38s): There. Yeah, totally six, six nasal breaths. Really. It could be even less, but six nasal inhales and exhalations is all it takes to lower your heart rate and blood pressure. So oftentimes like people think that I need to have this grand, you know, expansive practice really of like, if you just create more breath awareness, you just notice your breathing more, you become more in tune with it and you keep your mouth closed unless you're talking or eating that right. There is a huge, huge win. And from there, if you can start to expand on your inhalations and exhalations, you know, and then maybe work in box breathing or modified box, like I love modified box breathing because you know, it's an inhale, a hold and exhale and a hold and you can play with the numbers. 1 (51m 24s): It's not set in stone that it has to be foreign hold for four exhale for four hold for four, you can really play around with those numbers. You can inhale for six hold for 12 exhale for 10, hold for five at the bottom and just play around and see what feels good because what might, you might like Brian, someone you're working with, or, you know, maybe one of the golfers you, you train, they might like something different and it might change based on day. And if you play around with it, you'll start to notice things in your body. You'll start to feel that tension from the CO2 rising or the oxygen leaving your body or the CO2 leaving your body. And you're just like, wow, this is, this is interesting. And you become really in tune with what your body needs. 0 (52m 6s): This is great. And yeah. And you made me think actually right there with the, with the golf team was maybe having someone come in and do like you do like workshops have, you know, teach the, teach the kids. Because I think if you could, you know, just teaching kids that are in high school about learning to use your, oh my God, totally 1 (52m 23s): Not even, not even athletes. I mean, I work, I'd say, you know, in the last two or three years, I've used to exclusively work with adults, but in the last two or three years, I mean, I, you know, I work with someone's parents and then all of a sudden like, well, my 14 year old, my 16 year old could really use this. And all of a sudden you're working with, you know, teenagers and high schoolers and middle schoolers. And it really, it really makes an impact. And, and not just, not just in their wellbeing in their day to day, but their sleep, you know, their, their performance in schools, working with a lot of college students the last year, you know, that were, were struggling. They're having social anxiety. They were having, you know, just, just issues being back at school or not knowing if they're gonna go back or, you know, being at home for long stretches that they weren't used to being back at home for. 1 (53m 11s): So it's definitely helpful. And I tell them, listen, even if it's something that right now, you're just kind of doing, because you're supposed to do, you might notice in five, 10 years, right? This practice that we, we did for 4, 3, 2, 3 months together, this might be something you come back to. This will always be a constant in your life. Breathing is the first thing you're born with. And it's the last thing you had before you die. You know, you and I both know you can go days without eating days without drinking. You know, I got a two year old upstairs. You can go days without sleeping, but breathing is the constant and distress for high school students. It seems like it's the biggest in the world for them now. But life changes, you know, all of a sudden you're responsible for your finances. 1 (53m 53s): You're responsible for people in your life as opposed to just yourself and the stress, the stress doesn't change. Just, it just most likely will increase. The thing that we can work on is how we adapt, how we respond to it, how we deal with it. And the, like I said, at the beginning, the lowest hanging fruit is your breathing, like how you respond to stress is based on your breathing. And you know, whether you're taking a, a test or whether you're, you know, going out on a job interview, you know, your breathing's gonna could potentially dictate how you do on those, in those moments. Like, I remember just being outta college and being on this job interview for this, this company I really wanted to work for. It was, I think it was, it was like a sports collegiate company. 1 (54m 36s): They, they, they basically were, they owned all the intellectual property for all the sports, like content. And I, I really wanted to work in sports, you know, all, you know, kids that like sports wanna work in sports, and I'm gonna remember I'm on this job interview. And I remember I didn't breathe for like, what felt like three minutes. Like I was talking and talking and talking, my face was probably turning red or blue. And then all of a sudden I took this like big breath in like this exasperated breath in. And I felt like in that moment, I was like, oh my God, this is not going well. Yeah. You know, and, and, and, and I got the job offer, but it wasn't, it wasn't the offer that I really wanted. And I felt like I, I kind of blew it because I was so stressed out and I was so caffeinated and I felt like I had to be so on. 1 (55m 22s): And it goes back to what you said about pressing and pushing, and sometimes being really calm in a high level stress moment. Like, especially in the corporate world, it makes other people more relaxed. You know, when you can be relaxed, when you're presenting in front of a group, my last job in tech, that's what I did. I'd be in front of CEOs and CFOs, and I'd be presenting. And at this point I was dialed into breathwork and I was dialed into whim H method. I was taking cold bath, cold showers, cold baths, you know, ice baths, sauna, yoga, the whole deal, and I'd present. And it was always easy. It felt calm. And, you know, my boss was always telling me like, how you doing this? Like, how you so relaxed? 1 (56m 2s): You know, you have monthly quota, you know, you're behind or you're head. Like, you're always relaxed. Doesn't matter what you're doing. I was like, I'm just, I'm just in tune with my breathing. And I, and I walk and I voluntarily go into stress all the time. Like I take cold showers, I sit and, you know, ice bath and do breath work. And my body's very in tune with how to respond to stress. And that does carry over, you know, that really does carry over to your regular life. So I, I highly recommend it for your team or if there's anyone else that's, you know, in high school or young adults that are looking to, to take control a little bit more and have a little bit more autonomy in their wellbeing and their nervous system, breathing's a really easy way to do it. 1 (56m 43s): And you know, it's not a one size fits all either. 0 (56m 46s): Definitely. And yeah, this is such a great tool and something that we haven't talked on much on this podcast. So I'm glad that you you've you've come on here to share all this. And I notice on your website, you, do you have any upcoming events coming up where you do a, like, sort of a retreat? 1 (57m 2s): Yeah. You know, I don't, I I'm actually, we're expecting our second baby in the next few weeks. Okay. So I haven't booked anything out. Yeah. But I actually, you know, there's a chance I'll be out in Chicago in, in the fall around marathon time. There's a, there's a gym called beyond B I a N I was working with, 0 (57m 20s): I've heard about that. Someone just told me they joined there actually. 1 (57m 23s): That's the true. Yeah. So like a wellness. Yeah. You know, they, they have everything from IV nutritional therapy. They have cold plunges. They have obviously training facility, but it's a, it's a really a lifestyle studio. And we've talked, we were actually thinking about doing something in the, in the early summer, but, you know, it was just kind of hectic that time for me. I was back and forth in New York, but I'll definitely keep you posted. And you know, I'd love to offer you a session as well, you know, so you could give it a try, you know, at any point in time, you wanna, you wanna take me up on that? I'm happy to offer you one on one, just to show you sort of what I do. 0 (57m 58s): Yeah, yeah. No, that would be great. Yeah. If you come to Chicago, that would be outstanding and all your information for your offerings and things like that. That's on IV greenberg.com. Is that right? 1 (58m 8s): Yeah. Yeah. And then I also post occasionally on Instagram and I post workshop updates there and okay. You know, back and forth between New York and salt lake city, these days doing workshops. 0 (58m 19s): Okay. Yeah. I'll put that all in the show notes and yeah, this was great. I appreciate you coming on. And I, I think this is obviously a tool that everyone can utilize and young and old, and it's never too late, you know? 1 (58m 32s): Yeah, totally. It really isn't, you know, I've, I've worked with people in their eighties and seventies. I've worked with, you know, you know, 10, 11, 12 year olds and, and if you could slow your breathing down, it's, it's a win for sure. 0 (58m 47s): Well, thanks again for coming on Avi. I appreciate 1 (58m 49s): It. Yeah, no problem, Brian, my pleasure. 0 (58m 54s): Thanks for listening to the get lean E clean podcast. I understand there are millions of other podcasts out there and you've chosen to listen to mine. And I appreciate that. Check out the show notes@briangrn.com for everything that was mentioned in this episode, feel free to subscribe to the podcast, share it with a friend or family member. That's looking to get their body back to what it once was. Thanks again, and have a great day.
