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episode #296

Interview with Analyze and Optimize: Problems with Restrictive Diets, Increase Your Metabolism and Is Sugar to Blame?

October 16, 2023 in Podcast


This week I interviewed Dalton from Analyze and Optimize!

Dalton and Jack research and explore health from the bioenergetic viewpoint originated from Dr. Ray Peat. In this episode, we discuss some of the issues with birth control, along with:

  • Bioenergetic Viewpoint of Metabolic Health
  • Is Sugar to Blame for Obesity?
  • The Problem with Restrictive Diets
  • Dalton's Metabolic Boosting Foods
and much much more!

Brian (0s):

Coming up on the GET, LEAN, Eat, Clean, Podcast.

Dalton (4s):

You know, a lot of the people that I work with or that, you know, watch our stuff, have already been through the ringer with all these different Restrictive, Diets probably started cutting calories. Maybe they did like a plant-based thing. Maybe they did fasting. Maybe they did low carb. you know, these are all just different forms of restriction, whether you're restricting calories, carbs, or, or anything else. you know, a lot of stuff can just put a toll on the body, and it's not really a good long-term solution because you're not ending up fixing the key problems of why you are Fat in the first place. you know, like no one like is Fat because they weren't on the carnivore diet.

Dalton (46s):

you know, like there's probably some other underlying reasons that that exist there.

Brian (54s):

Hello, and welcome to the Get Lean, Eat Clean podcast, m Brian, Gryn and I here to give you actionable tips to get your body back to what it once was, five, 10, even 15 years ago. Each week I'll give you an in depth interview with a health expert from around the world to cut through the fluff and get you long term sustainable results. This week I interviewed Dalton from Analyze and Optimize, Dalton and Jack research and explore health from the bioenergetic viewpoint. originated from Dr, Ray P. we discuss some of the issues with birth control, along with the Bioenergetic Viewpoint of Metabolic Health Is Sugar to Blame for Obesity, The Problem with Restrictive, Diets, Dalton's, metabolic Boosting foods, and much, much more.

Brian (1m 37s):

Really enjoyed my interview with Dalton. This was the second time he's been on the podcast. Thanks again for listening and enjoy the interview All, right Welcome to the Get Lean Eat Clean podcast. My name is Brian Gryn and I have Dalton on Welcome to the show.

Dalton (1m 53s):

Hey, thanks for having me, man. We did this once last year, and it was, it was awesome. So. we both, we both put out a good amount of content in, in between, so I'm excited to, to keep this going, man. So thanks for having me.

Brian (2m 6s):

Yeah, Dalton is, you're missing your sidekick Jack with Analyze and Optimize. He had something that come, came up, but we're gonna hit a lot of great topics today. So I know you're in Florida. Maybe give us a little brief synopsis of what you're up to now and, and Analyze and Optimize and sort of the, the goals with, with that company.

Dalton (2m 29s):

Yeah. So as far as, as far as a and o goes, you know, we, we did, we had a pretty good stretch of growth over the summer, mainly through Twitter, but also some of our videos really picked up on YouTube So. we essentially doubled our following in the past year or so, and that's been super exciting. And I guess now would be a good time to, to sort of introduce this, but we're also working on, we basically have set up a, a consultation service where we have a number of healthcare practitioners on staff. And we're, you know, there's, there's been a lot of demand from people who, who follow us and, and watch our videos, especially as it pertains to, to gut issues.

Dalton (3m 11s):

People are asking for like, a lot of specific help. So, you know, I've been offering, you know, messaging consults through Patreon for, for a while now. But, you know, my time's a bit limited in that it's a pretty cheap service. But with this new consultation service called Prism, we have a number of different healthcare practitioners on board, and everyone kind of is on the same page about bioenergetics energy and structure and how we view the body as a system. So it's gonna be really exciting. It's very comprehensive and it's, it'll be a nice alternative for people who, who want specific help, who, you know, maybe have tried different things, have gone to different GI docs or whatever the case may be.

Dalton (3m 57s):

It'll be really good for those people who are, who kind of, who are bought into the, the ideas of bioenergetics, but, you know, maybe need some personal help incorporating a lot of these ideas or, or understanding where to go next. So that's, that's very exciting for us and, and we should have that up and running by the end of 2023. So that's, that's, that's the big thing for us. And then, yeah, we started doing the, the solo streams, you know, just face cam videos because while we love the documentary style videos, they, they are quite a, quite a bit of a production. So it's been good to, to, you know, just do face cam videos and, and come in with my notes and my thoughts and kind of express it and, and people have really seem to like those.

Dalton (4m 42s):

In addition to the documentary style videos, So we did, we just released one on, on birth control is like an hour and 20 minutes long. That was about a month ago now. So, yeah, so lots of, lots of fun stuff that we've done over the past year and you know, it's just the beginning So, we got a, we got a lot more places to go.

Brian (5m 3s):

Yeah, no, I love, I love the content your, your YouTube videos getting lots of views, so that's always good. And why don't we jump into the one we'll hit on the, the last two ones you did. Maybe we'll touch a little bit on the birth control one. I would imagine a lot of the audiences are male, but I think it's important even, you know, even if you're male to understand this, 'cause you might have a, you know, a significant other that is been on birth control for most of their lives. What, what was one, some, some of the things you learned from doing that video?

Dalton (5m 36s):

The, the birth control? Yeah. Well it was, it was a number of different things. I think the, the biggest thing is how confusing the literature becomes when you're talking about progesterone versus synthetic progestins. So the elevator pitch is basically that progesterone is the hormone that really helps support pregnancy. Obviously you have estrogen as well, which is very important for growth, but progesterone is literally named as such as the progestational hormone. And when the levels of progesterone are elevated, then you obviously can't get pregnant again because the body understands that it's already pregnant.

Dalton (6m 19s):

So it had been known pretty much like up to a century ago that administering enough exogenous progesterone could inhibit ovulation and would prevent pregnancy. But bioidentical progesterone is this like broad acting, anti-stress sort of protective hormone that declines in aging and in menopause. So it was, it, it was, it, it seemed like it would be a perfect place to go. However, the pharmaceutical companies sort of came in and, you know, you can't really patent a bioidentical hormone. And there were some issues with like bioavailability, et cetera, So, they, they basically made synthetic analogs of progesterone called the synthetic progestins.

Dalton (7m 10s):

And they are completely different in terms of their actions, mainly because they don't metabolize into a number of the important bioactive steroids that bioidentical progesterone does. But also because they tend to inhibit your body's endogenous product production of progesterone because your body kind of thinks that it's already getting enough progesterone. So you have this negative feedback loop that goes on. So you're kind of getting a double whammy there. And what's, what's very frustrating is reading through a lot of the research, you know, even people in the field will use the terms progesterone and progestin interchangeably.

Dalton (7m 53s):

And that causes a lot of problems because, you know, then you have women thinking that progesterone is bad or that's an, that's the synthetic progestins are the same thing as taking progesterone or having high levels of progesterone. And then it becomes this whole complicated mess. So, you know, it took me a while to, to really read through it enough to understand that, oh my God, pretty much every time that they're reporting cancer or they're reporting heart disease, they're reporting endometrial problems, it's always with the synthetic progestins. And that's, you know, because you can't really replace your bioidentical progesterone 'cause because it has all those critical functions.

Dalton (8m 34s):

So that was a, that was a really big thing. And then also just kind of breaking open the whole estrogen thing. So oftentimes you hear that estrogen is protected for the heart or it's really protective for your bones, or it's like very feminizing or whatever the case may be. But it's, it's interesting because, you know, again, it's one of these things where in the early 20th century it was pretty well understood that estrogen was really like a growth and proliferation hormone. Obviously they knew that it had a role in the menstrual cycle and a role in reproduction, but in, in terms of its role in nature, it was known to play a big role in cancer.

Dalton (9m 18s):

And it would also, you know, you, you talk about phytoestrogens, these are some of these plant defense chemicals that are literally used to discourage herbivores from eating them because it makes them infertile. And then it was interesting to see how the entire dynamic got shift or the narrative got shift around around estrogen. And that was in large part because we had a bunch of in industry coming in and making synthetic estrogens. you know, you hear about these now xenoestrogens or endocrine disruptors, and because they were sort of introduced at the same time that they were developing birth control, essentially what happened was that they started to, you know, paint estrogen in a more positive light and it ended up costing, you know, lots of, lots of lives because of the toxicity induced by administering these exogenous estrogens.

Dalton (10m 21s):

And then, you know, things like d e s and, and d D T, you know, we're still kind of dealing with the consequences of those today, these, these persistent endocrine disruptors that are ultimately estrogenic in nature. But that I don't think was a coincidence that all those things kind of happened in unison. What made you, and then, you know, oh, okay, go ahead. Sorry,

Brian (10m 42s):

Go ahead. No, say you could finish. Yep, go.

Dalton (10m 46s):

Yeah, I was, yeah, I was just gonna say that, you know, you had all of that happening throughout the mid 20th century, and then they really started to test a lot of these things in clinical trials, and it all culminated with this huge study, the women's health initiative, where they were administering progestin and estrogen comparing it to control. And they literally had to cut the study short in a lot of these cases because it, it was like very obvious that whether you were taking only estrogen or estrogen plus progestin, you know, you were having increases in stroke, heart attack, breast cancer, even cognitive decline, things like dementia.

Dalton (11m 31s):

So it, it, it's pretty astonishing that a lot of these, you know, narratives still exist about these things. One, you know, we're never really gonna get better evidence than that, that, you know, these, these things are not good. These things are, these things are harmful. you know, it was tested thousands of women multiple years and they had to end the trials early because of the harms that were happening. But yeah, I mean, a lot of these narratives still still persist to this day, even though after that trial concluded there was some backlash, but then it, it seemed to, they seemed to make a comeback thereafter.

Brian (12m 12s):

So what made you want to sort of go down the rabbit hole of, of birth control and, and perhaps the, you know, the consequences or the effects of it?

Dalton (12m 24s):

Well, you know, we are, we're really interested in figuring out different, just sort of like environmental factors that, that can cause illness because, you know, I guess the mainstream medical narrative is really that a lot of it's genetic or, you know, you can just take something to sort of mitigate the symptoms of whatever you're dealing with. But the causes are always unknown or like they need more research or, or whatever the case may be. But, you know, we kind of come at things from the angle of, you know, the, the baseline human experience should be one that is full of life and happiness and euphoria and good health And, you know, if you're not at that level, then something in the environment is causing that.

Dalton (13m 10s):

So I don't know exactly why we wanted to do birth control specifically. We just have like a, we have like a very long list of, you know, whether it's mold or whether it's heavy metals or whether it's, you know, endocrine disruptors or whether it's any number of these drugs that, you know, so many people are taking that can contribute to these things. You know, we're trying to look at it from all angles and, and sort of decipher, you know, what is, what is contributing to these things. But I think birth control is a big one because it is so like normalized in the sense that, you know, if if you, you know, if you're around my age and you went to college recently, like it would probably be hard to find a, a girl who is not on birth control and then, you know, it, it's really unfortunate because it gets very normalized and then, you know, you obviously have like hookup culture and all this stuff going on and then, but the girls like really do suffer a lot of these consequences and it doesn't get talked about and, and they don't even realize that it might be a result of that because, you know, a lot of the, the girls that I've spoken with about this, like they don't really get a good rundown from their doctor about what the actual consequences are.

Dalton (14m 30s):

Like what, what are the potential risks? What has this been linked to in the past? How does this work? And, and yeah. And I, I think it, I think it because it's so widely used and it's not really talked about in that sense, you know, like people talk about the diet, like what, what's the best diet? That kind of thing. But for something like that, that's really interesting to me, something that is like pretty ubiquitous in the environment that people don't even really think about But. it could in fact be contributing to a lot of these conditions.

Brian (15m 5s):

Yeah. And I'll put a link to the show notes if people really want to dive into that, that video that you did, and it's like an about an hour long. He also recently did one title, the New Paradigm of Weight Loss and a lot of different topics you went into regarding sort of your thoughts around, you know, what, what, you know, what would be solutions for for weight loss or, and things that maybe might not work for a lot of people. Was there certain things, I mean, we can hit on a lot of 'em, but were there certain things that, you know, sort of, I don't know, maybe you that drew to you, you to, to do this video? I know you're part of the pro metabolic viewpoint, which I've had Jay Felman on and Georgie Dink Koff and Danny Roddy.

Brian (15m 52s):

So I've had quite a bit of the pro metabolic, and I know there's a rhetoric out there about, you know, cutting calories and, and just lifting weight or cutting calories and exercise should do the job and doesn't necessarily, you know, explain the entire picture.

Dalton (16m 10s):

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I think that there were a number of reasons. I think it was probably because, you know, I'd been talking about eating sugar and eating saturated Fat and like not restricting your calories, And, you know, even eating more is a, is a good way to raise your Metabolism. And that everyone, you know, the, the, the pushback that I often hear is, oh, well yeah, I mean maybe it make me feel good, but I'm just gonna get Fat like, or everyone who, who does the bioenergetic thing, they're all Fat. Which is an interesting critique because

Brian (16m 44s):

Yeah, because

Dalton (16m 45s):

I don't think Ray was overweight. Danny was not overweight Jay, like, Jay's not overweight, I'm not overweight. Jackson's not like, you can just go down the line. There's, but there is this narrative that, you know, sugar makes you Fat and that, you know, you, you don't want to be eating more, whatever the case may be. It,

Brian (17m 8s):

It can definitely be confusing for the average person out there that, I mean, I'm, I, you know, having a podcast and having different viewpoints on, I'm sure one week I had, gosh, names are all but like, trying to think of his name. I can't think of his name, but he, we talked about omega threes and how, you know, how important they are. And then another week, you know, we got, you know, Jay saying not a big fan of omega threes. So there's, yeah, there's definitely a, can be a confusing rhetoric out there.

Dalton (17m 44s):

Yeah, yeah. I mean it's good that, you know, you have platforms like, like this where, you know, you can get differing opinions on these things for sure. But, but yeah, I mean, you know, I, I think the, the sugar causing insulin Resistance or sugar making you Fat, that is, that is very pervasive and I thought it was pretty important for people to understand really the, the main point that I was getting at is that there's a difference between going on a diet and losing weight or going on a regimen that is strictly, you know, put forth in order to lose weight versus someone who is Lean without having to think about it or like just, you know, basically eating intuitively and, and being naturally Lean.

Dalton (18m 37s):

you know, there's a difference between those two states. And it's just unfortunate because I, you know, a lot of other people that I work with or that, you know, watch our stuff have already been through the ringer with all these different Restrictive, Diets probably started cutting calories. Maybe they did like a plant-based thing. Maybe they did fasting, maybe they did low carb. you know, these are all just different forms of restriction, whether you're restricting calories, carbs or, or anything else. you know, a lot of stuff can just put a toll on the body and it's not really a good long-term solution because you're not ending up fixing the key problems of why you are Fat in the first place.

Dalton (19m 18s):

you know, like no one, like is Fat because they weren't on the carnivore diet. you know, like there's probably some other underlying reasons that, that exist there. And then there's, you know, there's just people, you know, who I see in my life and And, you know, it, it's, I think it's a pretty damaging sort of narrative to them because if you've been struggling with your weight for years, if not decades, and you're sitting there like, I, I don't know how I can eat less. Like I'm really not eating that much. I, but I just feel like anytime I do eat, like I just blow up, like I just gained weight. Like I don't understand why this is, and then, you know, you just get the, the classic response of like, oh, we just need to restrict more.

Dalton (20m 4s):

You just need more discipline. You just need to cut your food down more. You just need to exercise more. And that ultimately is, is just gonna make things worse. And I also think it's important for people to understand that, you know, your obesity or your being overweight is just, you can't really isolate that from your other health problems. And I think that's very important for people to understand because the, the calories in, calories out mantra, while it is like technically true, it, it's not super helpful when you're trying to practically apply these things because then the take home message for most people is like, oh, well if I wanna lose weight, I have to do this.

Dalton (20m 47s):

But then if I wanna solve my other health problems, then I have to do something different. When in reality, what we're trying to do is, you know, improve your health holistically in the sense that if you, if your digestion is smooth, if your energy levels are good, if your stress is low, if you're fulfilled with your life, if you're satisfied after your meals, you know, if you have good libido, all of these things are what I would consider to be signs of health. And you should be able to have all of that and enjoy your Foodsand, not have to think about things, you know, in terms of restricting yourself. And you should be able to have a Lean body composition on top of that. That is the ultimate healthy organism from my view.

Dalton (21m 30s):

Not, you know, being very Lean, but having to, you know, sacrifice libido or sacrifice digestion or, you know, have lower energy or worse sleep and doing that through forceful restriction because a lot of people, you know, you'll end up running into problems because the body always wins in the end, you know, your body knows how much of certain nutrients and needs and, and calories are in fact a nutrient. And that seems to be forgotten as well. But there's a reason why in the long run, most, the vast majority, I think it's like 95 plus percent of people that try different Diets like fail within five years.

Dalton (22m 14s):

And that's because it, it really is a short-term strategy, you know, going on a, on like a cutting diet or whatever to lose Fat. It's not really like solving your long-term issue of why does your body have the propensity to put on more Fat?

Brian (22m 32s):

Where would you say a good place for someone to start, you know, because I think a lot of times people do start with the sort of Restrictive mindset, right? Like, okay, I need to cut this out, or I need to cut that out. Obviously exercise has its benefits, but you know, we all know that losing weight, you know, exercise is such a small piece of that I would say, right? Like you want to obviously have a, you know, if you talk about good Metabolism, you know, building muscle obviously is I think important being it's like a glucose sink, but you know, that's a sort of one piece of the puzzle. But a lot of times people start with sort of this Restrictive mindset, and I've done it myself.

Brian (23m 14s):

I mean, I've been through fasting and to this day I still do, I would say, I wouldn't say I fast as much. I probably eaten more since I've talked with, with all you guys. And the interesting is when I started to eat more initially I put on weight, but then it, that came back to my initial, my, my baseline. So I've, I've actually, you know, just to say I've added 700 calories, but you know, let's say I was at 1, 1 75 and then I might have gone to 180, but now I'm back to about 1 73, 1 74 with eating that additional amount, which is a good thing. So I know that doesn't happen with everyone, that's just my case. But where would you say a good place for someone to start if they're thinking, well, okay, I don't need to cut out sugar, I don't need to cut necessarily how much I'm eating throughout the day.

Brian (23m 60s):

What, where should they start?

Dalton (24m 2s):

Well, I think you'd be surprised, you know, your experience of of saying, okay, I'm, I'm not gonna try to restrict, or I'm gonna try to eat more based on my cravings and then gaining some weight in the short term and then losing it thereafter once the body adjusts. That's actually, that's actually pretty common. So it, in my case, you know, I basically had been chronically dieting, fasting and whatnot for two or three years. So then when I started, you know, incorporating more sugars and things into my diet, yeah, I, I gained way more than you did actually. I gained, I gained like, I gained like 20 or 30 pounds.

Dalton (24m 42s):

And that's the

Brian (24m 44s):

Thing is, yeah, okay, so, and you're not like the biggest guy. I mean, you're not, you know, so that's a decent amount, percentage wise.

Dalton (24m 51s):

Yeah, I mean it was, it was substantial. But the thing is that, first of all, I've, I've lost, you know, the vast majority of that. I'm still like a little bit over where I started from, but I honestly think it's a good thing 'cause I was probably too Lean. Yeah. But, but yeah, I think that is a good place to start in the sense that as much as we talk about health problems that are caused by, you know, having too much weight or being insulin resistant in things, there's an equal amount of risk in the opposite, which is, you know, forcefully restricting yourself and, and being chronically sort of under fed.

Dalton (25m 32s):

There's a host of health problems that are, that are associated with that as well. So it's, it's actually pretty common for people to start putting on weight. And then, you know, as we continue to improve other aspects of their health, then over time you might need to eat less or you might, your, your metabolic rate will probably compensate for the amount that you're eating. So, you know, in my case, I was very Lean and I started to gain weight when I was eating, you know, more sugars and, and And, you know, just not restricting myself, generally not skipping meals and things. I did start to gain weight, but my stress was noticeably lower, you know, I was able to sleep better, you know, my sexual function started to, to get better, my digestion started to improve, my mood was better, I wasn't like as irritable and things.

Dalton (26m 20s):

And those are all important to consider because yeah, you might need a period signaling abundance to your body, which is really, which is really the, the sort of overarching game here is that you, you want to signal to your body that, you know, this is a time of abundance, even if it's in a state of scarcity to start where it's slowing the metabolic rate and it's turning on the processes that allow it to store more Fat because it's perceiving that there is a scarcity in the environment. You might need to give that signal of abundance and it might take a little while for the body to sort of get out of that state in order for you to get to where you want to be, which is, you know, eventually getting back to your body composition, but maintaining the benefits of having the extra food, of having the higher metabolic rate.

Dalton (27m 15s):

So that is typically what I tell people, you know, I have, I have people that come to me and say, this is what I'm doing, this is what I'm eating, you know, I wanna lose 30 pounds. And I'm like, okay, this is not what you want to hear, but let's not focus on the weight loss to start. Let's focus on how your health is otherwise. And then, you know,

Brian (27m 39s):

I was just gonna say, it's interesting that you, you bring it up and you come from that viewpoint because I think we're like society, it's like we look at someone and you just make a blanket statement thinking, well, if they're you know, overweight, then they might must not be healthy. Which is, I mean, obviously weight And, you know, how how you carry it is one aspect of health, but obviously like you're talking about, there are other, there's other things that you should be looking at, such as like stress, libido, even like your skin or your hair, you know, hormonal balance, things like that. Well-functioning gut that are just as important as just that sort of, I guess how you look from the outside as far as weight is concerned.

Dalton (28m 26s):

Yeah, absolutely. And, and again, that's because there's a difference between being forcefully Lean and being naturally Lean, And, you know, if you're the type of person that needs to forcefully make themselves Lean through all this restriction, you know, there's probably a reason why your body is trying to maintain you in the state of having more Fat on your body. you know, it, it doesn't just do that, you know, nonsensically, there's, there's typically a reason for that.

Brian (28m 55s):

So what, what would you, what would you say, I'm sorry to keep, but what would you say to someone, you were, you were talking about, let's say individual's 20 maybe, that he's, maybe someone comes either 65, you know, you're, you know, you're in your twenties, right? I mean, you can get away with stuff in your twenties that you can't get away with when you're in your fifties or sixties. And so this individual's got visceral Fat, you know, it's probably got 20, you know, let's just say 20 pounds, 25 pounds overweight. So most of that ferment for males is in the, in the come, comes in the gut. What, what you were, I think you were going down that road before, but what would, what would you say to that individual, you know, who maybe hasn't been restricting at all throughout his entire life?

Brian (29m 37s):

Okay. 'cause I think that's, that this could be the majority of, of individuals.

Dalton (29m 43s):

Yeah. So I think in that case, again, it's, it's important to look sort of, sort of holistically at what other symptoms they may have. But in general, you know, the, the main dietary things that I, that I think are, are very important. And I think is, it's pretty clear, especially from the animal studies, but also from human studies, looking at what is the optimal, like metabolic Boosting diet. It would be something that's pretty moderate in protein, low to moderate in Fat with the vast majority of that being saturated if possible, or at least not polyunsaturated, you know, trying to restrict that as much as possible while having the higher amount.

Dalton (30m 25s):

Basically you want the Fat to be more saturated than than anything. And then the rest, like the, the vast majority of the actual energy should be coming from simple sugars. And there's, there's a number of reasons for that, but I, I think particularly sugar as in sucrose as in glucose plus fructose, it seems to be the best in terms of bolstering the overall metabolic rate. So if you have visceral Fat there, there seems to be a number of different factors there. But you can definitely get there by, you know, overdoing the polyunsaturated Fat.

Dalton (31m 7s):

And then, you know, for, for things like, you know, liver Fat accumulation, you know, you might often hear that, oh, sugar causes fatty liver or like it's more lipo, but some of the main controllers of that are hormonal. So if you have chronically elevated cortisol, that'll actually increase your propensity to convert sugar into Fat rather than oxidizing it. And it's the same thing with chronic inflammation. So one of the key characteristics in alcoholic fatty liver disease is that they have, you know, systemic inflammation and these people have a greater propensity to turn sugar into Fat because of that elevated inflammation, whereas a healthy individual, they would need to consume massive quantities of sugar to end up converting into Fat.

Dalton (31m 59s):

So those are some key things to look at. And a lot of that inflammation is of course driven by the polyunsaturated fats. So those would be the big dietary things. I think, you know, looking at different symptoms, gut, I, I keep bringing up gut and digestion because it's very important mainly as a chronic source of inflammation systemically, but also as a chronic source of elevated serotonin and serotonin being this sort of ubiquitously elevated controller of Metabolism, not only in the brain, but really systemically. And in fact, I think big pharma is trying to develop some inhibitors of serotonin synthesis peripherally as treatment for obesity and diabetes and thing.

Dalton (32m 47s):

And that's because serotonin represents this big break on the Metabolism if it's elevated in excess. So most of your sss, the vast majority of your serotonin is produced in the gut, and that's in response to irritation, inflammation and excess bacteria load in the gut. So, you know, a lot of these things can be difficult to even get ahold of until you get the GI function normalized. And that's what one of the reasons why I, I'm I, I, I'm really not a fan of these new semaglutide and things like that. So I think it's ozempic and I forgot the, like wago v the other, the other names loss, but yeah, yeah.

Dalton (33m 33s):

So, so these, these drugs, they do work for weight loss in the short run, but they do that by suppressing your appetite and they ultimately elevate the amount of serotonins in your gut. So the gi side effects of these drugs are like off the charts. I think there was one study that showed that basically almost 50% of people that took it developed either diarrhea or chronic just abdominal pain or nausea or something to go with it. And, and that's just like, I think that's a good sort of microcosm of how we are looking at this situation that like, oh, well if I lose weight, it's okay to completely nuke my gut function in the process.

Dalton (34m 18s):

That'll, that's like considered a net win for your health. But in my opinion, nothing could be further from the truth. So tangent aside on that, that that would be, that would be a, a big place to start. And then, you know, getting some blood work can definitely be helpful. So for someone you know, who's, who's older and may have, you know, put on some weight over the years, especially if you're a male, looking at the androgen status is, is very important. So looking at testosterone free testosterone, sex hormone binding globulin, prolactin is a really good marker of not only excess serotonin, but also excess estrogen. And then also looking into, into D H T as well, some people could benefit from replacing those hormones.

Dalton (35m 5s):

And speaking of replacing the hormones, another good thing to look at is obviously thyroid hormone, because that's a, that's a big controller of the metabolic rate and you know, historically we would've been eating more actual thyroid gland because we used to consume the whole animal. So I, I, I don't want people to, to think that it's like, oh, so you're just telling us to like hop on all these like synthetic hormones instead, it was, it's actually more unnatural for us to not eat thyroid gland and to not consume those hormones because, you know, again, historically we would eat the whole animal that includes the thyroid gland. So those are some big places to start. I normally always start in the gut because it seems like nowadays everybody has something going on there, and that is typically a huge break on the Metabolism and it just makes everything so much harder to deal with from there.

Dalton (35m 57s):

But I think, you know, if that is, is pretty much in check, we'll say, let's say the gut function is, is is pretty good. I think thyroid, androgens and estrogen are, are another good place to start in addition to the dietary stuff. And in general, just chronically elevated cortisol is a big one because in the short term cortisol is, you know, it's a stress hormone, so it acts to like raise your energy expenditure and it liberates like a lot of Fat from the tissues then. But in the long run, cortisol actually sort of does the opposite and it kind of increases your propensity to store more Fat because it turns on specific enzymes that are involved in the Fat making and Fat storing process, you know, again, in the, in the long run.

Dalton (36m 50s):

So, so those are some good places to start. And then just in general nutrition, you know, making sure to get, especially the B vitamins, a lot of people that I work with, you know, benefit a lot from like a B complex and that's because these vitamins are so critical to the proper oxidation of glucose, which seems to be the thing that is ubiquitously impaired in obesity and in insulin Resistance. So making sure that you're, that you're covered on the B vitamins is really critical to ensure that you can properly metabolize the glucose And, you know, once you can do that, everything else kind of falls into place.

Dalton (37m 33s):

But yeah, I think, I think those would be the big places to start. Obviously, you know, there's, it's not gonna work for everyone because everyone's in a different situation, right? But there's always things to look for, you know, I don't think it's ever the case where someone is just like screwed. you know, there's always something in the environment that you can, that you can Analyze and, and look at and, and And, you know, manipulate to your advantage. Yeah,

Brian (38m 4s):

I mean I think in an ideal world, if you could somehow, you know, maximize your energy, like, you know, you talked about the pro metabolic state is more than just about weight loss, right? It's about, you know, maximizing your mitochondrial energy and, and your vitality and, you know, ways to do this. It's like our, to some people who just, if you look at the mainstream rhetoric, it's like the opposite of what you've been told, right? You talk about sugar, right? Sugar's been linked to so many things, just, you know, disease in general. And then when you hear your viewpoint viewpoint, you can understand why there's pushback from people who have been hearing the same thing.

Brian (38m 46s):

It's like the same thing like with saturated fats, right? They've been demonized for years. I'm, I'm sure you've, you've done videos on that before.

Dalton (38m 54s):

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, and, and it's, and it's funny because there's always, there's always some truth to it. So you know, like sure we were, I was just talking about how, you know, if you do have elevated cortisol and you do have chronic inflammation, then eating the sugar can, you know, be more readily converted into Fat. So if you're testing people that are already unhealthy and you give them sugar and then you see an increase in, in visceral Fat or liver Fat, you know, it's not exactly surprising. But then, you know, is the Blame to be put on the sugar itself when it's doing, you know, other things that are helpful. I don't, I don't particularly think so.

Dalton (39m 35s):

And then another interesting just sort of comment on that is that, you know, a lot of the animal studies that are done, you know, talking about fructose are actually done with isolated fructose, right? And not, you know, fructose that you get like in fruit, which has, you know, obviously a lot of other components from the fruit But, it also has glucose or even table sugar, which is just glucose and fructose together. And isolated fructose tends to behave a lot differently than if it's co-administered with glucose or it's in the sucrose form. So for example, that can, it's very poorly absorbed when it's in the isolated form and then that can cause a bunch of gut problems because it ends up fermenting causing gas and, and diarrhea and things and bacterial overgrowths.

Dalton (40m 23s):

And then of course that is gonna result in systemic inflammation and all these problems that we've been talking about. So, so yeah, I mean, I've heard a number of these arguments and there's always like a, a bit of truth, like none of them, well, some of 'em are like just completely made up, but, you know, there's always, there's always a, at least a reason why the narrative exists. But that's why, that's why I find it very fascinating is because, you know, once you actually start to, to pick these things apart, you know, you can end up with a, with a much different picture of what's going on.

Brian (41m 0s):

Yeah. And there, and there's a ton, you know, you talk about like studies done, but like these are epidemiology studies where, you know, it's associations in groups of people and they try to infer a cause. So excuse me, instead of like, you know, I'm sure there are some, but like most of the studies that are demonizing sugar are like, are based on like observational sort of cohorts. And so I guess I think with the studies, you gotta gotta sort of see, you gotta take it with a grain of salt and, and, and make sure that it's, like you said, some of these studies are just showing like just fructose, but like if you have a piece of fruit, like an orange that's glucose and fructose, that's like almost 50 50.

Dalton (41m 50s):

Yeah. Yeah. And then, and then the other thing is, you know, I like to, are you into sports at all?

Brian (41m 57s):


Dalton (41m 59s):

So I like to, I like to liken this like reading studies, And, you know, experiencing real life. I like to, I like to liken that to like reading stats in sports and then like actually watching the game. So you know, like if you're only reading the stats or like you're only reading the studies and you're kind of just trying to base everything off of that, you're only gonna get a part of the picture. you know, you still need to go out and actually try these things And, you know, see what other people are doing and, and see how it all fits together because it should all make sense in the end. And it's the same thing like in sports, how you can't just look at the stat sheet, you need to actually watch the game, ideally play the game and, and get a better understanding of, oh, that's why that stat is this way. That makes more sense.

Dalton (42m 39s):

But yeah, I try not to be like dismissive per se of, of any of that type of evidence. you know, epidemiology is not something that like I personally use because of the reasons that you sort of pointed out. I mean, it, it, I, I, I think it can have use, but you know, when when someone comes to me and they tell me I did this and this happened, you know, I don't just look at that and say like, oh, well it's just an anecdote, so it doesn't matter. Like, no, it, it happened, you know? And I think it's important to consider because at the end of the day, like if you're trying to affect individual people, you should try to, you know, understand how everything works and not try to dismiss anecdote or, or whatever the case may be, or only focus on studies like you said.

Dalton (43m 25s):


Brian (43m 28s):

Yeah, I mean you touched on a lot of great things, you know, so gut health obviously really important. What are some ways, I've talked to Jay about this. I mean he, you know, he talks about endotoxin load And. what are some ways people can, you know, sort of under, you know, gut could be sort of a confusing topic because it's like, well, how do I clean up my gut health, right? Like there, there's, there's so much on the market, these probiotics, prebiotics, where do people start? Where would you say people should start with that?

Dalton (44m 1s):

So I think it's important for people to understand like what the actual function of the different parts of the gut are. So your stomach is really there mainly to, you know, it, it's incredibly acidic and it, it breaks down most of the protein and it also serves to kill a lot of the bacteria that might be in the food. So those are the two main functions of the stomach is to break down protein. It does some absorption, But, it does a lot of sterilization, the small intestine and the, and the colon, the large intestine, they do have some like antimicrobial properties, but the small intestine is mainly for digestive enzymes and absorption.

Dalton (44m 50s):

So the colon then basically takes whatever hasn't been absorbed or broken down or whatever the case may be. And that's where the vast majority of the bacteria are. And anything that is not absorbed in the upper part of the GI tract reaches to the, reaches the colon And, you know, it either gets excreted in whole or more likely gets fermented by the bacteria that are there. So in terms of, you know, the way that I look at these things is, you know, based on my experience and And, you know, people that I've worked with, And, you know, obviously literature as well, the primary driver of a lot of these chronic digestive issues is excess serotonin in the gut.

Dalton (45m 36s):

And that excess serotonin is mainly driven by excess bacteria and mechanical irritation. So indigestible either fibers or just different components of the food that aren't getting absorbed up higher. So I think that a good way of looking at it is that, you know, you really want to try to Optimize what is going on in the upper GI tract so that you're breaking down and absorbing as much of the food as possible because you really wanna leave as little as possible to be fermented in the colon. Stuff is always gonna reach there, you know, you're never gonna have like a completely sterile gut or, or colon and you honestly wouldn't want that anyway.

Dalton (46m 17s):

But in terms of, you know, practically, I think most people are dealing with bacterial overgrowths or they could be dealing with fungal overgrowths or whatever the case may be. But in terms of making the upper GI tract more robust, increasing the amount of stomach acid can be huge. Things like thiamine or vitamin B one can be very critical for that because increasing the amount of carbon dioxide services a precursor to stomach acid in a weird mechanism. But that's really critical. And then as far as the small intestine is concerned, it's funny, actually eating sugar does increase the amount of absorption that goes on in the small intestine.

Dalton (47m 1s):

And then you also have the digestive enzymes that are made by the pancreas secreted into the small intestine And, you know, you want those, you know, basically firing on all cylinders as well. The pancreas mainly consumes glucose for its Metabolism and that's very important to focus on. Another interesting thing there is that again, a lot of the B vitamins can increase the amount of digestive enzymes that you're producing in the pancreas, again, because they're so important for glucose Metabolism and the pancreas needs that energy in order to secrete the enzymes or make the enzymes rather.

Dalton (47m 42s):

So yeah, really focusing on those things and then increasing the motility through the GI tract is gonna be critical because, you know, one of the most important hallmarks of something like i b s is not only do you have an increased fecal load, so basically you make more, you know, stool and that's because you're fermenting more of your Foodsand, you're creating more bacteria from it and you're creating more waste because of that. But you also, even in diarrhea, you have dysmotility, so you have a longer period of time that the food stays in your system and that just gives the bacteria more of a chance to, you know, take hold and and ferment.

Dalton (48m 27s):

So in terms of the diet, I think that you probably want to eat a diet that's as digestible as possible, meaning simple sugars, animal Proteins, whole saturated fats, those are all, you know, pretty easily digested and absorbed in the upper GI tract. Whereas things like intact starches and fiber And, you know, some of these other undercooked plant foods can, can have a number of components, you know, I mentioned the fiber that can be fermented or not absorbed in the upper GI tract.

Dalton (49m 7s):

And then that ultimately can just irritate the colon, produce more serotonin and more bacteria, and then the, the problem continues. So I think that that is a really good start. you know, a lot of people can benefit from direct antimicrobials, whether that's something like massive gum or something like, I'm blanking. Oh, like Fat soluble vitamins. Those have direct antimicrobial effects and those can be very useful and there's tons of other naturally occurring ones as well. Some people might,

Brian (49m 44s):

I was just gonna say, do you think like obviously that you have the whole like carnivore craze, do you think part of the reason why that helps some individuals because they're cutting out some of these fibers and these gut stressors from, you know, obviously just having purely meat diet?

Dalton (50m 1s):

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. you know, you see some incredible carnivore success stories where people are like basically putting their Crohn's or their IBDs into remission. And you know, the, I don't think that's really a coincidence because you know, if you're eating mostly meat, you are, you know, you're, you're, you're gonna be able to break down and absorb the vast majority of that in the upper GI tract, and then there's very little leftover in the colon and to irritate And, you know, foster the growth of more bacteria. So yeah, I think that is probably the main reason why a lot of people benefit from it. There's, there are a lot of good things about something like a carnivore diet.

Dalton (50m 43s):

I just think that it, it's lacking in, in a couple key places. So, you know, for instance, very, very common story that you know, happened to me, And, you know, has happened to a lot of people that I work with is they'll be sick and then they'll go on, you know, keto, fasting, carnivore, whatever the case may be, and then they'll feel really, really good for like six to 12 months and then, you know, shit will kind of hit the fan, the, you know, they'll start to develop some problems. And a lot of the times they end up developing bacterial overgrowths again. And it's almost kind of analogous to the ob the obesity issue because you didn't really solve the problem.

Dalton (51m 27s):

You were kind of just taking out foods that were exacerbating the problem, but if you had an existing digestive condition, you know, you didn't completely solve it just by, you know, eating the carnivore diet. It's more, I think you need to, you know, lower the amount of bacteria you need to increase the Metabolism overall so that you can have more digestion, more absorption, and more motility. And then in the long run, you know, you'll be, you'll be better off. But it's very common, you know, I've, I have plenty of people that have come to me because I, I posted this long thread on Twitter a couple months ago about serotonin in the gut and my experience, you know, being carnivore, fasting and then really developing one of these problems and then needing to add back in carbs, and then ultimately I need to take antibiotics in order to, to really get it under control.

Dalton (52m 22s):

And then I had a bunch of people, you know, commenting and, and messaging me saying like, thank you. Like this is exactly what happened to me. Like, things were going great for so long. And then I kind of crash And, you know, Now, I have bloating, Now, I, have gas Now, I have the coated tongue, all these different things. And you know, I, I guess I had to be like the sacrificial lamb to come out and, and make people aware of that But, it, it's, it's very common. But yeah, like you said at, at first, people can benefit from not having the irritating fibers, the undercooked starches, the undercooked vegetables, nuts, beans, things like that.

Dalton (53m 4s):

And a bunch of, you know, things like food colorings, things like different emulsifiers that are added to different packaged foods or even packaging itself. I mean, there have been some studies that I posted on Twitter basically were showing that there were parabens and there were, it wasn't b p a, but there were different, like basically we were talking about endocrine disruptors before, but these things actually make their way into a lot of different packaged foods because if it's, you know, wrapped in plastic or whatever the case may be, or, or even canned, you can get a good amount of that ends up in the Foodsand that can irritate the gut as well.

Dalton (53m 45s):

So, but yeah, when you're, when you're carnivore, you, you eliminate a lot of those things and, and yeah, it can, it can make you feel awesome for a while. But then ultimately I just think that the, the lack of carbohydrate, it's probably just a chronic stressor on the system to the point where it's kind of suppressing the immune system. And the immune system really needs to be, you know, firing in all cylinders in order to, to keep this in check. And if you're not supporting the Metabolism, you know, for the digestion, the absorption and the motility, then things are gonna be slow. You're not gonna be absorbing, you're not gonna be breaking down the food properly and then it's kind of just gonna be sitting there fermenting and that's gonna, you know, ultimately lead to a lot of these problems.

Brian (54m 37s):

Oh, lots of good stuff. Lots of good stuff. We're, where I was gonna go from here is let's just talk a little bit about like, sort of the overriding view of the pro metabolic space and, and if someone's never even touched that space, I know we've talked about some of it, where would they start and then, and you know, what would be like a good first step for that person maybe who's tried everything?

Dalton (55m 5s):

Yeah, you know, so I, I would love for people to read Ray's articles, so just Ray pete.com, he, that's, that's a really good place for a lot of people to start. It might be a a bit too technical, unfortunately, you know, in, in today's sort of day and age, you, you kind of need to at least have a decent understanding of, of what's going on biochemically and physiologically, you know, it's not impossible to understand, you know, I think people can pick these things up. But really, I guess the elevator pitch is that the, the energy that you are capable of producing as an organism or really any system that exists is the, is what determines how complex it can be and how it can maintain its order.

Dalton (55m 56s):

And if we think of diseases as basically like a loss of structure, a loss of order, or a loss of proper functioning, you know, that ultimately leads to this idea that, you know, pretty much any disease is, is a result of the organism not being able to provide sufficient amounts of energy. And you know, this, this really resonates with a lot of people who have been de dealing with health problems because, you know, it seems like everyone's tired and it's, it's, you know, it's, it's, it's kind of sad that it happens this way. But yeah, I mean one of the, one of the most common things that people experience is just like chronic fatigue.

Dalton (56m 36s):

Whether or not you have an official diagnosis for that is, is one thing. But you know, if you come at things from the angle of, you know, we're really gonna focus on your energy. Like that's, that is our primary objective is to increase your Metabolism and to increase the amount of energy that you're outputting so that you can live the life that you want. You can go out and, and talk to people and socialize. You want to start new projects, you want to, you know, go learn an instrument, you want to go play sports, do whatever it is that you like, you know, 'cause so many people are really in a situation where it's like, I do like those things, but I just don't have the bandwidth for, like, I don't have the energy for it.

Dalton (57m 17s):

So I think it resonates with a lot of people there. But that is ultimately the, the elevator pitch is that we're, we're trying to increase the rate of Metabolism with all of these weird things. you know, it might, it might, at first it might be like, so these people are telling me to eat sugar and then, but I'm supposed, supposed to eat carrots and then something about gelatin or aspirin. Like, but I promise if you, if if once you start looking into this stuff, the, the dots do connect because the, the primary break on energy production systemically in general, we characterize as stress.

Dalton (57m 58s):

And stress is something that everyone experiences obviously, but trying to focus on raising the energy and lowering the stress and those two kind of supporting each other and becoming this positive feedback loop is, is really what we're trying to get at. Yeah,

Brian (58m 17s):

Yeah. Well said. All, right? Dalton, lots of great stuff. Best place for people to find you YouTube. Analyze and Optimize and Instagram.

Dalton (58m 29s):

Yeah, so YouTube, like you said, Analyze and Optimize on Instagram, we're at Analyze and Optimize Twitter, we are out at out indoctrination, so like indoctrination but with an out. And then we have, we're on a, we're on a number of different platforms, so I can send you our, our, our big link bio, which which has all of our right, you know, all the supplements that we have talked about and all of the content and, and soon to be some more consultation options for people if they, if they're interested in, in getting some more help. But yeah, it's a lot of fun. Thanks for, thanks for having me. Yeah,

Brian (59m 8s):

Thanks for coming on second time. So it's all Jack, we said hi and well with, yeah, I will leave all that information in the show notes so people can check you out and learn more about what you guys are up, up to. So thanks so much,

Dalton (59m 23s):

All. right? Sounds good. Thank you ma'am.

Brian (59m 26s):

Thanks for listening to the Get, Lean Eat Clean Podcast. I understand there are millions of other Podcasts out there and you've chosen to listen to mine and I appreciate that. Check out the show notes at Brian Gryn dot com for everything that was mentioned In, this episode. Feel free to subscribe to the podcast and share it with a friend or family member that's looking to get their body back to what it once was. Thanks again and have a great day.

Dalton from Analyze & Optimize


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