Brian (0s):
This week I interviewed Harley Pasternak. Harley is a Canadian personal trainer, professor and author, known for his work with celebrities and his evidence based approach to fitness and nutrition. He's authored several bestselling books, including The Five Factor Diet, The Body Reset Diet, and has designed fitness facilities for Four Seasons, hotels and resorts. We discussed his new book, the Carb Reset, and how we shouldn't be Afraid of Carbohydrates, along with Why fats could be causing your weight gain, Why preparation of greens makes all the difference, the importance of a balanced diet and his one tip to get your body back to what it once was. Really enjoyed my interview with Harley.
Brian (41s):
I know you will too. Thanks so much for listening and enjoy the show. All right. Welcome to the Get Lean, Eat Clean podcast. My name is Brian Gryn and I Harley Pasternak on Welcome to the show.
Harley (52s):
Thanks for having me.
Brian (53s):
Thanks for coming on. Bestselling author, also worked with a bunch of celebs through the years gym designer as well. And And you're out of California, correct?
Harley (1m 8s):
Based outta Los Angeles. Exactly.
Brian (1m 11s):
And have you always been out of LA or been moved around? No,
Harley (1m 14s):
I'm, I'm actually born and raised in Canada and spent most of my, my life there and moved the about 20, 22, 23 years ago to the United States, and I've been here since.
Brian (1m 28s):
Awesome. Yeah. And what made you get into like health and wellness? Like who, who influenced you to get to, to sort of go down this route?
Harley (1m 38s):
My mom took me to the, to the YMCA when I was really young and saw me kind of looking like I was gonna hurt myself in the gym and got me back then they didn't have personal trainers, but she hired the local high school phys ed coach to spend three sessions with me and teach me how to bench press and squad. And I was a hockey player in Canada, got into strength training to be better at hockey, went to university, spent almost 10 years in university doing degrees in exercise science, nutritional science, was working towards a PhD and got recruited by the military as an exercise and nutrition scientist. And I concurrently started a training business in Toronto that took care of all the Hollywood actors that came there to shoot films.
Harley (2m 20s):
So, you know, Spider-Man, Superman, Catwoman Greenhorn at X-Men built a mobile gym, largest mobile gym in the world that would travel to film sets for Halle Berry and Will Smith and Toby McGuire and started writing books about fitness and nutrition. The books did well around the world in I think 14 languages. The books became, brands became TV shows and kitchen appliances and video games and, and gyms and, and here we are today, 34 years after I started.
Brian (2m 52s):
Wow. It's amazing. Who's, who's your favorite celeb to that, to work with that you worked with? Who?
Harley (2m 58s):
Just to work with?
Brian (2m 60s):
Yeah.
Harley (3m 1s):
You know, there's so many, I'm very, very lucky in that the, the clients that I have don't have to come to me. They choose to be with me in so much as, it's not like someone's sending them to me against their will. And the better they do with me, the better they look, the better they feel, the better their film is or TV show or, or runway. And so they're all very motivated and so they're, they're for the most part, they tend to be very nice. Ariana Grande is wonderful. Gosh, you know, tough to,
Brian (3m 34s):
Lucky to pick so many tough to pick favorites, right?
Harley (3m 37s):
I have a lot like funny people I've worked, my favorite are the comedians over the years, so whether it be Jason Siegel and Paul Redd and, and Seth Rogan and Sarah Silverman and Amy Schumer. The list goes on. Funny people tend to be really great to work with.
Brian (3m 58s):
Yeah, I've seen Amy Schumer live. She was, she was good.
Harley (4m 1s):
She was good. Very
Brian (4m 2s):
Funny. Yeah. And, and the books, and I know you have one coming up, it's not out yet, is that correct? The Carb reset
Harley (4m 10s):
Comes up, I think August 19th, but pre, pre-sales are right now, so people can log on and pre-order them now, so you can get one of the first ones.
Brian (4m 19s):
And what was, what influenced you to write this book and, and, and just talk about, I mean obviously I'm sure there's a lot in there regarding, I'm guessing regarding how carbs are, can be healthy for you. And I think there's sort of a misnomer around that. I've talked about that before on my podcast, but what influenced you to, to write this book?
Harley (4m 38s):
So I, I'm actually an adjunct professor at University of Toronto. I teach nutrition. I come from a very evidence-based background, and this will be my eighth nutrition book. My message has never changed. And as, as diet trends come and go, high carb, low carb, gluten, eat like a caveman, eat like a religious figure, I'm still standing with the same message. And from a scientific perspective, that message has always been heavily supported by the benefits of, of having carbohydrates as at least half your calories, if not more than half your calories.
Harley (5m 18s):
I travel a lot for work and I remember the first time I went to Japan, what was glaringly obvious to me. I think at the time Japan had a 2% obesity rate, literally 2%. Today we have a 44% obesity rate in the US and so that was culturally shocking for me. So I really wanted to understand these people live longer than anyone else in the world. They have the amongst the lowest obesity and diabetes rates and heart disease rates And what are they doing? And so let's take a look at their diet, let's start with there. And they are have amongst the highest carbohydrate diets in the world, right? They eat a lot of rice, which goes in the face of everything that we get bombarded with in North America about, you know, rice is bad carbs or bad starches bad.
Harley (6m 1s):
And, and we can get into that in a minute and I started to look a little closer and say, okay, what other countries eat like this and are successful doing it? And the truth is, if you look at the 10 healthiest countries in the world with the lowest obesity, heart disease cancers, for the most part, these are high carbohydrate diets. These are countries that consume almost 60% of their calories from carbohydrates, where in the United States were just about 40%. So they're consuming, you know, 40, 50% more carbohydrates than we do in the United States as a percentage of their calories. And they're healthier, longer living leaner. So that sort of started the thought process for me is why are we cutting carbs again? I know it's not fun to do.
Harley (6m 43s):
I know that the basic logic in me, when I see someone go to In-N-Out burger and order a bacon double cheeseburger with no bun, that doesn't seem healthy. So why do the people think it's healthy? And so I really spent time doing a lot of, a lot of searches on PubMed and taking deep dives into the health benefits of making carbohydrates a higher part of your diet and the detriments of living a low carb lifestyle.
Brian (7m 11s):
Yeah, I I think it's great that you're sort of sending this message out because like even myself, there's, you know, I, for a while I was fairly low carb and doing a lot of fasting and you know, I've had the podcast for five, six years now and had all different types of views on here. And one of them was like a pro metabolic view. I don't know if you're familiar with, like, I've had like Jay Feldman on recently, Mike Fave hasn't come out yet, but Dr. Ray Pete was one that sort of influenced them. And, and you talk about like rice, like the rice diet was popularized by, I don't know if you know what Dr. Walter Kempner did a, helped people with diabetes with eating, just eating simply pretty much white rice and fruit and things like that.
Brian (7m 58s):
So maybe why don't we get into some of the benefits of, of, you know, consuming carbohydrates and how that can, how that can be, you know, a pro metabolic way of doing things.
Harley (8m 10s):
Yeah, I mean, from a, from a statistical perspective, before we even dive into the, the, the biology of it all, if, if you take a look at, since the United States has cut back our carbohydrate and intake, we've cut it back significantly since about 19 99, 19 98. Since that time, obesity has skyrocketed, you know, reading less carbs than ever. And we more obese than we ever have been and more unhealthy than we've ever been. So going low carb has not helped us. I think going low carb is not great from a gut health perspective. The quality of calories that you consume on a low carbohydrate diet tend to be a little bit worse depending on who you listen to.
Harley (8m 54s):
You know, cutting out carbs also means cutting out carrots and tomatoes and a lot of fruits, whole grains, all of these things that have a plethora of research showing the health benefits of them. So going low carb has not worked for us, is not working for us. And, and the introduction of carbohydrates is important for so many reasons. Number one is all of the ingredients that we know definitively are very healthy for us, like whole grains and fruits and vegetables, tubers, legumes, these are all things that are part of the healthiest diets in the world. Like the Mediterranean diet or the Scandinavian diet or the China study or the Japanese diet, the Okinawa diet. Any of the places around the world that really are thriving and living the longest are having significant amounts of these healthy carbohydrates in their diets.
Harley (9m 43s):
And so the issue for us is not about cutting out carbs, the issue for us is having quality carbs, whole carbs. And quite often when we think we are eating a carb, that is unhealthy for us. So like I, you know, I cut out donuts and, and french fries and I lost weight. Well, donuts and french fries are actually fats. They receive the majority of their calories from fat, not from carbs. Brian, there's a really interesting stat I read between 1974 and 20 24, 50 years, the average American consumes 700 calories more per day. That's a lot. So we are eating more, right? And everyone thinks that our problem is over consumption of sugar.
Harley (10m 26s):
Of those 700 additional calories that the average American's consuming a day, how many calories do you think are coming from extra sugar?
Brian (10m 36s):
Probably minimal. Mostly from fat 40. Yeah, exactly.
Harley (10m 40s):
40 calories. Yeah. So it's, it's the added fats that are the problem. And I'm not to to curse all fats and fats are really great and healthy for us, and we need fat in our diet, but we've gone so far the other way with hyper processed foods that are using fat for shelf stability and for mouthfeel. And, and, and it's, you know, most fats are pretty cheap. The additional fats are the problem. And, and yeah, sure too much sugar is not good, but not enough carbohydrates is also not good.
Brian (11m 12s):
Well, I don't know if you like noticed there's been a bit of a shift lately with, I've seen like the sugar diet people going sort of, have you seen this or not? Maybe it's not No, no. Oh, okay. So like, it's been growing a bit, you know, at least like, I don't know if you know Mark Bell, he's, he was a low carb guy for a while, keto guy, pretty well known in that space and start hooked up with this guy Cole Robinson, who's probably tried everything and, and like just Mark Bell,
Harley (11m 44s):
The weight, the weightlifter.
Brian (11m 45s):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he started getting into the sugar diet where you're pretty much, and then, then there's also been like, I know there's so many different diets out there and stuff comes and goes. And when I heard about this I'm like, well, this, this sounds a bit crazy, but yeah, I talked about it with Mike fave a bit and, and, and there's pros and cons to it. I think, you know, sugar on its own, it could be metabolically good if it's, as long as it's not over consumed, you know? 'cause I think people are so, like you said, people are just scared of it. And so anyways, well,
Harley (12m 20s):
Well pe people are scared of carbohydrates of which, right. Sugar is a carbohydrate.
Brian (12m 26s):
Correct. Yeah. And anyways, I think he sort of slowed his pace a little bit, but, But it did get him to realize that, you know, carbohydrates which essentially, or sugar, like can be, there can be a lot of benefits for, and I actually just did a, a short video on how, you know, you know, even with like thyroid function and I mean, I talked about like even brain power and co cognition can help with things like that. And even a athletics performance, there could be benefits around carbohydrates. I mean, there's a lot, I think we, what happened was we went into this like ancestral viewpoint where we thought that, well, if our ancestors didn't need it, it's not good for us, but just because our ancestors did something doesn't necessarily mean that it was great.
Brian (13m 14s):
Like optimally to, for our health now, you know, in the present day. But anyways, yeah,
Harley (13m 22s):
I I, I always, I agree with you. I, I hate that, I hate that reasoning for justifying something that we should do it because someone did this thousands of years ago, hundreds of thousands of years ago, tens of thousands of years ago, right? People did a lot of stuff thousands of years ago. People did a lot of stuff a hundred years ago that we would never do today. So, you know, I was on someone's podcast yesterday and he was talking about, he's a big fan of the guy who created the paleo diet. And I called, am I able to swear?
Brian (13m 49s):
Sure, yeah.
Harley (13m 51s):
I called bullshit because, you know, I've actually taken the time to read a lot about Paleolithic man and, and the diets and the, the nutritional habits back then. And there was no paleo diet. There was no such thing. First of all, different parts of the world where there was paleolithic man, the diet was different. And most of what we consume were bugs and insects and berries and, and, and beehives and, and things that were really easy and convenient for us. And so the idea that you can buy primal ketchup and primal salad dressing today, that has nothing to do with, or paleo crackers and paleo cookies, that's just a, a justification to create a business.
Harley (14m 35s):
And so I'm with you. I don't like when people justify things by saying, we used to do it thousands of years ago, we should still do it.
Brian (14m 42s):
Yeah. And you know, we, the body's so smart and can adapt to almost any diet. It's, it's really amazing, you know, and I know there's the crave of the car, like this craze of the carnivore diet and I think there's definitely a lot of pros to it in the sense that if it takes someone off like the standard American diet, then you know, it could be very beneficial. And you're gonna, you're gonna see weight loss, you're know, you're probably gonna get more energy, you know, especially if you're coming from eating a lot of processed foods. So I feel like it depends on where you're coming from. 'cause you could come from a lot of junk and then change to, you know, some type of ancestral diet, let's just say like just eating meat.
Brian (15m 23s):
But I think like long term, like how sustainable is that? And, and that's like sort of when I, when the sugar D came, like, well, there might be some pros to this, especially from people that are sort of scared of that lens of like eating, but long term like you really getting nutrients, you know, you're sur you're definitely probably lacking protein.
Harley (15m 43s):
I mean, with all, with all due respect to Mark, I'm sure a great guy, I've actually spoken to him before. I like him, he is come up with these great bands and straps to help you Yeah. Do bench press and squat and things that are so effective. But I think that's a little bit of a cry for attention when you come out with something that's a superlative and an extreme maybe to prove a point. And maybe that's what he is doing. But you know, there's, there's the Twinkie diet. Mark Hob came out with the Twinkie diet where he did, he had only Twinkies for 10 weeks and he lost 27 pounds. Or there was the, there was a McDonald's diet, John John SNA did the, the McDonald's diet and he lost 40 pounds only McDonald's. There's a potato diet, there's the rice diet, there's all these examples in case studies of academics over the years just trying to prove the point that it's about the law of thermodynamics, right?
Harley (16m 28s):
So if you wanna lose weight, you, you know, you need a calorie deficit, eat less, burn more, and if you wanna gain weight, vice versa. And so whether it be sugar with Mark, if that's what he is doing, potatoes, you know, Twinkies, a McDonald's, all of these hyperbole of eating styles are just to prove a point that it's calories in versus calories. That whatever those calories are now, as you mentioned, the quality of those calories are compromised when you start doing something like having a sugar diet or a potato diet or a Twine diet. And you, you will have health detriments, you know, as a result. But as far as pure weight loss and weight gain, it's calories in versus calories out.
Brian (17m 9s):
Yeah. I I I've always been gone back and forth. I I do agree. I mean, I think calories and calories are, obviously, it plays a role, but also too, like, it's important to understand like what those calories are and how they're sort of affecting your body. Exactly. I mean, so I think it's, it's, yes, I do agree calories and calories play a role, but sometimes people look at it such at, at such a simplistic lens that like, I think there's, there's more nuance a little bit Yeah. Than that
Harley (17m 37s):
Without a doubt.
Brian (17m 38s):
And so maybe give some highlights of, of the book and like what, what, what was your, your, the main message that you tried to send to people regarding it?
Harley (17m 48s):
You know, I, I start off by talking about my childhood in the 1980s. I remember that fat was bad, carbs were good and, and so much so that we started a whole new industry of hyper processed foods, specifically the Nabisco snack. Well, cookies. Yeah, I remember that. And they were these fat free cookies, right? And, and so
Brian (18m 9s):
I, I couldn't stand the way they tasted, but that's, some people loved them.
Harley (18m 12s):
But yeah, I, I think I tricked myself into thinking they're the most delicious thing in the world because they were fat free. And so, wow, it's a cookie and it's fat free. And so growing up on this, on this low, low fat, high carb philosophy, which is what we were bombarded with, where it was about calories in versus calories out, and, and it made sense to me, and fat is, you know, almost two and a half times the caloric density of protein and of carbohydrates. And I was a bodybuilder in my late teens and, and early twenties. And, and we would manage our caloric intake throughout our bodybuilding preparation schedule. And you, you know, I can't think of a more lean low fat version of a physique than a competitive bodybuilder.
Harley (18m 58s):
We step on stage, you see veins and striations in all of us, and that's eating carbohydrates right up to the moment we walk on stage that's eating sweet potatoes and rice and, and, and rice cakes. And, and we never, we never turned away from carbohydrates. And so as the low carb diet came back in popularity, I, i, it was always very confusing to me. It was confusing to me from a a, a body composition perspective. It was confusing to me from a health perspective. And so as I mentioned, you know, you have people having bacon, double cheeseburgers, but don't have the tomato and don't have the bun. And, and as a result, you know you'll be better for it. I think that was, that really confused me. And so I wanted to really understand why do we have the low carb diet? Who is it for?
Harley (19m 39s):
And it does help some people, you know, and there's people who have epilepsy often do better on a very low carbohydrate diet. There's people who overconsume hyper processed foods that are mainly carbohydrates. And so if you're someone who, who, who eats way too much bread, and if you're someone who eats, eats away drinks way too much fruit juice, and that's your issue. And rather than just swapping those out for their natural forms of them cutting down carbs is a way for you to control your calories and that works for you, then that's, that's totally fine. And we know that before we, we, you know, Banting and best found insulin in Toronto at the University of Toronto, diabetics basically had to have zero carb diets in order to exist.
Harley (20m 29s):
And I understand that here we are in 2025, I don't understand why someone would want to have, you know, rendered bacon with clotted cream and stay away from a lot of vegetables, stay away from most fruits, stay away from whole grains, stay away from legumes. It doesn't make sense from a scientific perspective. It doesn't make sense from a, an applied perspective. So welcome to 2025. Welcome to the Carb Reset. We're gonna use carbohydrates to take weight off and keep weight off and stay healthy and enjoy life in the process.
Brian (21m 2s):
Yeah, and I'm sure when you were working with, I, I don't know if you still work with the celebs now, but when you were working with them, probably I'm, I'm assuming a lot of 'em probably thought along that same mindset of, of like low carb. Was this something you ran into a lot with them?
Harley (21m 20s):
You know, I think some of them certainly came into our work together with that mindset that, oh, I, I'm getting ready for this movie Now I gotta cut my carbs. At which point I would say, okay, I'll ll tell ya what, let's make a deal. Let's do it my way, and if it doesn't work, then we'll do it your way. And I've had a, a lot of luck that my clients have been successful in transforming their physiques. One of my books in particular, The Body Reset Diet, I think is the top or one of the top selling smoothie books. You know, in American history, that's not such a big claim. Not, not a lot of people write smoothie books, but, but obviously in smoothies you have carbohydrates, you know, and you have, you have fruits and, and bananas and, and, and people were losing weight and feeling great because we were able to control their caloric intake in the process.
Harley (22m 6s):
We were able to get all their important nutrients and ingredients in the process by, by putting proteins in there and healthy fats in there and, and, and fiber in there. And so when you don't have enough carbohydrates, you tend to be deficient in a lot of micronutrients. You know, if you don't eat not eating fruits and vegetables, you're gonna miss a lot of vitamins and a lot of minerals. You're gonna miss a lot of fiber, both water soluble and insoluble. And so fiber is really important for controlling your appetite. And so I, I think the introduction or reintroduction of carbohydrates as a significant part of your diet in their whole form. So I want you to have rice not right fla rice flour. I want you to have fruits, not fruit juice or dried fruits.
Harley (22m 49s):
And so returning to good carbohydrates, whole carbohydrates, less processed carbohydrates will help you lose weight, keep it off, and enjoy life in the process.
Brian (22m 59s):
Enjoy. And for someone that's been low carb for a while, do you feel like there should be some type of transition with implementing carbohydrates instead of, you know, I think sometimes people may be, haven't, you know, they, they, they haven't been able to oxidize carbohydrates for a long time and they've been just like a fat oxidizer. So like to make that transition, do you take it sort of a step by step approach to that? Or how does that look?
Harley (23m 27s):
There are extreme cases of people who have, you know, we call it the metabolic syndrome and, and have insulin sensitivity issues from being very obese for long periods of time or from having under muscle. So obviously you're at risk for type two diabetes when you're obese. You're also at risk for type two diabetes when you're too skinny and you don't have a lot of lean muscle tissue. So I, I would say preparing yourself to have a healthy diet starts with physical activity and specifically strength training and putting on lean muscle tissue has this insulin-like effect on, on our bloodstream. It can usher sugar out of our bloodstream into our muscles, So we get to use them.
Harley (24m 10s):
But as far as preparing yourself to introduce carbohydrates, I don't think so. It's not a, a negative feedback loop. It's not like when you don't have dairy for a long time, your body stops making lactase and you can't break down lactose and you have to slowly re reintroduce it, you to, to introduce it. You know, if you've been on low carb for a lot long time, have a potato, see how that feels, probably pretty darn good. You know, and I'm talking about baked potatoes only a hundred calories, right? And it's full of nutrients and fiber and potassium and, and so I don't think you need to prepare yourself to introduce carbohydrates.
Brian (24m 43s):
Okay. Yeah, I would, I I mean, I would agree. I would say that maybe the rough the, the, the leafy greens perhaps for some people might, you know, especially if they're not used to digesting 'em, they might be a gut irritant maybe initially if they're not, haven't had 'em in a while.
Harley (24m 60s):
I think everyone is different. I have trouble with leafy greens. Okay. I always have. And so there's certain vegetables that I find the preparation technique is key to A, being able to digest it and b, being able to extract the nutrients from it, which is why I've been such a big fan of blending for so many years. A if you don't know how to cook and you don't have time, how, how much, you know what's simpler than blending. But there's a research out there showing the, the bioavailability of the nutrients for the ingredients that you put in a blender. It's like baby food, it, it predigesting it for you. And so, right. You know, eating raw spinach, for me, I can't do it, but sauteed spinach with a little lemon juice, I got it.
Harley (25m 42s):
You know, broccoli for me in the raw form, it's just not happening. But steamed broccoli and then steamed broccoli, I throw in the blender to make a broccoli soup. No problem. So preparation is, is important for certain high fiber, especially insoluble fiber ingredients, preparation helps a lot of people digest 'em.
Brian (26m 3s):
Yeah. Yeah. I've, I've been implementing actually a decent amount of white rice. I, I like it, I think it's easy to, fairly easy to, to digest. And it goes with like everything you can sort of do with it what you want. And like you said, like visiting countries like I think, did you say Japan? And, and how it's such a big part of their culture and they have such a low, low obesity rate there. I mean that alone did, have you heard of the, that Walter Kempner diet, the, the rice diet that he did for people with diabetes? Have you heard of that?
Harley (26m 32s):
No, but I wanna make a note of it. Hold on. So it's, what's his name?
Brian (26m 36s):
Yeah, Dr. Walter Keppner in the mid like 20th century, he like literally helped people manage and reverse diabetes. It was a pretty big, I think he worked with a lot of, quite a lot of people, But it was written upon and a lot of people in sort of the, let's just say the higher carb space, just talk about it because of 'cause of how effective it was.
Harley (26m 59s):
I appreciate that. Yeah. The rice tide, I'm gonna take a look, a treatment for malignant hypertension before the advent of drugs. It actually worked very well. Thank you. I I you've given me some ammunition. I appreciate that.
Brian (27m 12s):
Yeah, yeah. Well we've had on, I've had debates on the, on the podcast with, you know, carnivores and, and you know, pro metabolic individuals. And so yeah. Now
Harley (27m 23s):
Out of curiosity, when when you hear, and this is sort of really symptomatic of the state that health is in today, it's become so politicized if I tell people, you know, drink pasteurized milk because the chance of you or your children getting foodborne illness is exponentially lower. You have people politically who get really upset. They're like, no, have raw milk and go to the farm and suck it outta the teats yourself. And so with that being said of of the people that are standing on a podium yelling the carnivore diet, which I think is of, of, of all the fad diets I've seen in 34 years of practice, perhaps the stupidest, at least it's up there. Do they have a university degree in nutrition?
Harley (28m 4s):
How many of these people actually have a university a degree? They're trained in the field of nutrition.
Brian (28m 10s):
Hey everyone, quick interruption here. If you are looking to gain energy, lose inches around your waist and build strength, well look no further than my book, the Step Ladder System, six Steps to Lifelong Health and Vitality. What you get with the book is my full step-by-step plan and blueprint that I've worked with all my clients with packed into one book with part one, you're gonna lay the foundation, tackle any common challenges that might come in your way. Part two is my six pillar blueprint, how to set you yourself up with a solid plan and know exactly what to do when life throws any curve balls. And lastly, step three are learning to implementation a plan for getting results over the next weeks and beyond.
Brian (28m 54s):
So there you have it. I'll leave a link in the show notes for my stepladder system book now back to the podcast. Yeah, I mean the, the, the big, the biggest pusher of the carnivore diet for a long time, And now he's backed off it quite a bit, was Dr. Paul Saladino, who was a, I wanna say psychiatrist. What's that?
Harley (29m 15s):
Psychiatrist, yeah,
Brian (29m 17s):
Yeah,
Harley (29m 18s):
Yeah. He's also the guy that used to be vegan.
Brian (29m 20s):
Right? Right.
Harley (29m 21s):
He's also, he's had five different things where he's, you know, and so he has no, he has no nutrition training. He is a, he surfed the web and taught himself. And so psychiatrists do not have nutrition training in med school. You get, I think it's 90 minute lecture in first year med school. I know. 'cause I give it at a med school. So it comes back full circle. People that tend to be promoting extremes are looking for clip bait, they're looking for attention and they tend to not really have sound fundamentals of truly understanding nutrition in the human body.
Brian (29m 54s):
Yeah. And, and to his, let's just say defense, he has backed off. And I think he, he tried it initially. He might have been having some skin issues and eczema and things like this and maybe was having some reactions and I think like went full bore into the carnivore, but now is implementing plenty of carbohydrates. But,
Harley (30m 14s):
But, but don't you think there is a fiduciary duty if you claim to be a physician? Right. And you, you know, to do no harm, that maybe you shouldn't be using your platform to promote extreme diets. If you keep flip flopping between those diets, I, I think leave it to the professionals who are trained just as though I'm not a psychiatrist, then I would never, I'd never pretend to be one. 'cause that's not my training.
Brian (30m 35s):
Right. No, I, I I do agree with you. I think nowadays just with the way social media is and the platforms that people can put themselves on and, and build a following, you know, they can sort of say what, what works for, well, they could say what they want pretty much. But I think it all comes down to, I always tell people like, self experiment on yourself. You know, I think that's the best way of, of learning what, what, what works for you.
Harley (31m 2s):
I mean, to some extent Sure. Yeah. But as somebody who's in practice, again, Paul Saladino, he's not in practice. He's not seeing patients all day, every day for nutrition. I, I, I have done this for probably when, since he was a, a teenager. Right. And I can tell ya that a self experimentation on some level is okay for some people. But, you know, a lot of, a lot of people have body dysmorphia and are already very confused. And I think giving them extreme radical diets to experiment on themselves, I think is not necessarily a good thing. You know, I have kids, I I wouldn't say, you know, try some radical thing kids and, and do some crazy radical diet to see how it works on you.
Harley (31m 45s):
I, I, I don't think that's a good idea, especially when it's not founded in proper science, I think. Yeah. It's too complicated for most people. We have a really obese country, so I think giving people extreme radical messaging to try on their bodies perhaps is not the best way to go.
Brian (32m 1s):
Yeah, no, I would agree. I would agree. What about, what about fats? You know, I know, you know, we've talked a lot about carbs, fats from the most part, from what I'm, you know, what I use with some of my clients, like 20 to 30% of the diet. Is this something that you talk about in your book a little bit, is how people should implement their fats?
Harley (32m 22s):
Yeah, I, I think fats are important. You know, when you're, when you have a tree and you want the tree to thrive, you need air and, and you need sunlight and you need water. And for us to thrive, we need carbohydrates and proteins and fats. We just are eating way too much fat. And I think there are different kinds of fat and certain fats have more health benefits than other fats, which is not to say there isn't, there's, there's no such thing as a forbidden ingredient. Anything you want, you should have in within reason and balance. And so I use this hand gesture called path. So PATH. Yeah. So it's a palm full of carbohydrates, the amount that can fit in your palm.
Harley (33m 3s):
So legumes, whole grains, fruits that fit in your, in your palm, a a for all the vegetables that you want. There's no minimum, but there's also no maximum tea and path is for the mass of your thumb of healthy fat. So from the base to the tip, this much avocados, nuts, seeds, olives, and, and h for the mass, at least the mass of your hand of protein. So I really simplify it for people because if I give them a percentage, have this percentage of your diet from this and this percentage, and that, that means they have to calculate how many calories they're consuming every single meal and every single day, which some people are okay to do. But, you know, that often becomes pathological at a certain point.
Harley (33m 45s):
It's not a sustainable way to live. It's, it's somewhat antisocial, weighing your food and measuring it and counting your calories. And so it, it's okay for some people, but I think the, the big picture of the hand gestures are pretty helpful if you are to look at a macronutrient breakdown. I I tell people 50 to 60% of your diet should be carbohydrate and about 30% from protein and about 20% from fat. Yeah.
Brian (34m 11s):
That's, yeah. I, I I think like, just being in this space for so long, like, and seeing extremes on both ends, it's like it all comes back to the balanced approach. Right.
Harley (34m 24s):
Exactly. By the way, I wanted to show you something. I'm having a banana. Oh my god. Do you understand how many Americans think that having a banana is bad? If you're trying to be lean, you know, and, and, and, and this having a bite of a banana will put people over the edge, yet they're okay having coconut fat.
Brian (34m 44s):
Yeah.
Harley (34m 45s):
Spread on a, you know, it's really crazy. So cheers to the carbs.
Brian (34m 51s):
Oh yeah. I mean I, I've been implementing a quite a bit of fruit in my diet, and I would say, and I know you said even fruit, I mean, I, I think even dried fruit there can play, there could be a place for it. I think maybe you, I know you said maybe not, but is it because maybe 'cause there could be an overconsumption of that. And then you mentioned fruit juice. Do, there's actually quite a bit, I, I think there's quite a bit of studies showing that fruit juice, there's some benefits there as well. But are you worried about fruit juice when it comes to, there's overconsuming
Harley (35m 24s):
I think when we talk about obesity and when we talk about health, we also talk about processing foods and processing ingredients. And I think the closer you can get to eating a food in its natural state, the healthier that ingredient is for you. And it tends to have a lower caloric density. If you take a look at dried fruits, calorical, calorie wise, they're anywhere from two to six times more calorically dense per gram than the fruit in, its in its natural state. And yeah, there is the, the potential of, of eating a massive amount of calories if you're not paying attention. And so someone eating dried mangoes, you wanna talk about a calorically dense food, look at a bag of dried mangoes, I mean, thousands of calories of just sugar.
Harley (36m 12s):
So that's, that's one thing. I think having a high water fruit or high water vegetable is a huge part of satiety it, you know, and when it comes to juicing, well first on dried fruits, there's also the, a lot of added sugars and oils to certain dried fruits as well. So if you look at dried cranberries and dried mangoes Yeah, right. Look at the ingredients, you'll see oils and sugars in there as well. So, so calorically den from a calorie density perspective and over consuming them, I like to stay away from dried fruits unless it's to season something and you're just using a little bit of it, freeze dried fruits are a little bit different. But, but for the most part, dried fruits, I try, I try and stay away from, unless it's a dessert juicing, I do not like, and juicing is a, is a dessert.
Harley (36m 59s):
I love it as a dessert, a seven day branch. I love nothing better than a really good orange juice. I love a good juice, but it's a treat and you need to view it that way. And so, you know, if I have a glass about this big and I want to make apple juice, how many apples do you think it would take to make this much apple juice? Five apples. So let's say an apple has 85 calories, so you're now consuming 425 calories of sugar. Zero fiber, zero fiber, whereas, and you're not full after. Whereas if I was to eat an apple, right, it would take me a bit to eat. There's some time there. There's, there's a lot of research showing that how long a food takes to eat is also tied very much into your caloric intake over the course of a, of a meal in a day.
Harley (37m 46s):
And, and it's the food's in its natural state and everything works well together, and the skin and the meat and all those things are the way that they're supposed to have been designed. And I'm consuming 85 calories instead of 425, and I'm getting three grams of fiber instead of zero grams of fiber. So juice is very easy to overconsume. There's no ity components in juice. The oxidation of the nutrients in juice happens the second you juice them. So though you'll see on a bottle that, you know, having this much orange juice has this much vitamin C, those calculations are based on the ingredients used to make the juice, not the juice in its final stage.
Harley (38m 27s):
So if you were to put that juice in a bomb krier, it would probably have a different nutrient profile than the ingredients used to make that juice.
Brian (38m 35s):
Do you look at juicing and smoothies differently? Because I know you came up a completely differently smoothie. Completely. Okay. Because
Harley (38m 41s):
Have a smoothie book, I'm a huge fan of, of, of smoothies because nothing's taken away, you know, when I, I core an apple, but I leave the skin on when I put it to make my apple pie smoothie, you know, you drop berries in and they're, they're in power state, fruits and vegetables. And I always give this analogy to people like, imagine holding a piece of raw salmon in your hand. Okay, give it a little pulse, give it a little squeeze for a second. Pink droplets of liquid will fall on the floor from that raw salmon in your hand. Is that salmon juice or is that salmon water? So is there any of the protein in the salmon in that liquid? No. Any of the healthy fats in that salmon in that liquid?
Harley (39m 22s):
No. That is just the water that is, you know, part of that protein with some of the natural dyes of, of that salmon that are in that water. There's, there's no nutrient value of that. And so when you take a beautiful vegetable that's been cared for and planted and harvested, and you take a, a spinach and you squeeze that spinach and you end up with green water, you, you're not getting a lot of the benefits of eating spinach. You're not getting most of the benefits, you're not getting any of the fiber and a lot of the iron. And, and, and so I think there's this confusion that if you see something a certain color, then it must have a nutrients representative of that color. But when you blend it, there's nothing being taken away.
Harley (40m 4s):
Everything that was in that food is still in that food. So that's why I'm a big fan of blending and smoothies as opposed to juicing.
Brian (40m 12s):
Yeah, okay. That makes sense. And what would you say, I like to ask this question and may you've, maybe you've already answered it a little bit, I think, but like, what's one thing you've changed your mind on in the past 20 years?
Harley (40m 23s):
Oh, that's a good question. I, I think I've changed my mind on a bunch of stuff. There was certain ingredients I would really try and stay away from. Like, I'll never have that. I'll never have this, I love nothing better than an incredible French butter. I mean, really, it's really how much do I have of it? And, and, And what else have I eaten that meal in that day? And, and I really changed my, my thinking like there is no bad food, there's no bad ingredient, there's a bad diet. That's it. And, and the other thing I've really changed my mind on is, as a bodybuilder, many years ago we kind of came up with the concept of a cheat day where you'd eat well all week and you'd pick one day and you'd just go ham on that day and you'd go, you know, just decadence and, and, and sloth and gluttony.
Harley (41m 13s):
And so much so that, I remember working on a film with a client in the mid nineties, gosh, in the mid nineties. And, and the client, we were getting ready, he had to look like he was in prison and he had to look like he'd been working out to get revenge and to come out and kill Sharon Stone and Dennis Qua. And, and he ate so lean and we had him doing all the right things and he looked fantastic. And we would have a cheat day on the weekends and we would pick a different city and we would buy tickets to that city and fly there and just eat our way through that city and then come back to film for the beginning of the week. And what I found was we'd start our day with an incredible brunch, waffles and pancakes and all these great things. And, and, and then we planned, you know, we'd go to this famous deli for lunch and then we'd go to this pizza place in the afternoon.
Harley (41m 57s):
And we, by the way, after brunch, I was full the rest of the day. I was forcing myself to eat these decadent things because it's cheat day. This is when you gotta do it. Right. And also this word cheat has has negative comment connotations. You know, it has to do with the feeling ashamed of what you're doing. It's bad, you're cheating. Right? So I completely changed things around. So instead of a cheat day, I have two free meals a week, FREE free, don't use the word cheat, I use the word free and free to do what you want. Maybe you don't want to eat heavy, maybe you still wanna EATCLEAN. That's, that's totally up to you. They're free meals. You do whatever you want. And they're two meals and not a day.
Harley (42m 37s):
And so a day has three meals for the most part and, and sometimes more. And whereas two meals throughout the week, you can put wherever you want. You gotta wedding party to go to on a Saturday. Great. There's your meal. And then the following Wednesday you have a birthday party, there's another one. So you, you can split them up. They're free. There's no structure to them. And we've removed any guilt or negativity associated with them that I've changed that for sure.
Brian (43m 1s):
Yeah, I like that. Two free meals a week. There's your one right there. No, that's a, that's a clean one. The banana if you're watching or not watching. Very interesting. What is your routine like? I, we talk a lot about routines. I'm a big routine guy. Yeah. What's like your typical morning or evening routine just to get you ready for the day or to sort of let you get you ready for sleep?
Harley (43m 27s):
Well, I mean, today's a great example. So I, I wake up, I have three little kids. I tend to wake up before them in the mornings. I'm a huge coffee fanatic. Actually. My, my job in the military was, I was a caffeine scientist for three years. Oh. So a big fan of caffeine in moderation and used properly, big, big fan of coffee specifically. So I have my coffee routine in the morning where I make myself a, a cortado or macchiato and, and I make myself a breakfast. Breakfast is probably my most robust meal of the day. Hmm. And so, whether it be sweet or savory, this morning I had eight white french toast where I use a, a high fiber bread, soak it in egg whites and cinnamon and, and put some mash berries on top.
Harley (44m 10s):
Yesterday I had a smoothie day before I had an omelet. So for me, breakfast is huge. I don't think I've ever left my house in the morning without breakfast. Anyone who uses the excuse of I didn't have time. I, I never understood not having time for breakfast. Mm. Because it's not as though you had anything beforehand that you were running late for. You decide when you start your day Right. I get not having time for lunch. You're in the middle. You're way, I get it. I don't like it. But I, I understand that I don't, I never understood not having time for breakfast or dinner because your day doesn't start until you have breakfast and dinners after your, your day is done.
Brian (44m 43s):
Well, I think it's the people that get up late and then they have to go to work and
Harley (44m 47s):
You slept in. Right. Don't tell me you didn't have time for No. And even then, you know, today we have so many of these great ready to drinks. Sure. You know, grab a, grab a CorePower, grab a slate milk, grab something, grab a fruit, grab, grab a yogurt. So there really is no excuse to not have some, some kind of nutrients in morning. So I'll do that. I'll have my breakfast. I'll have my coffee. I'll, I'll go go to the office. I'm at the office most of the day when I'm not traveling. And I'll, I'll have lunch. And for lunch. Lately I've been doing a shihi Don, for those of you who don't know a lot about Japanese food, it's the easiest thing ever. It sounds more exotic than it is. It's just a bowl of steam rice with a bunch of salmon sashimi. And I have some cucumber slices on top and it's so, so delicious and so filling.
Harley (45m 31s):
And it's right in that, with that path acronym. And then I'll, I'll have probably a ready to drink at some point in the day. Little protein drink that's pre-made, whether it be slate milk or CorePower or something like that. And some berries. I love, I love berries. And then dinner is always different. But I'm a, I'm a, I love fish. And I'll have some kind of fish generally with some kind of a whole grain or carbohydrate and then some kind of vegetable. And, and then for dinner for me, or, or bedtime for me is a very, very big one. So I go to bed very early. I try to go to bed early. I watch some brainless show with my wife in bed, like love island or something like that.
Harley (46m 13s):
And, and I, I try not to watch right up to bedtime. What I like to do is I like to put on music on my phone with a timer. I put an eye mask on I and, and i, I closed my eyes in a room that's about 69 degrees, 68 degrees. And, and next, see, you know, tomorrow
Brian (46m 33s):
In, in your workout routine, you used to be a, used to be a, was it a powerlifter or you were
Harley (46m 38s):
Bodybuilder? Bodybuilder. Yeah. Workout routine. I strength train. I just actually change it up. I three times a week for about 45 minutes. I split my body parts up into three days. At this point, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm 5 11, 2 20. I don't wanna put on more muscle mass. I just wanna maintain what I have throughout life and, and be pain free. My training partner travels for most the summer. And so I train myself and when I do Now, I change my workouts. So instead of three days a week for 45 minutes, I do six days a week for about 20 minutes. Hmm. And a little less volume, two body parts, two, two exercises a day. Go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, and I'm done.
Harley (47m 19s):
Hmm. So I'm really enjoying this, this really short focused, more often workouts.
Brian (47m 26s):
Yeah. We've, I've talked about it before on the podcast. These micro workouts, I think they're great. Like 20 minutes done. You know, just takes the excuses out, you know,
Harley (47m 37s):
And by the way, you take someone who's super fit and you, you have them join me for these 20, 25 minute workouts, it will kick their ass. There's a, a former Mr. Olympia who's a, a good friend of mine and he's such a great guy. It's funny growing up, I had a poster of him, he doesn't know this. I had a poster of him in my locker of like a body that I wanted to have. And he's just turning 60. And we spoke a few months ago and he is like, dude, I'm just getting back into the gym again and I can't do what I used to do back in the days. And you know, I need to change my workouts around. And so i's like, All right, let's ditch the 90 minute workouts. Let's try these 30 minute workouts. And so he's just posted the other day in social media, the picture of you've never seen a 60-year-old look like this.
Harley (48m 21s):
He's like, Harley shorter workouts are everything man. Thank you.
Brian (48m 25s):
Yeah. Yeah. You def definitely gotta make changes as you get like the 40 plus I'd say.
Harley (48m 32s):
I think so. And I think, you know, quite often our approach to working out is based on what people before us did to workout, not necessarily science. And we do as much as we can. Do we try and maximize workouts as opposed to what's the least we need to do to get the most. And if you look back at Arthur Jones who created Nautilus and really was one of the modern day founding fathers of applied exercise science. Applied exercise science. And he worked with Mike Menser, who was, I think runner up Arnold Schwarzenegger and eight or nine years in a row had the, I think the only perfect score ever in the Mr. Olympia from a physique perspective. And he was all about short workouts.
Harley (49m 12s):
In fact, the Nautilus strength training equipment that you see back in the day, it came with it a program where you do one set per body part per day. Oh yeah, sure. You're done. Yeah. And with Mike Menzer, the workouts were very, very short. And with Doreen Yates, one of the other most prolific Mr. Olympians, the workouts were very, very short. And my, my training has always been very, very short. My first book I wrote was called Five Factor Fitness. And it was how I got Howie Berry ready for Catwoman and we worked out five days a week. 'cause we shot on set five days a week and the, the, we had 30 minute lunch breaks. And so we'd have to work out in that and she'd come in, we'd do a five minute cardio warmup and then we would do a, a, a circuit of upper body, lower body and core five minutes each.
Harley (49m 54s):
15, 15 minutes and then a five minute cardio Cool. Down at the end, 25 minutes, five days a week. And you know, she looked phenomenal. And so, you know, yeah.
Brian (50m 4s):
Yeah. I mean there's a whole like, I know like following of the one set to failure sort of ideology I guess or you know, way of working out. And some people have really love, they love it. They, they, you know, and I think something like that, especially as you get older, easier on the joints, you know, just a focused, as long as you come in focused, then you have to have this sort of, this like mindset going in one set, the failure and done. I think it could be pretty effective.
Harley (50m 34s):
Yeah. Someone gave me a great analogy yesterday of the, they, they're really into detailing their car and they have these vintage cars and there's certain cleansers they use that man, they work so well, but sometimes a little too well and they take off more than you need. Hmm. And what they're learning over time of really owning these cars is you want to use a, a, a less intense cleaning technique cleansers that are less powerful and maybe just take the surface off. 'cause if you go too hard, too deep for too long, you're gonna take off the base paint of the car. And I think the same, we can talk about our body as you go too deep, too hard, too aggressive. Not only do you train the muscle you wanna train, but you tend to really stress and tax your joints and connective tissue and ligaments in and in a way that is detrimental over long term.
Brian (51m 20s):
Yeah, no, that's a great analogy. And I also too, just avoiding injury. Yeah. You know, less chance of being injured if you're doing one set versus three or four, especially if you've been lifting for 30, 40 years. Like, like you said, like the car analogy. I like to also sort of finish up with this question, what's one tip you'd give someone if they were, you know, maybe looking to get their body back to what it once was 10, 15 years ago? And they're, they're sort of let things slide a bit And now they're trying to get back into it.
Harley (51m 50s):
I I would say, you know, stop staring at that picture of you from 20 years ago. You're not, that's not you anymore. That that was the t you know, 20 year younger. You know, I've got pictures in my office of me as a, as a bodybuilder on magazine covers. And I look at those and I'm like, you know, that's pretty cool that I did that. Then today I'm, I'm a guy in his fifties with, with the lifetime of, of battle bruises from, from different injuries and hockey and, and, and I don't want to compare myself today to that person. Then I wanna say Alright, the Harley of today, how do I make me look the best I can look and, and not using it from old pictures, but rather focus on the process.
Harley (52m 35s):
So I judge myself by what I do and not by how I used to look or not even, you know, how I look today. Because if I focus on the things I have control over, which is what I'm doing, you know, what I'm eating, how many times, how many steps I take each day, how often I strength train, that's all I can control. Focus on the things that you directly can control your actions and judge yourself on the actions, not on an old picture of you and not a number on a scale.
Brian (53m 3s):
Yeah, no, I love that. 'cause yeah, we're all different, right? 20 years ago we, we could do things that we couldn't do now. So it's like, yeah, just take with what you have now and work with it And you know, I think a lot of things is just taking that first step too, right? Like, yep. I always talk to people about like walking like some, a simple task, right? That you can do it, it's easy to do, but it's easy not to do. So it's just about like, there's a great book called A Slight Edge and the author's escaping, but he talks a lot about that sort of compounding effect and, you know, anyway, so yeah, great analogy though.
Harley (53m 38s):
Yeah, I, I love that you gave me the Walter Kemper thing. I'm gonna read up on that and the Mark Bell thing, I didn't know that about Mark and so you've given me some gems that, that I appreciate.
Brian (53m 48s):
Oh yeah, I mean, yeah, well you type in sugar diet, you'll find plenty of stuff and Mark will probably be at the top of it, but he's actually backed off a bit, a little bit from it initially I think he was like all hard, like this was like the end all. Yeah,
Harley (54m 1s):
But that's, that's a great example. I mean you talked about Paul Saldino, you know, talking about whatever extreme diet he's promoting at the time and then he is like, oh, I was completely wrong. Let me go to the next one. I was gonna the next one. At a certain point, when do you stop listening to someone who's promoting an extreme diet and then even says, oh, I was wrong. Let me do a different thing now. And so, you know, bless Mark and, and a, he's a lovely guy. I've spoken to him and I think he's, he is only good intentions, right? But if you have a platform, I think, you know, perfect your messaging and if you wanna experiment on an N of one and you're the one that doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna work for anybody else ever again. It could maybe for some people, but that's when it comes back to evidence-based knowledge. And when I'm speaking to you, I'm not speaking to you about the carb reset because it worked for me and, and not only because it worked for the 1500 clients I've worked with, but because this is all based in plethora of evidence-based published peer-reviewed knowledge that we have.
Harley (54m 58s):
And I'm not gonna flip flop a month from now and say, you know, remember I said you could have sweet potatoes, I was wrong. Don't do it. So I think in, in a clickbait era that we're in, right? I think listen to people that have the experience with seeing patients on a day-to-day basis, clients on a day-to-day basis for, for many, many years have wisdom of that, but also have the evidence-based knowledge of having studied the craft or the field that they're teaching you about.
Brian (55m 24s):
Yeah, no, it's a perfect point. I, I totally agree and I think in general, just with everything going on in the world, like there's a lot of people who, who use their platform and say things that they probably shouldn't be saying in, in areas that they don't know anything about. But that's, you know, anyways, I'm not gonna go down, but that could be nutrition and non nutrition things in general, but well Harley, this was great. Where's the best place for people to find you? For?
Harley (55m 52s):
My website is Harley Pasternak dot com or they can go on Instagram. I'm pretty active on Instagram, which is just Harley Pasternak, H-A-R-L-E-Y-P-A-S-T-E-R-N-A-K. The book, the Carb Reset is available for presale right now. I'm really, really proud of this. I'm excited about this book. I think if you're someone who wants to lose weight but really lose weight in an enjoyable, sustainable way and keep it off. If you're someone who wants to be healthy, if you're someone who wants to know more about nutrition and if you're someone who wants to feel like the best, best to you and look like the best to you, then order a copy today.
Brian (56m 27s):
Love it. And we'll definitely put links in the show notes and yeah, I really enjoyed our talk today, Harley, thanks for coming on.
Harley (56m 33s):
Likewise. Take care.
Brian (56m 35s):
Thanks for listening to the show. I know there's thousands of podcasts out there and you chose to listen to mine. I will put a link in the show notes if you want to connect with my guest. And if you are looking for one-on-one consulting with me, I will put a free 15 minute link so you can set up a call to see if you're fit for my six month health breakthrough program. So thanks again, feel free to rate and subscribe. I would love that to help support the podcast. And till next time, have a great rest of the day and I will see you on my next podcast. Thanks so much.
