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episode #90

Interview with James Barry: A Clever Way to Eat Organs

October 11, 2021 in Podcast


0 (1s): Coming up on the, get lean, eat clean podcast. 1 (4s): The more you can plan your meals based on your week. And I, and I, and I like to get pretty granular. Like if I have a day where I'm just slammed and I know I'm going to be slammed, that that's a day where I would meal plan, a slow cooked meal, one that I could throw everything in at the morning, turn it on, schedule it, whatever. And then it's done when I'm done with my day. So that way I don't have to, you know, in the middle of the day, start my food or do anything to it. So I really liked the meal plan like that based on how busy the day is, maybe I slow cook. Maybe a different meal is like a simple one pot meal, you know? And then I get a little bit fancier maybe on the weekend or something like that. But meal planning is great because you have a list. 1 (47s): You go to the grocery store, you're not making any impulse buys. You just follow that list and you only buy what you're going to be using. 0 (54s): Hello and welcome to the get clean, eat clean podcast. I'm Brian grin. And I'm here to give you actionable tips to get your body back to what it once was five, 10, even 15 years ago each week. I'll give you an in-depth interview with a health expert from around the world to cut through the fluff and get you long-term sustainable results. This week I interviewed CEO of pluck James Barry. James has spent 16 plus years in the culinary field as a private chef for the likes of Tom cruise, George Clooney and John Cusack. He's also been the chef on vans. Warped tour traveled to 50 north American cities started a food delivery company, and now it started an Oregon based all purposes thing called pluck. 0 (1m 39s): It's an easy and delicious way to get organ meats into your diet. I've been using it myself and I do love it. We also discuss why it's important to get organ meats in your diet, the importance of meal planning for your health, best foods to use pluck in his favorite celebrity to cook for and his one tip to get your body back to what it once was. This was a great interview with James. I know you'll enjoy it. Thanks so much for listening and enjoy the interview. All right. Welcome to the get lean eat clean podcast. And my guest today is James Barry. Welcome to the show. 1 (2m 14s): Thank you for having me, Ryan. 0 (2m 15s): Yeah. Thanks for coming on CEO of an Oregon based seasoning company called pluck, correct? 1 (2m 23s): Yes. Yeah. That's we just, we just debuted in January of 20, 21 this year. 0 (2m 30s): Oh, okay. And before that, perhaps, maybe I know you did some, your you've been in the culinary field for quite a while. Yeah. What, what else have, have you done before you did pluck? 1 (2m 42s): Well, so I, I, I got into cooking. I've always loved cooking, but I got into it in my thirties. And so I've been in it now over 16 years and I, when I got into it, I knew I wanted to work privately with clients. So I started out working with celebrities. I worked with a lot of trainers and their clients, and eventually I wanted to expand beyond people that just had money. So I, I created a meal delivery service in Los Angeles and I ran that for eight years. And then between then and now I did recipes for cookbooks. 1 (3m 24s): There's one. I did the recipes for eat naked, which is a book by it's a nutritional book by Margaret Floyd. And then the naked foods cookbook is the follow-up cookbook. And then I recently did Dr. Ali Alejandro youngers newest book, which is called clean seven. I did the recipes for that. So been in the field a long time. And a lot of my specialty is really in helping people to eat healthy, but to do it in a way where they don't feel deprived. That that seems to be still one of the biggest issues with people eating healthy is they associated. This is bland and not, not interesting. And so that's always been one of my mission is to kind of dispel that. 1 (4m 8s): And, and that's really why I came up with pluck. I mean, to me, Oregon's are, are one of the most nutrient dense foods on the planet, and yet we're not eating them. I mean, the majority of people on you, I think you said you and your, your, your wife eat them. But like, I, you know, people do, I think it's, I think it's like less than 1% actually do. And yet we are over 30% of the world is nutrient deficient. So clearly we have issues, right? I mean, cause it's not around calories, that's clearly not the issue. Cause we're, you know, we have an obesity epidemic. So, so that was really what I was trying to solve with, with pluck is how can I get the most nutrient dense food into your diet without you thinking it's icky without you knowing how to cook it without you needing to know how to cook it with just, just kind of get over that hump. 0 (5m 2s): Yeah, no, that's such a actually, you know, it's one of these ideas that you, that now that I see, and I have one with me right here for people watching is when I saw it, when I saw the product and the idea it's one of those ideas. We were like, God, why didn't, I think 1 (5m 19s): I'm kind of, I'm kind of blown away that I thought about it. I mean, cause it is the first of its kind, there is no other product like it out there and I'm kind of blown away that in today's day and age, I figured out a product that doesn't exist yet. I mean, it's just, you don't see that anymore. So I'm in all as well. 0 (5m 36s): Which nowadays is crazy. Cause I feel like there's something for someone out there. If you search hard enough and you are right. I mean we're over consuming calories and under consuming nutrients. Right. I would say, yeah. And you know, there's just this stigma around organs and eating organs. And when you say it to people, they just, you know, they're like, oh my God, oh, we're having liver tonight. You know, I think liver was a thing back in the day. I remember like my grandma and grandfather used to have like liver and tongue and it's like, I feel part of it, part of it. It's just, if you don't hear it in the mainstream and you know, you don't go to whole foods, you don't see an aisle of Oregon meats and you know, maybe that'll change one day. 0 (6m 21s): What are your thoughts around that? 1 (6m 23s): It's fascinating. And I had many conversations with my mom with, with people, older people, you know, in their seventies. Cause you really do have to go to that age to find people that actually grew up with it. It's sad. I can't just say, oh, your parents probably had it. Cause that dates me. Right. Cause, cause if you're younger than I am then Mo no, probably your parents didn't need it, but, but it's fascinating. Cause I talked to them and they all say like, they're all like, yeah, I actually liked it or yeah, it was good. So it wasn't, it was a food that was eaten and it wasn't pressure around me. It was just like, well not for everyone. Of course there were some that were pressured into eating liver and onions whenever they served it. 1 (7m 4s): But the ones I've talked to, they said they actually liked it. But then when I say, well, why don't you eat it now? No one has an answer like nobody. And it's like, whoa. So what is going on from my research? I do know that I do know that organs back in the day were seen as, and then when I say back day, I'm talking around pre-World war II. They were seen as poor people food. For some reason, the economy came into the, the situation. So, so eating nicer cuts of meat were seen as more luxurious. So a lot of people gravitated towards, you know, wanting to purchase nicer cuts of meats because it represents status symbol. 1 (7m 45s): Right. But then when world war two happened, the us was concerned due to all the protein, the muscle meat that was going abroad for the soldiers, they were worried of a shortage. And so they actually started a campaign, the federal campaign, trying to educate and support people, eating organ meats because they saw that as the main option towards, you know, getting sustenance, getting the protein, getting the nutrients without relying on muscle meat. And it worked, they people, that's why our great-grandparents our grandparents. That's why they were eating origami because it was not only was it emphasized by our government. It was affordable and it was available. 1 (8m 28s): But that nowadays I talk to people, most people don't know how to get it. They don't know where to get it. Most people don't know how to cook it. Right. And, and then, you know, and then they just don't want to touch it. Like you talk, I mean, tongue, his tongue is very prevalent in the Mexican culture. You go to a Mexican restaurants called langua and it's delicious. I mean, for those that have not tried it, it is hands down delicious. I highly recommend it. It cooks very similarly to a muscle meat. You can, you can slow cook it. You could pressure cook it. You braise it. But what people don't want to deal with it. So when you get the tongue, it's got a sheath around it, you know, it's got this kind of hair, tongue hairs on it. 1 (9m 9s): It's got a thick sheet and you have to, when you cook it, you then peel that off after cooks and it comes off really easily. But because I think it's just different for people 0 (9m 20s): That don't want to, they don't want to deal 1 (9m 22s): With it. But if you did deal with it, you'd find out that underneath that sheath, it's this beautiful, shreddable like muscle meat that is delicious and takes on the flavor. Just like if you were eating pulled pork or barbacoa or something like that, it's just so, so good. 0 (9m 38s): Yeah. I mean, you know, I see it more and more maybe cause I'm in the health game and there's more companies I find that are popping up. Like I just got recently liver crisps or they're almost like chips, but they're, you know, good liver and there's some salt and maybe a little bit of onion, but really clean. And then obviously your company popping up. So I do feel like it's going to maybe, maybe it'll make a bit of a comeback, you know, as opposed to just always eating muscle meats. You know, you wonder if you'll, you'll start seeing it in grocery stores. I think that that'll be the telltale sign is if it starts getting into like the whole foods of the worlds and that it might make a little bit, a little bit of a comeback because you gotta wonder with all the conventional raised meat that we have in society, what we're, and you probably know this maybe with your company and doing research, where does all the rest of the, the, the Calgo 1 (10m 33s): Yeah, I do actually. It's interesting. So we, we do not have a very, we don't have an established supply chain for organ meats for human consumption and I have to really classify it or stress that it's for human consumption because it is a false that people think the whole animal is not used. The whole animal in the U S anywhere in the world is used. They just, a lot of times it's just not used for human food. It's used for pet food. It's used for zoo food. It's used to re feed the, the conventional animals. I mean, that's where technically that's where mad cow disease came from is because they were sick cows. And then they were, they were basically like, like chopping them up and then re feeding them to the cows and let's see it in the cows are getting sick so that there's, it's common practice that every part of the animal gets used. 1 (11m 26s): But you have to go to other countries like New Zealand or Argentina to actually find parts of the animal that are for human consumption. And even then they're not USDA what they are is they're considered a dietary supplement. So it's FDA when it comes to the U S wants. That's important. So that's one of the things I'm ex trend too. Cause I'm, I'm a really my proponent, I am a huge proponent of nose to tail eating. I really think that that is one of the things that is lacking from every diet right now, even someone that's calling or you talk to a hardcore carnivore, they're still not eating the arguments. 0 (12m 4s): I know a few, you 1 (12m 5s): Know what I mean? Like, I mean, there are some, I should, I should say the hardcore ones are, but the ones that are just kind of following it because they think it's the best way to eat. They're not doing the organ meats. And, and I really think that one of the reasons why we have so many chronic health issues is because we're not eating enough nose to tail. And, and that is what I'm trying to help change. I mean, I have ideas for other ways of getting animal organs into our diet, but the key is finding and or establishing the supply chain like, cause I I'm, I'm trying to source the Oregon's here domestically. Cause I, my first run, I got them from New Zealand, from which as I said, New Zealand is set up for the, the supply chain. 1 (12m 49s): You can get pretty much almost every organ from there. And that's where most of the supplement companies get their organs. It's really clean country in terms of the, how they're raised, how they're produced, but I'm trying to establish it here domestically. And I'm already running into issues where I can't find a meat processor, for example, that's doing pancreas or I can't find meat processes that are doing certain organs and it's just, you know, you talk to them and they're like, well, it's just because there's either not a supply chain forward or a need or they don't want it. They're just not set up to it because you have to, you have to kinda, you know, slice it a little bit more. 1 (13m 29s): For example, you know, you have to, you have to be a little bit more conscientious of one. Cause I was talking to one rancher and he was telling me the way they do the organs is they cut, they cut up the, they cut open the cattle and then all the organs is pour onto a table. And then, you know, they'll cut out the liver, the liver, the liver is usually the number one. And then a lot of times also the heart and then the spleen, but then pretty much that's where they not the spleen, sorry, the heart liver kidney are usually the top three. And then the other ones, they just kind of shuffle off, you know, to be ground up or go to the pet industry. They just don't take the time and it's not established. 0 (14m 9s): Yeah. That's actually was going to be my next question is where you source your, your, you know, your organs from, for your company is that it's so New Zealand is, is that yeah. Cause there's a, there are like ancestral supplements and a lot of supplement companies are getting it from there. 1 (14m 24s): Yeah. We actually, I think we source from the same place X ancestral supplements. So it's anyone that's doing those. We're, we're getting the same ingredients. The, the, the key with New Zealand is, you know, they're, they're an island, so they're able to control the elements a lot better. They're they're grass fed grass finished, at least from the ranches I'm getting from. And they don't use GMO they're there. They're not pumping the cows full of any. So that's good. It's just, it's just a healthier product. And you know, I can't emphasize that enough. I'm sure you've made talk about this as well is when you're eating organs, you really do. You need to focus on quality because there is a false, there's a false concept that people think of the organs, because they're a filtration point for animals that they're also where toxins get stored. 1 (15m 16s): And then it's not true. It's actually stored in the fat typically, if any, any toxins that don't actually get, you know, leave the body are stored in the fat. However, if the animal is sick, yeah. It's going to get stored in the, or it's going to get stored in lots of random places, but yeah, the organs will not be clean and healthy. So you really can't. I would never recommend anyone that you're purchasing organs from a conventional cow. I mean, unless you, unless you personally know how that cow is raised, I think it's Chante. 0 (15m 51s): Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of people think that the, that the liver actually stores stores that could store these toxins, but that they don't, they filter them out. Right? 1 (16m 3s): Yeah, they do. And that, and that's true, even in our bodies, you know, like, you know, if we, we dealt, if we digressed into like detoxing, for example, you know, people, you know, detoxing so popular, particularly the last few years, and it's like, everyone's getting on the detox bandwagon. But the reality is, is like, well, but if your toxins, if your elimination pathways are not cleared, where are those toxins going to go? You know? And so, and it's the same thing. Like with an animal, you gotta make sure that properly being fed. You gotta make sure that they're not in a stressed out environment all the time. You know, it's very important. I mean, I I'm, I'm a really big believer in, did you ever see that movie back in the day called chalk a lot or like water for chocolate? 0 (16m 46s): Oh, I highly 1 (16m 46s): Recommend anyone that hasn't seen us check them out. Both of them movies, they're, they're there, one's called like, like water for chocolate. And the other one is a shock a lot. And they're both an emphasis on the energy you put into food. So when you're making the food, if you, if you filling it with love as you make it, that's what people will get when they eat it. And I'm a really, I mean, I've been cooking for, you know, like I said, over 16 years and I got to tell you it's true. I mean, if I'm pissed off stressed out and that's what, how I'm making the food, you know, there's, there's enter energy permeates, you know what I mean? It's wa food is water soluble, you know what I mean? So energy permeates and it's, it's fascinating. 1 (17m 29s): And so I really do look at the healthy of the animal is going to equate to your own health if you're eating that animal. 0 (17m 34s): Yeah. No, that makes sense. And what would you say, like, I mean, you've been a chef for a while and been in the culinary field for a long time. What would you say some of the main things that you saw to keep people healthy? I mean, I always say if you can cook for you're way ahead of a lot of people, as far as getting back your health, because if you're always going out to restaurants, you know, you're just going to be consuming probably quite a bit of vegetable oils and things like that. What are the, what were your go tos as far as cooking for individuals and making sure that they're healthy? 1 (18m 8s): Yeah, you actually, that is one point. I always tell people is like, if you're eating at restaurants or if you're getting food already packaged process, basically if you're not controlling the ingredients, you need to really be aware of what is being used. And here's a little story. So I, when I used to have that meal delivery in LA, there was a, a few restaurants in LA where you would go to get food items, food items, or even to go boxes, any, anything like that. And one was called restaurant Depot and there were, it's pretty much the predominant place. Most restaurants would go. But I, at the time, when I first started going, I was mostly going to get my delivery about boxes, like the little, the boxes that the food would go into. 1 (18m 58s): Cause a lot of my food I got from farmer's markets, but when I first started going to this place, what would happen is there to be all these carts and they would have the name of the restaurant. So they already, the food was already stacked on the cart and it had the name of the restaurant who ordered that food on it. And it was just basically waiting for someone to process it. And there'd just be card after card after card. And I would start walking down the aisle and I see this and I'd be like, oh my God, this restaurant gets it here. That rest. I mean, I couldn't believe it. The number of restaurants that I thought were more like farm to table were getting their food here. So people understand. So restaurant Depot is like conventional as conventional can get. 1 (19m 39s): I mean, there's very little organic produce. The it's it's predominantly major, major corporation run food, you know, craft is huge. And so a lot of times what you're seeing is you'll see someone they'll have like a mayonnaise, a barbecue sauce, a teriyaki sauce, and you'll think that they made it from scratch, but now they just bought it at restaurant Depot. It's pre-packaged, it's got horrible oils in it, tons of sugar, just horrible ingredients. It's all the stuff that, you know, people like yourself are telling people in the naughty and it's, it's in all of it from canola oils to Cornell's to soy oil. 1 (20m 19s): It's just an everything. And so yes, that is hands down. One thing you can do is don't assume that the restaurant that you think is healthy is doing everything from scratch, unless you're truly seeing them do it. Like they're very transparent and they have like, you know, like a walk-in where you can see through the window and you see the ingredients or you see the shelves with the ingredients. But I mean that, that is hands down. Yeah. If you want to be healthy, you cannot out all the time. So that's definitely one the other, the other big learning piece that I would share that's really underrated or just not as you not utilize as much as I think it should be, which is planning meal planning. 1 (21m 1s): It's, it's really huge, huge difference. Cause we're all emotional eaters. I mean, we're, we're, you know, we're constantly, but we're constantly making choices, spontaneous choices based on emotion, based on hunger. And so the more you can plan your meals based on your week. And I, and I, and I like to get pretty granular. Like if I have a day where I'm just slammed and I know I'm going to be slammed, that that's a day where I would meal plan a, a slow cooked meal, one that I could throw everything in at the morning, turn it on, schedule it, whatever. And then it's done when I'm done with my day. So that way I don't have to, you know, in the middle of the day, start my food or do anything to it. 1 (21m 41s): So I really liked the meal plan like that based on how busy the day is, maybe I slow cook, maybe a different meal is like a simple one pot meal, you know? And then I get a little bit fancier maybe on the weekend or something like that. But meal planning is great. Cause you have a list, you go to the grocery store, you're not making any impulse buys. You just follow that list and you only buy what you're going to be using because that's another issue is, is food waste. Is this, you know, I can't even tell you how many people I've cooked for. It's just constantly just getting thrown at stuff is just constantly just getting wasted. It happens all the time. People purchase a whole thing of something and they don't use it. They don't get to it. It's in the back of the refrigerator. 1 (22m 22s): They don't, they just don't think about it. But when you meal planning know exactly what you're using. 0 (22m 26s): Yeah, no, that's a great tip. I mean, if you, if you don't meal plan, that's when you sort of impulsive buy and get things that you probably shouldn't eat, which could be like fast food or something like that. But yeah, like for example, myself and my wife, we order a lot from like, you know, like a sustainable, like healthy farm and we'll get it in bulk and have it in the freezer. And then whatever we want that, that, you know, we just decide what we want the day before, leave it out. You know, we keep it pretty simple. We're not making like necessarily like these big gourmet meals, but it's either probably going to be some type of, you know, fish meat or yeah. 0 (23m 7s): Something like that. We're pretty boring eaters. I feel like if you're a boring, boring eater though, although that's why you have your company. Right. Cause it, it sounds boring, but honestly, like, you know, you know, you put this on like even like a ribeye, which I haven't tried it on a ribeye, we're going to try it on a white fish tonight. What, how what's the percentage of organ meats in, in one of these I'm curious, you know, 1 (23m 33s): So I actually tried, I tried doing in all different capacities, keeping in mind the, my goal was to get past the falling, which is a people aren't getting enough organ meats in their die. And B people associate the Oregon taste as being icky. So my goal was a kid. I want to get a small doses of origami into your diet, but in frequent use, because if you do that, you get a cumulative effect. I mean, that's true with even bad things, right? So there's we're sir, we're, we're going after the cumulative effect. And I tried, I tried doing a 50, 50% Oregon meat, two spices, and it was like, ah, this is, this is a bit meaty. 1 (24m 15s): Like this is, this is, this is feeding into people's concept of like what origami tastes like when I did that. So I found a nice balance at around 15% to the spices, which if you use daily, you know, and that's the whole goal is I'm trying to get you to use in every meal, just the pinch here, a pinch there. And if you use it all the time are basically replaced salt and pepper. You will get that accumulative effect. Cause then entire bag of pluck actually has a lot. Now a pinch of pluck does not. I mean, cause it's a pinch, right? But if you, if you go through the whole bag, you are getting nutrients where you previously were not. 1 (24m 55s): We do have some future flavors coming out actually soon. And one of them that I'm going to do, and this, this was kind of just from some feedback I got, but it, but it's more of like, I just started to see that there was a market for it, which is I'm going to do a hundred percent organ meat plant. Like, so I'm basically gonna do one where you can just order a pouch of origami. There's no salt in it. There's nothing added to it. So then that way you can control, like, let's just say you already have spices that you really like, you just add this and it's easier than having to open your capsules. It's going to be cheaper than ordering supplement capsules. 1 (25m 36s): So I just started to realize like, you know, there are people out there that want that. And then also when it kind of opens up too, is that I've gotten some feedback from clients or customers that say my, when I get the pluck in the mail, I'm like my animal, my cat is going crazy for the pouch because I can smell it. Can you produce a hundred percent one so I can sprinkle it on their food? And I'm like, yeah, that's brilliant. Of course. So 0 (26m 1s): There, you got a dog food out of it. 1 (26m 3s): It's like a human and cause that's the thing. Organs are like good for every, every living. You know, if you go on the wild and you see a lion attack, a gazelle, what is the first thing they're eating, they're gone after the organs And the bones are just there. They're using all the things that, that they know are going to get the maximum, you know, banks. 0 (26m 27s): Right, exactly. And on that point, if someone listening saying, well, why maybe if you could speak on the health benefits and what's in like a liver that, you know, I know, you know, obviously you got protein and you know, vitamin a and B vitamins and things like that. What w what are some of the biggest benefits of consuming organ meats? 1 (26m 49s): Well, so I, so pluck has five organs. So it has liver, kidney, heart, pancreas, and spleen. And I did five because once again, I'm trying to get the nose to tail. So I'm trying to support people and getting more organs. Now, now liver is the one you hear about the most. It's, it's just got an amazing amount of heme iron, which is really important. Cause he Meyer means it's more absorbable for the body. If you're taking iron supplements and it's not heme iron, it's not going to be as, as absorbable. You're probably peanut most of it. And you don't even realize that. And Oregon's in general because it's a whole food, every nutrient. 1 (27m 29s): So you have vitamin a, B, C, D, E, and K essential minerals like iron calcium, copper, magnesium, phosphorus, potassium, and zinc. So it has, I mean, that's, that's in, Oregon's in general, right though. It kind of like the Nate mother nature's multivitamin. And I always laugh because it's like, well, when, when you have someone taking a prenatal, what's in the prenatal, oh wait, it's everything I just listed. So holy moly. That's why, you know, people trying to get pregnant, it's always emphasized eat some organ, eat some liver, but you know, the, the, like, so for example, let's just take a couple of them. So fully is one of the minerals and organs. 1 (28m 12s): And it's plays a role in making and repairing DNA. It's producing red blood cells. So just in terms of like repair work, that happens to your body fully so important, the B vitamins, they help to convert your food into glucose, to produce energy. That's what B vitamins support and B12 is something you hear a lot of people not getting in, for example, some vegan and vegetarian diets, their organs have an abundance amount of B12. Spleen is high in vitamin C. The heme iron is huge for both selenium, Coleen, preformed, vitamin a retinol. 1 (28m 53s): That's key. That's also in kidney. So in general, like you, you kind of like look at, I don't know, EV every, every physical, you know, biological system in your body and what is needed, it's like, oh, it's an origami, right? I mean, you name it. And it's organ meat is providing that support heart for examples. High-end, Kohut coenzyme Q 10 and it's preformed, which makes it more absorbable 0 (29m 25s): And co and Coke. You tend to something that a lot of people are lacking 1 (29m 31s): And it's, and it's all for it's vital for energy production and prevention of oxidative stress. And what's the biggest thing we all have is oxidative stress, the stress, the oxidative stress that's happening in everyone's body, the, the, the inflammation that's happening. I mean, organ meats are going to support that. So it's, it's ironic that I, that I started in the midst of COVID, but honestly, like to me, organ meats are the food that you should be eating right now. No, all the time, but particularly right now. 0 (30m 1s): Yeah. And actually, I just had the idea, cause I do have, you know, I make eggs a lot. This, I got, I, yeah. I'm going to start putting this in my eggs. I mean, why not? You know, 1 (30m 10s): So good. That's, that's the one I get told the most is people say, I love it in the eggs, but honestly, we I've tried it on everything. And I didn't mean, you know, when I created it, I didn't know it, that it was going to be good and all that stuff. I just, I created an, I tried a few things and I'm like, Hey, this is good. Let's put this out. And then I start getting feedback, like, oh, I tried this on a pomegranates and I tried this on cheese and I tried this on toast and it's like, and then I started, my kids love it. And we put it on like popcorn for family movie night. I put it on salad. I put it on. You said fish, I've done fish. Oh, we did oysters one time. And it's just like, it just, it's just so good. 1 (30m 52s): And one of the reasons I think that it tastes so good and food is because it's predominantly umami and umami is what's considered the fifth unique taste, you know? Cause you have bitter sour, sweet and salty. And then umami was discovered. And I think it was around the 1960s or early seventies. And it's a completely unique tastes. But what it does is it actually makes the, it enhances the flavors of the other four. Then a lot of times when you see by packaged food, you'll hear like MSG or, or you'll see sometimes in natural, they, they hide it in food sometimes and other and other things. 1 (31m 33s): But the reason why they're adding things like MSG to products is to enhance the flavor. And it's because it's a naturally when Monica, sorry, MSG is not necessarily a natural source, depends on where they're getting it from, but it is, it's an umami. That's why they're adding it because they know it's going to make, it's going to enhance the flavor. And then what it also does, is it the monosodium glutamate, it also like triggers that kind of addictive part of your brain. So you want to eat more and more and more. 0 (32m 4s): Have you tried it in water? 1 (32m 7s): You know, it's funny is, is Ben Greenfield put it in coffee? And I had never even thought of doing it. I never even thought of it. I'm like what? And he did that. And I was like, that's crazy. But he was like, it's not bad, but it definitely gave me the idea of like, oh, I should create a beverage version of it, you know, because it's no different than like, you know, four Sigmatic mushroom, you know, like the way what they're doing with mushrooms. There's no reason why I can't do that with origami. 0 (32m 36s): Yeah. And not here, like, you know, the idea of putting on vegetables for people who are vegetarian and vegan, where you, I, where you are vegan at one point, 1 (32m 45s): I know, I feel like everyone in the health field has always come from somewhere. I've been to, I've been to conferences, you know, wherever like Weston, a price conferences. And, and if you don't know Western price, it's very much a eaters co you know, group and in Weston a price. I remember they asked the whole room and I'm talking like hundreds of people. They asked the whole room kit who here has ever been a vegan of a certain in the entire room, raised their hand. So, yeah, I I've tried everything. I mean, I, I, you know, I experimented with just my own diet at different points before I was a chef. So at one point I was eating like all chicken and then I went to eating all tofu and I, I tried vegan. 1 (33m 27s): I I've tried carnivores. I, a lot of times I'm just trying stuff because as a chef, I need to know how to cook it. I need to understand it. I need, I need to know what diet is kind of the trend. And I need to be able to support clients who want to follow that trend. So I've always kind of done that naturally, but I, I personally, I mean, I've listened to your podcast and, and I would say that we probably very similarly, like, I, I I've just found when I was doing all tofu, holy moly. I completely lost my sex drive. And I was only in my twenties. I completely lost my sight. I just, it was like non-existent. 1 (34m 7s): And I, and I, you know, I, my body, I was lots of digestive distress from it and it just wasn't working for me. And if anything, I think I'm a huge proponent of eat. However you want, because everyone's got their journey, you know, so eat however you want. But then when your body gives you feedback on what you ate, listen, that's kind of what I tell people is like, all I asked is that you listen to what your body feedback is. And if your body is not, if you're, if you have a lot of gas, if you're, if you're getting, you know, bad skin rashes and anything like that, if you're constipated, if you know you name it, if some, if your body is physically reacting to what you're eating, you need to listen to that because that's telling you that it's not working. 1 (34m 57s): Yeah. 0 (34m 58s): That's a good, good piece of advice. I think a lot of times you might get some feedback and you sort of brush it off or you think it's something else, but people don't realize how, how effective changing, what you eat can, can really make, just go such a long way. 1 (35m 12s): Well, it's yeah, absolutely. And what's sad too, is, is for some reason, food or diets in general are one of those things that you don't, most people won't leave their comfort zone. You know, they kind of, most people kind of do what they were, what they were raised with, you know, or they find they're kind of, they're find their sweet spot, whatever that may mean. I mean, cause I say sweet spot and you would think that means healthy, but that's not necessarily what it means. You just what's working for them. And I mean, like what's working environmentally for them, like in terms of their lifestyle, all that stuff. Right. But most people don't divert very much. They don't take many risks with food. And I think it's, I think it's really fascinating because it's one of those, it's one, it's the one realm where to truly make change with your diet. 1 (35m 59s): It's almost like you have to have a life-threatening experience. I find most people once they have some kind of illness, threat, or fear that comes up from getting sick or something like that, when something truly comes into fruition around their health, that is the thing that finally motivates them to make change. And it's sad to me that people have to wait for that because sometimes it's too late. 0 (36m 24s): Yeah, no, that's a good point. I mean, I mean, I work with, you know, middle-aged and up males and you know, maybe they come to me, they fail the stress tests or, you know, something, something triggered them to want to make a change when really it's all about being proactive. Right. I mean, take, you know, if you're proactive about your health, then you're a way ahead of the game. And I'm curious, this is a little bit not off the topic, but I know I read in your bio that you've cooked for Tom cruise and puff daddy and George Clooney. What did, who is your favorite person to cook for and who was your least favorite person to cook for? 1 (37m 10s): You know, it's funny. So I, I, I really enjoyed, I, I really enjoyed my interactions with George Clinton. He, I would say he was probably my favorite mostly because of the interactions I had. They were very sporadic. Cause I didn't like with Tom, I was with him for almost two years and I was very intimate with them and I liked him a lot. Like, like I'm not trying to downplay working for him. It was, it was really a great experience, but I just had it's it's more of the, the time that I had with George, I just really, I say I really respect him. And I just really liked his style. Like he, he gifted me some olive oil from his personal olive farm and it, and it's just, we had conversations about his dad and politics and I was actually at his house when I was delivering. 0 (38m 11s): Yeah, we lost it for a second, but you're back. 1 (38m 15s): Where did you lose me? 0 (38m 16s): Yeah, just recently you were talking about George Clooney. You were at his house. 1 (38m 20s): Okay. I'll start there. So I was at George's house and it was totally just happened. It was just circumstance. It just, it happened to be this night, but it was on the night of, oh, Barack Obama winning of his second presidency. And, and so I was there that night when it happened and I got to watch the festivities and talk to George about his dad's time and politics and just, it was just kind of amazing. And while I'm there, he got a, it was either an email or a text from Obama saying, thank you so much for supporting me. And I'm sitting there going, holy moly. 1 (39m 1s): Well actually George at the time said, I can't believe, you know, a boy from, I can't remember where he's from. If it was Illinois, he said like, from where he's from a boy from, so-and-so just got texted by the president. I'm like, and I'm sitting there thinking in my head. I'm like, well, I can't believe I'm standing next to, towards plenty who just got texted by the president. So I just, I just had like, it was just the circumstances. It was just kind of cool. The few times I did get to hang out with him. Super nice guy though. But in general I will say this about all the celebrities I've worked with. They're all, when you know, when I talk to them, I'm just a person and they're just a person. And I, I really was just always so grateful. I got led into their lives and got to know them because one thing I found is, you know, a lot of celebs might have some strain relationships with their trainers, for example, 0 (39m 55s): Briefly 1 (40m 9s): Either. Yep. Is that me or you? I wonder why it's so bad. 0 (40m 13s): Yeah. You know, you were, you were just coming in a little bit scrambled, but 1 (40m 20s): Where a, where, which should I start over with the George plenty one. 0 (40m 23s): Oh no, you're good. I'm just recording it all. And I'll have my guy edited so you can start, you were talking. Oh yeah. But you learned from them or you were 1 (40m 33s): Yeah. I'll start from. Okay. So one thing I would say about all the subbies that I worked with that every celebrity worked with was really nice to me and I had a really clean relationship with them. And I honestly think that that is because you're always nice to the person cooking your food. You never want to have a strange relationship with the person cooking your food. Now I definitely can speak from my experience that some of them would have strained relationships with their trainers, but that's because, you know, when you're pumping iron or when you're working out and getting aggressive with that, you know, emotions come out. So it's not necessarily that they didn't like each other, but it was more that the trainers would see kind of darker sides. 1 (41m 17s): I never saw that stuff. I mean, every, every person I worked with just was really cool. Like Gerard Butler had a really, really fun time with him. He's just a really great guy, Tom, as well. And yeah, I, I really, I, that was really lovely experience and I'm very grateful to have worked for all those people. 0 (41m 38s): Yeah. I was curious, I just figured I'd ask. So 1 (41m 41s): That's fun. It's it was, it was a fun time and I, and I definitely have crazy stories that I can't even talk about because, you know, I signed NDAs and all that stuff, but you know, it's, it's both the privilege and weirdness of Hollywood. That's all I can say about it. Right. 0 (41m 58s): And I'm sure. Well, yeah. Now I just, yeah, I had eggs last night. I'm definitely going to try this on my eggs. Cause that's something I have almost probably every other day. What do you like to put it on? Do you put it on pretty much almost everything that you have? 1 (42m 14s): Yeah, pretty much. I mean, I, I, I even, you know, like when we do cook organ meats, for example, we even put it on her. I mean, yeah. Cause it's one of those things, kinda like one of my friends would say it's kind of like Curry. Like, so you might add turmeric to your Curry, you know, it's like you might add more cumin to your Curry. It's like, just because it has already means doesn't re re restrict it from actually using it with organ mates. But I would love to share actually I have like a little for those that are listening, you know, of your audience that are not into organ meats yet I do have a little kind of suggestive step, you know, like staircase to getting more organs in your, in your diet. 1 (42m 58s): If you don't mind, I'd love to share that. So, so the way that I, from my experience I would recommend is you start with plugs. So pluck is definitely the easiest way to go to organs in your diet because you don't have to know how to cook. You can even be eating out and just sprinkle it on your food. It's totally so easy, so easy. And then it doesn't taste like organs, but I really don't want you to stop there. Like I really want to support people continuing to get organs in your diet. So then I would say, step two is, and you can kind of go either way. So, so if you're, let's say someone is all a squeamish about purchasing Oregon still, then I would say, okay, order just get a beef liver. 1 (43m 38s): Okay. But usually when you get a beef liver, it's frozen, it's pretty large. Keep it in the freezer, don't unfreeze it, just keep it there. And then what I'm going to have you do is every time you're making some kind of ground meat, doesn't matter if it's for spaghetti, doesn't matter for Tam burgers. However, does any ground meat. I would then take that frozen liver and I would shave it, you know, just use like a, use a little grater and shave it into the ground meat. And I wouldn't do, you know, start small, you know, treat it kind of like you would, if you were changing the diet of a pet, you know, they always advise, you start with like 10% and then move on the way up. Right. So it's the same way I would start with just doing, you know, maybe a couple tablespoons of shaped liver into the CR. 1 (44m 23s): And let's say, if it's a pound of ground meat, you know, maybe do two tablespoons of first and then up it from there. And then I would, I would really not go 25%. I find that once, once you go beyond 25%, it changes the texture of the ground, me and then also the flavor. But if you're someone who likes that, then go go 50 50, if you really want it doesn't matter. But if you're someone who's like, ah, I don't want the taste. Then 25% I find is a good threshold so that I would do that in the X. And then the first organ, once you're ready to actually eat Oregon's and you know, cook them and actually deal with them. The first one I would try is heart. And I would even, I would even specify chicken hearts because the heart is more muscle than it's not first of all. 1 (45m 9s): So it's going to be a closer consistency to muscle meat. Secondly, heart is really chicken hearts, particularly they're very sweet. They don't, they don't have an Oregon taste. They're really sweet. They take on flavors really well. And if you don't want to look at the heart, you know, cause they are small. But if you don't want to look at it, just chop it up, add it to, you know, a saute or whatever. But the heart is just, it's, it's really simple. I mean, it cook really fast and they taste really good. And then from there, go to like Tom, you know, and then, and then from tongue, maybe buy beef heart and turn it into kind of like your experience with the hardships. Like, what you can do is slice it really thin and dehydrated and turn it into beef Turkey. 1 (45m 51s): Or you can simply cut off piece of piece of the Oregons and this mince it up with your other ground meat. But I find that those kind of three ways, you know, pluck first, then it's like shaving it. So keeping it frozen. Cause one of the biggest issues with organ meats is they're big. And people once, if they get intimidated by it, they're like, oh, if I D hydrate this whole thing, what do I do with it? And so I'm like, don't, don't be height. Like, don't sorry. I said dehydration, defrost and worried about defrosting it. Cause then they have this whole thing they got to use. So my whole point with step two is just don't defrost it, leave it frozen. And then three you're going into like the easy Oregon's, which is like heart. 0 (46m 31s): Yeah. That's great advice. And, and I like the one shaving the liver into ground me because I've used a few companies that do it for, for you where they'll put some in there, ground meat, they'll put like a small percent of, you know, heart liver company called force of nature. I've I love that. 1 (46m 50s): I love that company. I use their stuff too. 0 (46m 52s): Yeah. Yeah. So they do it and other ones as well, but yeah, doing it yourself, I never thought about doing it. That's a great idea. 1 (46m 60s): Yeah. And like I said, the key is just don't defrost it because ultimately that's, that's really what, what it is around arguments is like, it's not even just your association, it's your intimidate. People are just intimidated by it. They're not familiar with cooking them with eating them. So the first way to get over that hump is to utilize the food in a way that's non-intimidating and that to me leaving it frozen and just grading it is very unintimidated it's just so simple. It's it's almost like you're, you know, if had frozen, I don't know. It's like grading garlic. I mean, it's not, it's, it's really not that different when it's frozen. Cause it's not bloody. There's nothing. There's just nothing awkward about it. 0 (47m 40s): Yeah. No, that's, that's a great, that's great advice. And w what would be one? This is a typical question I ask for most of my guests towards the end is what would be one piece of advice? You'd give someone that, you know, maybe they're in their fifties, sixties and beyond, and they, they maybe want to get, get their bodies back to what it once was maybe 15, 20 years ago. What one piece of advice would you give that individual? 1 (48m 5s): So my gosh, I mean, I, I feel like I've tried so many different things. Like, one thing I I'm really into is is, is temperature a therapy, you know, like cold plunges and, and infrared saunas, stuff like that. But I, I tend to not want, like, to give that kind of advice. We, you have to go out and buy some expensive contraption or some, something like that. I like to go for the simplest, most achievable things. And to me, the two, and I really, I really see them as well. If I was to, if I was to say the most important thing, it has to be sleep, it just has to be like, I would say right away, you know, monitor and like start really, really being more mindful of your sleep. 1 (48m 53s): And there's so many different things you can do that are simple. Like, make sure there's no light coming into your room, make sure that temperature is cooler, not hotter. Make sure you're you, you talk about the slot, make sure you don't eat too late. Like, you know, and you're eating at like six or seven. If you're going around bed around 9, 9, 30, 10, like there there's little tricks, but the reason why sleep would be number one is because every decision you make is based on that sleep. Like I, when I, when I don't get good sleep, I make poor decisions around my food. When I don't make good sleep, I treat people poorly. You know, I, when I don't get good sleep, I treat myself poorly, you know? 1 (49m 35s): So everything starts there. And then I would say, the second thing is, is water intake to me, if you're someone who's older wanting to make changes and you're not drinking predominantly, maybe even only water, then that would be the first thing I changed is stopped drinking all the other stuff. Cause what else would you be drinking? You'd be drinking. Probably teas, like, like ice teas. Probably. I know my, like I'm thinking of someone who's older. Like my dad, like he drinks a lot of lemonade. He still drinks soda. So you're, you're someone like him in that generation. Like just stop that stuff and just switch just to water, whether it's carbonated water or flat water life life-changing 0 (50m 19s): And, and yeah, like, you know, I always say a lot of times you think you're hungry, but you're actually thirsty. So take a drink of water, maybe some mineral and, and then yeah, like getting your calories from, from liquids is, is just not a good route to go because you absorb it faster than anything else. It's like when people have these smoothies and they take the fruit and, you know, mix it up and grind it up, you know, you're going to lose a lot of the nutrients just from the processing alone and the fiber and things like that. When you're better off, if you're going to have it, just have the actual fruit, then mix it up. Absolutely. Yeah. That's awesome. 0 (50m 59s): Advice. And James, this was good. I, I appreciate you coming on and I'm definitely going to start implementing your product and a lot of my foods. So this is a great way to get organ meat to the masses. And I, you know, I appreciate you doing that. So yeah, 1 (51m 15s): Absolutely. And anyone that wants to find it can go to eat pluck.com. That's where we sell it right now. And we're hoping in the new year, we'll be in more retail stores, but eat pluck. And, and if you subscribe to our newsletter, we, we immediately send you a discount, a 10% discount for your first order. 0 (51m 37s): Awesome. All right. E pluck. Thanks so much, James. 1 (51m 40s): Thank you. Have a great one too. 0 (51m 44s): Hey, get lean equally nation. Are you a man between the ages of 40 and 60 years old looking to lose inches around your waist have significantly more energy throughout the day and gain muscle all while minimizing the risk of injuries? Well, I'm looking for three to five people to work one-on-one with in my fat burner blueprint signature program, which I've developed by utilizing my 15 years experience in the health and fitness space. This program is designed specifically for those committed, to making serious progress towards their health goals. Over the next six months, we will focus on sleep, stress, nutrition, meal, timing, and building lean muscle. 0 (52m 25s): If this sounds like a fit for you, email me@brianatbriangrin.com with the subject line blueprint. That's brian@briangrin.com with the subject line blueprint. Thanks for listening to the get lean eat clean podcast. I understand there are millions of other podcasts out there and you've chosen to listen to mine. And I appreciate that. Check out the show notes@briangrin.com for everything that was mentioned in this episode, feel free to subscribe to the podcast and share it with a friend or family member. That's looking to get their body back to what it once was. Thanks again, and have a great day.

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