Ben (0s):
I think people tend to find what works for them if they're actually looking at the blood work. We, I just think we have to be careful around how much data we're ac accumulating and how we're actually using the data. Because at the end of the day, right, we still need to have these foundational principles in place. And this kind of rain supreme for everyone is like, you know, our, our sleep schedule, drinking enough water, moving our body frequently enough with enough intensity, right? Knowing what it looks like to consume enough protein relative to our total calorie intake, revolving the vast majority of our diet around whole nutrient dense foods, right?
Ben (42s):
Any way you swing the pendulum around how much carb or how little carb, or how much fat, or how little fat, it's still gonna revolve around those fundamental principles.
Brian (53s):
This week I interviewed the founder of Body Systems, Ben Brown Body Systems is a global and health nutrition coaching company Behind the revolutionary PrimeFit os a system that has helped clients lose over 15,000 pounds and reclaim their lives With more than two decades of experience. He has coached Fortune 500 execs, professional athletes, along with thousands of driven men and women seeking sustainable health solutions. We discussed how different styles of eating work for different individuals, along with Problems with too much restriction. The Importance of Accountability, Taking Willpower out of the equation and is one tip to get your body back to what it once was.
Brian (1m 33s):
Really enjoyed my interview with Ben. I know you will too. Thanks so much for listening and enjoy the show. All right. Welcome to the Get Lean, Eat Clean podcast. My name is Brian Gryn and I have Ben Brown on Welcome to the show,
Ben (1m 46s):
Brian. Thanks for having me, man. It's a pleasure to connect.
Brian (1m 48s):
Yeah, nice. Connecting with like-minded individuals. We've been in the same space for probably over 20 years. Your, your company's called Body Systems And what led you down the path of health and fitness and, and coaching?
Ben (2m 5s):
Yeah, I mean, I, I think if you have spoken with enough health practitioners or people in the, in the health and fitness space, you probably realize pretty quickly that for most of us, it's usually a pain to purpose journey. In other words, usually something, there's something going on with us that we need to figure out along the way and or someone we love very dearly that propels us to learn as much as we can about a given topic. And, and then, you know, kind of realize that by virtue of doing that we have accrued a certain skillset. And that very much was my case. I grew up not too terribly far from you, Minneapolis, Minnesota, played sports growing up, had a couple, you know, injuries torn ACL got sort of enamored with the physical therapy process through my rehab, and then was also dealing with a number of stomach issues growing up that conventional medicine couldn't really figure out.
Ben (3m 2s):
And kinda a lot of acid reflux IBS that would throw up all the time after meals and did this sort of obligatory all the, all the obligatory diagnostic sta stuff through our conventional modalities, the endoscopy, and was on all the antiacid medications and nothing really seemed to be helping me, Brian. And so I had to take it upon myself to really just start to study and understand and learn. And, you know, what was interesting was along the way, and no point did any of the doctors ask me about like what I was eating, you know, And what I was drinking and stress and gut and, and look at gut health And, you know, all of these kind of perhaps more holistic, but in my mind just obvious root cause answers.
Ben (3m 56s):
And, and that's what I learned, you know, through my undergraduate studies. I played rugby for University of Arizona, I came up to Arizona State University here in Phoenix. I studied strength and conditioning all along the way. I was continuing to learn from mentors along the nutrition and supplementation and functional medicine route. And eventually I went back to school for a second master's degree in clinical nutrition. And it was through all of that that I was able to eventually, you know, kind of diagnose my own stuff. I had a nasty bacterial infection in my gut called h pylori that I was able to treat through natural remedies, just through better nutrition, through supplementation And, you know, really started to understand just how interconnected everything is.
Ben (4m 48s):
And that was also the origin of my company name Body Systems. Because at the end of the day, we have to look at everything as a whole and we have all of these synergistic and symbiotic body systems that work together. And so that's kind of the way that we approach our coaching practice from a nutrition, fitness, lifestyle mindset approach.
Brian (5m 12s):
Yeah, and I mean, you've been at it for 20 plus years now. Is there one thing that maybe you've changed your mind on? There's been, there's been,
Ben (5m 21s):
There's been a lot of stuff that I've changed my mind on and I kind of pride myself on. I I was telling you right as we were jumping on the call, 'cause I was adjusting some stuff in my, I I teach kinesiology at Arizona State University and, and so I try and stay very rooted in evidence, but I'm not all, you know, all about only the evidence, right? Right. But having been in academia, you know, my entire career in conjunction with obviously also being in the trenches, if you will, and working with clients day in and day out, both in person And now virtually, like, I have a pretty deep understanding of where the evidence applies versus anecdotally what works And what doesn't.
Ben (6m 9s):
And I think it's important about to, to, to stay abreast of the evidence and what's coming out and, And what we're informed upon And what re you know, research does diligence to, so that we can have the ability to change our mind if and where it's relevant. And so, you know, there's, there's obviously in the nutrition and fitness space, I think probably all of your listeners can agree it's this sort of vast and seemingly overwhelming amount of conflicting and confusing information around what you should do with your nutrition and exercise. And a lot of it's really unsubstantiated. And so, and, and, and candidly, when I was coming up, I was, I was leaning into or being fed a lot of that nonsense as well to the degree that it influenced my practice.
Ben (6m 58s):
And so just as a, as a really brief example, the ways that I had to heal my gut were very restrictive, right? Elimination diet, no sugar, no gluten, no dairy, no soy, no alcohol. And I was very, very regimented to it for a period of time until I just couldn't maintain it. However, because it worked for me, that became my ethos and the dogma that I was, you know, presenting to my clientele. And it, it very much was kind of like this polarizing my way or the highway approach. And when someone invariably couldn't stick with it, I didn't take any ownership over it, it became, well, they're not serious enough, you know, they're not willing to do the work, blah, blah, blah.
Ben (7m 47s):
When in reality I couldn't even be consistent with it. And I would be quote unquote perfect Monday through Friday afternoon. And then I remember vividly, you know, we, my wife and I were living in an apartment complex in North Scottsdale, and there was a Whole Foods like just two blocks away. And Friday afternoon I would get home from training clients and I would go over to Whole Foods and I would get like wine and gluten-free beer and pizza and like, you know, gluten-free snack foods. And it would just be like a weekend kind of bender. And then I would show back up to work on Monday with this facade of like, I'm morally superior.
Ben (8m 32s):
And it was a slippery, slippery slope that I've, I've since come to the realization that we, you know, this sort of perfectionist mentality doesn't belong in the space that we, we work in.
Brian (8m 48s):
Yeah, I mean that's a good point. And also you mentioned like sort of looking at like studies And, you know, things that have been portrayed, you know, I would say like both in the media and like you have influencers who all they do is bring up different studies that are done on this, on that, on, you know, creatine or this, and, and I think there's a, there's a use for that, but like, like you said, you sort of have to, there is a, it has to be a little bit of a self experimentation when it comes to any of this stuff. Like what works for one person might not work for someone else. I think you're starting to really see that. So, you know, you have people who are carnivores and they've been thriving, you know, if in from their sense they've been thriving for a while, but there's other people who just cannot, cannot go that route, or they have, and they've totally, it's just hasn't worked.
Brian (9m 41s):
And it, and it's sort of, they've gone backwards
Ben (9m 44s):
A hundred percent. And, and this is the, the remarkable thing about human physiology as metabolically, we, we are very malleable and flexible and we are built and we have evolved through hormetic stressors, right? Through stressors that force adaptation in, in a good way to allow for our existence through heat. Sure. Through cold, through feast, through famine. And by that very nature, we can get away with a, you know, a lot again evidenced by the standard American diet and the fact that, listen, okay, we, we are slowly killing ourselves, right? We're, we're more obese, sicker, more metabolically unhealthy than we've ever been, yet we are surviving and we're thriving to some degree.
Ben (10m 30s):
I mean, through conventional medicine, we're able to stay alive longer than we ever have. Not necessarily a quality of life, but nonetheless. But a hundred percent to your point is just because carnivore works a a remarkably well for one person, doesn't mean it, it works for another person or doesn't mean it's gonna continue to work for that same person. And I've spoken with hundreds of people now who have been down that road or alternative roads, or have leveraged intermittent fasting or have leveraged Mediterranean diet or, you know, even a high carbohydrate, you know, low fat approach.
Ben (11m 12s):
And, and that's where I think, you know, we have to revolve it around the season of life that we're in our, our stressors, our physiological load, our lifestyle factors. And that often speaks much more to the type of dieting that we, that's going to work for us, because at the end of the day, right, we can agree that it's really just about what we can be consistent with.
Brian (11m 46s):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I had a guest on Dr. Sam Shea, smart guy, interesting interview, and he actually does a lot of his coaching around genes. Yeah. You know, there's been, there's been more and more like, you know, gene snips obviously, but that can sort of tell ya, you know, give at least give you an idea of what road you should travel. Like, you know, how you metabolize certain things. Yeah. Like, I know for, for, for me, for example, I like, I'm very sensitive to caffeine. So like I, I have to like, I, I, there, I remember when I, I was not a big caffeine drinker, but I would use it sometimes and I noticed that like in the afternoons I would crash.
Brian (12m 27s):
Like, I was just like, so I have to just like use a little bit of it, but like someone else can, there's other people who drink, you know, three cups a day and they're like, I'm, I'm fine and they can fall asleep and things like that. So, I mean, I think there's like, there's a confusion in the sense that there's so much information now you can find out about, you know, what you can do in all this testing that you can sort of drive yourself crazy. But on the other hand, it could be a good thing too because you can sort of find what works for your genetic profile per se versus someone else's.
Ben (12m 60s):
Yeah, I mean, I just, I, I was having a conversation with a group I was presenting for a group of executives a couple days ago at a conference, and we were having this conversation about genetic testing. And because I do think it's valuable, especially if we're talking about something like, okay, you're, you're a, a fast or slow caffeine metabolite or metabolizer or you have a gene genetic predisposition to, you know, have a higher risk for cardiovascular disease. Right? And so, you know, it probably would be advantageous for you to keep your saturated fat intake significantly on the, on the lower side of things, right? And, and, and revolve more of your diet around a Mediterranean style diet, right?
Ben (13m 40s):
More monounsaturated fats, less saturated fat versus someone who, who doesn't have that, who could potentially get away with more of a carnivore or keto based approach. I think people tend to find what works for them if they're actually looking at the blood work. We, I just think we have to be careful around how much data we're accumulating and how we're actually using the data. Because at the end of the day, right, we still need to have these foundational principles in place and this kind of reign supreme for everyone. It's like, right, you know, our, our sleep schedule, drinking enough water, moving our body frequently enough with enough intensity, right?
Ben (14m 22s):
Knowing what it looks like to consume enough protein relative to our total calorie intake, revolving the vast majority of our diet around whole nutrient dense foods, right? Any way you swing the pendulum around how much carb or how little carb or how much fat or how little fat, it's still gonna revolve around those fundamental principles. And so I usually will speak to like, okay, let's develop the skills to infuse those first, because very much this is skill development. You have to know how to plan and to prepare, right? And to communicate with your significant other and to make better decisions given the environment and the circumstances that you're in and to control for your social support system or lack thereof, right?
Ben (15m 13s):
All of these things are kind of the, to some degree, intangible components of why people ultimately are successful or are they, or they're not, and much more so than just eat this and just don't eat these things. Would you agree?
Brian (15m 29s):
Yes. Yeah. Like, like you mentioned, start with like the basics, get those down and then like if you're still having maybe issues, then you can maybe do more testing because I, I agree. I think if you're just right off, I mean, if you're just testing right off the bat, but you haven't worked on optimizing your sleep then, and you're, you know, then you're, I think you're going down a slippery slope of, okay, I can just keep testing until, until like, you know, forever and as opposed to just starting with the basics, like you said, sleep, stress management, eating whole foods and, and, and fairly clean and just, you know, fo focus on the main principles first.
Brian (16m 9s):
I agree. Yeah. What, what would you say, like, I'm a big like daily habit guy. Are there certain habits that you try to implement for yourself, either morning or evening routine that sort of helps you either start or end the day?
Ben (16m 24s):
Both. Yeah, I think you, you nailed it right there is, is just sort of, and that's the conversation I have with so many clients of being sort of, some of the biggest needle movers that I've observed in my career is actually having an evening and a morning routine, right? And, and you'd be amazed at, I'm sure you wouldn't be amazed, but I think people in general would be amazed or if you're listening to this, consider, do you actually have a dedicated set structured bedtime and wake up routine, right? That you almost are religious to, because if you don't, it's very hard to optimize for the things that we already established are important, specifically your sleep, you know, sleep quality and sleep quantity.
Ben (17m 7s):
So I think developing the skills and the clarity around what that looks like. So getting to bed on time, making sure, you know, you're winding down, getting rid of the screen, doing all of the obligatory sleep environment stuff that I'm sure you probably have spoken to on your show so that you can get good quality sleep and then waking up at a reasonable time. And usually if you have a good bedtime routine in place, oftentimes it lends itself to like waking up usually without an alarm clock at a reasonable time. Because I find that so many of the guys and, and, and women that I work with can be very, very productive in those earlier morning hours.
Ben (17m 47s):
Yeah. But it's predicated on the structure that's enforced the night before. And when you can bookend your day with those things, it becomes a lot easier to then continue to make good decisions for the rest of the day to not be overwhelmed, right? Waking up late or hitting the alarm clock or being stressed, or the kids waking you up, then you're late for school or we have to get breakfast ready 'cause we weren't prepared, or their lunches need to get packed. And then it's sort of like you're perpetually running behind or reactionary for the entirety of the day. And I think a lot of us run, you know, run that way and it's not beneficial instead of actually being in control.
Ben (18m 31s):
But it takes an overt level of effort, again, planning and preparation to say, Hey, what am I, you know, here's where I'm going to bed, here's where I'm waking up, this is what I'm doing the first hour or two of the morning, here's what I'm eating throughout the day. Like we should have a game plan in place. And oftentimes, and I'm sure you as well, I mean, we work with some hard charging, you know, successful business individuals or people who have been successful in other areas of their life and they're very, very regimented and structured, right? Show me their calendar and they have all of their business meetings to the, you know, I've got guys with 15 minute increment time slots. I got one guy who even has his bathroom breaks, you know, plugged into his calendar yet when I asked him to show me his meals, his movement, his family time, none of that stuff is in there.
Ben (19m 24s):
And it begs the question, and one of the quotes I always refer to is, show me your calendar and I'll show you your priorities. And you're telling me that your family's number one focusing on your health is, you know, up there in terms of the priorities. But all I'm seeing is that your business is number one priority. And so I think that can be a really tangible shift for someone to allow them to really start to take ownership over their behaviors in a non-negotiable and very objective and granular way so that it doesn't continue to be this ethereal quote unquote, I need to do better.
Ben (20m 5s):
I'll just do it right. I just need to stop making excuses. I just need to be more disciplined. None of that shit means anything unless we objectively have that stuff programmed in. And then are we setting the realistic expectations around it once it's in there? Is it something I can actually execute on? Yes. No. If yes, great, can I do more? If not, what can I do differently to make it work? Hmm.
Brian (20m 36s):
Yeah, great points. I mean, prioritizing yourself, right? I mean, I think a lot of it just comes down to that. 'cause obviously as you get older, there's other things that you put as your priority, whether it's your job, obviously family, family life's a big one. What would you say, like with, with, is there a common theme you find with a lot of the clients that you run into and, and how, you know, what, what is that maybe common theme or common problem? And then how do you go about solving it?
Ben (21m 6s):
Is the, is this the lack of structure a common theme?
Brian (21m 10s):
Yeah.
Ben (21m 11s):
Yeah. Well, I, I think so I'll ll tell ya what the common themes are that, that I run into. So I just alluded to, to the lack of clarity and structure. That's a big one for a lot of people. I think we invariably, because of all the information that we consume, we, we quote unquote know what to do. But oftentimes following through with that becomes short-lived because what we think we need to do ends up being far more unsustainable or restrictive than it needs to be. In other words, I know I need to just cut out sugar or just cut out alcohol or just not eat carbs, right?
Ben (21m 55s):
Or I need to go train four or five days a week and I'll just go back and do what I used to do in college. And I'm a, you know, 45-year-old executive with three young kids and I don't sleep much anymore, and I'm uber stressed. It's like physiologically, metabolically, we're living in a different world, you know, than we used to. So the things that we used to do don't work for us anymore. And the head space and the mindset of, you know, the kind of this all or nothing approach of, of being very restrictive also doesn't work because it really goes against human psychology. And so what we typically work towards is shifting this mindset from what we call this dichotomous approach.
Ben (22m 37s):
This all or nothing, this black or white approach that's so many people live in, right? I'll just do the things, I'll white knuckle it, I'll work hard, I'll go keto, go do HCG, I'll just keep my calories super low, I'll just go start cranking the exercise. And it works until it doesn't, right? Until something comes up. We go on a trip, there's a, any excuse in the world where we hit that breaking point and we're just like, screw it, you know, I just don't want to do it anymore. And then you feel guilt, shame, regret. And so instead of living in that world and continuing to perpetuate that yo-yo cycle, what we speak to is sort of the idea of unconditional permission. It's like, dude, you, you know, once we understand the mechanism of, of weight loss and, and maintaining some semblance of a caloric deficit, then it allows you the flexibility and freedom to eat and drink the things that you want within reason, as long as you're taking ownership over those, right?
Ben (23m 39s):
So I can have someone losing weight while still eating pizza and drinking beer and eating chicken fingers and enjoying burgers out and doing all of these things. Is it more challenging? Sure. Because calories add up quicker. But once we have awareness around how they add up, then you have autonomy over those decisions, right? Once we have clarity around, well, how much protein am I consuming? How much carbohydrate, what is it? You know, what foods contribute to what, what are the biggest contributors to my high calorie intake? Oh, it's all the snack foods I'm consuming. Or late at night when I end up digging into the bag of Doritos, you know, or all those beers on the weekends, well then you are empowered to naturally start to cut back in the areas that you see fit and that are the most logical for you.
Ben (24m 31s):
So a lot of it is just giving people autonomy and ownership over this process and then helping them realize that if I know I can eat and enjoy the things that I want, but still take ownership over them, I'm a lot more likely to be able to stay consistent and feel a lot less re resistance and restriction, which are I think our, you know, human psychology pushes against. Does that make sense, Brian?
Brian (24m 60s):
Yeah. Yeah. And do you typically start with an individual, like obviously creating some clarity, but also maybe figuring out like what their caloric intake has been and where you sort of want to get that? Is that, is that sort of where you start?
Ben (25m 16s):
Yeah, So we, as part of our, our, we have a, a coaching process called our prime Fit OS process. And, and os stands for operating system. And ultimately we're helping people, as I alluded to build their own personal operating system around their nutrition, their fitness, their lifestyle, their mindset through some fundamental tools. And one of those tools is, is calorie tracking. You know, to the degree that by virtue of it, it's the same way. It's like when you meet with a financial advisor, what's the first thing that they'll have you do is you fill out, you know, a a, a budget, an expense sheet, right? Of like, well, what's coming in, what's going out? Let's get crystal clear around all of the avenues that you're spending your money, right?
Ben (26m 0s):
And when you do that, it's eyeopening. It's like, holy crap, I didn't realize how much money I'm spending on Amazon every single week, right? Or Starbucks or Netflix or whatever it is, or I didn't realize these car payments are, are adding up. And the very same thing happens with tracking our nutrition, right? So it's not something that people do forever, although some people, it's, it's such a beautiful tool, But it really helps us drive that level of awareness to the degree that automatically we have accountability. And in behavioral psychology, it's what we call the Hawthorne effect. But it's essentially the idea that when someone was watching us, we change our behaviors, right?
Ben (26m 45s):
It's like, Hey, if I'm driving down the road here, regardless of whether I'm speeding or not, and I drive by a police officer, what are you gonna do? Like, you're gonna slow down, right? And So we change our behaviors when someone else is watching. And so when I'm having clients track their food, obviously there's no judgment on my end, I'm just observing. But more importantly, they're observing and because they know there's an observer, right? They're automatically quote unquote doing better, they're eating better, they're making better decisions, they're, they're more strategic, right? They're more intentional, they're snacking less, which what does that do?
Ben (27m 26s):
It helps them control for calories, eat less, and all of a sudden scale starts to move and they're like, this is amazing. Like, I'm seeing results, but I haven't, you haven't even told me what to eat or not eat yet. How does that work? Right? Because our, you know, the conventional wisdom is just tell me what to do, just tell me what to eat, just just give me the meal plan. But that shit doesn't work long term for most people because of all the reasons I explained and all of the, the nuances and seasons of life that we find ourselves in. So our initial phase is very much what we call our priming phase. That's an assessment phase around your intake, your physical activity, your output, your sleep behaviors, your stressors, what your lifestyle looks like, and how do we identify what the low hanging fruit is, Brian, that's gonna help us, you know, ultimately move the needle in the most aggressive way with the least amount of resistance.
Brian (28m 26s):
Yeah. And I think to your point, this is why most people just need a coach because they know what to do, right? I mean, the information is out there, right? It's, it's, it's out there. It can be confusing at times, but it's out there. I think people, 90, 80, 90% of people know what to do. But it's not, it's just a matter of being held accountable and having someone sort of hold their hand through the process. And so, you know, having a coach like yourself or myself or whoever it is, just that alone can make the difference.
Ben (29m 1s):
I would, I, I couldn't possibly agree with you more. And there's, you know, something I talk about with our clients when you, you remember nine 11, right? And the planes hit the twin towers and they asked the Secretary of Defense, how could this possibly happen? Right? And he said a few things. He said, there are no knowns, right? There's things that we know, things that we just know are happening, right? And we have known unknowns. There's things that, right. We just don't know about things that we know we just don't know about.
Ben (29m 42s):
Right? Like, I know intermittent fasting's a thing, I just don't know like how it applies to me in this, in this context. But then there's unknown unknowns. There's things we just don't know that we don't know, right? And these are the blind spots that we all have, specifically around our nutrition, our lifestyle, our exercise that I think a good coach really helps shine light on. And it's the proverbial sherpa of we're all on this journey up the mountain, right? And there's, there's just a myriad of paths that we can go on. We can take the aggressive path that's gonna get us there in the fastest way, but the way down's gonna be really dangerous. Right? Or we can take this sort of long circuitous, comfortable, challenging, but you know, more reasonable approach.
Ben (30m 28s):
Or we could find something in between. But the Sherpa's job is to figure out, well, what's gonna be the right approach for the individual, for their commitment level, for their physical preparedness, for the readiness for change, for the preexisting level of knowledge, right? And, and then as we go start, you know, going down up the path, like how am I, as the Sherpa, how are we helping them navigate the roadblocks that invariably are gonna fall in their path? There's a crevice up here, we're gonna, just so you know, it's a, you've got a blind step, we gotta cross this ladder. They watch out, you know, with the weather conditions, there's potential avalanche, right?
Ben (31m 11s):
Like all of these things that they just don't know are coming. And that's the job of a good coach. And that's the very reason why someone needs a coach needs that level of accountability and support is because it's not about what you already know. And it's not even about what you know, you don't know. It's about what you don't know, you don't know, right? And it's about shining light on those so that you can get up the path the fastest, most reasonable way possible. And by the way, back down safely.
Brian (31m 47s):
I like the analogy of the Sherpa. Yeah, that's good. I actually, I was looking, I have a buddy who actually summited Everest and he now he does trips to, to base camp. I was like, that'd be a cool, cool experience.
Ben (32m 4s):
That would be a really cool experience. Yeah. Yeah.
Brian (32m 7s):
Anyways, that made me think of she's, what, what about yourself? Like Ben, how have you changed, you know, your routine? I mean, you know, I'm 45, like I've changed my routine through the years or, and my, you know, my, my fitness routine and, And you know, eating and this and that, but what things have you changed and, and like, how have you adjusted as you've gotten older?
Ben (32m 28s):
Yeah, as I appreciate you asking. I mean, I, I, I alluded to the fact that I used to be kind of pride myself on trying to be really hardcore and it just wasn't serving me. It wasn't serving my family, it was creating a lot of stress. This was early on in my career, obviously wasn't serving my clients. And so I really started to develop this more of, as I've have been describing sort of this realistic approach of like, well, okay, let's take into account the individual. Like what makes sense for this person given the season of life they're in and the circumstances. And so, you know, I'm 46, so same as you. I got three kids. I run a business, my wife runs a business. And, and so it definitely fluctuates. But you know, I also am someone who's been building these behaviors for my entire life.
Ben (33m 14s):
I played competitive sports. I've always been into health and fitness. I'm always been someone who exercises pretty consistently, you know, whether I want to go or I don't. I, you know, I, I'm, I'm pretty darn consistent with the gym. However, my behaviors in the gym, I would say have changed. I, I do a lot more machine based training now. I've had some back issues this year, some bulging discs in my back, which have contributed to me changing up some of my exercise, exercise methodology, checking my ego a little bit, backing off on, you know, some more back squats or barbell deadlifts or some of those potentially more compromising exercises, rooting more into maybe some bodybuilding style training, more flexibility based stuff.
Ben (34m 2s):
I, I've actually been doing more cardio now than I've ever done outside of obviously sports, but just from a cardiovascular health and fitness because of how important we know that is. So I find I, I do a lot more hiking and stuff outside and rucking now, especially here in Arizona, it's so beautiful this time of year. So I was out like the five days of, of hiking last week. And, and then from a nutritional standpoint, one thing I pride myself on is just, I'm always pretty good, you know? And one, one of the things I say to, I say to clients specifically is being pretty good all of the time is better than being great sometimes.
Ben (34m 45s):
And again, I just think it reinforces that mentality of like, it's kind of that like 80% mentality of like, generally I'm, you know, protein forward, lean proteins, quality food, whole foods, fruits, vegetables, minimize my alcohol intake more now than I ever have. And I used to drink probably more than, certainly more than I should have, but I don't know if you experience it with sleep and just alcohol just doesn't help in any way, shape or form.
Brian (35m 18s):
Well, yeah, no, I appreciate you sharing all that. Yeah. I mean, alcohol, I, I, I actually never was a big drinker and I think as I've gotten older, like I, I really don't drink anymore. Yeah. I just, it doesn't do anything for me. But we also don't, we eat at home a lot. I mean, we don't have kids, so. Yep. Not to say that you can't eat at home with kids, I'm sure probably easier to eat at home with kids.
Ben (35m 42s):
Oh, it is, yeah. Oh, it is.
Brian (35m 44s):
Yeah. Yeah. You don't have to go to a restaurant and cheaper. And cheaper. Yeah. So I think that's a big one that I've shifted more and more to is just cooking for ourselves and cooking at home. And, and a lot of that just comes down to preparation.
Ben (35m 60s):
Yeah. Dude, dude. Absolutely. And you know, that's where the skill comes into play. The practice of figuring out what works for you. I was having a conversation with a client yesterday and she, so this, she, she's a long time client. She's kind of on and off, been a client for maybe 12 years. And she played basketball. She played basketball in college, her husband played baseball. Her husband had a professional baseball career. And, and they have seven kids now. They have seven kids. Wow. We joke. 'cause between every kid, she's, you know, she's lost remarkable amount of weight. And, and then so, and then every time she tells me she's pregnant, and I'm just like, good lord, you know, it's kind of joking that she's learning seven
Brian (36m 47s):
Kids, what, over like what, like a 14 year span or something? Yeah.
Ben (36m 51s):
Over like, yeah, yeah. Like a 15 year span. I mean, it's, it's been remarkable. But the point is, you can imagine with that many mouths to feed how challenging the dynamics of the meal planning and preparation and they end up eating out a lot or ordering in, and it's just kind of this, this melee. And so we've really been working hard to create the semblance of structure and consistency in their weekly routine. Because the reality is like if for for those that are listening, they're probably shaking their head understanding. Because when you have kids at certain ages, like, my kids are 16 and 14 and 10, and we're doing all of the sports and all of the extracurriculars.
Ben (37m 36s):
And so on a weekly basis, it's this very dynamic kind of malleable, undulating,
Brian (37m 45s):
It's like
Ben (37m 46s):
Right. Routine, routine or lack thereof. Like sometimes you just don't know. And so you have to have these behaviors in place where we, we talk about like, okay, well you guys are pretty consistent on Monday nights of cooking dinner, so I'm just gonna have you, you know, cook a bunch of extra chicken and steak on Monday nights, right? And you're gonna make a crockpot of, or a rice cooker, you're gonna roast some carrots and you, you've got some frozen veggies in, in, in the freezer that we can, you know, reheat and that's gonna last you a couple days. And here's how we can repurpose some of those things to the kids' meals in ways that will taste good for them. And here's how you guys can repurpose those. And then when you cook on Wednesday night, we're, you know, here's what we can consider doing.
Ben (38m 29s):
So the point in all of that is, is like you said, it just takes this very necessary level of, of thought, of preparation of commitment, right? And that's, that's what has to be done if you're going to consistently manage your calorie and intake so that Brian, so that we don't have to rely on willpower or discipline because it's, it's at the end of the week, it's been a long week, we're tired, we're from work, we're tired from kids, we're tired from making decisions.
Ben (39m 9s):
And invariably that's when the screw it, let's just eat out. I'll just have a cocktail or two that bleeds into the weekend behaviors of, again, less structure, invariably more calories. And then you walk into Monday and the scales up a few pounds, and essentially you blew all of the progress that you made Monday through Thursday.
Brian (39m 35s):
Yeah. Yeah. I like what you say about like, if, if you're prepared, like you take the thought out of, or you take sort of the, you know, I'm trying to think of the words, but you take sort of the, it's
Ben (39m 46s):
The decision making you,
Brian (39m 48s):
It's the decision making out, right? Yeah.
Ben (39m 49s):
You just don't have to, you know, we have this willpower battery basically, and Right. And, and the people that are most successful have the least reliance on willpower and discipline, in other words, right? They take the self-control aspect out, out of the equation because they don't put themselves in situations that require them to have to make more decisions. If I'm an alcoholic, but I hang out at a bar, like that's gonna be a very slippery slope, right? My, my sister and her kids came in to visit this past weekend, and my wife being a good host that she is, she went out and she bought a whole bunch of treats from Trader Joe's, like the ice cream bars,
Brian (40m 39s):
Stuff that you would normally not never
Ben (40m 40s):
Have, that I would never have in my house because I know myself and I don't have like, I don't have the willpower or the control if it's in front of me, especially like I'm a sucker for good chocolate chip cookies or ice cream, like I'm going to eat this stuff and I did, you know, all weekend long and doesn't make me a bad person. It doesn't mean anything other than I'm human. And our, by the way, that's what our human brain thrives off of is sugar, salt, and fat. It's in our very DNA to root those things out. So look, if you're in environments where the stuff's around you, right?
Ben (41m 22s):
Just a matter of time before you're going to eat it. And so it's like, well, how do we create the right environment then to have that not be even a negotiable?
Brian (41m 32s):
Yeah, I was just gonna say that like, not buying things is like the a, a good, a good life hack. A good health hack is just not having it in the house. 'cause you know, we, we have like, we don't have kids, and I'm not saying kids should live off junk food, but you know, the occasional, you know, snack or, or fun little thing to eat here and there, I'm sure is in the house for most people that have kids. And the question is, can can you sort of help, you know, navigate around those,
Ben (42m 2s):
You know? Okay. Yeah. Around the just snack foods and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, well look, like I just explained, I mean, it depends on the person, it depends on what your vice is. But ultimately, I think, you know, our motto is this is the kids are gonna get exposure to all of this stuff outside of the home, whether you like it or not. And I don't care how I aggressive or restrictive, you are in the home. I, I think oftentimes the more restrictive you are, the more they root it out as they get older, but they're gonna get plenty of that stuff.
Ben (42m 42s):
Especially like, it's crazy with kids' sports now they're drinking like gator, you know, full sugar Gatorade, and they have junk food after kids are bringing donuts, they have it in their classrooms, they have candy, the parties, blah, blah, blah. It's everywhere. So our, our philosophy is like, we're gonna kind of minimize it in the house, right? It's not to say that we don't have stuff we do, but it's kind of few and far between. And, but things that we do have, I'm a lot less likely personally to feel obligated to, to, to snack on the same with my wife, although we do, you know, here and there, and then we'll go out and we'll get frozen yogurt or ice cream or, you know, kinda make it more of a, a treat for everyone.
Ben (43m 27s):
So that's kind of the way that I approach it versus having nothing in the house and we wanna help them. One of, we just, we want them to be able to make decisions that are best for them. So our kids know how to read labels. We have honest and candid conversations around how calories add up, how much sugar is in something, whether that's a good decision or not. And you know, to the degree that whatever they, they, they have ownership over the process.
Brian (43m 58s):
Yeah, that makes sense. And I think just from an individual standpoint, as far as just like splurging, like I'll, I'll have things, but like I think nowadays you can find like a healthier version of everything, if you know what I'm saying. Like, okay, you like peanut butter and chocolate. Well, you can find a healthier version of that peanut butter chocolate and it probably will taste close to the near original, maybe not. Exactly. So I think there are a lot of options out there that if you do wanna splurge on something, whatever it is that you can find maybe like a little bit of a healthier option for that.
Ben (44m 31s):
Yeah, that's a really good point. I, and I think there's definitely a balance there. It's like, dude, sometimes I just want like, you know, like,
Brian (44m 39s):
Do you ever read like a Snickers?
Ben (44m 40s):
I just want like some good ice cream or something,
Brian (44m 42s):
You know, I'm not a Snickers guy,
Ben (44m 44s):
I'm not a Snickers, I'm not like a candy Yeah. Per se guy, but like good dark chocolate, like, and it's like, I'm not gonna do a substitute dark chocolate or like a sugar free dark chocolate. It's like, dude, yeah, yeah, I just want a good piece of dark chocolate. I like good ice cream, you know, whatever. But
Brian (44m 59s):
Homemade, I always, I Yeah, go ahead.
Ben (45m 3s):
But, but one thing is though, also, like if I'm dieting or I have clients that are dieting, but they really like ice cream, like, well, we could do the Ninja Creamy, right? And you know, I don't know if you've played around with that at all, but it's like you can basically do a protein shake, turn it into an ice cream, right? And they get, you know, that, that feel, that consistency, that texture, that satis satisfaction that comes from feeling like you're eating ice cream, but it's ul ultimately, you know, good for you in that it's, you know, contributing to their protein intake for the day. And Sure. It's sort of that psychological reprieve that oftentimes we need when calories are low.
Brian (45m 42s):
Yeah, yeah. No, that's, that's a good point. I mean, I always look, I, my wife will make homemade cookies sometimes if you have guests over and they're like, unbelievable. But like I was thinking, if you know what's going in things, you're a lot better off as opposed to, you know, you even, like, you go to Whole Foods, they have that pre-made stuff. Well look at the ingredients and there's like 80 ingredients on there and you can't pronounce half of them. Yeah. Probably should maybe try to avoid those things,
Ben (46m 9s):
I think in general. Yeah. Yeah. It's sort of like that. Agreed. Yeah, agreed. And, and listen, there's certain things that, you know, I I, you gotta figure out like what your, what one of the things we talk about is like the worth itness the quote unquote worth itness of something, and everyone's different, right? Some people like the salty sweet, some people like the, you know, kind of umami and, or, or, or the crunchy, you know, salty type type, that's
Brian (46m 39s):
My wife.
Ben (46m 40s):
Yeah. Right, right. And so you gotta figure out like what is worth it for you. And so for me, it's like a really good chocolate chip cookie, right? Is, is awesome, but you like, have a tray of oatmeal cookies or oatmeal raisin cookies. I'm like, ah, I don't need to even entertain myself with that. Right. A good piece of cheesecake for me. Okay. Like I, I could definitely make room for that versus pumpkin pie. Like, no thanks for me, just not worth it. And, and so that's from a, like a psychology and from a, a dieting standpoint, if instead of people, you know, sometimes when we're dieting, like any opportunity to eat something like that, and they're like, well, I don't know when I'm gonna be able to have this again, so I'm just going to eat the whole thing, whether it's quote unquote worth it or not, versus sort of saving that energy and the decision fatigue that comes from it for the things that, and planning for the things that really are worth it.
Ben (47m 46s):
And then also understanding it's like, oh, by the way, like you don't have to eat the whole thing just because like where's the tipping point, right? If we have this sort of bell curve of like, okay, first bite, second bite, third bite is like, you know, continues to get better and better, but at what point does it stop getting better and at what point do you start to lose the satisfaction and enjoyment of the treat? If we slowed down and we actually observed how we're feeling over certain foods, I think we would find that we probably could stop eating it sooner, right?
Ben (48m 29s):
Which would also give us the opportunity to save for calories. We would have the satisfaction of knowing, okay, it's don't, and don't get me wrong, this is challenging and it takes practice, but it's also a fundamental skill and habit that's part of long-term weight loss control or weight maintenance, right? When we know I can eat three bites of a good piece of cheesecake and I'm good, like that's all that I need. Yeah.
Brian (48m 58s):
You, you remind me. I mean like eating intentionally, and I had, I guessed Don, I forgot actually who was, but he mentioned that he has a lot of his clients I think eating with chopsticks, it'll slow them down. That's interesting. That's very interesting. Yeah, it'll slow them down. It's like, you know, you have dogs and we have slow feeders for our dogs, right? Yeah. So they don't eat so fast. Yeah. So just we need to the, the, the adult version of slow feeders, but eating with chopsticks is one way of slowing down. Well,
Ben (49m 29s):
For real though. You know, for real. And we, it's easy to, and no, and it's true though. It is, it's really easy to say all this stuff and then at the end of the day, you know, we just inhale our food and we don't do justice to the digestive process of like, bear in mind digestion starts in the, in, in the brain and with our salivary enzymes and just thinking about food and then, you know, chewing the food and masticating and actually breaking it down so that we can actually absorb and assimilate the nutrients, right? And the appreciation that comes from it versus mindlessly inhaling it and going on with our day and then tracking the calories. It's like this is very much, calories are not just calories under these circumstances.
Brian (50m 15s):
Yeah. Yeah. This is great. Ben. When I always ask this question to my guests, what, what one tip would you give someone if they just were starting out, maybe they wanted to get back to where they were 10, 15 years ago. What one tip would you give them?
Ben (50m 31s):
I would suggest taking every effort to assess your existing behaviors and actually try and be objective about those. Just like we talked about sort of the expense sheet, right? Of actually sitting down and taking ownership over your intake, actually tracking, you know, what your intake looks like for a week or two, right? Of tracking how many steps you're accumulating. Most of us have, you know, well we certainly have iPhones, we have Apple watches, we have Fitbits, we have Ora rings, we have whoop straps, we have Garmin watches, you know, so, and, and even if you don't, you can get a $10 pedometer on Amazon that will be here this afternoon.
Ben (51m 26s):
You know, if you have Amazon Prime, the point they're in is if we can be brutally honest and objective about where we are, so our daily weight, our movement, how many steps we're accumulating, our calorie intake, our hours of sleep, maybe how much hydra, you know, our hydration and maybe even would be like auditing our calendar, you know, because I expressed the importance of, of actually prioritizing our time. By virtue of doing that for a couple weeks, you'll have extreme clarity as to how those behaviors are adding up. You'll see I'm not moving nearly enough.
Ben (52m 7s):
Maybe I'm not sleeping nearly enough. Maybe my calorie intake looks great, you know, Monday through Thursday and on the weekends it's atrocious. Maybe, you know, I'm not eating enough calories and maybe I'm over consuming alcohol, yada, yada. But until you've done that, I just don't think that you have the awareness or the information to make informed decisions. And the best thing that we can do is be able to leverage data to make informed decisions that are right for you and your lifestyle.
Brian (52m 50s):
Love that. Yeah. Yeah. If you don't track, how do you know, you know, what adjustments to make. And I think right off the bat that's important. So. Well, this is great, Ben. Where's the best place for people to find you?
Ben (53m 3s):
Yeah, so I'm sure you'll have our, our website body systems.com in the show notes, fairly active on Instagram, reluctantly, but fairly active on Instagram the same way. Yeah. At Body Systems coaching. And of course people can check out our podcast. It's called the Smart Nutrition Made Simple Show on all podcast platforms. And then if it's okay with you, Brian, sure, I'd be happy to include a link. We have a, a a 30 day fat loss reset that I built for individuals just kind of looking for a realistic way to do just that. To sort of reset things to, I I alluded to creating structure and awareness.
Ben (53m 48s):
Well, it will actually give you the tracking tools and, and it's, it's without even tracking your calories, But it will give you some structure and strategy to actually leveraging 30 days to really make a 180 in a realistic way. And so I'd be happy to include that 30 day fat loss reset guide for your listeners. I'll, I'll send you over the link and, and
Brian (54m 11s):
We can talk in there. Yeah, we can, yeah, we'll drop that in the show notes. I appreciate that. All right, Ben. Well this is a great conversation. Enjoyed it and body systems.com and yeah, thanks so much for coming on.
Ben (54m 24s):
Well thanks so much for having me, Brian. I appreciate everyone taking time outta their day to listen. Hopefully it's been valuable.
Brian (54m 30s):
Sure has been. All right. Have a great day. Thanks for listening to the show. I know there's thousands of podcasts out there and you chose to listen to mine. I will put a link in the show notes if you want to connect with my guests. And if you are looking for one-on-one consulting with me, I will put a free 15 minute link so you can set up a call to see if you're fit for my six month health breakthrough program. So thanks again, feel free to rate and subscribe. I would love that to help support the podcast. And till next time, have a great rest of the day and I will see you on my next podcast. Thanks so much.
