Brian (0s):
Coming up on the Get Lean e Klean podcast.
Dalton (4s):
So again, we have examples historically of societies eating, you know, 3000, 4,000, sometimes even 5,000 calories a day for certain populations. And they're not experiencing any of this stuff. They're not overweight, they're not insulin resistant, they're not any of these things. And that's kind of where the bioenergetic view ties in is that, okay, so their metabolic rates have to be extraordinarily high, and that's against something you see in these animals that you can give. They will eat the same amount of food, whether it's a high fat diet with PFA or a high fat diet with saturated fat. But only the PFA group is going to get these metabolic ailments, the obesity, the, the insulin resistance, and so forth.
Dalton (48s):
And they're eating the same amount. So that pretty much tells you that the PFA is having some kind of metabolic suppressive effect, and that more of the food that those animals are eating is going towards fat storage and less of it is getting converted to energy.
Brian (1m 4s):
Hello and welcome to the Get Lean ean podcast. I'm Brian Grn and I'm here to give you actionable tips to get your body back to what it once was, five, 10, even 15 years ago. Each week I'll give you an in-depth interview with a health expert from around the world to cut through the fluff and get you long-term sustainable results. This week I interviewed bio-energetic health researchers, Jack and Dalton, with Analyze and Optimize. We discussed the importance of thyroid health, restoring your metabolism along with the true cause of diabetes, restoring gut health with Jack's carrot salad, the downside to eating chicken and pork. And they're one tip to get your body back to what it once was.
Brian (1m 46s):
Really enjoyed my interview with Jack and Dalton. I know you will too. Thanks so much for listening and enjoy the show. All right, welcome to the Get Lean e Klean podcast. My name is Brian Grin and I have two special guests on Analyze and Optimize. And that's not their names. Their name's Jack and Dalton, but they're with Analyze and Optimized. Welcome to the show guys.
Jack (2m 10s):
Thank you for having us, Brian. Appreciate yeah, man, the opportunity.
Dalton (2m 14s):
Yeah, really excited to talk.
Brian (2m 16s):
I started learning about you guys over the last few months, I would say in the bio energetic space. I've interviewed Jay Feldman, had him on a couple times. He's coming on one more time, actually as in the next few months. And so I loved all your content on your YouTube channel, so definitely check out their YouTube channel and lots of great short videos, some longer ones. I guess before we dive into some topics, what made you guys start the channel and the content around it? What inspired you to to, you know, put, to put that out there?
Dalton (2m 52s):
So
Jack (2m 53s):
You wanna take this?
Dalton (2m 55s):
Yeah, sure. Well, honestly, I, I feel like Jack can attest to this. It really happened because like I, I was always an athlete and I was always interested in like lifting and and nutrition stuff. Then when I got to college, people normally gain like, whatever they call it, like the freshman 15, right? But mine was like a freshman 50, like five zero. So yeah, kind of set me down a rabbit hole of doing like keto and fasting and carnivore and starting to get into the science. And I've always been interested in science in general. That was like always gonna be my degree and whatever.
Dalton (3m 35s):
So it was kind of like a good fit. Like I like started to figure some things out and then my health sort of deteriorated on the keto stuff, but we, we made the channel because we were inspired by a lot of the guys in the, in the keto space who were, you know, talking about the mechanisms and how to apply it and stuff. So that's like where we really got our start. And then, you know, more recently as we continue to learn and, and keep an open mind, we got introduced to, you know, sort of the bio energetic school of thought from people like Danny Roddy and, and Jay Feldman, like you said.
Dalton (4m 15s):
And of course Georgie dan gov as well. So yeah, that's kind of, that's kind of where it started kind of just at a necessity because things, things were headed in a bad direction for me personally. And then, yeah, I would be super excited and start telling Jack about this stuff and yeah, he, he became really interested in it as well. And yeah, we, he's always been good with the, with making videos and stuff and I've always sucked like with the technical stuff, so it was good. It was good for that part as well.
Brian (4m 49s):
That's a good part. I was, was, yeah, go ahead Jack.
Jack (4m 51s):
Sorry. I was always kind of into like conspiracies too and then I felt like this, this whole thing was kind of like a big conspiracy how the food pyramid looks. Nothing like either, you know, when we started with the low carb stuff, it was very different from that. And even where we ended up, it just seems that those in power aren't really, they have interests that aren't really aligning with the individual health. And I really found that part of it fascinating even though I'm not very into, you know, I'm not, not well-versed in a lot of in-depth science at all. I feel like I have a pretty good, you know, high level understanding of it.
Jack (5m 32s):
But Dalton's really the one who gets into like the nitty gritty, the science, all the mechanisms in the video. And then, like he said, I kind of make the video and then I just kind of wanted us to be different as far as actually giving you the facts and showing you why basically the elites are pretty much sabotaging our health in my opinion. And then we both kind of came together with that understanding to make the channel in summer of 2019 it was. So that's kind of how we got started.
Brian (6m 7s):
Okay. And then Dalton, I know you mentioned you, you were like put on 50 pounds of weight, extra weight and started getting into carnivore and keto and then what, what happened after that? I guess what, you know, what was the turnaround after that?
Dalton (6m 27s):
Like how did I start to get into the more B stuff?
Brian (6m 30s):
Yeah, and, and and did you, obviously looking at you now, you don't look like you're overweight, so, so what was your journey to to lose the weight?
Dalton (6m 39s):
So the journey to lose the weight was a lot of, quite frankly, like just starving myself in the name of fasting. Okay. And, and a lot of, you know, low carb. And, and then I moved on to the carnivore stuff. And I'm not gonna lie, like it gave me like a phenomenal physique, but I started developing like all sorts of other health problems, couldn't sleep cuz like the high adrenaline, just like racing thoughts at night. And then, you know, I was literally like torturing myself basically because I was told that, you know, and it was just, I have no one to blame on myself cuz I was just like me being naive, but it was a lot of not eating and that was, you know, being proposed is a good thing because stress is good and autophagy and things like that.
Dalton (7m 33s):
All these things that the carnivore and, and keto and fasting crowds like to talk about. And I was all in on that kind of stuff and, you know, give credit where it's due. My health did improve from the very low level that it was at prior and I did lose the weight and I think that that definitely had some benefits. But then I started to develop issues, mainly gut stuff on the, the carnivore fasting thing. I just think the immune system, my immune system just got extraordinarily suppressed from basically malnourishment at that point. And yeah, so right, the, and not to, not to like be disrespectful to to those people, but I feel like a lot of times in the, the carnivore and keto and fasting scenes, people tend to have sort of tunnel vision and this, this can be true about any sort of school of thought that people have trouble like looking outside of that.
Dalton (8m 32s):
So even after I started to develop those issues, I still did the, the same things for probably another year after that just because, you know, I just thought that this is, this is it. Like this is the greatest thing ever. Like this is what solves everyone's issues. Cause I was hearing all these amazing stories from people curing gut problems and curing autoimmune diseases and all these things from doing these like carnivore diets and stuff. So I was like, okay, well it'll just go away at some point. I guess I was in denial about how bad the health really was. And then, you know, at a certain point you just kinda have to look at yourself in the mirror and be like, okay, where, where are we really going here? Like, is this really like the life that I want to keep living? And you know, I was fortunate enough to have some people point me in the direction of, of people like Danny Roddy and I try to keep an open mind and yeah, just slowly but surely keep learning.
Dalton (9m 22s):
And now that's kind of the mindset that I want us to continue to have is to not ever, you know, even even with the sort of repeat bioenergetic stuff, like I don't want us to ever like assign ourselves to that in the long term because I feel like, you know, we could, we could be wrong right now. Like I could, we could go ahead and, and develop issues on this and then we don't wanna be locked into that mindset where, you know, this is the end all be all. I feel like, you know, constantly keeping an open mind and constantly challenging your existing beliefs is gonna be critical for any long-term success in any avenue of life. And especially when it comes to your personal health because lemme tell you, there's, there's no group chat on Twitter.
Dalton (10m 4s):
There's no amount of followers that is worth sacrificing your long-term health for. So true. I unfortunately had to learn that the hard way, but that's my long-winded answer for that.
Brian (10m 14s):
Yeah, no, that was good. Thanks for sharing that. And I like how you mentioned that, you know, you, you, you gotta keep learning and evolving and not get so dogmatic on one, one avenue or another. I mean I, we, I think we all fall victim, victim to it to some degree. Even myself. I mean like, like both you guys are Dalton for sure. Like I've, I've promoted fasting myself, I've done it myself and I think, you know, even having Jay on and talking with him, I fasting I think can still play a role in some people's lives, but fasting is also a stressor, right? And it can, it can be overdone just like a lot of things can be overdone.
Brian (10m 57s):
So when you get to so far one end of the spectrum, that's when you can maybe run into problems. Perhaps before we go into a few more things, why don't you explain to the audience maybe a little bit behind sort of the bioenergetic point of view and, and I know a lot of it's inspired by, you know, Dr. Ray, Pete, perhaps ex ex. Maybe just give us a high level of what that's all about.
Dalton (11m 22s):
Yeah, so I guess the sort of like 20,000 foot view of it is just that the primary determinant of the health of any organism is determined by its capacity to generate energy. And you know, there's a million different rabbit holes to go down from there. But the keys to that idea, I think Ray even has on his website is that the key idea is that energy and structure are dependent at every level. So that goes literally down to the, at like atomic level up to the organelles, like the mitochondria up to the cells. And then, you know, ultimately the universe is, you know, how how broad he takes it.
Dalton (12m 7s):
That energy and structure are interrelated in that the more energy system is capable of producing, the more structure it's able to maintain and then that structure helps generate the energy. So it can be a self-reinforcing thing from there. But the one thing that tends to disrupt this sort of harmonious interplay between these two things is, is stress. Now I'm, I'm not of the belief that all stress is bad. I don't think that even Ray or Georgie or any of those people would, would suggest that, but it, it should be understood. I think that that is what tends to interfere with both structure and energy production within the human body.
Dalton (12m 56s):
And we can, you know, go down the, the, the pathways and, and and whatnot. But that, that is really the, the view of the whole thing. So it's not like, you know, anything can really be compatible with this sort of framework or blueprint if you will, so long as it's still going in that direction. Like these, you know, so with something like carnivore, people will talk about why protein's good, why these types of fats are good, but it's all because under this guidance of like animal foods and that's kind of like the thing that guides the diet and then everything falls down from there.
Dalton (13m 36s):
And then you could say the opposite about something like veganism, but with the bioenergetic view there's no, you know, things are relative and it, the end goal is the same. So it doesn't really matter the input as long as the output is still that sort of generating energy Yeah, yeah.
Brian (14m 1s):
Output. Yeah,
Dalton (14m 2s):
If you'll
Brian (14m 3s):
Like, like yeah, no, that, that, that makes sense. It's, it's about mitochondrial health and, and creating energy and being somewhat like is as, I guess is as ef efficient as possible to some degree and, and, and not create too much stress on the system. And you, you know, things like keto and carnivore I think have helped a lot of people in the sense because it, it, it does remove a lot of the stressors that could be causing gut issues with individuals, you know, and they're getting rid of a lot of the like seed oils. I know that like lowering pfa consumption is a big, is one of the big viewpoints of bioenergetic, you know, sort of mantra, not mantra, but just overall thought and, and also obviously eating, you know, animal protein can go a long way as well with just the, the nutrient availability and the bioavailability of the protein and things like that.
Brian (15m 3s):
So yeah, I, I do like, I, I've been learning more about the whole biogenic sphere and you know, with having Jan a few times and it is interesting that it doesn't pigeonhole you in any one area really. You know, it just sort of gives you this overlapping very science-based approach. And I think maybe that's why some people avoid it because it, you have to really dig in like, you know, if you listen to like Jay talk, like he, a lot of times probably even including myself, 80%, 90% of people don't understand really what he, you know, really what he's trying to say.
Brian (15m 43s):
So you really do have to dig in. But I do respect the fact that you really do have to do that. It's not so just surface level and sometimes maybe some of these views are sort of myopic and surface level and they don't really dive into what's really being done. But with that being said, you know, I know that there's, you know, the big carb insulin model as far as causing diabetes and I was actually just listening to some of your videos and, and one about one recently re regarding Jay talking about the true cause of diabetes. What would you guys equate that to as far as from the biogenic viewpoint
Dalton (16m 27s):
About what really causes insulin resistance? Yeah, well I can tell you one thing, it's definitely not carbs and I mean Jack can speak Jack, I think Jack can speak to the fact that, you know, historically there have been countless societies who basically lived off of carbohydrates. So I mean that right there is is your, your starting point, right? Sure. But I, in terms of what I think actually causes it, it's actually kind of funny because, you know, working in research, like it's not even like controversial as to how to induce these things in animals.
Dalton (17m 9s):
So if you, if you want to keep a colony of, of animals lean and fertile and healthy, you're, you're, you know, your control mice and which which you feed them is a diet that's low in fat. And I'm not saying that that's necessarily gospel, but the, the standard diet is low fat and like 70% carbohydrate and then like 20% protein I think. And that's literally the diet that they give these animals in order to, that that's just like, without even thinking, oh give them this and they'll be fine. Like they know that it's not gonna cause any metabolic disorders. In fact that's what you compare the models of metabolic disorders to.
Dalton (17m 49s):
So I know some people have issues with animal studies or whatever the case may be and you know, that's something we could, we could dive into further. But then on the other hand, if you want to induce obesity, diabetes, and, and similar metabolic dysfunctions in insulin resistance in those animals, you feed them a higher fat or medium fat mixed diet. So both relatively high in carbs and in fats, but that type of fat has to be high in polyunsaturated fat specifically it's normally high in linoleic acid because again it's the, the seed oils that they use.
Dalton (18m 30s):
And there, there have been a series of papers coming out from a group, I think at the N I H but basically demonstrating that the fat has to be high in, in polyunsaturated fats for that to happen. Cuz if you give them the same, they call it the high fat diet in the literature, but it's really not a specifically high fat diet, it's a high PFA diet that also happens to be high in fat because if you switch the PFA out for saturated fats or bono unsaturated fats, you can, they are pretty much the same as the control animals. So I think that right there gives you the clearest example of this. And that is irrespective of caloric intake.
Dalton (19m 14s):
So again, we have examples historically of societies eating, you know, 3000, 4,000, sometimes even 5,000 calories a day for certain populations and they're not experiencing any of this stuff. They're not overweight, they're not insulin resistant, they're not any of these things. And that's kind of where the bioenergetic view ties in is that okay, so their metabolic rates have to be extraordinarily high and that's against something you see in these animals that you can give. They will eat the same amount of food, whether it's a high fat diet with PFA or a high fat diet with saturated fat, but only the PFA group is going to get these metabolic ailments, the obesity, the, the insulin resistance and so forth.
Dalton (19m 58s):
And they're eating the same amount. So that pretty much tells you that the pofa is having some kind of metabolic suppressive effect and that more of the food that those animals are eating is going towards fat storage and less of it is getting converted to energy. And I think that why that happens is, you know, still up for debate and something that, you know, I'll continue to, to try to read on. But what, what I don't think is really up for debate is the fact that that those are the models and what, you know, when something is a model like in research that's as close as you can get to like a clo like a like a done deal because that's literally what people will pay for because they know it reliably induces something.
Dalton (20m 40s):
So that's why I just find it interesting that people that I know that are well-read in research still may not be open to the fact that it is the high amounts of polyunsaturated fat in the diet that are leading to these things when literally that's the model is constantly used to reliably induce these things in the laboratory. So that's kind of my view. And, and Jack maybe you can touch on the fact that, I mean some of these societies that had like high carbon intakes historically and and never dealt with these problems in the history of seed oils and stuff.
Jack (21m 18s):
Yeah, well we don't really see much of that much benefit from looking at stuff from like an evolutionary perspective I guess. Cuz if you look at all different societies around the world, they all ate a lot of different things and they didn't have seed oils and they didn't have obesity and some were high carb, low fat, like very low fat. And then others were like, the Inuit is very low carb, very high fat and pretty high PFA too. But they still didn't really get the vegetable oils and they seem to be doing pretty well.
Jack (22m 2s):
So I think as far as that goes, that's kind of from an evolutionary perspective all that we really need to get into in my opinion. And then you could look at seed oils, beco like fell into favor and around they really started like being mass produced in like the early 19th century and that's kind of when chronic disease started and then just, you know, blew up the years past that when butter fell out of favor in, in favor of, of vegetable oils.
Brian (22m 38s):
Like I can't believe it's not butter. Remember that?
Jack (22m 41s):
Yeah,
Brian (22m 41s):
Yeah. Which they still make today.
Jack (22m 44s):
Yeah, I can't, I
Brian (22m 46s):
Can't believe, I can't believe that
Dalton (22m 47s):
Now. Now they even now they even spike some of the, what's supposed to be good butter with, you know, seed oils. Like you can see on some of the, the carry gold, like it has like the red, I call it the red warning label, but it says like with canola oil it's like what are we doing here man?
Brian (23m 3s):
Yeah, right. Why would they do that to increase shelf life you think?
Jack (23m 10s):
Like cheap? Well I think the main reason, yeah I think the main reason is cause it's cheaper and they might have some kind of sha shady agreement with a pharmaceutical company that sells statins as well or something just, just messing around just, well, I
Dalton (23m 26s):
Mean, I mean, but that's the thing. It's like, you know, it's like, it's so easy to dismiss some of these things as like conspiracy, but like, you know, when I talk about like the high fat diet model that is literally known to induce these ailments, like they know exactly what goes into that diet and the who funds it is literally the, like the n i h of the government and the same people that recommend that exact diet to the people. So it's like, are are you really gonna say that they like don't like that there's that much disconnect in the government that like the N I h and you know, whoever comes up with the d the U S D A, like they don't have any interaction.
Dalton (24m 10s):
I I just find that very hard to believe and at a certain point you just have to be like, okay, so if if I'm like the conspiracy theorist then you have to just really think that there are a lot of unfortunate coincidences that are going on because I mean we just see it time and time again that it's impossible for these like large institutions to not know what we know. Cuz if we know it then I mean lord knows what they know.
Brian (24m 40s):
And then I know you guys mentioned like metabolic rate and what would, what would be ways that an individual, maybe, maybe this is a loaded question but can restore their metabolic rate?
Dalton (24m 53s):
That is absolutely a loaded question, but that's, that's a million dollar question
Brian (24m 57s):
Because well, because yeah, it is and and, and I know you guys, a lot of your talk is around hormonal health and it's not just about having abs right, it's about thyroid function and, and being able to, you know, good libido, you know, not good hair, you know, things that, not that people don't want that, but I think especially in the Instagram era we are in, it is a lot about just how do you look and I think that's where we've as society have fallen off a bit because just because you have a six pack right, doesn't mean you're necessarily healthy. So what would you say some good guidelines for someone perhaps to, maybe someone's been chronically undereating for a long time and you know, their thyroid's taken a toll.
Brian (25m 45s):
What would you say would be ways that they can sort of restore that metabolic health?
Dalton (25m 51s):
So I like how you brought up the thyroid because there was a great paper that came out over the summer, I think by Speakman who's like one of the leading like metabolic researchers probably in the world. Very lots of, lots of like high level papers published, but they were looking at the difference between people who are sort of like naturally lean, who, you know, don't diet and everyone knows that those people who just seem to be able to not,
Brian (26m 19s):
They could eat whatever they want. Yeah,
Dalton (26m 20s):
Yeah. And they, and they could be ripped, right? And you're just like, and that's so unfair, like those type of people. And then they compare it to, you know, people who are in the opposite, were trying constantly fighting against the Roman body to try to keep this weight off because that's what we're told is supposed to be good. And I'm not here to say that, you know, having a good body composition is not ideal, but I think the way that you attain it is, is just as if not even more important. So I think if you're forcibly having to, you know, like I did, like constantly restrict and constantly basically starve yourself to achieve that body composition, then I, I think you need to reassess, you know, your entire metabolism.
Dalton (27m 4s):
But what that paper showed was that, yeah, they had the, the people who were effortlessly lean had higher metabolic rates, unsurprisingly, and they, and that was mainly characterized by an increase in the, in the levels of free thyroid hormones in the blood. So in terms of how to restore that, that gets us down a number of different rabbit holes. But the simplest answer would be, you know, basically just to replace what has been taken away in the diet, which is thyroid gland. So historically we would eat the entire animal. And this is, you know, something that I think, you know, guys like Paul Saladino and, and other guys in the, so like animal based, if you will, communities get absolutely right is that, yeah, historically we did eat the whole animal.
Dalton (27m 53s):
And that's important for a number of reasons and they like to talk about liver and, and other organs like that. But one key thing that is missing is that we used to eat thyroid gland, which contain these hormones. So I don't think it's crazy to supplement something like that. I mean, you can, you can look at it as like, oh, like it's not natural or it's like, I don't want to like whatever be doing hormone replacement therapy, but if not, you're really fighting an uphill battle, especially in, in today's world where we have all types of metabolic and thyroid suppressing things, endocrine disruptors, you know, high poof of foods that people have been loading up on probably their entire lives, like gut dysfunction, et cetera.
Dalton (28m 34s):
You know, I i I think that that is a very low hanging fruit and that might not do it for everyone. You know, obviously people are gonna need tweaks to improve utilization of that thyroid hormone in some cases. But I, I would look at, you know, implementing like a natural desiccated thyroid supplement at the very top of that list and, and some easy ways to tell if your metabolic rate is suppressed. Obviously the symptoms I, I think are key, you know, low energy, bad sleep, bad libido, et cetera. But also temperature and pulse, and this is probably something that you've talked to, to Jay about, but I think if your temperature is, you know, 98 degrees Fahrenheit 99 and your pulse rate is 80 to 90 B per minute, that's, those are pretty good indicators that your metabolic rate is there, but you would be shocked at how few people meet that, those criteria and yeah, so I, I would look at that as probably the lowest hanging fruit and then, you know, if that doesn't work, we can go down the line of why the utilization of those hormones might not be optimal in all cases.
Dalton (29m 40s):
But I I, I
Jack (29m 41s):
Would would say that that would be at the top of the list.
Brian (29m 45s):
Yeah. And Jack, I don't know if you wanted to add anything. I,
Jack (29m 50s):
No, I think Dalton hit hit the nail on the head. I just, I know you mentioned before the, the Instagram culture and like as far as like looking good and I just think it, it's interesting you could look at like one of the biggest examples, did you see the, the, the liver king expose a couple days ago? I'm not, I don't wanna say too much about it, but think about like, this guy's blasting himself with so much gear and he's telling people that he's not on it and you know, I'm not making a judgment on that necessarily, but you can't stop looking the way you do.
Jack (30m 30s):
So he's in the public all the time. So if he was like to take a break, like get off cycle as you know, so many bodybuilders do and what's necessary really to not die, he would have to look like a lot smaller and it would be like so obvious. So this brand that he's building and obviously like making millions of dollars on, he has to continue really destroying his health or risk losing everything. So that's just I think a very extreme example that just came out of really putting your brand above your health and the, the, the drawbacks of, of lying about it.
Brian (31m 14s):
Yeah. And for people who don't know, liver King is a, he owns ancestral supplements, right? And a few other brands. I'm, does he own some, a few other brands? I'm not sure. Yeah,
Jack (31m 24s):
I think, I think, I don't know too much about it, but I know he has a few other ones
Brian (31m 28s):
And now he's, there's an email was leaked on, on how many steroids he was on use he's been using to get jacked and I mean he's been, he's grown his following quite a bit. I actually use some of ancestral supplements. I, I I think they make a a, a good quality product and you talk about Dalton des desiccated thyroid, that's, that's actually one place you could get it from, right?
Jack (31m 52s):
Yeah, I'm sure it, I don't, I'm sure the company's good, but I guess what he was, for the audience, he was trying to say that that's how he looked the way he did, right? Which is selling people kind of a dream pretty much. Cuz you really can't look like that unless you're in like the 0.01% genetics, right? So he is really selling pe I mean I guess that was the whole thing. Like,
Brian (32m 19s):
And he was lying about it. I mean maybe if he came out right away in the, and and just said, yeah, you know, I I'm on steroid, you know, people would rather like, okay, whatever, that's your choice and, and you know, you wanna look Jack like that and have that, but it yeah, the fact that he was going around lying about it doesn't really look so good.
Jack (32m 37s):
Yeah. Cause one thing
Dalton (32m 39s):
No, go ahead. Oh, I just wanna say, yeah, like, one thing is that it's honestly like sad and I, I don't wanna speak for like about Brian because I'm really not familiar with, with a lot of his stuff. So I, I don't wanna, this is not about him, but it's just in general that, you know, just because you look good, you know, you could be miserable. Like I, I remember like when I was like at my like absolute most shredded doing the fasting and stuff like, man I was so miserable. And it, it's just, it, it's unfortunate that we kind of live in that culture where, you know, you only show people the best of you and then, you know, even that is, is a lie basically.
Dalton (33m 24s):
So it, it's really unfortunate and that's like kind of one thing that we're trying to instill in people is that, you know, we're, we're not, we are not perfect. Like we will, we have struggles with our health and we, you know, are constantly learning. We're not trying to say that we're like the ultimate authority on these things. Like we just hope that we can be, you know, a valuable resource where people can get interested, start looking into these things on their own and maybe like learn some things and start to figure some things out. But I, I think it is that whole Instagram culture of like, I am jacked, I am ripped, so listen to everything that I say Sure. And you'll be good. And that ultimately I think takes a lot away from the human experience and, and from and from your health because I don't think optimal health is gonna be achieved for anyone with like cookie cutter approaches that, you know, are about losing weight or, or really for anything.
Dalton (34m 20s):
And that's why, that's another thing that I appreciate about the sort of bio energetic thing is that, you know, I don't think that there is like a bio energetic diet. I think that it's really all about under the guise of, of increasing the metabolic rate and decreasing stress. So, you know, what does that for one person in one situation may not be that for another person, like I know Jack is a big fan of the carrot salad and that's something that we could talk about, but for me, I, I can't, I can't tolerate the thing how many times I strip. It's not like, oh, like you have to eat the carrot salad in order to like be a true like bioenergetic guy. Like, it, it's ultimately just about like what works for the person and there's like these infinite number of tools at your arsenal.
Dalton (35m 7s):
And again, the end goal is not like body composition, although it, I think if you're doing things correctly and you're listening to your body, eventually that is going to come. But it's not about forcing your body into this sort of stress state so you can look good for the fans and then lie and then be this authority figure. It's just the culture itself is, is entirely different within the, the bio energetic sphere I guess where people are open to being wrong. People are open to saying that, hey, like I've had this problem, can you guys help? Or like, what do you guys know about this? Cuz I don't know.
Dalton (35m 47s):
And that's one thing that I, I really appreciate about it versus, you know, common Instagram culture, bodybuilding culture or even keto and carnivore sort of culture of vegan culture, whatever. So that's something that I, I appreciate about it for sure.
Brian (36m 2s):
And Jack, maybe on that point, I know that carrots and Dr. Reiki talks about how carrots are beneficial is mainly for gut health, correct. And then is there like a, a special carrot salad?
Jack (36m 15s):
Well the actual, the main benefit I got from it was actually a lot of mental benefit. I think, you know, probably from a reduction in estrogen was probably a big factor in it. Getting rid of endotoxin in the GI tract was probably another big part of it. The
Brian (36m 34s):
Way you ma Yeah, go ahead.
Jack (36m 35s):
So you, I like to just take a, a normal like medium sized carrot and then sh you shred it like with a, I dunno what it like a food peeler or something. You just like shred it like that and it comes into like, you know, thin strips. So you put that into a, i I like to get, you know, the outside, like the dirty outside off first, put that in the garbage and then the rest of the shreds putting 'em into a bowl and then adding, I like to add coconut oil. It's usually what I do is I'll have like a pan on the stove put, these are the measurements I do, I, I don't know if that's what, you know, these are what most people do, maybe look into it. But I put half of a tablespoon of coconut oil.
Jack (37m 19s):
I take it out and then put it onto a pan. So just, just to lightly heat it up. You don't wanna get it like hot just to make it into like a liquid. Then I'll take a tablespoon of vinegar, put it on the salad and then I just salt it and then I put the coconut oil, the, the liquid coconut oil on it. It's a very easy thing to make. It takes five minutes and it takes about five minutes to eat. But I, I felt like it had like very big benefits really in like focus, anxiety reduction, just like an overall sense of, you know, feeling good and it's just cool that it's like something that could, you would think that would just have benefit in the gut could actually have a l a lot of other benefits that you weren't even expecting.
Jack (38m 5s):
But if, if you are gonna try it, I would recommend like giving it like a, a solid week. Like it's not gonna work in like one day and then like if I get off it for like three or four days, I could like feel myself regressing.
Brian (38m 18s):
Hmm. And you do this in the middle of the day?
Jack (38m 22s):
Yeah, it's, it's, it's actually better to do it a little earlier in the day if possible cuz you kind of wanna move you, you wanna like to move through your body before you go to sleep. So ideally I try to do it, you know, more towards the morning,
Brian (38m 37s):
You know. Okay, so you, you you shred up the carrots or you, you know, into a bowl and then you heat up coconut oil and then with some vinegar and salt and then you just sprinkle that on the carrots.
Jack (38m 49s):
Yeah, pretty much. You just put those three things on the liquid, coconut oil, the vinegar and the salt and you mix 'em up and I'll sometimes I'll have like some orange juice with it or something just on the side.
Brian (39m 0s):
And I'm glad you brought up orange juice in Dalton. I saw you drinking it right there. So
Dalton (39m 5s):
Let's talk. I know what you're talking about man.
Brian (39m 7s):
Well I see you, I see you. Let's talk about fructose. I've not Dalton, you know, so I've had Dr. Robert Lustig on my podcast, your boy.
Dalton (39m 18s):
Oh my god, really?
Brian (39m 21s):
So yeah, maybe you know what, maybe we'll I'll set up a debate. You and Robert and I've watched your vid, I've watched that video that you did on your YouTube channel regarding sort of debunking his, his sort of sugar hypothesis, which God I think like, I don't even know, 15 million plus views.
Dalton (39m 42s):
Oh, I think it's more than that now. I
Brian (39m 44s):
Think it's it more than that. Okay.
Dalton (39m 45s):
I, I think so. And you know, I can tell because you know, like if I talk about it on Twitter or whatever, then the more I hear the talking points and that the more views I know it's been getting. So I I think I checked it recently, I think it's over 20 now. But,
Brian (39m 59s):
And, and I will say I like Dr. Lustig. I, he, you know, he, he makes I think a lot of great points and he's obviously well versed in a lot of areas. I did read his book Metabolical and I did enjoy that book. It wasn't just all about his sugar sort of mantra, but what, maybe just give us sort of the summary of how you sort of debunked his, his sugar hypothesis regarding fructose in particular.
Dalton (40m 34s):
Yeah, so I would like to say that in hindsight, I think the tone of that video could have been a little less sort of aggressive. Like I, I don't, I don't like hate Dr. Lu or anything like that, right? I, I don't know him. I just like the way that he presented that was very, you know, in your face, like this is how it is. Like, believe it or not, like it was very flashy and like, you know, that's why it was so successful and, you know, kudos to him for, for making a very engaging presentation that has, you know, obviously influenced so many people. So, so we just kind of wanted to like fire back there, but there, there's obviously no like personal
Brian (41m 14s):
Sure, no,
Dalton (41m 15s):
Yeah. Problem there. Yeah. So I just, I just wanted to, to make that clear and if I made that video now, I probably probably would do it a little bit differently. But I, I think the, I think the, the science behind it is all, like, I haven't really changed my mind on anything. So I think, I think Dr. Lustig likes to come at it from a few different angles and to be frank, I, I don't really agree with his stance on any of them, but he, he likes to come at it from the historical, which is, you know, then he looks at, oh well from 1970 to, you know, I think that was, that came on 2009 to now we eat more sugar now than we did then, but it's like, okay, well we're excluding a lot of years there.
Dalton (41m 60s):
So one great piece of of data that was brought to my attention by, I dunno if you know Brad Marshall over at Fire in a Bottle? Sure, yeah. So he, he points out this, this 1930s, I forgot what year it was, but it was in the thirties. It was a book of agriculture. So this was like very well documented data at the time. This was like the best sort of tracking we had. And not only did they find that we were eating more calories back then in the thirties and you know, you could say that, oh well this was, this was not consumption data, this was like purchasing data, but you know, it was the thirties so people were not really wasting a lot of food as far as I'm aware.
Dalton (42m 45s):
And so, you know, this was probably pretty good data and, and we f and what that showed is that, you know, the average American family in that era was actually eating about as much if not more sugar than, than we are eating currently. And the other point is that since the turn of the century to the 21st century, sugar consumption has actually been on, on a decline. And that is because the, the government actually does not recommend sugar. So I don't, is it because of corn syrup? That's, that's like total caloric sweeteners has, has been on the down the downswing.
Dalton (43m 25s):
So even from like a historical perspective, like there have been eras and, and in in like relatively recent local history where we were eating lots of sugar and again, we were not having these problems. He has one study, I mean he's probably published more trials since then, but I'm just not familiar with them. He does have this one trial that he likes to go back to where he takes, you know, obese diabetic children and then he takes the sugar away from them, then they improve their markers. And you know, I'm not here to say that like, that was like a false finding or whatever.
Dalton (44m 6s):
And I actually do think that in some circumstances, you know, if you're already in that situation, you know, I think a carbohydrate restricted diet could actually be beneficial depending on the person. But what we also know is that back in the, in the thirties and forties, Dr. Walter Kempner was doing the rice diet, which was literally pure carbohydrate. It was like, maybe not pure, but it was like 95% carbohydrate coming from white rice, you know, fruit juices, white sugar. And, and this diet was so good at, at reversing people's obesity, diabetes, hypertension, I think it was used for specifically, but the rice diet.
Dalton (44m 50s):
Yeah. So yeah, so this is something that doesn't really get talked about much outside of like the vegan crowds. And this is actually one thing that I think they get right, but the point is that there's, there's more than one way to skin a cat. So, you know, just because it under the circumstance of a mixed diet, you know, in Dr. Lustig's study that they improved with the removal of sugar. That doesn't mean that, you know, under a very low fat or other type of diet, you know, maybe the answer is just removing the, the polyunsaturated fats and then you can eat all the sugar you want. You know, I don't think that study has been done, but you know, there's, there's more than one ways to do it and I don't think that sugar is the ultimate culprit.
Dalton (45m 35s):
And then the, the main point that he con consistently has made over the past shesh, I guess it's like 15 years now, but is that fructose is more a lip than glucose, which is true, but it's still like a very low contribution to the overall pool of fat in the body. And he, he likes to say, well, fructose gets preferentially metabolized by the liver and it's more lip than glucose, therefore it causes liver fat. Now he has, you know, all these mechanisms. So I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to straw man him, but that's, that's the gist of it.
Dalton (46m 17s):
And what he doesn't really mention is that fructose, it does get preferentially metabolized by the liver, but it doesn't only get metabolized by the liver. And when it does get preferentially metabolized by the liver, not only does it increase the rate of glucose oxidation, so it's a metabolic enhancer in the liver, but it also forms mostly glycogen. So this is why, you know, long distance runners, they like to have like their little sugary gels and sugary drinks like that because it's extremely efficient at replenishing the liver glycogen, which they need to in order to sustain, you know, their energy for, for the race. So that part has somehow been lost. That fructose is, is really good at replenishing the liver glycogen and through the bioenergetic lens, that's like one of the key benefits of it because people have problems storing sugar in their livers and this can cause you to go hypoglycemic and you know, you can have all sorts of problems from that.
Dalton (47m 12s):
But the, the main point is that even, even if fructose does get converted into fat, which does happen, I'm not here to say that it doesn't, but the vast majority of fat accumulated in the liver, in in people with fatty liver disease is from the adipose tissue and that fat gets released under conditions of stress. So mo basically what happens is that when you go undergo stress, the adipose tissue, your fat releases a lot of free fatty acids into the blood and then that, you know, can get metabolized by different tissues, but it's primarily handled by the liver and that can be a source of where the liver fat comes from.
Dalton (47m 55s):
And in fact there's a way of inducing fatty liver acutely with fasting in fact. So that's something that doesn't really get mentioned either. Is that because that's because Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, it is because you know, when you take away all sorts of food, it's a tremendous stressor. You start pouring out all this fat into the bloodstream, the liver gets, you know, a good chunk of that and you can acutely induce fatty liver disease or I don't wanna say fatty liver disease, but you can acutely induce liver fat accumulation in that manner. Now is that actually pathological in the long term that remains to be seen? I don't think that it necessarily is, but again, I don't think that, you know, getting fatty liver from fructose really is an accurate depiction of what goes on in those people.
Dalton (48m 46s):
And, and the key point is that at least from the studies that I've seen and I I've read through a lot of this literature, it's never the case that the carbohydrate to fat conversion makes up the bulk of the liver fat. It's always the existing fat. I mean it is kind of makes sense like why would your body take carbohydrate, which is its primary source of fuel and convert into fat when you already have this reservoir of fat that is there spilling out into the bloodstream under stressful conditions. And then the last point I wanna make is that there's actually some amount of research to suggest that fatty liver disease, the accumulation of fat in the liver is actually somewhat of a protective mechanism.
Dalton (49m 34s):
And that you really don't start to see actual problems with morbidity and mortality in liver disease until you get to what's called nash. So non-alcoholic STA or hepatitis. And this is the inflammatory sort of fibrotic condition of the liver. And what is that dependent on polyunsaturated fats because that process, that fibrosis, that inflammation is all driven by lipid peroxidation, which is a process that only happens with polyunsaturated fats. So, you know, if non-alcoholic, I'm not saying it's good to have a fatty liver, but it's definitely, it's like a protective, it, it, it, it, it may be, I don't wanna say that for sure, right?
Dalton (50m 19s):
But I, I don't think that having liver fat accumulation is, is the end all be all. And then, then the more important point is that it gets drastically worse once you convert to this fibrotic sort of disease. And that can only happen under the context of a lot of polyunsaturated fats in the liver. And you can't make polyunsaturated fats from sugar. You make saturated or you make monounsaturated fat from it, but you can't make polyunsaturated fat from sugar. So I know that was a lot, but those were, I guess were the key points.
Brian (50m 56s):
Yeah. And people might be asking, people might be asking, well where are people getting a majority of these polyunsaturated fats from and where would you say that, where, where would be the most I guess, popular sources of that?
Dalton (51m 8s):
Oh my goodness. You know, it is so prevalent that, well obviously it's from the vegetable oils, but then the question is like where people get the vegetable oils from because you know, even even people who don't, they're like, oh well I always cook an olive oil or whatever. It's like, okay, but you, you go out to eat twice a week and trust me that grill has the most rancid, cheapest, most unsaturated oils you could possibly imagine that they never swap out. So anytime you go out to eat, you're pretty much inevitably getting a massive load of 'em. And then on top of that, Jack, wasn't it, isn't there some kind of like scandal where like avocado and olive oil, like they were putting like vegetable oils into them?
Jack (51m 57s):
Yeah, I mean I don't know too much about it, but I've heard that like all the cheap ones that you see in a store and I've kind of like tasted them to like, I've kind of, kind of experienced too, like a lot of the ones you see in a store, like you'll, you'll either see it says like virgin and refined oils and if you see refined oils that
Brian (52m 20s):
Stay away
Jack (52m 22s):
Yeah, counts.
Brian (52m 25s):
You know what, yeah, go ahead Jack.
Jack (52m 27s):
Sorry. Real quick. And I think that they could even say extra virgin but then still cut it with for, for some reason like with labeling and how the laws are, I think they can still cut it with soybean canola oil, so you could think you're having olive oil and not. So I would just do any with any kind of oil like that olive or avocado oil, they're, they're pretty good oils, especially olive oil when they're, when they're clean. But you should really look into the actual brand that you're using and like look up third party reviews about it. Like I know California Olive Ranch, if I get olive oil, that's the one I get and I just stick with that cause it's pretty available and the research I've done say, says it's pretty clean stuff.
Jack (53m 9s):
So just be careful when you're buying either of those oils.
Brian (53m 14s):
Yeah, so I mean I guess one big aspect of avoiding polyunsaturated fats is to not eat out a lot.
Dalton (53m 24s):
Absolutely. That's probably, that's probably the biggest one, obviously.
Brian (53m 29s):
Or, or, or takeout, right?
Dalton (53m 31s):
Yeah, yeah. Right. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And, and, and, and the other thing is that, so monogastric, so so pigs and chicken, the fat from those, unless you're getting them pasture raised, which is exceedingly rare nowadays, like right, I had a hard time finding like pastured pork even I go to the farmer's market. But yeah, the conventionally raised chicken and pork, since they're fed corn, soy and these high polyunsaturated fat foods, they, they're like us, they accumulated in their tissues. Whereas ruminants, you know, beef, bison, lamb, et cetera, the red meats because they have the rumen and they have this like insanely complicated digestive tract, they convert even if like you have a, a cow that was grain fed at the end of its life, it, it converts a lot of that into, into saturated monounsaturated fats.
Dalton (54m 30s):
So, you know, I I think that the, the monogastric, so like chicken thighs or like bacon, things like that, even conventionally raised eggs can have, can have a good amount of the stuff in it because they, they accumulate up the food chain when you're dealing with a monogastric animal like that. So those are some other significant sources of it. But yeah, other than that, I mean going out to eat and then obviously number one is like, you know, don't bring that shit into my house. So
Jack (54m 58s):
One thing you can do, well, I know a lot of people aren't just gonna stop going out to eat because I mean, life does happen. So I think that if you're cooking at home most of the time and you go out to eat once in a while, I don't think it's the biggest deal, but something you can do is consume a, a high quality vitamin E when you do go out to eat because that can really ameliorate it's, it's not perfect by any means. Like don't just go out to eat all the time then use vitamin E all the time. But it's something that where, oh, if you do go out to eat, you could have consume a high quality vitamin E and definitely protect yourself against a lot of the bad stuff coming from the seed oils.
Dalton (55m 36s):
Yeah, absolutely. And kind of just to, to bring that thoughtful circle. That's a really good point because in some of the studies on liver disease, you can prevent the, some amount of the fibrotic and metabolic effects in the liver that can be induced by the high polyunsaturated fat diets. You can reverse some of that with vitamin E or you can prevent some of it with vitamin E. So that kind of goes to show the power of that as, as a supplement added on in order to mitigate some of the damage.
Brian (56m 12s):
And that's something, you know, I've no one's, obviously you guys are probably the first p people to bring up vitamin e I I feel like I, I don't hear a lot is that that's something that's e easily available, you know, good high quality brand.
Jack (56m 27s):
I think the best one is probably from our friend Georgie, we're, we don't have any affiliation, we don't make any money off, off this at all, but you can go to ideal labs dc.com Okay. And it's, it's called Toko, itt, I think it's on the normal store, so
Brian (56m 45s):
You know what, send me that link.
Dalton (56m 46s):
All right, I will send me that link. Oh man,
Jack (56m 49s):
I'll send it to you Ashley.
Dalton (56m 50s):
Yeah, no, if you, if you haven't, if you haven't seen Idea Labs, that's a, that's, that's a whole nother rabbit hole he is got, he's got a lot of good stuff. I really appreciate his stuff because we're pretty weary about like excipients and absorbability and all those things that make us supplement, you know, high quality. And he is, you know, he's one of the smartest guys I've ever seen. So he, he's all on top of that stuff. And yeah, Toko bit is a, is a phenomenal supplement for sure.
Brian (57m 17s):
Toko.
Jack (57m 19s):
Yeah, I would think if you just wanna protect, if you are gonna not fully give up the restaurants, just, just get a bit of to of it and have some with your seed oils.
Brian (57m 30s):
What, a couple other points here I wanted to bring up. What are, what are your feelings on salmon? Let's say you're getting a high quality wild salmon. I know that there are a little bit, it's a fattier fish, right? So it's a little bit higher in pfas. What are your thoughts on that?
Dalton (57m 51s):
So in the context of like what people eat normally in the West, like dude, I'm, I'm not gonna stop anyone from eating salmon because that is such an upgrade over pretty much anything else they would probably be eating. So if someone, if someone likes salmon, like dude, eat it. But in terms of what I think is optimal, look, the polyunsaturated fats are still the polyunsaturated fats, whether they're omega-3 or omega six. And you know, we have, we have a video about why, why fish oil supplementation might not be optimal. And it's because that these fats are so fragile and they have, you know, effects negative metabolic effects on the cell.
Dalton (58m 34s):
So yeah, I'm not, I'm not a fan of a high polyunsaturated fat diet, even if it is from omega-3. In fact, the Inuit that Jack brought up before, they, they are definitely healthier than, you know, we are in the west now, but they, that diet is high fat and it's high omega-3 and there have been some studies showing that they have an increased risk of stroke and I think some other vascular conditions, relatives to some other European countries who don't eat as much, who have like, you know, more traditional diet. So that's just something to be weary of. But you know, sure. Unless you're gonna eat, you know, a 90% salmon diet, I don't think that's really like a realistic concern.
Dalton (59m 16s):
So, you know, I'll, you know, I like, I like, I like doing smoked salmon from time to time with my omelets and stuff like that. Yeah, me too. So yeah, I think it, I think it's totally, yes. I think it could totally be, you know, a good part of it. I just like, I just wouldn't go overboard. And then the metals is another thing to be wary of.
Brian (59m 34s):
Yeah, yeah. The, yeah, the heavy metals, you know, mercury and things like that.
Dalton (59m 39s):
Yeah, absolutely. And, and Jack did a, did a great video on, on Brian Bander and, and his struggles with mercury toxicity. So it's definitely, definitely nothing you wanna, you know, play around with. But again, you know, I think if you're, if you're smart about it, you're not eating it all the, all the time then, then I don't know how big of a how big of a risk that really is.
Brian (1h 0m 1s):
So, yeah, go ahead.
Dalton (1h 0m 3s):
Yeah, I was just gonna say, I think you brought this up, but I would encourage people if they can to try to get wild caught and not farmed because man, those fish, they do not, they do not live good lives and they do not eat good food and you know, you are what you eat, but you are what you eat ate as well. So,
Brian (1h 0m 22s):
And speaking of fish, we, i we get from a company called cia, I dunno if you guys ever heard of them. I had the, I had the owner on my pod, the guy that started on my podcast. It's interesting, it's actually farm raised fish, but it's farm raised in a environment that is advantageous to what they eat, meaning like they feed 'em exactly what they should be eating so they're controlling the environment. Cuz I think the problem with the oceans obviously is these microplastics and things like that that you can't really control. But, so they're in a controlled environment but they're actually being fed what they should be, you know, sea plankton and things like that that they should be eating. And so anyways, cool company called Zootopia, we actually get it every month or two months we'll have an order come in and so, and every fish is, is tested for mercury and heavy metals and things like that too.
Brian (1h 1m 13s):
So really cool.
Dalton (1h 1m 13s):
Oh wow, that's really interesting. Phenomenal. Yeah, that sounds
Brian (1h 1m 16s):
Awesome. Yeah. Yeah, so check out, yeah, that Zootopia and what was it? Oh yeah, so a lot of good stuff on this. Maybe we'll do a part two another time. I wanted to just ask you about one supplement you did a video on and I've been hearing more and more about it probably cuz when you, when you watch something on YouTube, you then you get targeted to watching more videos about it. But methylene blue and I'm curious the application for it and you know, just your, your thoughts around, is this something that you guys are taking?
Dalton (1h 1m 50s):
So I don't wanna speak for Jack, but I, I don't take it every day. I take it, I take it when I feel like I could use a boost whatever, if I feel like my cognition is not, you know, where I want it to be, then thrown in methylene blue is probably one of the most power powerful things that I am aware of in order to increase the, the rate of metabolism specifically in the brain. But yeah, methylene blue, I guess the elevator pitch for it would be that it is such a potent metabolic enhancer because, not to get too technical, but the way that the like cellular respiration works in overall metabolism is that you're essentially taking electrons from food and then you're moving them through this complex system and along the way all those steps you're extracting energy from the food.
Dalton (1h 2m 44s):
But you know, if you don't, if you have certain nutrient deficiencies or you know, certain hormonal signals or whatever the case may be, these electrons can get sort of backed up in the system and that prevents the flow of them, which inhibits the overall production of energy. Cuz that's what the energy comes from. And what methylene blue does is it can work on so many of these different steps along the chain to help move those electrons through at various steps. So the most obvious example of this is, you know, you, we breathe in oxygen, we respirate out carbon dioxide, and the reason that we have to breathe in oxygen is because oxygen is the final acceptor of electrons.
Dalton (1h 3m 27s):
So it helps, it's the final step of the respiratory chain. If you think about it as like a wire, it's like the final step where the electrons get dropped off and methylene blue can actually sub in for oxygen. So if you have basically functional hypoxia in your tissues where you know the electrons are getting backed up and thus your energy production is getting backed up and that can lead to all sort of symptoms like brain fog or, or whatever the case may be. Methylene blue helps ameliorate that by doing that. So it's, it's one of the, yeah, it's one of the most interesting. How
Brian (1h 4m 4s):
Did you come about it? Like what, what draw your drew your attention to it?
Dalton (1h 4m 11s):
Honestly, the name, I thought it sounded sick and I was like, what is this? And then I started looking into it and I remember the first time I tried it, I like went out to, I went out to dinner afterwards. I know we're just talking about how you shouldn't be going out to dinner, but whatever. It was like, I was out with a couple of friends, I was out with a couple friends. It was like my first time taking it, I had like, no idea what to expect and then I was like telling some story and like, I felt like my, like my like verbal fluidity and like my, my my just like the way that I was speaking was so much better and like I was feeling so much like clearheaded like telling this story to all my friends at dinner and they were like, wow, that's like a really cool story.
Dalton (1h 4m 53s):
But wait, is your tongue blue? Yeah. And yeah, so from then on it's just been about studying it and, and trying to figure out like what it does and, and the mechanism that I just described about how it helps move electrons through the system, that's only like a piece of what it does. It has other actions like it lowers nitric oxide, which, you know, that's a whole nother rabbit hole, but that nitric oxide is another one of these inhibitors of energy metabolism and methylene blue can directly lower that. Hmm. But yeah, a ton of different actions, a ton of different applications. It's like one of those things where like if you just type in it on PubMed, you, you won't see a bad study about it.
Dalton (1h 5m 33s):
Like it's literally, it's used for Alzheimer's, it's used for infections, it's used for
Jack (1h 5m 39s):
Cyanide poisoning,
Brian (1h 5m 40s):
Cyanide poisoning.
Dalton (1h 5m 43s):
It's just, it's incredibly multifaceted and I think it, I think it kind of goes to show how powerful the, the metabolic stuff is because that's all methylene blue does is is enhances the rate of metabolism and it's basically a wonder drug. So.
Brian (1h 5m 57s):
Hmm, interesting. And yeah cuz I was looking it up, so this could almost be like, probably not something maybe you would do every day, but maybe every so often or even as like a pre-workout maybe.
Dalton (1h 6m 10s):
Oh yeah, I love it. Pre-workout.
Jack (1h 6m 13s):
I took it before this podcast.
Brian (1h 6m 14s):
Oh did you? Yeah. Let me see your tongue.
Jack (1h 6m 18s):
If you just, I just dilute it in water and your tongue doesn't really turn, turn
Brian (1h 6m 22s):
Blue. Do
Dalton (1h 6m 23s):
You have a brand better about, sorry, what?
Brian (1h 6m 26s):
Do you have a brand? I was, I, there was one company I was looking up.
Jack (1h 6m 29s):
Yeah, we have, we have a deal with a company called Mbbi Cure.
Brian (1h 6m 33s):
Oh, Ambi Cure, okay, got it.
Jack (1h 6m 35s):
And it's, if you wanna like put our link, our Lincoln bio or whatever somewhere it's, it's in our link along with our other stuff and it's the one we have. I mean you could buy a liquid if, if if you'd rather pay more and have it be convenient, it's definitely better to just buy the liquid. But if you want to get like, literally like a month and months of supply for like 30, $30 and then like, plus it's like 10 bucks shipping or something. I think ours is the best price program and it's very effective. It's, you know, certificate of authenticity, it's got that and everything, but you have to actually take the powder and you can either weigh it out for each dose or you can just put it in water and then it like make a solution.
Jack (1h 7m 20s):
That does get messy though. So it, the stuff stains everything. Like Yeah, it, it's crazy like how it gets every, like it'll, you'll see a little speck of blue on, on like your countertop and it's tough to get that off. So it's
Brian (1h 7m 32s):
Definitely, yeah, do it outside maybe.
Jack (1h 7m 34s):
Yeah. Yeah. Do do it outside. Cause it's like you think you're being very careful and then just like ends up somewhere.
Brian (1h 7m 40s):
Yeah, there's this company that looks like they almost make, it looks like gum transcriptions. It's just, it's called just blue. Just blue. I don't know, I, I don't know how I came across it. Maybe it was from another video, but it comes almost in like gum packs and then you can like trashes they call 'em.
Jack (1h 7m 58s):
Really? Never heard of that one.
Brian (1h 7m 59s):
Yeah, yeah. Probably a little bit more expensive to get it that way.
Dalton (1h 8m 4s):
Yeah, well that's, that's really the advantage of ours is that, you know, I think if, if you're gonna, if you're gonna do methylene blue and a lot of people seem to be wanting to do it, you want to get u s P grade because that's like the highest purity and our, our affiliate mb cur, they have that, they, they test for heavy metals, they're all very low. So that's not a concern. Like Jack said, they have the certificate of authenticity, it's all third party tested and it's the best price program like Right. I think by far because yeah, like making the solution yourself or weighing it out is a little bit more cumbersome. But if you really like it and you want to have it long term, this is like easily the best option I would say.
Brian (1h 8m 49s):
Okay. Well guys, we, we could probably keep going for a long time. Maybe we'll do a part two in a few months down the road, but a lot of great knowledge you guys are dropping on us. And what, what would you say, this is a question that I ask a lot of my, my guests that come on. Like, if you were working with someone and they wanted to get their health back, maybe, you know, maybe lose a few pounds and, and get back to where they were maybe when they were in twenties and thirties, what maybe one tip would you give that individual, I know we've brought up some good ones today already, but what one tip would you give that individual?
Dalton (1h 9m 29s):
Yeah, you wanna go? Yeah,
Brian (1h 9m 30s):
You each can go pick one.
Jack (1h 9m 32s):
Just something that, maybe I'll give something that a lot of people don't think about, but try to improve the environment. So the environment, the organism I is in I think has a huge effect on health. So like if you walk outside and it's y you're, maybe you're in like a city, there's like, there's like people like all around you and you're, you don't really love it. Some people love that, but like other people, like let's say you don't love that and you have to do that every day. I think that could have a large impact, impact on your health that a lot of people don't really think, think about. I think it's just like an understated part or let's say you don't, let's say you do like that and then you don't have that or you have lights that like are emitting blue light on on you every day and you don't even think about that.
Jack (1h 10m 24s):
I would just think about what is actually around you in your environment and try to optimize that as much as you feasibly can.
Brian (1h 10m 32s):
Yeah, love that. Yeah, I mean I used to be in the city so now I'm out up north and it's like so much more peaceful. It's like when you're in this environment even you can see that with dogs, right? Like you, you know, you can tell when a dog has not been in or where their owner is sort of stressed and the dog's in a stressed environment all all their lives. You can tell the difference between that and having dogs that are in like a peaceful environment. Humans as well. But
Jack (1h 10m 58s):
A hundred percent.
Brian (1h 10m 59s):
Yeah, that's a good point. Jack and Dalton.
Dalton (1h 11m 3s):
Yeah, no, that was, that was, that was a really good point. Cause you know, I, I used to live in a city too and now I'm like not in the middle of nowhere, but there's a lot more nature and, and it's a lot, it's a lot freer. I actually live across the street from like a, a cattle pasture and I get to walk by them every day. So that's cool. Yeah, little things like that. Living in nature is awesome. But if I had to say one thing, and I'm totally biased on this, but just based on my experience is really focusing on the gut. It might sound cliche, but there's, I think there's a reason for that. And I think that the gut is so central to all things health and that's why, you know, Jack is such an advocate for the carrot salad and you know, I talk ad nauseum about things like serotonin and, and keeping the gut clean.
Dalton (1h 11m 54s):
You know, making sure you have regular bowel movements and, and good digestion. I think that goes such a long way and it's so, so highly prevalent. It's not even funny. Like I can't, I can't talk to a handful of people, you know, even in their mid twenties and I know you're talking about how to optimize when you're even older. But you know, even people in college in their mid twenties, late twenties are dealing with gut issues that are at a rate that is almost unthinkable. Like everyone has low appetite, constipation, like irregularity or just general like nausea or like discomfort in the gut. And you know, being able to, to handle those issues and, and possibly clear them up literally opens up like a new world if you can do it properly.
Dalton (1h 12m 44s):
It's, it's actually pretty insane some of the experiences that I've had. Like just seeing what the world is like with high serotonin, like a poor gut function and then fixing those things up and then literally feeling like I am in like a different planet. Like I'm in a different level of consciousness and like the colors are brighter and like everything about life is so much more enjoyable and you just wanna get up and experience all of it as opposed to when you have poor gut function and high serotonin and things, everything feels like a threat and you just wanna keep to yourself and conserve as much energy as possible. So yeah, from my perspective, from my experience, focus on the gut and you know, if you have any of those symptoms, be sure to, you know, try to try to play around with things, try to learn more about it.
Dalton (1h 13m 38s):
You know, we don't have all the answers we're trying to say that we do, but you know, I think, I think we do have a lot of good information that, that people could, could benefit from with that.
Brian (1h 13m 47s):
And, and the gut can be a bit complicated, right? You know, people say, oh probiotics this, I don't know. And I think there's a lot of research to be known about probiotics and and their effectiveness, but what would you say one or two things someone could do to help clean up their gut health?
Dalton (1h 14m 7s):
I think, I think, I think the number one is just gonna be eating like easily digestible foods. So, you know, trying to eat foods that are devoid of excipients, gums, dyes, things like that. Just like all this, like garbage that get basically blindsided puts us in our food. Like if you can eat things that are easily digestible, you know, animal proteins I think like simple carbs and saturated fats, like whole saturated fats, that's like the best start possible because what you don't want is a lot of things to linger in your GI tract and cause irritation and cause inflammation and cause elevations in serotonin and things.
Dalton (1h 14m 55s):
And that is driven by, you know, indigestible like foods that are either undercooked or you know, like very fibrous, like whatever, like raw vegetables and nuts and things like that that can be extremely difficult to digest and irritating for the, for the GI tract. And then also just keeping regular things as simple as, as you know, drinking coffee and and taking magnesium can really make sure that, you know, if you're getting, I think ideally you get at least like one bowel movement per day. Cuz if you're clearing out less than that, you're pretty much inevitably going to have irritation endo like endotoxin buildup, excess serotonin and it's not a fun life to live.
Brian (1h 15m 39s):
Yeah, yeah. Wow, those are great points. And my other question was, do you strategically drink orange juice at certain times of the day? I'm just curious.
Dalton (1h 15m 50s):
You know man, I used to, I used to try to like time things and stuff, but I feel like the more I get comfortable listening to my body and the signals and things like, I'll just give you an example. Like one time I was like practicing a presentation and my words like I feel like I kept like fumbling over my words and I couldn't like put things together as well and I was like, oh, like I probably am just like low blood sugar and then I drink like whatever, two cups of orange juice and then I did the whole thing in one shot. I didn't even think about it. So it's just, it's just little things like that and ultimately like you're gonna have to experiment and try things for yourself and see, but yeah, no, the OJ now is kind of just like, oh, if I feel like low brain energy essentially I go to the OJ and it always helps so.
Brian (1h 16m 40s):
Got it. Got it. Well Dalton Jack, this was great. Best place to find you guys. Where is that on the YouTube channel would you say?
Jack (1h 16m 50s):
Yeah, either YouTube or Twitter. Thank you for having us. Just really appreciate the opportunity. I think the conversation was great, but as far as where to find us, yeah we have like, we have like a a link, like it's like a link tree, like a link bio if you wanna just like put that somewhere. That's probably the easiest cuz that has everything we have. We have the channel, the Twitter, we have an Instagram, we're trying to grow a little bit, trying to put a little more effort into that. We also have like some sensored stuff on Rumble and we're thinking about doing a little more of a rumble thing. Never know, just that's kind of an idea.
Jack (1h 17m 30s):
So Okay, keep, keep an eye on that. And then we also have our affiliate links for some really high quality supplements in that Link bio thing as well.
Dalton (1h 17m 42s):
Yeah, there's that. And then we also offer like some consultations via Patreon and that's all again in that Linked Up bio. So yeah, anything a and o related is gonna be there for sure. So yeah, be sure to check that out if you guys got anything useful from this.
Brian (1h 18m 1s):
All right, analyze and optimize, check 'em out. And if you wanna learn more about some of their stuff, some of the topics we talked about, like the sugar one that you mentioned that we talked, it's a good video that you did about what, 10 months ago it looks like. So thanks guys for coming on. I appreciate it.
Jack (1h 18m 17s):
Thank
Dalton (1h 18m 18s):
You man. Hey, thanks. Thanks man. Appreciate a lot.
Brian (1h 18m 22s):
Thanks for listening to the Get Lean e Unclean podcast. I understand there are millions of other podcasts out there and you've chosen to listen to mine and I appreciate that. Check out the show notes@briangrin.com for everything that was mentioned in this episode. Feel free to subscribe to the podcast and share it with a friend or family member that's looking to get their body back to what it once was. Thanks again and have a great day.
