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0 (1s): Coming up on the get lean, eat clean podcast, 1 (3s): Like pasture raised eggs. You're looking at oily cold water fish. They call it the smash family that stands for salmon, mackerel and Chavez, sardines, and herring. And guess what these happened to be quite inexpensive, quite available. And they are among the most nutritious foods on the planet. If you want to go buy some grass liver, probably on the internet, because it's difficult to find at the local store. It's cheap because no one wants it. It's not as, it's not as popular as the Philemon own. So on a budget, you can have an incredibly nutrient dense diet of the true superfoods of the planet and not worry about busting the bank. Hello and welcome to the get gasoline 2 (45s): Eat clean podcast. I'm Brian grin, and I'm here to give you actionable tips to get your body back to what it once was five, 10, even 15 years ago each week. I'll give you an in-depth interview with a health expert from around the world to cut through the fluff and get you long-term sustainable results. This week I interviewed podcast hosts, best-selling author and the number three world ranked masters track and field high jumper, Brad 0 (1m 11s): Kearns. We discussed high performing as a 50 plus athlete. The importance of walking intermitted, eating along with eating nutrient dense foods. The advantage of eating two meals a day, eating healthy on a budget, the three most offensive foods you must avoid and Brad's most beneficial workouts. So this was an entertaining interview with Brad Kearns. The second time around. I know you'll enjoy it. Thanks so much for listening and enjoy the interview. All right, welcome to the get lean eat clean podcast. My name is Brian grin, and I have a repeat guest from when I first started my podcast and that is podcast hosts, New York bestselling author, world record speed golf, Brad Kearns. 1 (1m 57s): Gosh, what an honor to be a repeat guest. Brian, that is so exciting right on. And I remember our, our show is when you were just getting off the ground and doing this ambitious project or starting a podcast, I said, you're, you're the guy for it. Someone's got to, someone's got to talk. And now my gosh, I love your social media effort. You're getting the word out. I love the content. And we, we were talking off, off recording a little bit about how we're kind of both on that, on that path, that goal of, you know, going through the age groups gracefully as, as aging males and not joining the pack of this disastrous decline into a softy Crip at old age, that's happening around us when you don't do anything about it. 1 (2m 41s): So, you know, we're getting into the research, the diet, the exercise strategies to kind of delay this aging process, to the extent that really our birthdays are a very minor aspect of the overall picture of how our functionality is our peak performance and all these things. 0 (2m 57s): Well, yeah, it's interesting if you watch golf Phil Mickelson. Oh 1 (3m 1s): My gosh. Funny, you should mention that. Huh? One of the greatest 50 plus athletic performances of all time, it's a miracle. 0 (3m 10s): Yeah. And that was a, I think he had quite, quite the following. I think everyone was cheering rooting for Phil to win at 50 the PGA championship. And it's interesting. I actually listened to his interview after his, his, and he really talked about how he's really dialed in mentally, you know, the physical part. He, you know, he did as well. I know he does some fasting and he's lost some weight, but the mental part as well. And we'll, we'll definitely touch on, on, on sort of the mental hurdles that you have to jump and almost have to dial and even more as you get older. 1 (3m 43s): Yeah. Well, it's interesting to read his comments and talk about his resets and his lengthy fast. And I think they go hand in hand, like, you know, he's talking about getting his mind, right. And if you can develop the discipline to do something, even as simple as fasting for 36 hours, I mean, that's quite a long time. I don't think a lot of people are going to raise their hand and say, yeah, I do an occasional 36 hour facet. It's tough, man. Maybe that's going from dinner all the way through the next day, going to bed hungry and waking up and having breakfast. But when you're in that groove, rather than Phil's groove of a guy who's incredibly wealthy, one of the wealthiest athletes of all time, fine round on his private jet, he's a superstar. 1 (4m 26s): He can do whatever he wants every day. He doesn't have to work hard anymore on golf. He's had amazing career, but you know, he obviously turned a corner with all aspects of his life. And I think when you let's say, look at your diet as a weak spot and you start to put in some disciplines, guidelines, boundaries, it can, it can ooze into all other areas of life. And I'm, I'm really big on that concept. Cause I feel like my cold exposure regimen, my morning fitness routine, these things have been kind of pillars to help me stay focused or improve other areas of my, of my aspects. Like the, the daily Workday, you know, I get distracted easily. 1 (5m 10s): I like to watch YouTube videos of high jumpers and look at their technique instruction when I'm supposed to be working on a book or my email inbox is filling up and all, we fight all these battles. And so when we kind of can do anything that helps improve our focus, discipline resilience, we get, we get a boost in all areas. 0 (5m 28s): Yeah. It's interesting. You bring up the high jump. I wanted to talk about that. You recently, right. Set the record for the highest jump for 55 to 59 year old. Is that right? I'm in 1 (5m 40s): The 55 to 59 category and I'm not the world's, you know, a natural high jumper. I wasn't like a college jumper who still does it for fun. I was an endurance athlete, but I've always been fascinated by this event and it requires explosiveness and power and things that, you know, don't come naturally to me and my endurance athletic background, but it's so fun and so challenging. And so that's been my main athletic focus for the last year and a half or so. And I got on the ranking board. So that's what I'm, I'm touting it as far as, as far as it'll take me. And I had the, I had the top jump in that age division last year and then COVID came. So 0 (6m 19s): The top jump in the U S right? Yeah. In the U S 1 (6m 22s): Yeah. And, and third in the world. But you know, now with all the meats coming back, everyone's going to be jumping higher. And the more I brag about it, I'm sure there's, there's old high jumpers listening, going, I'm going to go after that guy. So I gotta, I gotta get my, a game on and continue to continue to raise the bar. So there's the analogy for everything in life, especially in our age group. And you know, my reference point of being back in my twenties, I was a pro athlete for nine years. It consumed my life, right. I just trained and ate and slept as a triathlete. And it was a great phase of life, but of course, something like that has to come to an end. It was very, you know, grueling and exhausting and time consuming. 1 (7m 3s): And it's a wonderful memory, but I think a lot of us have our story of back in the day. You know, I played a little ball for Northwestern. I was the fifth string quarterback, and now all they do is talk about it and watch TV. And so I think we can all reference that athlete deep inside of us and take it forward and figure out something that lights you up even today with whatever lifestyle circumstances you have and go forward and try to focus on something and have that blended into this comfortable, luxurious, modern lifestyle that many of us live where we don't have to ask anything of our bodies or even our competitive mindset ever. If we don't, if we're not careful, we just kind of fade into a life of leisure. 0 (7m 46s): Yeah. It's interesting. You bring that up because I think that's so key, whether you're trying to do something like an athletic endeavor like you did, or even just losing weight, you always see this, people have people that have a wedding that's like six months away that they're going to win and that's their landmark. And, and so I think it's good to have like some type of, I don't know, a date set where there's, whether it's a competition or some type of, you know, if you got to make it up, make it up, but, but try to have something where that you're, you're a goal that you're working towards. And I think that will help motivate you and get you there. 1 (8m 20s): Man, our, our buddy Brian, the liver king Johnson at ancestral supplements is promoting this ancestral lifestyle, including integrating things that are challenging and difficult. And he's a big cold plunging guy and extreme strength training, you know, freak of nature who works super hard every day, building a business as well as in the gym and putting himself under, you know, resistance load and, and trying to get more powerful. And his quote that, that he promotes is to do something that scares the shit out of you every day. And boy, we've lost this connection to our ancestral past is, is the big point that they're making with their, their supplements that you should take as the modern diet is so devoid of nutrition, but also we've lost that connection in so many ways where we faced harsh circumstances every day or frequently that made us tougher and stronger. 1 (9m 11s): And, and you know, that that's kind of what modern fitness goals and even athletic competition is trying to simulate. When we go and play on the senior tennis ladder at the country club, we're trying to get that, you know, that I have the tiger going and that, that, that juices flowing that make you feel alive. And so that's kinda the main message that I'm promoting is like, let's get out there and pursue peak performance with passion throughout life and just figure out something, I love your idea of making up a date because we do have to orchestrate these things in many ways, because life is so easy. One of the things I've been talking about recently is this obligation to walk more in daily life. 1 (9m 53s): And so if you live in Manhattan or something where people are obligated to walk, because the cars aren't easy and they put in three or four or five miles every single day, but a lot of us are in the automobile life. And so, you know, park park park a half mile from your kid's elementary school, get the heck out and hope it in. And then you're gonna, you're gonna skip the, the, the drop-off line anyway, which takes 15 minutes because there's so many cars coming. And so anything you can do to kind of make sure that you're, you're obligated and you have commitments and habits in place, those are gonna be big wins because otherwise we're, the momentum is going to suck us into the Netflix queue at night, instead of having a nice after dinner stroll to go see the sunset from the point, which is nine tenths of a mile from your house, that's what we want to, that's what we want to lock into place and make it an automatic behavior rather than, Hey, do you feel like going tonight now? 1 (10m 51s): I'm kind of busy. I got to get back on email. Well then you're, you're, you're gonna, you're going to be thrown off track so many times. Yeah, 0 (10m 59s): No, it's a great point. I mean, I, I actually talk about walking more than I probably would ever think. I would. I mean, I think it's such a great thing to do after a meal and to get into that habit, you know, to, to go for a walk after a meal. I mean, we've seen with the pandemic, a lot of people actually bought, got hit, got dogs, adopted dogs. And so that'll get you out and going, but like, just even an app, like you said, an after dinner walk, not only does that just get you out of the house and out of the kitchen, because a lot of times that extra snacking can happen after dinner, but, you know, going for a walk, we we've seen studies show that, right. It can blunt the insulin levels, blood, you know, blood glucose levels and, and yeah, just, I mean, just for overall joint health and, you know, just get you out of the kitchen, right. 1 (11m 48s): Get you into that fresh air, open space away from artificial light. It's a great to wind down and kind of transition into the, the, the, the easy, relaxing part of the evening where you're to digest were stimulation, help with digestion too, right? Oh, for sure. Yeah. And there's, there's one study that says walk of one mile per hour for 15 minutes, which is barely moving. Right. I mean, that's just the most easiest role. You can imagine it blunts the glucose spike by 50% after a meal. And so, yeah, we really like to, our bodies love to walk after the meal rather than sit and getting outside fresh air. 1 (12m 28s): Great idea. You know, a lot of times of the year it's cooler than your indoor environment. So getting out into a little bit of chili air and breathing and looking at the stars or whatever is a great way to, to cap a busy stressful day. 0 (12m 44s): Yeah. And I was looking at your book that you guys, you and mark system recently came out with two meals a day and such great principles that, you know, anyone listening can follow. And I, you know, I wrote some of those. So I think it would be great to go through those and just touch on that. Cause it'll give you a sort of a good blueprint to follow, even if you just take one of them and implement it. But I noticed one of them was, and we'll talk about mindset, but you know, obviously nutrient eating, emphasizing nutrient dense foods. This is something we keep hearing all about along with intermittent eating. I like that instead of intermittent fasting, intermittent eating and, and, and the fact that you guys, I think it was brilliant. 0 (13m 31s): He came out with a book, two meals a day. I was like, when you heard the title, I was like, that's just another way of saying something, but it's just a smart way to go. I think, I think two meals a day is, I dunno if there's an optimal, but it's, I think it's something that everybody can do. 1 (13m 48s): That's funny for a long time, I'm going to tell you a secret backstage story. I was arguing that I wanted to call the book, the 1.5 diet, which is half, you know, cutting and half are three meals a day. This cultural notion that's been entrenched since the industrial revolution, really. And it's ridiculous that we need to feed ourselves on a clock at regular intervals. And so we're, we're going back to our ancestral past, and we're saying, look, the, you know, the eating the food was, was never a guarantee. And we should be really good at maintaining energy mood focus, cognitive performance, whether or not we sit down and eat a regular meal and that's becoming metabolically flexible, another popular term that's being bantered around. 1 (14m 31s): But yeah, assistant made up that term, intermittent eating, and it does draw a contrast to this, you know, th this, this popular notion that we're, that that fasting is a big thing or skipping a meal because obviously, you know, ideally it would be what you eat when you're hungry or you eat. When you want to have a celebratory event. After a busy, stressful day, you sit down with the family, have a nice dinner, talk it over, prepare the meal together, all these wonderful things that we've kind of pushed aside in favor of clicking the button on the app to have someone drive to your house. And you don't have to, you don't have to lift a finger anymore. You just have to open the door and then start eating. 1 (15m 12s): So this, this massive cultural trend of eating too much food is being identified as the number one problem. And I think it's important to put into the mix. We're choosing bad foods. Of course, we all know that we want to clean up our diet and get rid of the processed foods, but we're also eating too frequently. And what we've seen, especially in the keto space, as it's become insanely popular trendy diet is people that are, you know, looking at the, the macronutrient profile of a food. And, oh, it's a thumbs up. It's a keto food. These keto potato chips are approved. So is this keto energy bar. 1 (15m 52s): And so they're making an effort it's well intentioned, but then they're reaching and snacking for stuff all day long. And as we know from great work, Dr. Kate Shanahan promotes this message a lot that anytime you eat anything, even if it's a super duper keto approved, friendly snack, you immediately shut off fat burning and shut off ketone production in favor of burning the calories that you just consume. You got to work through those in your bloodstream. If it's sugar, sometimes we have a big, a big problem because we're going to get a sugar spike and insulin rush. But even if it's a, a high-fat snack of wonderful celery sticks smothered in Brad's macadamia masterpiece, it's got, you know, five stars for the nutritional content, but it's still taking you out of fat burning mode and into processing the calories. 1 (16m 41s): And then maybe perhaps going down that slippery slope of having a tendency to overeat, because we're eating these high reward, you know, high stimulating foods. And that's the other big problem is anything that's processed. Anything that combined sugar and fat in a manner that's completely unnatural to, to the, you know, the, the ancestral experience. These kind of set us up for anal lifestyle of overeating because the food is so good. What can you say? I mean, I'm, you know, if someone serves me a homemade cheesecake, I'm like, dang, this is good. And I will say I had one on my birthday several months ago and I was with my daughter or celebrating, and you fall asleep halfway, halfway through the dessert. 1 (17m 25s): She's like, dad, you're crushing that thing. I'm like, oh, sure. So I had to slow down because if I don't eat these things very frequently and someone gives me one, oh boy, I, I can crush it. And so being mindful of, you know, the, the nutrient content of your foods to go back to your original tee up here, when you eat something that's extremely nutrient dense, it's really satisfying. You don't have as much of a tendency to overeat it because you feel great after having a three egg, a four egg omelet with the avocado sliced on top and salsa and melted cheese and whatever you like, you get up and you go, wow, that was fantastic, but you're not inclined to go and have another on let an hour later in contrast to whatever it is, your energy bar habit or your, your sweets and treats in the evening or things that are so easy to overeat. 1 (18m 15s): And, and then have these things kind of locked into your diet because they're hard to eliminate. 0 (18m 20s): Yeah. And, and excuse me, I agree. I always talk about it. If you're gonna go periods of time without eating, you want to really make sure that that meal that you have is satiating. What's your, I know, I know you have that nutrient density chart, right? You have like a carnival or a chart. I've, I've definitely used that as a reference. And I recommend people listening to check that out on, you know, Brad kearns.com. And I notice why don't we touch on maybe what, w w what are the, like the five, five winners that you'd say are for nutrient density, people are going to have a meal. What would you, what would you want to reach towards? 0 (19m 0s): Yeah, 1 (19m 0s): Thanks. It's called the carnivores scores chart. So it's really honoring this recent explosion of the carnivore diet, carnivores ish diet. And we know that people are healing really well when they eliminate all manner of plant toxins and do an experimental period where they're doing this, this animal based diet. I think there's a little bit of confusion and distortion where people are like, that's crazy. What do you mean no more kale salad or, or, or berries. And it's, it's not meant to be some kind of a freak thing. It's a legit strategy, especially if you have plant sensitivities. So now that people are interested and, and looking into this, this strategy more, we have this concept of eating nose to tail animal foods, and re-introducing things that were a centerpiece of the ancestral diet. 1 (19m 52s): Dr. Cate Shanahan, deep nutrition has been talking about this for that book was published 12 or 13 years ago. And it was a real awakening for me because she's saying like, here are the major ancestral categories of food that fueled human evolution. One of them is called Oregon meats, and I'm like, dang, my organ meat game is low. I'm not eating any liver or heart or kidney, or, you know, having servings of bone marrow in my daily diet, I'm eating a lot of healthy foods. I'm getting the grass fed beef in the pasture raised eggs, but it was a huge void for me. So I had to awaken to this idea that, you know, something like bone broth, which is a major product category. Now it wasn't 10 years ago, but this has nutrients that are found almost nowhere else in today's modern human diet, the collagen protein, the glycosaminoglycans these agents that support joint health and connective tissue health. 1 (20m 42s): So we have to make this effort to broaden our concept of what healthy eating is. And that's kind of where the chart in and this, this carnivore diet is gaining popularity. And so, you know, at the, at the very top is liver arguably the most nutrient dense food on the planet. And it's a good concept to consider when we have so much controversy, confusion, we have the battling back and forth with the very loud and strong plant-based community, arguing that, you know, this is, this is the way to go. And these other people are crazy and they're going to drop dead of a heart attack because they're eating too many, too many eggs and, and things that have been strongly refuted by a respected science, with huge, you know, study groups. 1 (21m 23s): And so we're going to put liver up there. We're going to put things like oysters. We're going to put things like salmon, eggs, or caviar of as the most nutrient dense foods on the planet. And then you're also looking at things like pasture raised eggs. You're looking at oily cold water fish. They call it the smash family that stands for salmon, mackerel and Chavez, sardines, and herring. And guess what these happen to be quite inexpensive, quite available. And they are among the most nutritious foods on the planet. If you want to go buy some grass fed liver, probably on the internet, because it's difficult to find at the local store. It's cheap because no one wants it. It's not as, it's not as popular as the Philemon Yoan so on a budget, you can have an incredibly nutrient dense diet of the true superfoods of the planet and not worry about busting the bank. 1 (22m 14s): If you're going to go get a red meat. Yes, we want to have grass fed sustainably raised same with anything in the foul category, chicken and pork. If you look on the chart, the carnivores scores, ranking chart, they're below a grass fed beef because the typically the nutrient profile is vastly inferior due to the way that they raise modern day pork and chicken. So if you're going to have bacon or anything from the, from the, the pork animal, when you watch the movie and get grossed out by the nasty pig farms and the mistreatment of the animals, we want to go and looking for heritage breed pork, because that implies that the animal was raised in a sustainable humane manner. Same with a pasture raised chicken, which is much more difficult to find than drops, stopping. 1 (22m 58s): I don't know if they have those, what, what do they call it? Oh, Chick-Filet, I don't know if they have those in the Chicago area, but like we drive by and the cars are a line through the driveway and out into the street lining up for this, this super super, I guess it's must taste pretty good, but this diet fast food, you know, we're getting the, the worst quality animal and the people who are against that have have a legitimate point. So we want to have sustainably raised animals and go, you know, go big the foods that give us the most bang for our buck. And especially if there's holes and voids in your diet, we're big fans of taking the Oregon supplements. So if you're listening to this show and you're thinking, dang, how am I going to fry up a liver and put that into my daily diet? 1 (23m 44s): I don't even like the taste of it. You can certainly supplement with, with well chosen strategy there and, you know, shore up that area of your diet, get the bone broth in there with eggs. I think that's the best example of increased value and increased nutrient quality. If you go from a conventional egg to a pasture raised egg, and now vital farms seems like they're distributing in any supermarket, you're going to find a true pasture raised, certified humane egg. And those a dozen of those maybe costs six, seven bucks, something like that instead of three bucks, but you're getting an egg that possibly has, you know, 20 times more omega-3 content because the chicken was afforded its natural diet and it's eating grass and bugs and worms and things that make it a healthy animal rather than an animal who's stuck in a coop eating feed all day and lays an egg. 1 (24m 34s): And boy, these things can make a big difference over time. 0 (24m 40s): Yeah, no that you summed it up really well there. 1 (24m 43s): Notice, I didn't mention, I didn't mention any plant foods. So this chart is especially geared toward people who are going for this animal-based diet emphasis, but down in the, in the bottom, there's a nice grid of the least offensive plant foods. And this is a, an awakening to me, cause I thought, you know, we've been telling people to eat their greens and their cruciferous vegetables and all these things that have a lot of nutritional benefit, but they also have a lot of antigens or anti-nutrients in there. So, you know, I was making these, these super-duper power green smoothies for a while years ago. And I would throw in a whole bunch of raw kale, spinach, celery, beets, and carrots and protein powder and almond milk and whatever else was in there. 1 (25m 30s): So I was getting this massive dose of raw leafy green plant matter. And the other things I mentioned. And so this was a concentration of all these agents that are very difficult to digest. And actually they're, they're, they're minor poisons that stimulate an antioxidant response in the body, but they can also cause a leaky gut, which is such a huge health problem today. And so here's the thing, Brian, I was drinking down the smoothie and for the next two or three or four hours, I would reliably have a little bit or a lot of bloating, transient abdominal pain, where I just have a sharp little pain going up the stairs. 1 (26m 10s): And then it went away. I'd have gas, I'd have sort of a, an uncomfortable feeling in my digestive tract. And it was just seemed like a natural, normal part of life because I've had gas, bloating and transient abdominal pain and associated with meals for decades and all of us have. And so I didn't pay much attention to it. Some days it was really bad. And I had to hang on my yoga apparatus, where you put your hands on the bar and you can go upside down and then things would start to feel better. And I'd go about my day. And I was talking to another athletic, a friend of mine who was making the green smoothie. And he goes, yeah, you know, my stomach blows up every day too, but it's worth it. 1 (26m 50s): And his comment stopped me in my tracks. And I said, wait a second. If something's extremely healthy for you, which is the only reason we're making this green concoction, I wouldn't say it was delicious. It was okay. But if something's that healthy for you, it shouldn't cause gas, bloating, transient, abdominal pain. It just doesn't make sense to the rational thinking brain. And that's when I started to awaken further to this idea that maybe these, these superstar plants like kale, like spinach, they there, those are the ones with the highest levels of oxalates and them, which are causing all kinds of problems, especially in sensitive people. Some of these things can damage thyroid function and you go down the list of the various plant foods that are popular and they can be real irritants to sensitive people or minor irritants to people that aren't super sensitive. 1 (27m 41s): But people like me where it's like, what am I doing drinking this thing. That's blowing up my stomach every day. Yeah. And 0 (27m 47s): I think like, like you mentioned, I mean, if you have this every once in a while, it's probably not a big deal. Right. But if you're having that green smoothie every day, it's going to add up. 1 (27m 59s): Yeah, that's right. And our tolerance goes down. And then what happens is we become sensitive to a variety of other foods that might otherwise be okay. So if you have like this grain based diet where you're slamming gluten down your throat for years and decades, starting when you're seven and mommy gives you the, the cheese and crackers in your, in your school lunch, and you're just, you know, traumatizing your inflammatory and autoimmune responses a little bit every single day, your whole life, you're going to run out of gas when you're 23 or 31. And you're going to start to, you know, have to go to the doctor for your, your indigestion and your abdominal pain. So it's been a great awakening for people to exclude these things. 1 (28m 41s): And I would say that was not a big deal for me when I started to experiment with this carnival ish eating pattern. But what I noticed was the increased nutrient density because I was putting aside some of these things that have a lot of bulk, but you know, they're, they're not feeling they don't have as much nutrition. So you take an egg or a few ounces of liver or a cup of bone broth, Matt Whitmore in the UK fit in London. He's got me putting in, you know, four or five egg yolks into the bone broth, stir that thing up. Now I have a true superfood meal. If that's going to be something I choose in 0 (29m 18s): The most, are you making your own bone broth? 1 (29m 21s): Well, I have before, but it's much easier to go. And these products, the way you can tell a quality bone broth in the store is it ain't cheap. So you're spending eight or nine bucks for basically what amounts to a one day serving, but it is a true superfood. So I'm going to budget for that, you know, regularly and people can make their own bone broth, very inexpensively because the best material to make bone broth is really cheap. You can go to the butcher and say, Hey, can I have some knuckles? You know, the, the joint of the cow and you soak those for 48 hours and you have yourself a really nice homemade bone broth. It's kind of fun to know that you make something at home. My favorite thing to make at home is kombucha. So I'm like the kombucha king and I have like three gallons going at any one time. 1 (30m 3s): And then I second ferment them with an assorted fun flavors. So I'm getting this lemon lime kombucha that I, that I love to drink and mix with bubbly water. So I have like this really effervescent delicious drink. That's given me a nice dose of probiotics every day. So that's kind of fun. 0 (30m 21s): Yeah. We've been making a beef jerky. We got a dehydrator. Yeah. I recommend it. It's so easy. We were spending so much money on like, you know, this grass fed really high quality. You know, you, you buy like one ounce, it's like six bucks or like, it just gets a little obscene after a while, but you buy your own, you know, I got a couple pounds of what kind of, was it round straight, there's certain round steak. There's certain meats that you want to get, but there was grass fed grass finished, you know, for two pounds, it was whatever $26. And then it makes a ton of, of beef jerky. And it's really easy to use a dehydrator. I mean, you do not need to be a, a, a world-class chefs. 1 (31m 3s): Oh, that's great. Yeah. That's, what's fun getting further into this stuff. And I, you know, I associate with, with regular people too, as you do where they're just trying to get through the day they're busy, they're not obsessed with diet and nutrition science and emerging health. And so they asked me, you know, for quick tips and I, I, this, this comes to mind right now is something to, to, to throw into the conversation. It's like most people still have these, what we call the big three, most offensive, toxic modern foods. And these are refined sugars, grains, and industrial seed oils. And I should even emphasize the industrial seed oils. That's the number one most offensive and, and health destructive food that we consume in, in vast amounts in everyday diet. 1 (31m 49s): So the first thing we have to focus on is hopefully a total elimination of these big three most defensive, modern foods. And then we can start asking about how to, you know, make the bone broth the beef jerky liver. Yeah. And not, not to get overwhelmed. Right. So if you're, if you're taking baby steps, whatever works for you as a personality attribute, I'm kind of a cold Turkey guy. So, you know, I've, I've hung up from podcasts and gone, okay, I'm going to try this corner of our thing. Now, you know, after, after decades of whatever, having, you know, this, this plant heavy salad is the centerpiece of my diet for whatever 20 years. 1 (32m 30s): And now all of a sudden I'm going to not have a salad for, I haven't had a salad in two and a half years, Brian, it's like a, it's been a major awakening. 0 (32m 37s): I've been at the same way. I used to have a big in the middle of the day and I sort of just transitioned out of it. I used. Yeah. And I mean, I never had really like necessarily issues, you know, maybe a little bloating and things like that, but I know people who've had like eczema and skin issues and things and other things. And, but no, I, yeah, I eat the carnival Irish as well. And that's not to say, I don't think that you can have plans from time to time. I mean, I'll have onions and mushrooms. Occasionally. I know I have some, I splurge my splurges probably nut butters. I've had years. I found some cool, some sprouted ones as well, which is something you can do with right bread with a lot of these foods that maybe have some anti-nutrients in them is a ferment or sprout, or so if you still want to implement them into your diet, 1 (33m 29s): Especially cooking them. Right. So those, those, those giant leaves going into the raw smoothie is a lot more difficult to digest than even just, you know, pan frying your kale or whatever it is that you insist upon eating because you love it. And so that's a good point to throw in there. It's like, we also want to enjoy our lives and make these wonderful preparations that tastes good and then will keep us locked in. So, and I put on my Instagram and assortment of meals and, you know, I like these little mini corn tortillas, the street taco type of thing. And I got, I noticed that these tastes good, not only with eggs, but with steak. And so you'll find those on my plate quite frequently. 1 (34m 11s): And I don't really care that they're not a perfect score because most of my meal is, is coming from these nutrient dense foods. And then I'm having the accoutrements that, that don't bother me. Right. So we have to do some experimenting too. And I'd say, hold here for a commercial, anybody who's listening that has any form of nagging inflammatory or auto-immune condition, whatever it is, if you get the watery eyes and you have to go get eye drops, or if you, you know, your, your skin tingles or you have reaction after eating certain foods, these are the things that require an experimental phase of, you know, a food restriction diet, and then determine what your main sensitivities are. 1 (34m 52s): You can even try to add back, add things back in over time, if you want, and you really miss your evening slice of cheesecake. Okay, well, let's, let's stop eating cheesecake for a month and see how much better you feel. And maybe that thing shouldn't come back except for cameos on your birthday. But that that's the strategy here is to kind of refine and test. And I think diet is getting more personalized these days, which is kind of the, I think that's where the, the industry is headed really is not, you know, slamming things over your head like, Hey, this is the south beach diet, and this is what you're going to eat every day. And this is a, this is your breakfast, and this is your lunch. Those days are gone. I think now we have to kind of back up a few steps and just be more mindful about what works for us. 1 (35m 33s): And that's why, you know, the, the title two meals a day was a pretty attempt to say, look, the first thing we got to do is cut out the junk food. And the second thing is to acknowledge that we eat too much fricking food all day long, whatever it is, don't, don't, don't show me how good it is just to kind of step back and try to get better at burning fat and, and skipping meals and feeling great. 0 (35m 56s): Yeah. And, you know, we've touched a lot on nutrition and, you know, I think we both agree that if you want to get to a certain place health wise, it's probably 80% when you're eating and what you're eating. What about touching it? And we talked about this a little bit off, off the camera, but I know you had an interview with Herman ponsor regarding calorie burning and, you know, energy expenditure and working out. Cause I'm, we're both active individuals. What w w what did you gain from that interview and, and his whole thesis? 1 (36m 34s): I gained a massive amount of confusion in my head because we're now kind of flipping the foundational premises of the fitness industry and the diet industry on their heads once. And for all, I mean, these notions have been around and I've been exposed to this idea of the, the compensation theory of exercise, the constrained model of energy expenditure, but basically to, to summarize this, this, this idea here that's presented really well in Dr. book called burn, is that we kind of have a, a fixed number of calories that we burn every day. 1 (37m 14s): And it doesn't change much at all, whether or not we exercise. And so this idea that we burn the same number of calories every day, whether or not we did our workout is a real mindblower. And it's strongly validated by his life's work. He's an evolutionary anthropologist whose expertise is in the area of a calorie burning. So this guy knows what he's talking about. He's not a diet pitch man saying that you, you know, if you, if you eat fruit in the, in the morning and, and a protein in the afternoon, you're gonna, you're gonna boost your metabolism. So all of these concepts of boosting one's metabolism by doing a bunch of little workouts or one huge workout, or what are you eating this way or that way, or all nonsense. 1 (37m 58s): And so if you kind of step into it with this mindset, that it's really not about burning extra calories to drop excess body fat, it's more about hormone optimization. Luckily, I went through all of our, our old books and we haven't really directly countered this. We've been on the safe side with the notion that, you know, we're making good food choices and allowing these things to play out naturally, such as, you know, allowing our, our natural appetite to guide our eating decisions. And when you're cutting out those hyper palatable foods that cause you to eat too much, you're going to have a natural calibration to eating the optimal amount of, but it's not about your aggressive calorie burning during workouts. 1 (38m 40s): That's not going to be the missing piece that works for you. And I think it can have people sort of relax and breathe a sigh of relief that they can get of this, this dysfunctional mindset that equates calorie consumption with calorie burning. Right? So if you, if you eat that cheesecake and then you go out and run three laps around the street at nine 30 at night, it's not gonna matter, sweetie. It doesn't eat the cheesecake that's affecting your appetite. Hormones might affect your consumption habits the next day, unless you resolve to do a fast and get back into, you know, a good fat burning mode. But I don't know if I explained that in, in as much detail as you want, but it's a pretty, pretty cool insight. 1 (39m 20s): Yeah. So the compensation theory is if you do go and burn calories like crazy, you wake up at 6:00 AM and you do your spin class three days a week. And the other two days, you're with your personal trainer. And you're feeling like a real champ. Cause most people are sleeping in, but by 7:00 AM, you've already burned that 600 calories. Guess what? Divide? 600 by 24 hours a day, you're burning an extra what 20 or 30 calories per hour, which is a couple, you know, it's like a few m&ms. And if you compare that to your sedentary neighbor, next door, who gets up and walks out to get the newspaper walks back in, maybe takes their dog for a stroll at night, they're catching up to you because everything they do requires more caloric expenditure. 1 (40m 2s): So if you climb one flight of stairs as a fit person, guess what? That's not going to bother you, but someone who's unfit pushing the cart through the grocery store, Isles all these ways where we're all, we're going to burn around the same number of calories every day, whether we work out or not, that's, you know, that's the compensation theory. 0 (40m 22s): Yeah. I mean, you know, it makes sense. So what would you say the best way to go about, I think with exercise and I think you'd agree it's for the most part, you want to just build muscle, right? That would probably be the most efficient and effective way to go about work. You know, just if you have whatever 30 minutes during the day, would you, are you better off going on the StairMaster or, you know, putting on some muscle? 1 (40m 50s): Well, great question. Yeah. I mean, it does depend on your goals, right? And so if you have the goal of living a long, healthy, happy, functional life, then preserving, maintaining muscle mass throughout life is going to be the most profound anti anti-aging longevity longevity strategy you can think of. So then we have this concept of cardio, which I'm really appreciating some recent momentum and emerging science saying that, you know, the cardio is not isolated. It's not a, it's not something you can isolate out out of a total fitness experience. In other words, you're going to get a cardiovascular training effect, no matter what you do, even if it's go in and lift a bunch of heavy weights, because as soon as you get out of your car and go from the parking lot to the gym on foot, and then do a few warmup exercises, you're getting an awesome cardiovascular training session. 1 (41m 47s): It's not a steady state pegging your heart rate when you're running five miles in preparation for the Chicago marathon, that's a whole different thing. And if you have endurance goals, that's really the only valid reason to be out there doing this steady state cardio. Because when you do it in an extreme amounts that has some serious health risks coming, coming with it. Cause it's not that healthy to get up and run day after day or pedal day after day in a, in a chronic manner, which is what most people do in the endurance scene. They're, over-training, they're overtaxing their heart they're hormonal systems, they're suppressing immune function, all this stuff that we see at the extreme endurance performers. So a well-balanced fitness program that especially puts body under resistance load and includes some brief explosive efforts, not every single day. 1 (42m 34s): Of course, when, when I'm talking about sprinting, my, my favorite subject, I'm doing a proper sprint workout once a week. No more, because that's all I need because the recovery time takes a lot. Yeah. I'll maybe do a half sprint workout or, you know, a less intense session a couple other times a week, but you know, you're doing these workouts that don't take a lot of time. They are very explosive and very challenging, but the duration of the challenging efforts are very, very short. And that's what the science and the practical experience is showing to be the most beneficial for your fitness, rather than this exhausting struggle and suffer approach. That's been promoted in the fitness scene for decades, and I'm gonna call out the, the popular fitness programming of today. 1 (43m 18s): Yea is by and large, too stressful and exhausting for the average person, the Peloton workout, what the friendly instructor from New York city come into you and your living room and the workout takes what 45 minutes or an hour. And there's some easy stuff in there, but your heart and your, your mind are trying to struggle and keep up with these series of intervals or whatever they're putting you through for too long, long, a period of time. And you end that workout feeling exhausted, drained, and depleted. And so if you are ending workouts, feeling kind of, kind of cooked you most likely overdid it, and you'd be much better served to just do some nice explosive efforts where your form, your technique, your, your central nervous system, everything feels alert and energized and, and doing a great job. 1 (44m 4s): And then if you start to feel this accumulation of fatigue, you end the hard stuff or end the workout and go home. And you're going to get an awesome cardiovascular training effect, even from strength, training, sprinting, whatever you're doing. Research shows that, you know, a sprint workout where you're, you're doing efforts of, you know, 10 seconds, you know, handful of 10, second efforts in many ways delivers more fitness benefit than a jogging for an and that's because, you know, when you challenge your, your muscles and energy systems to the capacity, that's when you get the most profound training effect, as opposed to going out there and plotting along. Now, we need to move more everyday too. 1 (44m 46s): And so that's a huge obligation. Maybe that's even more important than talking about fitness goals is we got to get up and move and get out of this sedentary lifestyle pattern. So we kind of have this either or thing where we want to walk around a lot at a very slow, comfortable pace and do movements that's really comfortable and not exhausting. This could be yoga class, Pilates, Tai Chi, walking, of course being the centerpiece, but there's all kinds of other examples of increasing all forms of general everyday movement. And then we have this obligation to put our body under extreme resistance load and perform explosive movement. And that is the key to I'd say, longevity looking good and preserving all these aspects of vitality for as long as possible. 0 (45m 34s): Yeah. I love that. And yeah, you keep hearing these micro workouts. I think it's, it's great. And we talked a little bit about, you know, might have talked about last time, but I had the CEO of X three, which is something I've been using a lot. And yeah. I never thought I I'm done with a workout in 20 minutes, man. 1 (45m 55s): 10 10. Yeah. And I like to go 20, oh man. I do 0 (46m 0s): A little bit of a warmup, but yes. It's yeah. It's, it's one set and done, you know, to fatigue with, you know, half reps and yeah. I mean, I, I love it. And you know, I think the fact that whether you're doing a 10 or 20 minute workout and it there's no excuses anymore, you know, it's like, yeah. When can you not fit that in? I don't know. 1 (46m 23s): Well, I'm, I'm really a fan of this micro workout concept as well. I've talked about it a lot on my podcasts written some articles for Mark's daily, apple. If people are interested, they can probably Google that term and hopefully some good stuff of mine will come up. But I think this is one of the greatest breakthroughs we've seen in the fitness industry in decades. This idea that yes, even the shortest, most ridiculously short workout can have a phenomenal impact on your fitness and health over time. And the cumulative effects of doing these mini workouts will add up to be tremendous fitness boost. And what they also do is kind of elevate the platform from which you launch all your formal workout. 1 (47m 6s): So if you are getting in with your trainer twice a week and they're putting you through the motions and you're doing all this great stuff, if you can just do a little bit here a little bit there on the other days, you're going to walk into those appointments or whatever you're doing with a vastly superior fitness level, and much less risk of injury from being the guy who sits at his desk all day long and then heads out to join the running on Tuesday nights. And boom, there goes your Achilles tendon. So we want to be like active moving people. We want to break up prolonged periods of stillness, any way we can. And that goes all the way down to, you know, every 20 minutes of sitting, you got to get up and do something. Even if it's for one minute, it's going to make a huge impact on your metabolic health, your cognitive function and your, your lifelong habit patterns. 1 (47m 53s): If you just, as a rule, get up and fidget around and do something. So I've orchestrated this, this home environment for myself to make these opportunities really simple and accessible. And I have great examples, like, you know, right here within reach, I have a pull-up bar and I might do, you know, on a busy day, Hey, I might, I might only do one set in a whole day. Some days I'll do five or six sets, but I'm pulling my, my body over a bar 12 times in one set. And if you go 365 days a year, and I'm doing this, you know, 300 times a year and another five or 10 or 20 or 30 days, I'm doing several sets. This is outside of my workouts. 1 (48m 34s): I'm not talking about my workout when I might be going and doing pull-ups. This adds up to, you know, thousands of hoisting my body weight over a bar as part of my life. I don't write it in my training log proudly to say, Hey, I did six pull-ups on my way to the, the cupboard to get another post-it note, you know, just kind of in the groove here. And there's other things, the stretch cords are hanging here. The X three bars downstairs. I have a deadlift bar that's on my way from the kitchen to the garbage bin. And so my rule is whenever I throw away the garbage from the kitchen. So what's that once every other day I do at least one set of dead lifts. Now, if I'm in the mood or I'm doing a workout, maybe I'll do the proper five sets of this and warming up and doing something that's taking, you know, 10 or 15 or 20 minutes, or it's part of an actual workout. 1 (49m 24s): But I want people to get out of this mindset that especially with COVID, you're hearing people say, well, you know, my gym closed. So I've really gotten out of shape and I haven't done anything. It's like, dude, your gym is in your cubicle because if you can drop for 20 deep squats and that takes what 30 seconds, and you can do that several times a day, oh my gosh. Even someone who's really fit. When you get up to 18, 19, your 20th squat, you're feeling a little burn. It's, it's not easy to do something that simple or just, you know, I have a one flight of stairs in the house and I sprint them almost every time just because I look at a staircase and I'm like, Hey, this is an opportunity to sprint. 1 (50m 7s): It's not going to get me tired for tomorrow's big workout is just a chance to do another micro workout. So my examples of micro workouts last from, you know, four seconds to sprint up the stairs to, you know, one minute of doing, going out of my way to do some pull-ups. And that's where, you know, it's within reach of everybody. And if you think that matter, that's no big deal. You're, you're absolutely, you're absolutely off track. It makes a huge difference. And so we got to get out of this mindset. That's an all or nothing. And my gym was out of towels this morning. So I turned around and drove home. You know, that's kind of thing. That's really blocking people from having a more active, healthy fit lifestyle. 0 (50m 48s): Yeah. I mean, this is all good stuff, Brett. I feel like we could talk for another hour this stuff, but this is yeah. A lot of good actionable tips. I mean, you know, if you, if you're, if you're walking after meals, if you're not snacking, I mean, those two things right. Alone, I think can go a long way. And, and I think we all know that you want to start maybe with nutrition first. And like you talked about with the whole burn theory is yeah. Just because you have an hour workout, doesn't give you an excuse to just go eat the rest of the day because that hour workout, no matter how many calories you burned, which is probably not probably less than what you think is, is it shouldn't be an excuse to just eat whatever you want. 1 (51m 31s): Yeah, that's right. The, the compensation theory theory goes even further and there are subconscious as well as conscious mechanisms here. So the subconscious part is if you do that, bad-ass spinning workout at 6:00 AM. You're going to find ways to become lazier the rest of the day. You're going to give yourself permission to move a little more slowly and maybe not lift the, the sandbags into position. The, you said you were going to do it, but you're just going to wait until tomorrow. And so you're going to find these ways where you kind of become a less active person because you're holding a hall pass in your pocket because of your 6:00 AM spinning workout. And then there's the conscious side, which says, yeah, I did my spinning workout. 1 (52m 12s): So sure. I'm going to reach for a pint of Ben and Jerry's in the evening because I deserve it. And this is my reward. And so when you put all these factors into play, you negate the calorie burning benefits of the workout. And possibly if you're, if you're doing it in an exhaustive manner, like I described, it's possibly going to trigger excess caloric consumption to try to heal, to recover from that exhausting depleting workout. And so what we see in the fitness scene, especially the endurance training scene are people who are extremely dedicated to endurance training with 10, 12, 17 hours a week. They finished the Chicago marathon nine years in a row, and they're carrying around an extra 20 or 30 pounds of body fat due to adverse lifestyle practices outside of their wonderful commitment and devotion to, to doing the athletic event. 1 (53m 3s): I don't think anyone's happy about that. I'm not trying to, you know, tease the runner who can run 26 miles. Cause I certainly couldn't do it anymore. And congratulations to them. It's a step up from, from being a sedentary person on the couch, but people are desperate to drop excess body fat and simply don't know how to do it in the proper manner, because we've been programmed to believe these flawed notions, for example, that you can somehow burn the calories away from a bad diet. The bad diet is going to NAB you because the hyper palatable foods will cause you to consume more and more as well as exhausting lifestyle practices like doing too much extreme training. 0 (53m 41s): Yeah. And, and normally towards the end of my interviews, I asked one tip to get your body back. But honestly, I think this, this whole episode was a lot of tips. So I wa I won't even ask you that, but where can people find your bread? 1 (53m 57s): Don't ask I'll come up with 10. I'm sorry. Yeah. 0 (54m 1s): I feel like we've given a lot of tips, actual tips, and the whole episode has been like that, but I know you got your be read podcast. I'm an avid listener, Brad kearns.com. Right. I'll do it for you anywhere else. I know you got your nut butter and you also have your ancestral supplement mofo, right, 1 (54m 23s): Right on. You're just, you're just the, the promoter king here. If you wanna, if you wanna find me, you'll find me people. That's. What's so cool about the internet today. We can connect, we can share the information. You're doing a great job with your show. I'm glad to be on again, and boy. Good, good luck everyone. Thanks for 0 (54m 40s): Listening. Yeah. Well, Brett, thanks again for, for the second take of this. And yeah, we'll have to maybe do a third down the line right on, 1 (54m 50s): Yeah. The, let the questions pile up. What does this guy think? We'll, we'll get the, the counter opinions and then, then hit it hard. It's a, it's fun to engage in the debate, but I will say in our space, especially there seems to be a little too much nitpicking, debating, arguing rather than just focusing on common ground. And I've had guys on my show that, you know, I strongly disagree with many aspects of their message, but I don't care because there's a lot of great things coming. And so we all have to pick and choose what, what seems reasonable to us. So if Brad Kearns is talking about micro workouts and you think that's really stupid, and you'd rather sit in a chair for eight hours straight, because you claim that you, you work better that way. 1 (55m 33s): I'm not going to argue too much with you. I'm just gonna put this idea out there that it might be fun to, to run up a flight of stairs once in a while throughout that eight hour day. And then you can go take that and do what you want with it. So yeah, let's live our own lives by free choice, but please have an open mind because even, even I deeply immersed in this stuff for years and decades, there are constantly things coming up that force us to challenge our fixed and rigid beliefs and, and try to, you know, continue to grow and learn 0 (56m 2s): As a person. Yeah, I agree. I mean, all we can do is put out this information and then it's up to the, up to the individual to take what they want and implement it. So. All right. Thanks Brad. This was great. Thanks Brian. Hey, get lean equally nation. Are you a man between the ages of 40 and 60 years old looking to lose inches around your waist have significantly more energy throughout the day and gain muscle all while minimizing the risk of injuries? Well, I'm looking for three to five people to work one-on-one with in my fat burner blueprint signature program, which I've developed by utilizing my 15 years experience in the health and fitness space. 0 (56m 45s): This program is designed specifically for those committed, to making serious progress towards our health goals. Over the next six months, we will focus on sleep stress, nutrition, meal, timing, and building lean muscle. If this sounds like a fit for you, email email@example.com with the subject line blueprint. That's firstname.lastname@example.org with the subject line blueprint. 2 (57m 15s): Thanks for listening to the get lean eat clean podcast. I understand there are millions of other podcasts out there and you've chosen to listen to mine. And I appreciate that. Check out the show email@example.com for everything that was mentioned in this episode, feel free to subscribe to the podcast and share it with a friend or family member. That's looking to get their body back to what it once was. Thanks again, and have a great day.