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0 (1s): Coming up on the get lean, eat clean podcast. 1 (4s): You want to put the body in an environment where there's heavy forces placed on it, right? So bone density goes up. Muscle density goes up, muscle size goes up. Body fat storage goes down because your body doesn't need a bunch of storage. If you're not trying to go long distances. So like, if you're like a sprinter, your body wants to get rid of all that shit. 0 (32s): Hello and welcome to the get lean, eat clean podcast. I'm Brian grin. And I'm here to give you actionable tips to get your body back to what it, once was five, 10, even 15 years ago. Each week. I'll give you an in-depth interview with a health expert from around the world to cut through the fluff and get you long-term sustainable results. This week I interviewed author and the founder of the X three bar, Dr. John Jake wish we discussed many topics such as the difference between variable resistance and lifting weights is cardio a waste of time. Do you need to be sorta build muscle? Dr. John starts around protein, his dry fasting protocol and his one tip to get your body back to what it once was. 0 (1m 15s): This is definitely an entertaining interview. This was round two, and I really enjoyed it. And I know you will too. So thanks so much for listening and enjoy the interview. All right. Welcome to the get lean eat clean podcast. My name is Brian grin and I have Dr. Jay Quish on founder of X three bar and author of weightlifting is a waste of time. And so is cardio. This is part two. Welcome to the show. 1 (1m 42s): Hey, thanks. Yeah, I have the book right here, case anyone wants to know what it looks like. So when you search for it, just look for the red cover in the wall street journal, bestseller emblem. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for having me. And this is like, I like when I get invited back to a podcast, cause that probably means I did something good the first time, you know, it's like podcasts, people they're like media people, but never going to tell you, you did a terrible podcast. So they say, everyone says I was great. It was just, it was awesome podcasts. I was one of my favorite ones, but then when you get invited back, you're like, oh, okay. So they must've meant that. 1 (2m 23s): Otherwise I, I, yeah, well, 0 (2m 26s): I, I invite people back either I've enjoyed the interview or I really enjoy your product and it was both, but I got to say the product, the product has been, been a game changer for me. And I've actually implemented into my program with my clients. So every client that I get that I work with, that's like part of the program. 1 (2m 47s): So 0 (2m 49s): Yes, big fan. Well, I figured we start, you know, not everyone listening probably knows the X three bar. Why don't we talk about the X three bar and the difference between that and you know, lifting regular weights. So that would be obviously the difference between variable resistance and normal weightlifting. Just so people have an eye, you know, I have an idea. 1 (3m 10s): Yeah. So variable resistance is changing the resistance as you move. And what I did is I, I, I invented a medical device a little over 10 years ago that treats osteoporosis. It's the most effective treatment across the process. The world has ever seen beats every drug that's ever been clinically trial. And it had to do with bone compression. So you compress a bone from end to end. So I'm pushing away from myself if this end to this end of the humerus and compressing that bone. And so that's, that's what the, the clinical trial was on. And I noticed that we were loading the bone only in the positions where people absorb high-impact forces, watch these post-menopausal females who have never exercised, not even once in their life. 1 (4m 4s): And after six months of using the medical device, they're using 6, 7, 8, 9 times their body weight. Now professional weightlifters can't do that, but now they're only using it in a very small range of motion. But a lot of the doctors, some of the doctors at the hospital, this was done in London. So the British national health services participated. So the, the government health care system and they, they, the physician that were in the test group. So some of the test subjects were actually positioned possible. And they said like, how does this compare to what people normally lift? Because they weren't like one of the things that was a prerequisite to the study, was it nobody ever had lifted weights before, because that's more like the normal population, right? 1 (4m 54s): Like, especially in that age category, like some of them were like, yeah, yeah. I was in dance when I was like in high school. And you know, you're talking about 60 year old woman and you're like, okay, that's fine. You're not having any lingering effects from that. So what they, what they were asking was like, how, like, these weights are so high. And I didn't see that as a problem. And I think some of them were very leery, you know, like they're putting hundreds of pounds through their hip joint and they're like, can I, can I break something here? And so I had to give them the research answer, you know, nevermind opinion. When you're talking about somebody's safety, it's like, what do we know from the literature? 1 (5m 35s): So, you know, from the literature, impact is dangerous, but we're not doing impact. We're taking the positions you normally absorb, impacting and loading the body with, with slow and controlled resistance. Then it's self applied. So sorta like you can't squeeze your own fist enough to break a finger. You have a process called neural inhibition. It shuts you off before you can do that. So just the safety mechanism and we have safety mechanisms in the body. So instead of designing a computer system that tried to guess what people could tolerate and what people can cause all of those have been a catastrophic failure thus far. 1 (6m 19s): I just thought, okay, let's do it by comfort. If people are comfortable to create more force, well then good. They can continue to create more force. If they're not, then they stop automatically based on their own neural inhibitory process. So, so as people were going through this, this process, they were seeing these tremendous forces. And so I, I can understand it. Something like immediately as I'm having this conversation, people who normally lift beginners put 1.3 times their body weight through their lower extremities, advanced lifters for however, the American college of sports medicine determines what an advanced lifter is because everyone wants to argue this point. 1 (7m 6s): It's five, sorry. It's 1.5, three times their body weight, 0 (7m 12s): Normal weightlifting for lower extremities. 1 (7m 17s): Well, yeah, I mean, I think that's like the top 1% of the strongest people who have participated in the database, which is a sample of 20,000 people. It was 20,000 at the time, it grows about 2000 a year. So, so now, I mean like drug enhanced athletes are not part of that consideration, obviously. You're, you know, if you are enhanced, they asked you not to participate in the survey. Sure. Cause you know, what good would that, do we know something about somebody who's not like anybody else? Cause they take 50 times the amount of testosterone a human should normally have. 1 (7m 58s): Like we're not going to learn anything from that person. So, so yeah, they're disqualified from the testing. So what we found out is the strongest people are putting 1.5, three times their body weight through their, through the lower extremities. But the minimum amount of force that is required to trigger the hip joint to grow the both sides of the hip joint, both the pelvis and the femur is 4.2 multiples of body weight. That's the minimum. So if people go to the gym and they lift 1.53, and they need 4.2, they're not stimulating any bone growth at all. 1 (8m 40s): And so where do high loads come from? So obviously we build bone from somewhere, right? You and I, as little kids, somehow our bone density showed up how that happened. What happened when we were children and children absorb very high impact force. So running, jumping, jumping up furniture, jumping out of trees that all kids do it. In fact, little kids, when they run, they pound their heels on the ground. They had sound like elephants. They might only weigh 60 pounds, but pounding their heels on the ground as they run. And, and so like, like, you know, part of it, it was like, well, why do you do that? Like, God, these kids are so annoying. They don't know why they're doing it, but they're doing it to build bone density. 1 (9m 23s): That's normal. And then as we get older and become heavier heel striking is something we stopped doing. We begin to get on the balls of our feet toe strike and you get a lot more agility when you do that as an adult, like a sprinter, their heels barely touched the ground, their toes strike. And then they fire right off that same cell. Right? So, so the loading dynamics as we age, very interesting, but we can still have the same adaptation that little kids have in building bone at any given time in our lives, just as long as we absorb the proper amount of force. And so when I started looking at how to get the proper amount of force and design the machines and then tests and at this clinical trial, I thought, wow, like humans are seven times stronger. 1 (10m 10s): I did the calculation seven times stronger in the, in the impact ready range of motion than they are in the weaker range of motion. Right. Which when you think about that, that really means weightlifting sucks as a stimulus for growing muscle because where the muscle is most capable, which is, you know, out here in the, in the stronger range 0 (10m 32s): Of motion, almost just so people not watching, which is almost full extension, right. If you're talking about 1 (10m 38s): Just shy of full extension of the arms or legs, right. 0 (10m 43s): That's when you're your strongest, your weakest is if you're talking about chest press would be right at the bottom where you're just trying to get the 1 (10m 49s): Weight off the chest and checks. Right. Right. So, so thank you for bringing that up. I'm not exactly some podcasts. It's like everybody walks, it's more of an audio thing. So, so when, when, when looking at this data, like I thought, wow, like I'm the only one that's really looking at how brutally bad weightlifting is as a stimulus. Now we had studies on variable resistance already. Right? So, you know, like putting bands on bars and stuff like that. But with the data I had, I thought, okay, if you have a test group that hasn't lifting weights and they get, you know, sort of unexpected result, which is very little strength gain over, let's say six months, and then you have weights and variants in the, and that second group has a huge gain in strength. 1 (11m 45s): What's the more important variable wakes or variance variance obviously. Right. I mean, as simple as that is, I would say 99% of the people who comment on the internet are not smart enough to understand that right there. So, so it's, it's, it's kind of interesting as first I was proving it with science and that wasn't enough for most people because they can't understand the science, they're just not intelligent. So what I then had to do was explain it via examples. 1 (12m 26s): So, you know, we had testimonials of people and then if somebody is like, well, it's not possible to gain, you know, X amount of people putting on 20 pounds of muscle in six months. Well, it's not possible to do that. And unless you're on steroids or something like that, and it's just like, okay, it is possible if you're training in the most optimized way, which X three users are and you are not. So have you never seen 20 pounds of growth? I don't care. It's irrelevant because you're not training the same way. So once I start framing the argument like that, they'd be like, okay, let me read that book. And then they'd read the book. And it was like, the book was a huge shift for us. 1 (13m 9s): Yeah. Because it was like, oh, I didn't understand that this has all been documented. And I take all those studies or 16 studies that show a variable resistance is grossly superior to standard resistance. And there's either one of those studies that says the higher the ratio from top to bottom. So the more extreme the variance, the greater, the muscular gain, both sides in strength. And so I took it to the furthest degree possible. So when I'm holding X at the bottom of a chest present five X at the top, right. 0 (13m 49s): Yeah. And you know what, right around there for someone that's been lifting for 20 years or so. And I started using it gosh, about a year and a half ago, I definitely could tell a major difference. And also to join integrity. I used to have some knee pain, some elbow pain from lifting. Sure. I mean, I have not experienced that at all. And I've increased my load from just going up in the bands as I've progressed throughout it. And, and so that's another one you want to comment on the, you know, the joint integrity and just H helping just sustain that throughout the years. 1 (14m 27s): Yeah. Yeah. And that's a mystery for a lot of people who trained with bands and then they see, and they're like, oh, I already trained with bands. And they just think bands is x-ray, it's sort of like a tire and a car, same thing. Right, right. Right. Well, it's not the same thing. So, well, the problem with a band is you draw a band around your back and you go to do a pushup with a band behind your back and your wrists ended up twisting outwardly, and you could break risk knowing that, or, or you'll cause extreme pain in your wrist and you won't be able to train for a week or two, or maybe you'll cause a chronic injury. So you'll never be able to really train correctly again. 1 (15m 7s): And I've, I've seen guys do this, they take, they take an X, three band, and then they use it incorrectly outside of the venue of the product. Right. And then they hurt their joints. So like using X three protects your joints, using bands, destroys your joints. So it's in the right context. So I snap anybody's head off whenever they're like, oh, I love your bands. And I'm like, yeah, it's not bands. 0 (15m 35s): Right. That's one component. There's also a ground plate. Right. And then, yeah. 1 (15m 40s): And a boy. Right. Cause we've got ankles too. Right. So there's the Olympic bar and there is a plate you stand on. And the, and the thing is, I give like, like I was talking to somebody earlier today, who's a pilot. And he was like, well, I, you know, I don't really have room in my bag to bring the ground plate. So is it really that bad if I don't bring the ground plate? I'm like, I don't know. You want to break an ankle or you want to half-ass all your workouts, your training. So like they don't do anything. Like just figure it out. Like either, either you'll figure it out or you're making excuse one of the two. 0 (16m 10s): Right. And you can do, there are a few exercises. You don't need the ground plate for, but 80% of them or whatever you do, you do, you do need the ground, the ground plate. So yeah, it's a, it's definitely a total system. What about, so when did, so you found the x-ray, how long has, have you had you had the X three out for how many years? A little over three years. God does that it, why did I think it was longer than 1 (16m 40s): That? Yeah. We launched our launch. There's kind of a soft launch on the day battery podcast. Yeah. And I pretty sure you heard that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, the Dave Asprey, he's a friend of mine and we had talked about all kinds of research and stuff, mostly about bone density over the years. And then right when I launched this, I'm like, Hey, I got some, I want to talk one your podcast. And, and she, and I actually got together about two months ahead of the podcast. I went up to his house in, in, in Victoria. And well, am I gonna tell everybody where is somewhere near Victoria? 1 (17m 23s): Yeah. I'm not gonna put his address online. Wow. Yeah. It was a little over three years. And then, and then we did a soft launch and it went, it's just gone great. And the more people that get it. So typically a consumer product has a return rate of 30%. So 30% of the products ship out, come right back to you because people don't like it. And they don't like the color or they're too lazy to work out. Finished products are actually on the worst end of consumer products because usually people get something and then they're like, oh, this is work. 1 (18m 4s): I don't want to do this. And then they send it back. But what's great about is people see results right away. Like they train with it the first time. And then within two days later, they look different and they look better. And they're like, oh, this actually works. Unlike all the other crap, I've tried, this must've triggered something. So while they might not understand the science, they understand they like better in the mirror. And so we have a, we have a 1% return rate. Wow. Yeah. So sold a hundred thousand units. And most of them were just still out there and you rarely see one on eBay. 1 (18m 47s): And you know, obviously like some of them end up there, like somebody has one and they die or something like you get a hundred thousand of anybody and somebody will drop off. So, you know, there's some, some things like that, but really I'm not a big, second hand market for it. People love them. 0 (19m 5s): Now let's talk briefly, maybe about, I know your book and it's part of the title is talking about cardio as well. And specifically chronic cardio, maybe speak on that and how that, how that essentially is, can be a waste. 1 (19m 21s): Yep. Yeah. Weight lifting is always time. So as cardio. So now if you want to be an endurance athlete, if you want to be able to run long distances or bike long, even for that, oh, that don't do it. If your goal is losing body fat, because here's what cardio does. You're trying to get your body conditioned to do a lot of work with a small amount of fuel. So if the body never changed, it would just burn all the excess fuel. Right. You know, thermodynamics is this idiot trainer says, I mean, they try and apply the rules and science of melting an ice cube to getting rid of body fat. 1 (20m 11s): That's when someone says, thermodynamics, stop listening. They're just trying to sound smart. They know what the hell they're talking about because when someone's or calories in calories out, you bullshit. That's not how it works. Like your body is not as simple as an ice cube. And when you want to change something in the body, there's a whole system of hormones that control a whole bunch of stuff that are trying to help you be optimized for your environment. So here's the problem. You start doing cardio and your body's like, oh, w we're going to want to go long distances with a small amount of fuel. 1 (20m 54s): So to optimize that, we're going to get rid of muscle because muscle is just a big engine. That's running all the time. We want a small engine, right? So when you lose weight from cardio, oh, you're losing weight, you're losing muscle. So you're getting weaker. This it's like, you see like, like women who do cardio, they always complain. They don't have an ass, like their butt disappears. 0 (21m 16s): Well, I, I think you can really, I think you can really see now the fact that the Olympics were going on and you watch track and field. I mean, would you rather look like the long distance runner 1 (21m 25s): Or the sprinters? Absolutely. Like statuette. Unbelievable. Sure. Look, there's your answer. Yeah. There's your answer you can say, is this the COVID ward? You know what I mean? Like just, they like terrible. Okay, go ahead. No, no. So like you upregulate cortisol when you do cardio, right. And cortisol's job is to get rid of muscle and to preserve body fat. So your body is telling itself, we need to stay as fat as possible, as long as possible. Now, last I checked. 1 (22m 6s): I've never met anybody. And I've talked to thousands of people about their fitness goals. I've never met anybody that said they wanted to be weaker. 0 (22m 18s): One person. Okay. Excellent. Yeah. 1 (22m 21s): There's definitely a lot of people you get weaker and fatter because they follow a stupid advice, but nobody wants that. And so I just tell them, like, that's what cardio is going to do for you. And also the whole, like, I want to be the perfect cross trained athlete. And so they do a ton of cardio and they do a ton of strength training and they end up looking like a guy who's never worked out ever. And it's because all these stimuli are conflicting, right? Like you want to put the body in an environment where there is heavy forces placed on it. Right. So bone density goes up, muscle density goes up, muscle size goes up, body fat storage goes down because your body doesn't need a bunch of storage if you're not trying to go long distances. 1 (23m 12s): So like, if you're like a sprinter, your body wants to get rid of all that shit. Right. So like, think of yourself. It's like, do I want to look like a formula one car? You know, the absolute leanest, the absolute most refined machine that can deliver the greatest amount of power, you know? No, no regard towards distance, but just explosiveness high power to weight ratio, that kind of thing. And so that would be much more like the formula one car, nobody wants to be the economy car, right? No one wants, it's like, 0 (23m 45s): No one, would you go to rent a car? You really don't want to rent the economy car. 1 (23m 49s): Right. I mean, sometimes you do because you don't care. You're going to slow, you know, whatever. But right. Like to tell you, I don't drive. I think, you know what I drive? 0 (24m 2s): I did. I did. Yes. What about the myth around muscle damage required for growth? Let's talk. 1 (24m 9s): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Muscle damage is inversely related to growth. So people used to say, you do like workouts, you tear the muscle and then it repairs itself and gets bigger. So over simplification, it's false. It's oversimplification is another word for wrong. And that's a perfect example of simplifying something to the point where it's just incorrect. So what happens is you can damage a muscle while you're exercising and actually cardio athletes do it more than the strength that like, if you do a muscle cells under a microscope, like a marathon runner cells are destroyed, right? 1 (24m 54s): So their protein synthesis has to do with repairing the muscle, just to bring it back to where it was. In fact lifters too, when they have damaged, they have to repair the muscle to bring it back to where it was. And if they have a really like, like people who like are always trying to mix it up or, you know, what else did they say? The muscle growth, muscle confusion, confusion is absolute bullshit. It never existed. It's an idiotic idea. It was always an idiotic idea. And it's been disproven multiple times. 1 (25m 34s): So what happens is, yeah, they shock the muscle. All right. They create a lot more damage in it. And then the body's repairing the damage and never letting them grow. It's only when you stop damaging your muscle and can still take the muscles to fatigue that you're triggering growth. So the last 60 pounds of muscle that I have gained, which is basically all the muscle I've gained in my life, other than during puberty, that was, I never had soreness, 0 (26m 4s): Never sourced. And I attest to that too. 1 (26m 7s): Yeah. I mean, never, you know, like sometimes like right in here, like, you know, like somebody does a bench press day. Right, right, right. In the chest. Do that, do that to your friend. Yeah. It hurts so bad. Right. Right. And you know, I do that to my friends who work out now and I'm like, yeah, it's cause your workout shit. And by the way, you're still small. Right. 0 (26m 29s): I attest to that. I have not, I've used the X three for a year and a half. Never been sore. I used to be sore all the time and I've put on over five pounds, over five pounds of muscle and I'm actually getting a DEXA scan tomorrow. So I think it's going to be more than that. I haven't gotten one for six months 1 (26m 44s): Before you do the DEXA scheme. Okay. What I want you to do is to do the U S army test and Google. It there'll be a it's on like calculators.net or whatever. It's public information. And there's an equation that takes for males. It's a neck measurement below the larynx. So this is larynx, you know, your Adam's apple right here. So you want to measure you. So you'd get the top of your traps because it's, it's trying to determine your muscularity. Okay. It's actually easy to, it's kind of right. Where my colleague rose for the rugby shirt I'm wearing and then your waist measurement right around your belly button. That's the gotcha. Just two measurements, first thing in the morning. 1 (27m 27s): Okay. Yeah. I mean like literally this, this is the way I think this is the way to test body fat. Also, if you go in your DEXA scan and you drink a bunch of water, like every, I think it's every 16 ounces is like a pound of water. Okay. So like, if you drink like a liter of water, like it'll show that you're you gained a couple of pounds of muscle or are you going dehydrate or show that you lost a couple of pounds of muscle because a Dexascan only determines fat versus whatever's not fat. Right. So like, like I can I take, I took a DEXA scan once I drank two 16 ounce glass of water and it showed, I gained two pounds of muscle. 1 (28m 13s): And I mean, in like the course of 10 minutes. Okay. Yeah. So something to keep in mind. Yeah. 0 (28m 19s): No, I appreciate that. Yeah. And I mean, I can sort of, you know, you can tell, I can tell, I mean, I do, I need a DEXA scan. I think it's just something cool to sort of track progress. 1 (28m 27s): Yeah. Data points are great, but you just got to know the limitations of the data collection apparatus. Why don't 0 (28m 34s): You, why don't, why don't we talk a little bit about protein and the sort of the anabolic window regarding consuming protein and yeah. Your just thoughts about that. I mean, obviously I know you have a product that a fermented protein that you guys sell called , is that correct? That's right. Yep. And I'm doing it right now. There you go. How do you base that? And as far as when you drink that, and you know, when, as far as your protein intake, 1 (29m 4s): So I get one gram per pound of body weight in protein. Now it turns out the, once you get one gram per pound of body weight, and you're going to natural sources also, like I avoid whey protein. That's garbage, only 18% of that is usable by the body. So I see no point in 0 (29m 26s): Even a good quality way. 1 (29m 29s): There's no such thing. Okay. It's like a good quality prostitute. Well, you know, it's just, it's garbage either way you look at it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. There's like ways you, 18 of it is usable by the body. And by the way, way used to be trash. They used to just throw it in landfill. It's, it's a, by-product a waste product of milk production. So the reason it's it became popular was because the price of garbage is close to free. And so they get all these dairies to like give the way, which was just powder, you know, or it was just, you know, kind of a sludge paste that they dehydrated. 1 (30m 15s): And they were like, well, we're going to throw this away, but if you guys want it and your values, it we'll sell it to you for next to nothing. And so that's where we came from. And that was in the eighties, it was a dandy Shane who was like the first one to really go like, look, this stuff is like practically free. Like let's put it to use now. He knew it was garbage quality, but it was cheap. So we could package it and tell bodybuilders is the greatest thing in the world. And because they barely know how to spell, read, or write, it'll be fine. They'll just buy it. And he was right. They just bought it like fools. And you know, you look in a way and like what, like how it's used by a body, only 18% of it is, is, is the proper amino acids. 1 (31m 4s): And then the rest of it is completely unusable. So, you know, you drink like a away shake and then you go to urinate and there's like, foam, it looks at your pink beer, that's nitrogen that's, it's just, it's just waste product. Like all that way just turned into waste. So when, when you, when you get, when you drink two big shades in a day and you think, you know, you, you really got, you know, to like, you know, like a hundred grams of protein, what you really got was 18 grams of protein. And the rest of it just goes right through you 0 (31m 42s): And, and your product Dudgeon is a fermented protein. And how did you come about with that? 1 (31m 49s): Yeah, it was a cancer treatment and it was, it was effectively combating muscle wasting. It's a lot more expensive than way, but you know, it's got to go through a fermentation process. So you get the fermentation grow and the bacteria, you know, growing that have grown meat, which is where we should be getting it. We used to get it, our ancestors got it, but it will grow in just about anything. And so 0 (32m 19s): Where do you go? Where do you get it from? Where do you source it? 1 (32m 23s): It's lab grown. I mean, in a, in a pharmaceutical quality facility. Got it. Yeah. And so we grow the cultures and then once the bacteria dies off and just the bi-product just the fermentation byproducts is left. There. It's completely clean. There's no bacteria left in it at all. And it's the most powerful protein in the world. And like, I can drink, you know, this month, this is a 32 ounce cup. I put 32 ounces of water and four scoops of 40 gin. And that's 200 grams of protein. 1 (33m 6s): And you're drinking that throughout the day. Now, now just takes me about 45 minutes or something. Okay. Yeah. 0 (33m 16s): Got it. What about, I know you, are you still doing, obviously, you're still doing carnivore nice with fasting. Okay. So you're doing one or two meals a day. Oh. So I changed my protocol a little bit. So that's what I figured. We all changed 1 (33m 34s): It over the years. Right? You learn, well, you don't learn. Like I learned a lot from the standard fasting protocols. And as soon as somebody brings something to my attention, then I can potentially learn from, yeah, I'll try it and document it. And then, and I'll do that while I'm pulling together all of the clinical information. And then I'll, I'll kind of report back to everyone in show what I found from a research perspective and from what I observed. But so what's your routine. Know my new protocol, funny thing I developed it because I thought it was easier to follow and I've had nothing but bitching and complaining from a group of people on the internet. 1 (34m 21s): But also you gotta take it with a grain of salt because it's like trolls. Like as soon as you're successful, you have haters. And they're just driven by jealousy. Like trolling is all, all that jealousy. No, nobody, nobody goes and finds like the guy that got last place in Libya, you know, or, you know, the, the baseball team that never made it to the playoffs. And it's just like you idiot to kill yourself. Like no one says that, like the losers are ignored. It's the winners people chase after with hate comments, babe Ruth said the loud boos are, come from the cheap seats. No poor people. 1 (35m 1s): They're losers. And they're angry about being losers. So they got to take it out on, on, on the baseball players in front of himself. You know, I, they had that figured out back then, babe Ruth figured it out and he wasn't a scientist. He was just able to use his eyes. So yeah. The, how did I get on this? Well, you were going to 0 (35m 27s): See, you're telling me about what, what you're eating and fasting. 1 (35m 31s): Oh yeah. Oh my God. I have so many Haynes from the shit. Okay. So I was like, I want to make, I want to come up with a dietary program where maybe I can bring some carbs back in and use them for beneficial reasons. So there's two ways you can use carbohydrates that aren't completely stupid. And just making you fat. One is replenishing muscle glycogen after a resistance training workout. The other one is while you are doing endurance training. So if I had the misfortune of having to run a marathon, right, I've done. 1 (36m 14s): I've done triathlons before. I mean, even though I knew they were completely damaging my body, just so like, it's, you know, like I did it, I tried it that way. Like I also tried veganism. So when somebody was like, well, you've never done this. I, yeah, yeah, I have. So, so I want to be able to say that. So try these things in what I noticed. 0 (36m 37s): So you added back in carbs, what type of carbs did you add in? 1 (36m 42s): So, well, it's more complicated than that. I needed to create a situation where the body would become very depleted because I, the biggest thing, I actually just did a poll on, on the extra users group, tens of thousands of people participating 30,000 members in the extra users group. And so you're in there, 0 (37m 7s): Right? I should be, I should be at the top. Now 1 (37m 11s): We should promote this podcast in there, 30,000 people. And also fanatical. In fact, in fact, there's this Mandalorian thing where sometimes I tell people not to deviate from the program because like, you know, don't make up your own shit. A lot of thought and science went into the right way to do it. Right. And then, you know, I just said, cause I like the Mandalorian. And I just said, this is the way. And then there'll be like 10 guys that are like, this is the way this is the way. And then everybody started calling my fans, the cult. It's like, no, they're just quoting a TV show, but okay. Yeah. I mean, if there's going to be a cult, following people should follow. X-ray like, it's awesome. 1 (37m 55s): And it works anyway. So, so what I, what I ended up, what I ended up doing was I, I wanted to make something that people would actually follow it sort of like what's the best diet. I mean, we can debate about that all day. But ultimate answer is the one people will follow. You can say carnivore and people won't do it. Right. You can say intermittent fasting. People won't do that either. Sure. So, you know, like, like the most Google thing in nutrition and I did an analysis with, with Google. Let me guess, Quito. 1 (38m 36s): No, no, no. It's how to lose weight without changing my diet. 0 (38m 40s): Oh, well I'm not surprised, 1 (38m 44s): Right? It's like, okay, if you're obese and you got that way by eating the way you eat, why would you ever imagine? There was a way you could continue eating in the way that maybe you will be. And all of a sudden you not be, well, everyone wants the magic 0 (39m 3s): Pill. Yeah. Everybody wants the magic pill. 1 (39m 6s): There is no magic pill. And like, if you understand how physiology works, like, like Gabe, if you you're shoveling garbage into the system, right. The body, can't why can't do it. Like if you give the wrong building blocks, it can't build anything. No, go, go to a construction site and say, I'm going to take away all your wood and cement. And just going to give you a nail. Right. Build a house out of that. Yeah. 0 (39m 33s): You didn't need a strong foundation. So what, what did you learn? What did you come up with? 1 (39m 37s): What I tried to do was there was a couple of things. So I thought, okay, how do I amplify the need for carbohydrates? How do I make it? So we deplete more muscle glycogen. Right? Well, there was one way I could think about doing it. And then, then you could get away with having more glycogen or more, you know, more reasons for your body to make like a gin out of glucose. So it, it also happened to be right in line with the way I dropped the most body fat in my life, which was in high school when I rested. 1 (40m 21s): So I wrestled in high school, I was allows the addict, but I liked the conditioning. And mostly because we were dry fasting all the time. So no water, no food. And what happens when you have no water and no food, how does your body get water? Probably takes it from its own. Well say takes it. You're you're 90% there. It takes it from the only tissue in your body. It's not vascular. There's only one kind it's body fat. So it pulls water out of body fat. And when enough water gets pulled out of a fat cell, it destroys itself, less permanent weight loss, or more permanent than just using the energy. 1 (41m 8s): That's in a fat cell that can be replenished the next time you eat. So cause the problem with a lot of fat cells is they do this and then they do this and do this. And then it's like, where are you knowing? That's where you are. So dry fasting. So what I've been doing. Okay. And another thing I noticed, these big changes with like refeeding days and stuff like, which is really just, you know, like somebody's word for like a cheat day. And, and the problem is when you, when you're like, like sugar is as addictive as cocaine, right? 1 (41m 50s): And there's two studies on those two really good studies. It fits all the properties of an addictive drug. It doesn't do the damage as quickly as cocaine, like cocaine will screw your heart up with one use. Like, it'll give you cardiac damage. It'll give you arterial damage too. So really not a fan of that, but sugar's not nearly as bad, but it has the same addictive properties. Like we want it. We think about it all the time. Right. And the more you have it more, you have it, the more you want it. So when people are like, well, what do you do for cheat day? I'm like, do alcoholics do cheat days. You know, anybody, that's an alcoholic. And it's just like, yay. Tomorrow, Sunday. 1 (42m 31s): So I get to do a bunch of heroin tomorrow. Nobody says that that's crazy. It's like you have a sickness, it's an addiction. If you have a problem with, with, you know, nutritional control, the last thing you want to do is feed that, the process that makes you out of control. So just, you know, like either limit or completely get rid of that stuff, but with dry fasting you need in your, in your hydration window. So what I do is I go 20 hours with no food, no water. Okay. Then when I get to the four hours, when I have to, when you're going to want to have to re yeah. 1 (43m 16s): You know, resynthesize like rehydrate and he will now what carbohydrate is a benefit. And so this is also part of like the hyperplasia protocol. So you, you burn up your muscle glycogen when you're exercising, but you want to shove as much glycogen back in as you're recovering. So I eat my 40 grams of glucose tablets before my workout. So like, as I'm working out, it's just ramming back in there and I'm getting like a pump like crazy and I'm rehydrating during this. And so I can have more water and that first step 40 grams, but then I can have a little bit, I can have about half it's about half my body weight. 1 (44m 2s): There was just, I, I, there was a study I was waiting for, which was a meta analysis on this. So putting a bunch of research studies together that was just published a couple months ago, I knew this was coming. So I was like, I can't wait to see what they found and what they found was exactly what I thought they find, which was you can take about half your body weight in pounds in grams of carbohydrates and you won't be able to store body fat without, at all. It just goes right back into muscle glycogen. And you, you, you can do so in an eight hour window, I choose to do it in a four hour window. 0 (44m 40s): Okay. So you're doing a 20 hour dry, fast every day. And then you have a four hour window there and you said you were doing 40 grams of glucose tablets. Right. So putting that in your water when you're sort of, and then you're just chew the tablet, chew the tablets. Okay. And then, and then you do your workout and then, and then you sort of, yeah. Normal, you know, normal dinner and that normal dinner is so it's just carnival. Are you? Or are you okay? 90%. 1 (45m 20s): So, yeah. I mean, there could be some other carbohydrates in there right now. I'm kind of picky about the carbohydrates. Like, like I like rice because it doesn't make you crazy and want like, you know, everything. Yeah. 0 (45m 37s): Not a lot of like anti-nutrients in there. Right. 1 (45m 40s): I got like, I like Indian food, you know? So there's like the heavy cream sauce, which is fine. And then the meat, which is fine and then there's rice. 0 (45m 51s): Okay. Interesting. So, so the dry fast, I mean, I'm, I've just put a disclaimer. I would work your way into something like a dry fast, right? I mean, this is something that evolved over time and you 1 (46m 2s): Did normally, yeah, I do a 48 hour water fast first, but like, and also like a driver, like any, okay. Here's why I do this seven days a week. And I do not deviate because one thing I've noticed, that's a problem with fasting with carnival with all kinds of flexible dieting programs is you're making a massive change to the amount of calories you're taking in which impacts the amount of water you can hold. I mean, even protein is like two grams of water per gram of protein. So you're really screwing with your hydration. 1 (46m 42s): And when people go through these phases and I think it's, I blame bodybuilding for this because in preparation to have contests, there's a lot of periodization of different types of nutrition. So they they're like zero carbohydrate for a couple of months and then just get lean as hell. And then they go back to like, I dunno, it's like 300, 400 grams of carbohydrates a day to try and get a muscle. The muscles just swell with glycogen. And you know, you'd think because that's readily available energy, your body would just feel great in that period of time. Like, they're just supercharged. 1 (47m 22s): Everybody tells me, I feel like absolute garbage. We're stealing them around just like, you're sick. They're like, do I have the what's wrong with me? And here's the problem. Your, your body's always looking for homeostasis. And you're screwing with that so hard when you make these massive changes. And so what I'm trying to do is build a program that you can just do every day and not think about. And then you don't have headaches. You don't have diarrhea. You don't have, you don't feel ill. You don't like, I feel fantastic all day every day because I eat the one meal a day. I have my four-digit at the same time, my hydration has peaks and valleys, but only on a 24 hour scale, which gives me a drive pass, had benefits on burning more body fat, and I'm going to do this. 1 (48m 12s): And I'm also eating at a deficit. So yes. I mean like people were noticing, like my face is getting leaner. Everything's getting, leaners more veins sticking out of me, you know, for those watching on video, you can, you can see that I'm very vascular. So like all these things I'll do this until I run out of body fat to lose. And people always ask me that question, whoa, what's going to happen when you're just out of body fat to burn. And I'm like, yeah, I get that question a lot. But I've never met a person who had that problem. I was going to say never once. 0 (48m 49s): What, what was the different biggest differences between just doing your normal fasting and the dry fast? And what would you say the biggest differences you found? 1 (48m 58s): Oh, it's so some estimate that you burn body about three times faster, it would drive fast thing. There's no real way to prove that. Right. That's just people who are in the fasting lifestyle and sort of the science of fasting that it made those observations. So I really wish they weren't out there like espousing that because there's no way to measure it. And it makes them look like frauds. Now 0 (49m 24s): What about your personal experience? What did you feel different? Yeah, it's right about there what's that 1 (49m 31s): Through experience, but this is just not a good way to measure it also because in like Dexascan is like the gold standard of body composition. But the problem is when you're dehydrated, your DEXA scan looks like you're losing muscle, like crazy, but you're not. So 0 (49m 49s): Did you find it was D did you find your different mentally or did you find it was difficult to do in the beginning? Oh yeah. 1 (49m 56s): No. A mental focus. So for me it was not difficult at all. Like I, so I have an advantage over people, normal people who try this, I understand it scientifically with great proficiency first. So no matter what I feel, I know what's actually happened. No, that's not how most people approach problems. You know, they they're told to do something and they try it and I'm like, well, I don't know. We'll see this goes. And you know, all of a sudden they like have a hiccup literally. And they're like, oh, something's not right. 1 (50m 36s): I should probably eat a pizza. You know, like that, that's how most people behave. But the more that I write about this, more talk about it, the more podcasts I'm on, the more people are going to go. Okay. Yeah. I mean, like I tried that I screwed it up. I'm going to do it right this time. 0 (50m 54s): Okay. So you didn't, so it didn't take you that long to get used to it. Interesting. Not at 1 (50m 59s): All. No. In fact, I, now that I've done dry fasting, I will never not drive that never do now also. So like once a month I liked doing a 72 hour fast to completely regenerate my, my white blood cells. Like T-cells I do a dry, so no liquid three days, no food, three days, you know, it's really weird. Nothing bad happens, you know, just feel absolutely fantastic. 0 (51m 33s): One last point I wanted to touch on growth hormone increase. Can you explain yeah. That with, with the X three and how that can trigger that. 1 (51m 43s): So the only meta analysis I have ever performed and will ever perform because they sock to right. Like, cause those who doesn't don't know what a meta analysis is. If you take all studies on one subject and you have to be very careful with the inclusion and exclusion criteria of what studies you want to look, cause that can bias you resolve like, like a lot of nutritional meta-analyses like, if you look at the inclusion and exclusion criteria, and then you look at the funding source and it was like the Biscoe you're like, oh yeah, right, yeah. Got it. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. 1 (52m 24s): Or Nabisco also funds a lot of like institutes of nutrition. Right. Solely. So, you know 0 (52m 32s): Yeah. Whenever you see a study, you got to see who's funding. So yeah. Yeah, 1 (52m 38s): Yeah. So, so I did this meta analysis, but I didn't have any bias in my inclusion and exclusion criteria. What I did was I looked at studies, but destabilize the body, usually with whole body vibration. And so that's a consistent stimuli making the body unstable. Right. And what did that do with the blood work that was done pre and post and what did that do pre and post six months, would it do pre and post 10 minutes later? Like what, what was the result? Ultimately in every study growth hormone went up massively, especially those that added load with the stability firing. 1 (53m 21s): So if I stand on one leg and bend my there, there's stability firing. Right. But if I stand on one leg and bend my knee and I'm on an x-ray and I'm holding a bar across my shoulders, that's got 200 pounds on it and I'm doing a one legged squat. My growth hormone is going through the roof. The along with load instability plus loading. Yeah. Is 0 (53m 49s): That why you came out with that vibration plate? 1 (53m 52s): That's right, right. Cause the further amplify the effect. No, actually does it on its own. Right. But when you do X three under vibration, then it's a tremendous yeah. 0 (54m 3s): Wow. Okay. Yeah. I was curious about that. Well, yeah, this was, this was good. Some new stuff from the last time we talked. Yeah, this is great. I'll I'll end with one last question I asked you at the last time, which was like seven months ago, what would you give one tip to an individual maybe in their forties and fifties and sixties that wanted to get their body back to what it once was maybe 10, 15, 20 years ago. What would you give that one? Tip? You'd give that person. 1 (54m 36s): I tell him to read my book, which I didn't have seven months ago or did I know it might've and you might adjust. 0 (54m 47s): Yeah, I was gonna say, I think it was just out. Cause I remember. Yeah. 1 (54m 50s): Cause I, I think it was, yeah, it was like September when the book came out. Okay. So yeah. That makes sense. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. Just like I put all the answers in the book and I've never met a post person that actually read the book that wasn't a raving fan. Now there's people who buy the book and don't know what's in it and don't read it and bitch about it. But you know, or, or my, my favorite criticism, it's, it's just a commercial for his product. And I'm like, okay, I described the rationale, but I didn't put like a discount code in there. Right. Like, I don't know, like books are written about subjects that often involve people going out and buying stuff. 1 (55m 33s): So that's just life, 0 (55m 36s): Right? No, there's plenty of science and you talk and you get into nutrition. There's plenty of that. 1 (55m 41s): There's there's 250 scientific references in there. Right. And it's a 265 page book. 0 (55m 49s): Well, Dr. Jake wish this was fun. 1 (55m 53s): Awesome. Thanks for having me again. This was good. 0 (55m 56s): I appreciate it. And a lot of good info and thanks so much. Hey, get lean, eat clean nation. Are you a man between the ages of 40 and 60 years old looking to lose inches around your waist have significantly more energy throughout the day and gain muscle all while minimizing the risk of injuries? Well, I'm looking for three to five people to work one-on-one with in my fat burner blueprint signature program, which I've developed by utilizing my 15 years experience in the health and fitness space. This program is designed specifically for those committed, to making serious progress towards our health goals. Over the next six months, we will focus on sleep, stress, nutrition, meal, timing, and building lean muscle. 0 (56m 43s): If this sounds like a fit for you, email firstname.lastname@example.org with the subject line blueprint. That's email@example.com with the subject line blueprint. Thanks for listening to the get lean eat clean podcast. I understand there are millions of other podcasts out there and you've chosen to listen to mine. And I appreciate that. 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