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episode #38

Interview with Dr. Pastore: How to deal with Celiac Disease, Advantages of Ancestral Eating, and Is Dairy good for you?

May 13, 2021 in Podcast


This week I interviewed Dr. Robert Pastore! Dr. Pastore has a vast educational background with many diverse subjects. His undergraduate education encompassed organic chemistry, biochemistry, neuroscience, human nutrition and genetics. He’s had the distinction of counseling some of the world’s greatest professional athletes and sports teams from the MLB, NFL, NHL and the world of endurance sports. We discussed a wide array of topics including the following: – Dr. Pastore’s health journey with Celiac Disease – Symptoms of Celiac Disease – How he eats gluten free – Advantages of eating an ancestral diet – His thoughts on fasting, dairy, nuts and meat! and his one tip to get your body back to what it once was!

0 (1s): Coming up on the get lean, eat clean podcast. 1 (3s): If I involved on lucky charms, I wouldn't exist. I evolved on meat. Meat does is, does not cause problems in the human being. If it's grass fed healthy meat, not bastardized farm raised garbage just really is a safe, healthy food. So you never going to get me to buy that and then you'll never get me to buy, Oh my God, so-and-so's cholesterol is high. The first thing you better do is cut out the eggs. I always think, and I go contact that person pass organic chemistry because cholesterol is huge. It's a massive molecule. You're not eating the cholesterol of a chicken and just injecting it into your bloodstream and magically increasing your cholesterol. 1 (48s): I'm not taking the chicken's cholesterol and magically transforming it into my own blood sugar. That's not how digestion and the human body works. 0 (56s): Hello, and welcome to the get clean eat clean podcast. I'm Brian grin, and I'm here to give you actionable tips to get your body back to what it once was five, 10, even 15 years ago each week. I'll give you an in-depth interview with a health expert from around the world to cut through the fluff and get you long-term sustainable results. This week I interviewed Dr. Robert Pastori, Dr. Robert has a vast educational background with many diverse subjects. His undergrad was in organic chemistry, biochemistry, neuroscience, human nutrition, and genetics. He has counseled some of the world's greatest professional athletes in sports teams. And in this episode, we discussed a variety of topics, including his health journey with celiac disease, the symptoms of it, how he eats, gluten-free the advantages of eating an ancestral diet and his thoughts on fasting, dairy, nuts, and meat. 0 (1m 51s): Dr. Robert is a brilliant guy and I really enjoyed my episode with him. He has a ton of energy and I know you'll enjoy it. So thanks so much for listening and enjoy the interview. All right. Welcome to the, get lean eat clean podcast. I have a special guest, Dr. Robert Pastori and I'm excited to have you on, so welcome to the show. 1 (2m 14s): Thank you, Brian. Thanks so much for the invite and I'm happy to be here. 0 (2m 17s): Yeah. So we're going to touch on a lot of different things before we get into that. I know you have, your background is fairly extensive. Perhaps just give us some, a rehash of, you know, your background and then how you got into all of it. 1 (2m 30s): Sure. I'll go this time. I'll go in order. Sometimes I start backwards because I spent the most time tackling my doctorate. I was diagnosed with celiac disease after a huge battle advocating for my own care. I'm in my late teens and got my formal diagnosis at 20. Maybe we can touch upon that today. I definitely have talked about that in different forms of truly comfortable exploring that. And that that really sparked my interest in wanting to pursue a better understanding of food could create such problems in my life. And for those of your listening audience, that may not know. So they act disease is an autoimmune disease that needs some specific genetic predisposition and then a full on immune system assault against proteins that are found in grains known as gluten containing grains. 1 (3m 18s): And of course their substrates are found in numerous foods that we consume daily. Even if they're not grains, right. They stick wheat and everything is what I've learned. And that, that really fostered a change in my mindset. I mean, I was on a fast track to want to be the youngest brain surgeon in the state of New York. And I found with my inquisitive mind, wait a minute. I was stopped in my tracks by what I'm eating, how is that possible? So then I went off to study. I got my undergraduate degree in science, so I got my bachelor's in science because I couldn't decide on a single major. If you look at my background, I studied everything from biochemistry, organic chemistry, pre-med neuroscience, genetics, the microbiology of cancer. 1 (3m 59s): Like my undergrad was ridiculous. I think it's 227. It was 127 credit hours just in the sciences. So then I have liberal arts on top of that. I'm still really was excited about nutrition, loved a doctorate out of university of Connecticut named Dr. John Carboni. He was a protein researcher. He set up shop at Eastern Michigan university. And I love saying where that's located. It's Ypsilanti, which starts with a Y if you're jeopardy fan. So went to Ypsilanti, Michigan got my master's degree in human nutrition, my certified nutrition specialist credential, which is the separate credential that you get after like 10,000 hours of working in the field and have to have a graduate degree from a regionally accredited institution and human nutrition, et cetera, went up through all that, and then came back to this love for biological medicine. 1 (4m 47s): So I just spent three years of my life, but then I came back to this loving while I was at Eastern Michigan studying Nutrogenomix. I really connected with this doctor who I love so much named Judith Brooks she's PhD. And she was just so attuned to celiac disease and the autoimmune conditions that could come out of it and how some people could have celiac disease, but their primary symptoms are actually outside of the intestines. So that totally fascinated me. I was studying the work of Rodrigo out of Florida, who was looking at multiple sclerosis and Dr. Judith Brooks was looking at Ms and different cases of age-related mental decline. So that led me to this honor society at Eastern Michigan called . And they said, Hey, I know you really dig in this biomedicine thing. 1 (5m 30s): And then you kind of were interested in precision medicine, like working on an individual level. Rutgers over was in New York at the time back in New York, across the river, has this amazing think tank of researchers and different types of PhD disciplines, perhaps you should pursue that. So I spent the bulk of my life over at Rutgers studying biomedicine, and then specifically settled down on biomedical informatics, nanomedicine and clinical informatics for my doctorate. It's pretty complicated. And my wife says, I sound like a bond villain. We're just going to go. And even one of my professors for my dissertation sounds like she was a bond villain and Tamina Mitchell for Nova. So she probably one of those brilliant mathematic minds. 1 (6m 12s): She's probably one of the Nobel prize in my lifetime, but I had the pleasure and sheer honor of studying there and finished top of my class and really started pursuing biological medicine. And I never let go of the reigns of Celia. So yeah, so I've studied it, formally, practiced it formally and then went out and published on that topic. My last publication was in November of 2019 after I did a multiple year study throughout many of universities. And if there's time to talk about that, however, it works out on improving the diagnostics for this, this horrible disease 2 (6m 47s): And this disease celiac is this, would you say this is a newer disease just because of, you know, the way things are made nowadays, as opposed to maybe back in the day. 1 (6m 57s): I think there's more of a hyper-awareness at least I'm hoping there is more of a hyper awareness of the disease itself. My case was considered back when I was diagnosed. I'm 51. Right? So imagine I'm telling you, I was, I fought to get diagnosed at 19 and 20 doctors really were so clueless and I don't mind sharing this story. Brian's, it's a true story. And I don't, I don't need names to protect. I don't want to say the innocent to protect the guilty, but when I got my diagnosis, I remember a cardiologist cause I had my actual symptoms were primarily the cardiovascular. So as fascinating as the doctor goes to his medical textbook on the wall and he tore out the section of celiac disease. And I remember being so vexed by that because I, I walked out and said to my loved ones who were accompanying me on this final visit to make sure you get a diagnosis. 1 (7m 45s): Are you going to be okay? I was that sick. I just was dumbfounded. He came out and said, I don't think anyone else will ever get diagnosed with celiac disease in this office because I got the sheet out of the textbook, you know, keep in mind there was no internet then, right. So I really came along at this really cool time. I was like the last baby of the sixties, you know, born in 1969. So this is this cool time of, you know, you really had to hit the library and hit the books and publish literature to know what, you know, in a hard copy format. So I just felt really bad that there are a lot was missing. So I kept that open. Brian and I actually pursued other doctors that were doing published studies on questionnaires of the most knowledgeable in medicine. 1 (8m 32s): How much knowledge did they have in the realm of celiac disease, which causes so many diseases. And that led me to the work of a brilliant doctor at Georgetown at the time when she published her, name's Dr. McCormick and she published a paper in 2013. That completely blew my mind at that time, the American college of gastroenterology, like the think tank for gastroenterologists, where the primary disease starts immunological resonance and its Genesis. She questioned about 400 doctors after they published the diagnostic criteria for celiac disease and a large percentage of them in different areas actually failed in their knowledge and understanding. 1 (9m 13s): So I think new is in the knowledge that some doctors are getting it more on their radar by the efforts of McCormick, zip, stir, and Syria. And I'd love to say myself, if I may be so bold without ego, of course, by pursuing knowledge and trying to get doctors and understand the importance, my paper, I received at least 500 phone calls after my paper was published in the journal of the American college of nutrition in November. The electronic version, thankfully with modern technology was out prior to the print version in November, but it came out in may. I received at least 500 calls from everyone from gastroenterologists to internists, to endocrinologists telling me, you know, right on, this is what we need to do. 1 (9m 55s): And thanks for opening my eyes here. I didn't know that 83% of individuals with this disease actually are not diagnosed. And they're walking around in the population with this disease, you know, and it's very serious. So I feel like it's kind of picked up a little bit radar wise between 2013 and the efforts of McCormick and my other colleagues to, to present day. But it is, it's a very frightening statistic that we can, we can not ignore. 2 (10m 21s): And obviously there's different degrees of it. What are some of the symptoms that people would, would maybe have that, you know, they're not even, you know, they might not even know they have celiac disease, but what are some of the common symptoms? 1 (10m 33s): I'm so glad you said that because there's different sets of symptoms. And that was another thing I went advocating on and started this like university tour and started doing lectures. Cause there's the classic manifestations prior. And we know those as abdominal pain, particularly what we call postprandial after you meet people with this intense abdominal pain. And then it just passes some bloating and gas and they can just blame what they ate and go out and go over the counter and start self-medicating with Tums. Or one of the other after mentioned, you know, revealing pain, revealing agents or Nexium, et cetera, diarrhea. There's a skin condition known as dermatitis. Herpetiformis that alludes a lot of doctors. And a lot of people it's like this very interesting Rasha did a whole podcast, wrote a whole article on it. 1 (11m 16s): I received at least a hundred calls on that one paper cause doctors are just equating it with a form of dermatitis. Believe it or not. If there's a history in someone's family for down syndrome or Turner's syndrome, it is indeed linked to a lineage of celiac disease, a shockingly cause this sits basically I love your audience and who you, who you preach to basically just say, Hey, I'm tired a lot. Well, fatigue and lethargy is actually a big symptom because you're mobilizing the bulk of the immune system towards something you're eating. We can never forget the bulk of the human immune system resides in the gastrointestinal tract. It's called that associated tissue abbreviated the Galt. So if you're over activating that towards what you're eating, you will be exhausted. 1 (11m 58s): The inability to treat iron deficiency, anemia, it's refractory. This is what doctors call it. Meaning they give a patient iron, they try to change their diet, but you can't fix their iron deficiency. It's a classic sign of celiac disease and then a severe itchy rash, or what's known as not to be so graphic and all the time that show's going to air, but Seattle area, which is like a fatty floating store that shows that you're not fully digesting your fat. So those are like the classic symptoms that have medical textbooks. But what doctors may not know and I'll whip through these. I have them tattooed in my brain, right? There's there's hair loss. That's not male pattern baldness. And it could be like more all over the head that happened to me. 1 (12m 40s): This is all my own hair. By the way, Brian, for my own hair, alopecia was superior to young women. Canker sores in the mouth known as ulcers are at the stomatitis. You can have a taxi and I, which is like a dizziness or a period of time. You can experience early onset, cognitive impairment or late stage and be blamed. And doctors could be pursuing early on Alzheimer's and prescribing Aricept and all that. Believe it or not, it's celiac disease. Probably the biggest one, which if anyone ever listened to my own podcast, which I haven't recorded in forever, because I'm so busy, dental enamel defects, you have this window of time to grow an animal. And when you get your permanent teeth and you missed that window, you will have teeth problems for the rest of your life. 1 (13m 20s): Raising my hand, I have the mouth of an NHL player and I never was on the ice. I put someone through Harvard with my dental bills. People could experience clinical depression. The bulk of immune system is in the gut, but also the bulk of our neuro-transmitters substrates and neurotransmitter precursors. And sometimes whole amino acids that pass the blood brain. Beer is also in the gastrointestinal tract. Modern medicine teaches this as the second brain and it's in all medical textbooks, gastrointestinal abnormalities known as dyspepsia where you're not fully unfolding proteins in the stomach where digestion begins. The mouth is where they begin, but not for proteins, fertility problems in men and women, headaches, heartburn, spleen activity, where you have low immune system, believe it or not. 1 (14m 5s): Lactose intolerance is linked to an elevations of liver, enzymes, nausea, and vomiting, clinical nutritional deficiencies that doctors can't figure out why obesity, bone loss known as osteopenia or osteoporosis, swelling of the pancreas known as pancreatitis, peripheral neuropathy, pulmonary hemo Cita. Rosis I'm gonna let your audience Google that. 2 (14m 24s): Are you reading this out of a textbook, 1 (14m 29s): Like nearest behind me and then slapped with seizure disorders, fibroid disorders, refractory kidney stones and Cyrodiil. Yeah. 2 (14m 38s): Well my thought when, when you read all these different symptoms is, is, is the diagnosis, is it easy to be diagnosed with it? Meaning like I'm sure people think they have one thing and they have something else. How accurate is the diagnosis of it? 1 (14m 55s): It, it, if you're following the right path, it could be dead on accurate. And that is the part of where my mission picks up, where I grabbed the Baton from Africa, mentioned McCormick and colleague Zipsor and colleagues and, and Syrian colleagues that said, we need physician education and I can provide those references for those, by the way, in my papers references. And of course, Brian, I'll give you my last paper full it's so important that we follow a pattern. So what we want to start doing, when, if someone, if a doctor or a patient suspects, they have celiac disease is first test what's known as secretory, immunoglobulin IGA. So that's an S IGA to find out where they sit on the spectrum. And you may say, hold on Dr. 1 (15m 35s): Best story. Why is that? Can't we just jump right to the nuts and bolts. Well, believe it or not, there's a 15 fold increase in. This happened to me for an SIG insufficiency or deficiency in those who have celiac disease and the primary marker for diagnosing celiac disease. First, the path to diagnosis is called tissue transplant time and HGA. So if I don't make enough to, you know, go yay. And then you want to diagnose me against the amount of that. I should have a false negatives and many people do. And that's part of the problem. So that's the first step is knowing what that value is. And then there's kind of like this decision tree, clinical decision tree that physicians must make. If the patient has adequate levels or they're high, they should be shunted towards a path of blood work. 1 (16m 20s): That's kind of classic. And that's the affirmation tissue transplant. Tammany's IGA. If that is equivocal, if it's negative. Great. If it's equivocal and we don't know, they're kind of borderline, then we want to get more specific and measure something called the native Missy and auntie Missy endo missile, antibody IGA. So that's an EMA antibody. And then if they're very high in a teen teen, IGA, just principle, we can go right to a biopsy. Now that sounds lovely. And that's tied in, in a little bow and a box, but that's not how celiac disease manifest, ask anyone, go on Reddit, where I've done, ask me anything's on this. And reduct restaurateurs history on Reddit would see like these. 1 (17m 1s): And you'll see like thousands of people saying, that's not how it worked for me. And I'm like, I'm with you. And they all shared stories that I started saying on Reddit and another and other avenues. And of course in academic institutions, individuals can be low in SIG or be low for their age, right? You could be 18 years old and your SIJ should be in this range and your tests come back as if you're 70. Some doctors not astute to that. We're not adroit in the knowledge and just say, okay, let's forget about that. Take two pepsin. And I'll send you off to whatever your main complaint is, right? So then you'll go to that other specialist and then you might enter the realm of you're mentally ill and you need like an antidepressant or something or an anti anxiety. 1 (17m 43s): And meanwhile, we just haven't been diagnosed. So understand, first and foremost, the duration to diagnosis is a minimum of 10 years. 3 (17m 50s): You got that. It takes people 10 years to fully get diagnosed. I was born in suffering with symptoms since I was five. I was formally diagnosed about 15 years later. And then on the other end of the spectrum and all blood decisions are made on that IGA result. So if you're very low in deficient or you're low for your age group, you should have a completely separate set of blood work. And I wrote a whole article on this in layman's terms that our chair with you, you, but I would then run a tissue transplant. So IgG, in addition to the gold standard, IGA, as well as a different type of blood work known as a Gliden deaminated antibody, IGA and IgG, this is a completely different form of reaction to gluten in gluten and celiac disease. 3 (18m 30s): You react to glide and included into proteins found in gluten. So it's really glide and that's the primary problem. And you need to be very intelligent when you're working up a patient or if you're a patient and you want to be an advocate for your own healthcare, which is my mantra and my platform. And you should then tell your doctor. I literally wrote an article that I say, print this and bring this to your doctor so that you can then get the right course of blood work and the lab. 2 (18m 56s): Okay. No, I was just gonna say my question now to you is if, if diagnosed, what, what should they do as far as, you know, overcoming something like this? Or is it something you live with and you just have to just change the foods that you eat. 3 (19m 11s): Yeah, this is a lifelong, there's no cure at this time. I am a member of a group called the celiac.org and it is the celiac disease foundation. It's a nonprofit on, what's called the patient advocate for them along with a dear friend of mine and colleague, he's a Dr. Joseph Murray of the Mayo clinic. He's the second author of the last paper that I published and Dr. Murray and I worked really hard on trying to improve diagnostics and physician understanding. But what we do say at the end of the day is while there's a lot of drug trials that have transpired and failed and more on the way at the end of the day, what we know as doctors is the only thing you could do to treat this disease is beyond a 100% militant gluten-free diet. 3 (19m 52s): There is nothing else you could do, and yes, yes. 2 (19m 55s): And it's become easier and easier, right? 3 (19m 57s): I'd like to think it's coming easier and easier, Brian. But I do think it's the age of those who are diagnosed, not being interested in any way, shape or form. I'm just saying that I do believe there's some people that are stuck to their guns and that could transpire at any age, right? And, and where, how you grow up. There's 20 year olds that get a diagnosis that I participate in, and then they're in shock. And there's seven year olds that would rather take courses of steroids and hide this from other physicians and just live their life as it's slowly killing them, because please do not. Let me pull punches, Brian, this isn't a, my tummy hurts and I'm sick. This does cause multiple sclerosis, various autoimmune diseases. One of the worst things it does is it causes small intestinal cancer, which is why I'm a fan of what we do in the United States, which is the gold standard of the final diagnosis is a biopsy. 3 (20m 44s): And my European colleagues, whom I love and respect, they follow a path 1 (20m 48s): Of serological diagnostics, particularly in pediatrics, where they just use specific blood work. And I can talk about that as deep as you want me to go. And in this country, the reason we pursue this as there's not enough standardization of every lab to meet the criteria of being tenfold over for diagnostic value. And we're so afraid of missing things that we see in that biopsy. I've had patients come to me over the years when I worked in internal medicine, I've been in internal medicine, endocrinology, cardiology, and infectious disease. So in all those years, I've had such a wealth of information, seeing patients with this disease and just being diagnosed with this, this disease due to my passion and wanting to, to figure it out and identify I've had patients come to me and say, I was diagnosed with celiac disease after my small intestinal cancer diagnosis, because while my intestinal sample, after surgery and chemo went to get biopsy, they also found the original cause of it was celiac disease. 1 (21m 46s): Celiac disease causes small intestinal cancer, if not diagnosed and treated on time. 2 (21m 51s): So like what for you, what, what's your typical eating routine then? What type of foods do you eat and what type of foods do you avoid then that you recommend? 1 (22m 0s): Oh boy, we would, we're opening a big can now, but we might be taking a turn because I'll talk about a study that I did in 2015 and my firm belief in an area of research that I personally love. Okay. So everybody do their thing and work with your doctors and work with your specialists. What works for me and my celiac disease, obviously completely removing barley rye oats, which are contaminated with gluten, primarily in wheat and spelt. And triticale on all the cousins and family members of gluten. I did go one step for based on academic research. I fell in love with the publications that were coming out on more of a Hunter gatherer type research and nutrition. 1 (22m 41s): The first paper I read was in the new England journal of medicine back in 1984. And that kind of blew my mind. And then I read one that was picked up by became a really good friend of mine, Dr. Loren Cordain, we've known each other for a long time. One of my highlights of my life was helping endorsing him to come on board for an academic lecture where he won the lecture of the year. That was back in 2004. And then our friendship stayed really strong. And I'm so honored that I got to interview him for a podcast episode. And we just had a blast and talked for like three hours and only published like 90 minutes of that. So some of my favorite moments, so I read everything Dr. Cordain ever published. And how you might say, how did you get on your radar? 1 (23m 22s): One of his popular books, not at all. Do I sound like a popular book guy, Brian? No. I actually read in 1999, I read a paper. He wrote called cereal grains, humanities, double edged sword. It had 355 references. And I said, I love this guy. And he talked a lot about my disease and the Genesis of my disease. And he said something that knocked me off my chair at the time. He said, imagine having the genetic predisposition for celiac disease, because that's the only way you get it. You have to have the genes. And then the immunological reaction is that imagine if you had the genetic predisposition and were never exposed to gluten, imagine if you lived in one of these civilizations and you never were exposed, and I'm just sitting there, imagine those words. 1 (24m 5s): And I had grand mal seizure disorders. No one could diagnose couldn't drive a car by the time I was 18 and a half. And the seizures had severe heart arrhythmias that I was on multiple medications and the most brilliant mind and modern minds, plural and modern medicine couldn't solve my case. And it was what I was eating. So you asked to answer the question based on all my research and study 200 and 1600 gatherer societies. I adopted a very strict Hunter gatherer lifestyle of eating, and I only consumed foods that were pre agrarian age. And that's basically how I live to this day. 2 (24m 44s): So what's your typical, what's a day 1 (24m 47s): For my breakfast this morning, I had the three eggs and sliced avocado with a quarter cup of blueberries. My lunch today will be grassfed steak around eight ounces. I'm blessed working at home and I moved to Southern California last year. So I'll be able to grow that in my own backyard, which is really nice with a big mound of a rugala, which I will use extra Virgin olive oil and lemons from my own lemon tree in my backyard as the dressing. So I'm really kind of living off the land as best as I can. And a repeat of that. I have to talk to my wife what we're doing, but I think I might be doing roast chicken tonight with roast vegetables, all pretty agricultural type years, agribusiness, I should say, 2 (25m 33s): And cooking for yourself as a huge advantage, right? Because obviously going out to eat could be a puzzling thing. And you know, like you said, they, they put gluten things that you wouldn't think they were in. 1 (25m 43s): Yeah. There's some very famous, I'm not, I'm not gonna name names, but they're public stories. So people could easily just Google some of the soundbites. I'm saying there's very famous stories about people being put into a position where they could not eat out and then actually getting their diagnosis. And one of the most famous stories is a young woman who used to be on a talk show on channel seven, a and the East coast was channel seven, ABC, ABC, all the view. And she was on in a series of survivor and she was not going to the grocery store and buying what she normally did. And she was eating off the land as best as she could and never felt better. And she was like, Oh my God, well, everybody's wilting away. She's like, this is amazing. 1 (26m 25s): And she ended up coming back to, I believe it was New York and a good colleague of mine made the diagnosis. I worked with Dr. Peter Green for years at Columbia Presbyterian, referring patients back and forth. So Peter was brilliant. He made the diagnosis and she found out she had celiac. So I've been hearing a lot of that. Believe it or not during COVID pushed, get people diagnosed just as they were changing their lifestyle. And they were like, Oh my God, this is phenomenal and cooking for yourself. I think has a great advantage. And back when I lived, so you should go run. I lived in Manhattan, actually lived in hell's kitchen in New York city for the bulk of my life and my entire marriage to my beautiful wife of almost 17 years. And we had to eat out a lot and I had like a sprint for everyone. 1 (27m 6s): And once we kind of figured out our save written best places, it was just constantly discussing with these individuals what I can and cannot eat and making sure they really understood it. And, and I got pumped up. I got sick a lot while, while eating out in different environments. And I, we talk about that when anyone would ask me on podcasts, et cetera. So this is during COVID 19 here in the lockdown during the bornavirus years year, I, I was able to completely live a life where I never experienced any exposure to, 2 (27m 38s): Would you advise most people in general? Like you see like Dr. Gundry's book, you know, regarding night shades and, and the different proteins that you're talking about as well with gluten glide. And would you advise that for most people eating an ancestral diet is probably the way they go in general, whether you have it, whether you have it or not, 1 (27m 59s): It's it's, if you said to me is, do you feel that that is the healthiest way we should be eating as humans? My answer would be yes, because there's such a great volume of evidence towards some of these other food groups that are so new to humanity being associated with other problems. But we don't find that except in the very extreme sense, syndromes and cases with more Hunter gatherer foods, I was on a podcast that was hosted by one of the hosts and Sean Baker 2 (28m 29s): Coming on soon. So 1 (28m 30s): Sean is a really, really lovely guy and, you know, just, I had a blast. He treated me like just with the most beautiful respect and as a colleague. And he, let me say it was on my mind and respected my credentials in my education. And I greatly appreciate that because I feel the same way about Sean. I thank him for his service being of your military GYN, getting a phenomenal education. But, but it's interesting because we kind of touched and really connected with, Hey, in its only extreme cases, has meat been a problem, right? If you're bit by the lone star tip, and you're one of the few people that have a rare form of Lyme disease, you can develop alpha glial syndrome and you can develop this of Anna Filactic reaction to beef, right? 1 (29m 13s): That's an extreme circumstance and proud to say I could be wrong, but I didn't think Sean knew about that until I was on a ship, just say hello. But, but outside of that extreme circumstance, Brian it's, you could look up tenable studies between dairy and type one diabetes, and you could find these other instances, there's whole papers just on how the humans can be problematic in the gastrointestinal track and blocking the absorption of key nutrients. There's a textbook. I keep next to me and it's called understanding the normal and clinical nutrition. And in there, there's actually a section on site sheets and zinc binding and young kids in India that looked like nine year olds like teenagers in India when they just consume pulses and they get no zinc or they're zinc sequestering by phytates, they end up becoming decisions and having low testosterone production, et cetera. 1 (30m 6s): So you don't see that in the food realm of Hunter gatherers, unless someone has a specific reaction towards a day food in that realm. 0 (30m 15s): Right. Yeah. And now my other thought that I thought we could talk a little bit about is gut health. Like yeah. Just cause it's, obviously we know how important it is and what, what would you, what, what things do you advise people for gut health? You know, I know like, you know, you talked to Dr. Shawn Baker regarding like the carnival diet, the ultimate probably elimination diet per se. Right. But th but I, you know, you call it an elimination diet, but really there's probably a lot of things that we shouldn't be eating that we are. So it's probably more of a normal diet for, for that could be great for a lot of people, but what is your thought on gut health and fiber and things like that. 1 (30m 53s): Yeah. And look, I do think that's where I may differ from, from other people only because we can't deny the great evidence on fire. And I do believe in plants that are paleolithic in their, in their era, more Hunter gatherer to be more accurate with my vernacular. You heard all my meals had some type of a plan component to them. And I do believe in that. And I do believe in the nutritional composition of his plants. And I, I, I know that we evolved eating beans plants. So that is where I'm getting my basis of recommendations. So that's important to understand we can evolve eating, you know, easeful bread, that's found in a market that's supposed to be so healthy and this sprouted grain bread, we didn't evolve on that. 1 (31m 35s): So we didn't move the needle. And we survived that long, right? Eating animal proteins and these types of plants that we found out what plants bothered us by getting really sick and new to kind of avoid those. So I'm a big fan of the fibers and the components that are found in these plants as they've been found to, and then spent a lot of time studying the microbiota they've been found to help foster the growth of good species. So there's just enormous studies on healthy bacteria. There was just a, even a wall street journal brought to my attention by a patient said, look, it's finally making mainstream what you're teaching. There was a study on psychobiotics published in the journal of nutrition in 2017. And then the wall street journal was talking about it just a couple of weeks ago on how important probiotics and good bacteria to be in our gut. 1 (32m 18s): And it's not as simple as just taking the species, right? We learned about that from a species known as anchorman SIA, which is strongly associated with turning off certain autoimmune disease conditions in the gut. And it's linked to potentially being beneficial in multiple sclerosis. But in these studies, if you just give someone Akkermansia, it doesn't grow, it doesn't flourish. These species have to kind of bore into the mucosal, lining like a Phillips head screwdriver. And what we found is that they have other species that work with them and relatives, and it takes a village as well as prebiotics like seeding along. They then can proliferate on their own. So I'm a big believer, all intents and purposes, understanding an individual's weakness to whatever food I've met. 1 (33m 0s): People that react to lettuce. I've met people that if they eat an avocado, they turn, you know, our shade of red and feel like they're going to die. I get that. Having said that removing any extraneous food substance, regardless of the source, and then having individuals eat more like a Hunter gatherer that is replete and plant-based foods to get all these fibers and prebiotics, you do notice a better and a healthier microbiome. And when you include reactive substances. Cause that was one of the things I wrote about extensively during my tenure at Rutgers. And then over at Eastern Michigan, I've talked about how you can identify someone with celiac disease characteristics, just by the type of species growing in their gastrointestinal tract. 1 (33m 41s): They had different dominance of other species. They have less beneficial flora, and this is a volume of data. And, and look, you know, I'm standing on the shoulders of giants here, Brian, where my university, one of my Alma maters had like terabytes of data on the microbiome. All our work was, you know, one of my classes was literally called remapping the human genome like that. Wasn't an art class, nothing wrong with art. I've just seen, there was no cliff notes for that type of work. So you do, you cannot, and you can't ignore the microbiome when you're looking at the human body. And the last note I'd say on that is we have more cells of species growing in the gastrointestinal tract than we have cells as a species. 1 (34m 27s): So it's kind of like who's steering the ship. It's really kind of cool when you think about it, right? You have just trillions of cells and organisms in your intestines and you as a human being have less. Wow. 0 (34m 42s): All right back, we had a little disruption, but going back to gut health, what I know there's a lot of research out there. What, what, what regarding probiotics and prebiotics? I know some people are like believers of them and some people are just totally shun them. What is your thought around that? 1 (35m 0s): I, I look, I, I, my work is really kind of interesting. So I look at the specifics of what's transpiring in an individual and it's part of my doctoral education. So a chunk of my work was on something known as clinical informatics, which has another term for it, which is known as translational medicine, which you then can explain as something called precision medicine. So it's finding, I can tell you the mantra of one of our professors finding the right drug for the right individual at the right dose at the right time. Right. And then of course, all of those separate statements have a different substrate. The right time could mean everything from chronological age, biological age, hormonal sequence, and frequency. 1 (35m 40s): And one of the images that we were very academic in our work, one of my, I was trained by near modus. Shabaka, who's one of the most brilliant minds in cancer research in genetics. He actually started the first cancer gene think tank over at university of Buffalo. So imagine study with back-end so brilliant. Brilliant man. I'm honored to have him as a professor. And we talked about finding the specifics. So then if you go further into my work, I've really delve into what an individual's microbiota is revealing and measuring their genetics. There's some great companies out of Germany that are able to use PCR analysis to basically GI map the gastrointestinal tract from stool samples, multiple stool samples, and then quantify what species they have, what species they don't have. 1 (36m 27s): And that's, that's how I make my decisions. Would you say this is 100% ready to go and endorse? No. And if we waited for that wheel, we get nowhere, right? We're all learning right now in our world. How science really should work, right? There's an infection that's wiping out. People I've fled. Fled is the wrong term, but it sounds dramatic and fun. I fled New York city right before the apocalypse. So all my colleagues thought I knew something I did not. I left in December, moved to California, just for my daughter's life and her having a backyard. We lived on the 47th floor. You can't just run out and play. And then she's going to a phenomenal school here. So we ended up in Southern California and who knew that became the biggest state. 1 (37m 8s): So I left the biggest state of infection to the current biggest state. But my point is the rapid movement of science way faster than we ever did before, because there were no governing bodies interfering as aggressively as moral, whatever the argument is on which side you stand to get something done and to do something safe and effective. That's how I operate my life. How much data is on the side of this makes sense. And it's real. And I can talk to a patient saying, this is what I think right now. And this is what the science says versus ignoring it. And just saying, this has no value. Well, that side of the argument doesn't exist. If you go to pub med.gov, which is where only an individual should go to search for scientific studies, we see the value of various probiotic therapies. 1 (37m 52s): I prefer to know what an individual has before I give them something. And when I do that, I see dramatic changes in their health and functioning. 0 (38m 2s): And then as far as the guts concerned, what about fasting? Something that I'm a big proponent of? I do a lot of fasting myself, because what are your thoughts around that? And, and do you do any type of fasting? 1 (38m 14s): I, I personally do not do any type of fasting. I know it's excellent and healthy. I've tried to do it, and this is something by the way, if you want to know my background with fasting, I had a podcast with grant Tinsley. If anyone's a fan of fasting and you don't know Dr. Grant Tinsley, you're doing it wrong. I say that with respect, Dr. Grant Tinsley is out of Texas, Texas tech. He's a brilliant, brilliant mind. I spent an hour with him and we continued our friendship and he published probably the most downloaded paper on a fasting and maintaining muscle mass during a fasting state. So the only reason I haven't been able to do it is I think my years of undiagnosed celiac disease absolutely destroyed so many things on my own body. 1 (38m 56s): For a period of time, I had the mimicking of type one diabetes and the mimicking of type two diabetes. The bottom line is no matter how hard I tried with my education and knowledge base, I get extremely sick to the point of like, I will vomit, sorry to be graphic again, Brian you're to never going to have me back later and just got extremely queasy. And it's one of the cool things about, and I never brought that up with grant on like a public forum, but we talked about it privately. And he's like, yeah, it's a very individualized thing. And that's where I listened to people when they told me things, right. I listened to people even say to me, you're such an advocate, you know, grass fed meat and, and you eat more of any doctor I've ever known, but I can't do that. Like I just don't feel well this way. And I'll try to find out why Brian, like, I'll find, well, you know, you don't have enough lipase and you don't digest this that well. 1 (39m 42s): And your pancreatic elastase one is, is, you know, it's a great biological marker. According to the Mayo clinic for how well a person can unfold proteins, of course you're having trouble. We could do these things to help them. For me, it hasn't, it hasn't worked in any of my efforts. So I just try to eat only when I'm hungry and only the foods that I like. And I can tell your listening audience at 51 with a three-year-old toddler, I can, I feel like I can run through a wall and I'm hoping that you could feel my energy. And that's just, I'm obviously doing something right for me, but, but seriously, I practice on patients. I'm a big believer in intermittent fasting. And my favorite is definitely having patients subtracted me, having patients have an extended period of going without food and consuming food at like a lunch to dinner type timeline. 1 (40m 33s): What I have seen there is unbelievable from a hypercholesterolemia pathway, which means elevated blood lipids to normalize glucose and hemoglobin A1C, which is a long-term measurement of a damage to glucose on a hemoglobin, which is a bad marker. And it accelerates aging and, and to generally feeling well. So I practice that advice on basically a daily basis. 0 (40m 58s): And what are your, I like to ask this, what are your thoughts around dairy? You know, some people can, I know it's probably, maybe it could be a long conversation, but what are your thoughts on dairy? 1 (41m 10s): Yeah. You know it, and this is going to go back to I'm about to make a whole bunch of enemies. I'm just going to, I'm going to start by saying, I personally have not consumed Gary since I was 19. I'm 51. I hate theory with a passion. And you'll say just why I'm reading papers. No, I was very sick from my disease. And the one thing I couldn't solve when I thought I was well finding out, see like CS was associated with my heart disease associated with my seizures associated with neurological symptoms that were physical, like numbness and tingling. I was being tested for Ms. It was a nightmare of doctors after doctors. They didn't have MRI. So I have like a brain x-ray to my chronic migraines, nothing would fix my chronic migraines until I was able to study the potential link between the milk protein group casing and migraine incidents. 1 (41m 57s): And I met a couple of doctors that believed in that. And I said, I think I'm going to pursue this path. And I ended a 17 year suffering bout my first migraine was the age of five. I remember laying on my grandmother's lap while she, she brushed my hair coming out of kindergarten to my last migraine was at the age of 22. So imagine that suffering, I even took my SATs to get into college with an covering one eye and having a full aura. It was a miserable experience that turned out. Okay. Well, when I found that connection, as you could imagine, you hate it and please keep in mind. I used the quote in another textbook food hypersensitivities and adverse reactions by Sherry as one of the, the editors of that text. 1 (42m 41s): It was really following the gold standard of academics. So then I went and got skin tested and I was positive for milk proteins, alpha lactoglobulin beta lacked albumin. That means way. And the casein group. So I said, Whoa, first hit. Then I did what they say to during the textbook, even though I wanted to murder them. Now you've got a diagnosis, let's test your blood and then let's eliminate it. And reintroduce it tested my blood. I was off the charts. Then I was free from my pain. And then with my doctor, I said, okay, I'm ready to do it. I had a little bit of dairy products. I had a piece of cheese that I had a little bit of milk. And within 36 hours, I had like the worst migraine in my life. I was non-responsive to injectable. Imitrex will all the drugs. 1 (43m 22s): I wrote it out. It was horrible. And that was my last exposure. And I was a believer. And then I started working with some colleagues and doctors that I remember getting a couple of cases from headache specialists at Johns Hopkins and just trying to sleuth. And Gary came up multiple times in addition to that absolute assault on dairy by me, in addition to that was again, going back reverting to my colleague, Dr. Loren Cordain and, and a lot of his writings. And keep in mind if you're a real believer, Loren, Cordain you read his published studies in peer reviewed academic literature that met the assault of peer review literature committees. Like I am right. And then read all the researchers he's quoting in his papers and then go and read those papers. 1 (44m 6s): So at the end of that massive exercise, while doing, keeping up with my own studies, mind you, I came to the conclusion that not only was dairy wrong for me, but it may be really solid advice when talking to individuals, if they're asking me generally, would it make sense to try a dairy elimination diet? 2 (44m 25s): Right? And, and would you say for most people that's like one of the first steps you'll with people is, is elimination diets and see, you know, see what's potentially triggering whatever, you know, they're getting, 3 (44m 38s): You know, this where it's really, this is really tricky. I really love data as best as we can get. And I like to look at what's out there. So there has been some research published in Yale. For example, I just worked up a case of irritable bowel syndrome. And I was called by physicians to assist because they said, look, you know, this person has functioning bowel, but they have all of these symptoms were classifying them as what's known as IBS C, which is a form of irritable bowel syndrome with constipation. But let's be honest, irritable bowel syndrome means we can't find a medical cause and this person's suffering. So we're going to give them various drugs based on which criteria lane they fit in. If it's a ton of diarrhea, we're going to dry them up and stop their bowel movements, but we're not going to fix any other symptoms. 3 (45m 20s): If they have constipation, we're going to give them accelerants and irritants so that they have more peristalsis and they have to evacuate their bowels more frequently, albeit most likely uncomfortably. So, right. So working up that type of case, being very adroit in the clinical literature, I read like God, 20 to 30 journals, a minimum every three days on various topics of interest, I various flags set up. I'm always studying. And back in 2017, the first paper came out of the Yale school of medicine, identifying glucose site activation towards specific foods. And how versus a sham diet, meaning it was double blind placebo. They had a cure rate of IBS by 83%. 3 (46m 0s): So I've tried that. I'm a big believer in classic IgE, immunoglobulin reactions and mass cell reactions with skin scratch test. So I've sent one, another recent case was sending patients off to university of Pennsylvania. They have a dynamite department there that'll do scratch tests and actually test histamine reactions, mass cell reactions to a group of foods or chemical agents. And then what that does, Brian has helped me shorten the list, right? And a lot of times I'll do that. If the patient will listen, right, what do they say, know your audience. So if the patient says doctor, by story, I'd like to practice really healthy nutrition based on the principles I've listened to your podcast. Or I read about you in an interview or Dr. Cordain or someone else said, you might want to talk to this guy, I'll start with paleolithic platform or a Hunter gatherer platform, and then do the affirmation things to whittle down because people can react and people can react to beef in, in again, albeit rare instances, it is possible, right? 3 (46m 55s): You, you never want to not listen to what an intelligent person is telling you about their own health. 2 (47m 3s): And what would you say? One more thing, nuts, not seeds. You know, I hear different camps go back and forth regarding that. What's your thoughts around them? 3 (47m 13s): Yeah. And I think it's an individual approach. I think if you were to, so I'm not on any submission, let's go back in time and I'm doing a research paper for a zinc status and the fight tape to Zig ratio in inner cities in Detroit. And I want to look at my table. So 1 (47m 30s): If I take load is pretty hidden, I actually had to basically sign my life away legally. I'm kidding. And I'm being, you know, I'm being funny with my language, but it was really intense. I had to sign this academic and legal document university of Minnesota to get access to this fight tape database. That was extremely the most accurate at the time that shared the phytate content of foods and nuts are pretty high up on that list. You know, like wheat bran is number one, but like almonds are definitely up there. So in instances with individuals complaining of gastrointestinal symptoms, raw nuts could be a problem for some people, dry roasting can help them there. There's definitely a frequency of nut allergies that are on the rise. If you look at very academic groups of allergy asthma and immunology, I have found there's young phenom heading towards PGA and identified a nut reaction. 1 (48m 18s): And then sure enough, he had exposure and had Anna Filactic type reaction and needs epi pens everywhere. So there's definitely an increase in that type of reaction. And I wish I could tell you the exact reason why perhaps our environment pesticides, who knows, but it's happening. And I think it's an individualized approach. Do I have nuts in my diet? I do in small quantities. So I'm one of the lunatics that on occasion, we'll take out the quarter cup measuring out of my drawer and I will measure a quarter cup of macadamia nuts. And I will sit on occasion and have like, just that as long as there's no cotton seed oil or that belongs in jeans, not food, 0 (48m 58s): Right? Why don't you want to avoid those seed oils, right? Yeah. 1 (49m 2s): Not a fan of that. And again, someone might say that's like hypocrisy or look at the individual studies on those and how they can be beneficial and they have beneficial substances in them. Well, when you read the materials and methods, we're not looking at other things. We're looking at the fact that someone might publish Sesame seeds are a wonderful source of gamma linolenic acid, gamma linolenic acid known as GLA might have some anti-inflammatory effects. It might truncate negative estrogens. And we can go on a diatribe about that, but no one ever said, what's the ramifications of consuming, toasted Sesame oil in a diet. Does it increase lipid peroxides? Does it have these negative deleterious effects is that you're using and robbing us of vitamin E and you can go on a whole long list and then having negative consequences. 1 (49m 46s): So just my instinct told me that didn't make logical sense. It was equivalent to I don't, you can't ever get me to buy a couple of things that come out there cause they don't scientifically work. For example, red meat is not healthy. Incorrect. I remember working in internal medicine, my first paper for the group of internal medicine years ago, it was literally called red meat is safe. I kid you not. And, and the head of the medical department published it because they knew and I used academic literature to back it up. And, and then of course there's some common sense that you then back up with clinical literature, we evolved eating. If I evolved on lucky charms, I wouldn't exist. 1 (50m 28s): I evolved on meat. Meat does is, does not cause problems in the human being. If it's grass fed healthy meat, not bastardized farm raised garbage just really is a safe, healthy food. So you're never going to get me to buy that. And then you'll never get me to buy, Oh my God, so-and-so's cholesterol is high. The first thing you better do is cut out the eggs. I always think, and I go person pass organic chemistry because cholesterol is huge. It's a massive molecule. You're not eating the cholesterol of a chicken and just injecting it into your bloodstream and magically increasing your cholesterol. 1 (51m 8s): I'm not taking the chicken's cholesterol and magically transforming it into my own blood sugar. That's not how digestion and the human body works. And in the sickest people, morbidly obese diabetics would absolutely in the stratosphere hemoglobin A1C, by the way, it's published study, according paraphrasing, paraphrasing, giving them unlimited eggs, added to five points on their total cholesterol. Now for all I know those unlimited eggs added unlimited toast and jam. So it's poor study, but great study for those of me or those of us that believe in, in that, in that type of, of false accusation against eggs and theirs. 1 (51m 51s): And I could go on there's hundreds of studies that show that is just a big lie and it's part of what's transpiring and agribusiness. And you'll never get me to, to sign up for that belief system. 2 (52m 2s): Yeah. Yeah. Meat and eggs. Well, that's good because that makes up a majority of what I eat. And like you said, get to get meat from good sources, right? Grass fed grass finished is the way. Yeah, 1 (52m 16s): You're very, you're correct. And Dr. Cordain wrote a phenomenal paper on grass fed meat versus conventional meat. And if you look at the contents, that's why I love Dr. Cordain and I'll keep mentioning him is, and he's a great friend and colleague. So I want to make sure that that's known by the audience and you know, there's no, there's no profit there. It's just love for the individual. And like-minded in science, Dr. Cordain is, is, I'd like to say I'm like him where we approach things scientifically, he didn't just make an opinion. He went and said, let's put these foods to the test and examine the comparison of what's in them and the amount of mega threes that you get and conjugated linolenic acid. And so many things you would not normally expect there. 1 (52m 56s): And by the way, Brian, this is like a huge thing that many people don't know when I sat for the certified nutrition specialist exam, which is a real academic credential. And I was sitting in the rotunda gallery at the hospital for joint diseases. And I'm sitting there. And I, I remember the professor who was like, just monitoring this like massive five-hour exam. I looked up and smiled. Cause one of the questions, all this intense math and science biochemistry, and then there's this one like softball question. 3 (53m 26s): That was what food per ounce is the most dense and nutritional content. And grassfed red meat was one of the options. And I thought this was really cool. Cause there was some humor in the exam there at the time I took it, it was written by a nephrologist and I knew they're really anal and they were going to go nuts, but I just will never forget that moment. And I had this smile and I remember coming up to Dr. Stanley Wallach rest, his soul he's passed great guy. And he's the one who signed my, my CNS credential when I finally got my paper that somewhere in this office. And, and he, he said to me, Hey, doctor passed away. What was so funny? And I said, the meat question totally. And it was just a great and he left and it was like an agreement. 3 (54m 7s): And we were in the know and then look at the latest information that just came out in pediatric recommendations by the department of agriculture, do not withhold meat from your children. How cool is that? How cool is that? Yeah, 0 (54m 22s): I had a conversation with Marty Kendall. I don't know if you're familiar with him. He's got a great blog, but he talks a lot about, he's a big pro big protein proponent. And you know, what's your thoughts around like fish and what certain type of fish would you recommend? 3 (54m 37s): Yeah. And you know what I do? Cause it changes over time. I'm a big fan of recommending the environmental working group's mercury calculator and they have a website that's free. You don't have to pay any money. And you could look at where the fish is at now and actually put in your body, weight, your height and the type of fish you're going to eat. And it will spit back what your mercury exposure would be. So I'm not one of the doctors that will ever say, it's actually heard a sound bite on the news by a doctor saying, you're ready for this. A little bit of mercury is not a problem. That is not true. I was in a general medicine when mercury thermometers got the FDA banned and we had to rate our practice of those and switch to digital. 3 (55m 21s): So number one, that's sad how old I am. And number two, that shows how dangerous mercury can be at any level. And the reason these metal toxic metals are so harmful. Brian first and foremost is they are molecular mimickers and they behave like important minerals. So mercury behaves like magnesium, magnesium runs over 300 enzyme systems in the human body. Mercury levels that go over a threshold of normalcy disrupt over 300 different things problem. And the reason led is, is it behaves like calcium. Hey, why does a kid eat lead paint chips, and then loses their IQ? Let's think about this lead behaves like calcium. We know this study after study, after study, you need a voltage gated calcium channel to release same sign, optic response, a neurotransmitter out of a signups. 3 (56m 8s): If led is taking the place there that does not transpire. We have truncated neurotransmission. We have lower intellectual quotient and other abnormalities. And we know this from bone storage studies on women. Women will be exposed to lead, especially if they were born, when we still let it gas. And then they wait, they go through menopause and they have a dumping of lead in their system. And many doctors, not in the know think, Oh my God, did you move? What were you doing? Were you huffing gas? Why is your score so high? You know, they started losing bone. They had a more rapid bone turnover due to the time of life. And they dumped all those years of stored lead into their bloodstream and they develop a whole litany of symptoms. So what I believe is look at the environmental working group information. 3 (56m 50s): There are some great companies out there that are really smart about safe fish. That measure it, vital choices. One I'm not paid by the company. They, they do interesting things. They actually measure line court, caught tuna and then find out how much mercury is in their stash. They have wild-caught salmon. That's actually really wild caught, and it's not a lie and, and it's verified and they make sure they have tracking papers. And that's the type of information that I'll present to, to my patients. That's probably where I'm the most strict, especially when dining out, because you could be given some tomfoolery where you're not giving the real thing. You know, I had a patient of mine, dear good friend, affluent guy living in Florida. 3 (57m 30s): And he, when he said, I don't think I'm getting Dover sole locally here. So I think I'm not going to order that on the menu. You know, I could, I said, you could be a light bulb. You know, you might want to put your finger in a socket and put a bulb in your mouth. And if it lights, you got mercury, I'm teasing. 4 (57m 43s): I won't do that. No one do that 3 (57m 46s): Humor sense of humor. So yeah, so, so mercury levels and they can catch up really quickly. You know, some people are stores and retainers and they don't detoxify mercury very well. Right. You know, and, and I look for those things too. If someone comes to me and they say, Dr. Pastori, here's the deal. I love Hunter gatherer stuff. And I just want you to know many eat tons of fish on a weekly basis, more accurately pounds. How do you feel about that? I would say fantastic. Let's do a blood mercury. You know, every quarter let's use really safe, smart choices that I mentioned today. ewg.org go to their mercury algorithm, vital choice when you can. And if you can afford it, cause it is a little bit more pricier, but worth it in my humble opinion, food is, is, is currency. 3 (58m 27s): And then it would be really cool to maybe look for other things. You know, let's see if you have any MTBE in your system, which is a, by-product added to gasoline in the seventies. And it gives us a clue that you're a retainer or two methyl Hickory, which is a by-product of xylene. And these are permanent chemicals that are always going to be on the planet. And I lived in New York city and I don't have any of these things in me. And let me tell you, you probably could tell by my personality, I look, I found a by-product of DDT in my wife and she was born after they banned DDT. So I really look for stuff. So if someone's a great excreta of chemicals, there's less of a risk. If someone's a retainer, we really want to monitor their, their mercury. And the interesting thing is if you are flagged with very high mercury, actually your state department of health will call you and your doctor before your doctor even calls you 4 (59m 12s): Really. Wow. Yeah. It's really scary, but interesting. Yeah, 3 (59m 17s): I think about it, right. It's a again, let me make this clear. It's illegal to have a mercury in a classroom, but no one's saying, Hey, be careful how much tuna fish you eat, go to town, right? Or swordfish tacos. Eat those stored fish tacos in the hamper. 0 (59m 33s): Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, we could probably talk for hours. We're getting up on it here, but let me ask you one last question. What would you, what advice would you give? What maybe one tip would you give someone if they're, you know, middle-aged fifties, 40 fifties, even sixties, and they're looking to maybe they've put on maybe 10, 15, 20 pounds and they want to get their body back. But what maybe one tip would you give them? 3 (59m 54s): So putting on muscle mass is what you're saying. Correct. 0 (59m 57s): Well, what I'm saying is they've put on weight, they put on weight. They want to get their body back. Yup. 3 (1h 0m 3s): One of the smartest things to do in, in one sound bite is an amalgam of a Hunter gatherer diet that works for you with intermittent fasting. I think if you could start there, you could move the needle. Even if you're not starting a proper exercise program, right. For your body at this time, you'd be shocked how well that'll work. First, if you jump into exercise voraciously, you actually could experience a subsequent increase in your appetite. And if you're still eating harmful foods, you could actually be consuming more calories of the harmful foods than you were as a sedentary individual. So on the biggest proponent of exercise, I think it could be a panacea, but it's so important to pursue Hunter gatherer, strategic eating with intermittent fasting. 0 (1h 0m 49s): Love that. Love that. Well doctor, thanks for coming on. Yeah. 3 (1h 0m 53s): Such a pleasure. Thank you so much for the invite. And it was such a blast talking with you, my friend. Thank you. Yeah. 0 (1h 0m 58s): Thank you. Thanks for listening to the get lean eat clean podcast. I understand there are millions of other podcasts out there and you've chosen to listen to mine. And I appreciate that. Check out the show notes@briangrin.com for everything that was mentioned in this episode, feel free to subscribe to the podcast and share it with a friend or family member. That's looking to get their body back to what it once was. Thanks again, and have a great day.

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